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2Timothy2:15

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Genesis 14:18-20 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.
19And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:
20And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.
Hebrews 7:4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.
James 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Hebrews 7:1-28
1This Melchizedek was king of Salem and priest of God Most High. He met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him, 2and Abraham apportioned to him a tenth of everything. First, his name means “king of righteousness.” Then also, “king of Salem” means “king of peace.” 3Without father or mother or genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, like the Son of God, he remains a priest for all time.

4Consider how great Melchizedek was: Even the patriarch Abraham gave him a tenth of the spoils. 5Now the Law commands the sons of Levi who become priests to collect a tenth from the people (that is, their brothers), even though they are descended from Abraham. 6But Melchizedek, who did not trace his descent from Levi, collected a tenth from Abraham and blessed him who had the promises. 7And indisputably, the lesser is blessed by the greater.

8In the case of the Levites, mortal men collect the tenth; but in the case of Melchizedek, it is affirmed that he lives on. 9And so to speak, Levi, who collects the tenth, paid the tenth through Abraham. 10For when Melchizedek met Abraham, Levi was still in the loin of his ancestor.

A Superior Priesthood

11Now if perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood (upon which basis the people received the Law), why was there still a need for another priest to appear—one in the order of Melchizedek and not in the order of Aaron? 12For when the priesthood is changed, the Law must be changed as well.

13He of whom these things are said belonged to a different tribe, from which no one has ever served at the altar. 14For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah, a tribe as to which Moses said nothing about priests.

15And this point is even more clear if another priest like Melchizedek appears, 16one who has become a priest not by a law of succession, but by the power of an indestructible life. 17For it is testified:

“You are a priest forever

in the order of Melchizedek.”a

18So the former commandment is set aside because it was weak and useless 19(for the Law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.

20And none of this happened without an oath. For others became priests without an oath, 21but Jesus became a priest with an oath by the One who said to Him:

“The Lord has sworn and will not change His mind,

‘You are a priest forever.’”b

22Because of this oath, Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant.

23Now there have been many other priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office. 24But because Jesus lives forever, He has a permanent priesthood. 25Therefore He is able to save completelyc those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to intercede for them.

26Such a high priest truly befits us—One who is holy, innocent, undefiled, set apart from sinners, and exalted above the heavens. 27Unlike the other high priests, He does not need to offer daily sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people; He sacrificed for sin once for all when He offered up Himself. 28For the Law appoints as high priests men who are weak; but the oath, which came after the Law, appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever.

So when we see Abraham's character and heart, we see he did so out of believing God, not bound by a law. Thus it was accounted as righteousness.
James 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Matthew 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Luke 18:9-14
9To some who trusted in their own righteousness and viewed others with contempt, He also told this parable: 10“Two men went up to the temple to pray. One was a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like the other men—swindlers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12I fast twice a week and pay tithes of all that I receive.’

13But the tax collector stood at a distance, unwilling even to lift up his eyes to heaven. Instead, he beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner!’ 14I tell you, this man, rather than the Pharisee, went home justified. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”

Matthew 6:21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

2 Corinthians 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
The question thus remains, does it really grieve you that much to give to the church? Do you really believe that money has any real power?

Let me give you a testimony to faith and the fallacy of money.
I moved into my house with my dad where we were led by God to reside. The purchase of the house put us strapped for finances and were struggling. Among the first things to happen was the a/c went out and we were looking at a hefty situation that financially we could not afford. Having faith in God, God put a man in our path who fixed us up for under a hundred bucks.
Not long after, our sewer backed up due to heavy rains and were told our main line was busted and would need 9k worth of work and we could not afford it. Rather than succumb to the unsurmountable mountain that lay before us, having faith that God would move it, a guy came out and re-assessed the situation and fixed us up for under 400.
So you see....trust in God, not your money.
You miss the point of tithing.

Matthew 23:23
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Make sure to read that last verse there....Jesus did say tithes should be done. And lookie lookie...New Testament?!!!!???
Destroy that.

Jesus was talking to the Pharisees who were STILL under the law. Furthermore, they were the very ones living and abusing off the tithe and Jesus was well aware of their corruption. He was pointing out their hypocrisy not transferring the tithe to the New Covenant.

Here you can read Hebrews 7 explained.

One: Tithing is inseparable from “the commandment in the law” that provided for, appointed, and set apart the Levitical priesthood (7:5).

Two: Tithing is used in each of four evidences to prove that Christ’s priesthood is superior to that of the Mosaic Law (7:4-10).

Three: The Old Covenant methods of worshiping God through tithes, offerings, sacrifices and Levitical priests failed (7:11).

Four: Failure of the old system implied a need for a totally new system of service and worship (7:11).

Five: The change of priesthood must also bring in entirely new principles of service and worship (7:12).

Six: Since Christ came from Judah, it is evident that nothing in the law that related to the Levitical priesthood (including tithing) could be carried over to the new priesthood of Christ (7:13-14).

Seven: Psalm 110 patterned the new priesthood after a non-Jewish Melchizedek. This fact makes it far more evident that nothing in the law regarding the Levitical priesthood (including tithing) should be carried over to the priesthood of Christ (7:15).

Eight: Therefore one must conclude that Christ’s Melchizedek priesthood is not governed by any set of laws given to men. His priesthood is governed by the power of Eternal God (7:16-17).

Nine: The old commandment which financed, established and described the Levitical priesthood’s duties has been set aside. It was inherently weak and unprofitable (7:18).

Ten: Man can become spiritually perfect only through applying the principles of the better hope (7:19).

Eleven: Since the Levitical priesthood has been replaced by the high priesthood of Christ and the priesthood of all believers, this means that all believers, as priests who do not require tithes, can draw near to God in worship (7:19).

Twelve: The success of Christ’s priesthood and his church is as sure as God’s oath to him (7:20-27).

Hebrews 7
 
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Hank77

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Genesis 14:18-20 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.
19And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:
20And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.
Hebrews 7:4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.
James 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Hebrews 7:1-28
1This Melchizedek was king of Salem and priest of God Most High. He met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him, 2and Abraham apportioned to him a tenth of everything. First, his name means “king of righteousness.” Then also, “king of Salem” means “king of peace.” 3Without father or mother or genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, like the Son of God, he remains a priest for all time.

4Consider how great Melchizedek was: Even the patriarch Abraham gave him a tenth of the spoils. 5Now the Law commands the sons of Levi who become priests to collect a tenth from the people (that is, their brothers), even though they are descended from Abraham. 6But Melchizedek, who did not trace his descent from Levi, collected a tenth from Abraham and blessed him who had the promises. 7And indisputably, the lesser is blessed by the greater.

8In the case of the Levites, mortal men collect the tenth; but in the case of Melchizedek, it is affirmed that he lives on. 9And so to speak, Levi, who collects the tenth, paid the tenth through Abraham. 10For when Melchizedek met Abraham, Levi was still in the loin of his ancestor.

A Superior Priesthood

11Now if perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood (upon which basis the people received the Law), why was there still a need for another priest to appear—one in the order of Melchizedek and not in the order of Aaron? 12For when the priesthood is changed, the Law must be changed as well.

13He of whom these things are said belonged to a different tribe, from which no one has ever served at the altar. 14For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah, a tribe as to which Moses said nothing about priests.

15And this point is even more clear if another priest like Melchizedek appears, 16one who has become a priest not by a law of succession, but by the power of an indestructible life. 17For it is testified:

“You are a priest forever

in the order of Melchizedek.”a

18So the former commandment is set aside because it was weak and useless 19(for the Law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.

20And none of this happened without an oath. For others became priests without an oath, 21but Jesus became a priest with an oath by the One who said to Him:

“The Lord has sworn and will not change His mind,

‘You are a priest forever.’”b

22Because of this oath, Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant.

23Now there have been many other priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office. 24But because Jesus lives forever, He has a permanent priesthood. 25Therefore He is able to save completelyc those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to intercede for them.

26Such a high priest truly befits us—One who is holy, innocent, undefiled, set apart from sinners, and exalted above the heavens. 27Unlike the other high priests, He does not need to offer daily sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people; He sacrificed for sin once for all when He offered up Himself. 28For the Law appoints as high priests men who are weak; but the oath, which came after the Law, appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever.

So when we see Abraham's character and heart, we see he did so out of believing God, not bound by a law. Thus it was accounted as righteousness.
James 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Matthew 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Luke 18:9-14
9To some who trusted in their own righteousness and viewed others with contempt, He also told this parable: 10“Two men went up to the temple to pray. One was a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like the other men—swindlers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12I fast twice a week and pay tithes of all that I receive.’

13But the tax collector stood at a distance, unwilling even to lift up his eyes to heaven. Instead, he beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner!’ 14I tell you, this man, rather than the Pharisee, went home justified. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”

Matthew 6:21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

2 Corinthians 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
The question thus remains, does it really grieve you that much to give to the church? Do you really believe that money has any real power?

Let me give you a testimony to faith and the fallacy of money.
I moved into my house with my dad where we were led by God to reside. The purchase of the house put us strapped for finances and were struggling. Among the first things to happen was the a/c went out and we were looking at a hefty situation that financially we could not afford. Having faith in God, God put a man in our path who fixed us up for under a hundred bucks.
Not long after, our sewer backed up due to heavy rains and were told our main line was busted and would need 9k worth of work and we could not afford it. Rather than succumb to the unsurmountable mountain that lay before us, having faith that God would move it, a guy came out and re-assessed the situation and fixed us up for under 400.
So you see....trust in God, not your money.
You miss the point of tithing.

Matthew 23:23
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Make sure to read that last verse there....Jesus did say tithes should be done. And lookie lookie...New Testament?!!!!???
Destroy that.
Before the Cross, it was still OT Mosaic law and Jesus was talking to Pharisees living under the Law of Moses. When the temple was destroyed in 70 AD even the Jews could no longer bring tithes because God told them that the tithe had to be brought to Jerusalem and to the temple because the Spirit of God lived there. Remember the veil in the temple was torn asunder when Jesus died.

Jews today do not pay tithes, they give to support their synagogues, and they give to charities, very much the same as Christians are called to do.
 
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Kenny'sID

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We all know the buildings need maintenance and ministers need paid, because very very few know how to walk fully in Christ, if any

Do you know how to walk in Christ? Also, can you please tell us where most of us ere, and you have it right?

If your shy that's ok.

Do I really come off to you as shy? Truly funny. :)

Well lets see what he has to say rather than what you think eh. Even God gave us free will. Yay for God

He already said it, you just aren't paying attention. You don't want to hear that we get it because you want it left open for you to bless us with your higher knowledge. Yes, I think that's exactly where all this is headed.

Indeed I am insisting that many do not have a clue on many subjects in the bible.

What are we clueless on? And do you just happen to be able to set us straight? ;)

Threatening is that hw you think.

IDK, what do you call it when someone keeps saying they can/will do something but never really does it?

Oh my I am sorry if you feel a little intimidated by the way I write.

The, "There is something wrong with you" card, well... let's just say you dson't play it well at all...please.

I am so sorry there man. Nut the thing is.

?

I have a very strong message that I like to share with them that have an ear.

Pardon my impatience, all knowing Sensei, but share it already and stop the dramatics.

If you are threatened with they way I speak It might be that I am able through satan to push your buttons so very easily.

Oh, my.

Yep, there is definitely something wrong here, but stick around, we can fix that. Not saying it will be pleasant, or that you can even handle it, you may run off, but if that happens, at least the seed that brings the high and mighty ("I get most of it and you don't", type) down a few notches has already been planted, the rest is up to you.. :)
 
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MyGivenNameIsKeith

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Before the Cross, it was still OT Mosaic law and Jesus was talking to Pharisees living under the Law of Moses. When the temple was destroyed in 70 AD even the Jews could no longer bring tithes because God told them that the tithe had to be brought to Jerusalem and to the temple because the Spirit of God lived there. Remember the veil in the temple was torn asunder when Jesus died.

Jews today do not pay tithes, they give to support their synagogues, and they give to charities, very much the same as Christians are called to do.
Abraham wasn't under "Mosaic law" and yet he gave tithes not being forced but from a giving heart. I am not seeing how Mosaic law is relevant to anything I had said.
On the second portion of your comment
Judaism and Christianity are different in many ways. A person who is a "Jew" by Spirit would be the "true Christian" we see today. Thus the saying, there is neither Jew nor Gentile but all are one in Christ. By the letter, Judaism denies Christ Jesus, as also all other religions do except for one that being Christianity.
Anyhow, I showed it to you. If you have eyes to see, you would see. If you have ears to hear, you would hear.
Jesus stated this to John, It becometh us to fulfill all righteousness. Tithing under the belief that it would please God, wouldn't be wrong. Scriptures show that.
But I won't argue whether or not to put the yoke back on or not, that is not what I am saying at all. If you tithe, do it out of the generosity of your heart. Not compulsion, not as one forced. From experience I can testify that it does do a lot for one's heart. You rely on God more. And you realize it's his anyways.
Anyways, I have nothing further on it. I tithe and give offerings as well. It doesn't make me more of a Christian than anyone else, but it certainly helps to shape my heart and frees me from the power that money can have over someone's life.
 
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Kaon

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Many Christians believe that we are told to tithe. Will said believers come along and quote the scriptures that tell us that we are ment to tithe?
And we shall have a little debate or teaching call it what you like. There could be all manner of theologians in here. I don't know. But where ever appears I hope its the best you got.

As I will destroy tithing with scripture.

So lets have some fun and save some cash so we can give it to where scripture tells us to put it. Man Jesus I love you. Thank you for setting me free from the lies of tithing.

The tithe was specifically for the priests (who did not take a "salaried job,) but also given of God. This eliminates the problem of people will little or no means feeling obligated to give.

He had an answer for this issue thousands of years ago, as He knew what would become of the culture.

"And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD'S: it is holy unto the LORD." - Leviticus 27:30

"Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year." - Deuteronomy 14:22


The Tithe (Tenth) of the increase of the land was meant for the priests - God salaried them. And, the surplus was stored so that the community would have something in times of plenty or famine. This is unbelievable in a consumer culture, but the point of the tithe was a faith-action on behalf of the people, and a faith-hope on behalf of the priests to trust that God would provide for them.



The tithe is not about giving 10% of your income, securities, or land. And, the TITHE/TENTH is a specific portion of a God-given increase on the land and resources. Fiat capital is not a resource.
 
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Hank77

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Abraham wasn't under "Mosaic law" and yet he gave tithes not being forced but from a giving heart. I am not seeing how Mosaic law is relevant to anything I had said.
Scripture states only one time that Abraham gave a tenth and that was from the spoils of war. He allowed his men to keep their part of the spoils. Then he gave back all the rest to the enemy that he had conquered. Do you give back the rest of your money to your employer, etc.?
Judaism and Christianity are different in many ways. A person who is a "Jew" by Spirit would be the "true Christian" we see today. Thus the saying, there is neither Jew nor Gentile but all are one in Christ. By the letter, Judaism denies Christ Jesus, as also all other religions do except for one that being Christianity.
Nothing I said would relate to this. I only wrote about the tithe.
Anyhow, I showed it to you. If you have eyes to see, you would see. If you have ears to hear, you would hear.
You showed me what?
Jesus stated this to John, It becometh us to fulfill all righteousness. Tithing under the belief that it would please God, wouldn't be wrong. Scriptures show that.
But I won't argue whether or not to put the yoke back on or not, that is not what I am saying at all. If you tithe, do it out of the generosity of your heart. Not compulsion, not as one forced. From experience I can testify that it does do a lot for one's heart. You rely on God more. And you realize it's his anyways.
Anyways, I have nothing further on it. I tithe and give offerings as well. It doesn't make me more of a Christian than anyone else, but it certainly helps to shape my heart and frees me from the power that money can have over someone's life.
I don't disagree with any of this. You should do what the LORD puts on your heart, that is not ever in question.
 
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JacksBratt

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Many Christians believe that we are told to tithe. Will said believers come along and quote the scriptures that tell us that we are ment to tithe?
And we shall have a little debate or teaching call it what you like. There could be all manner of theologians in here. I don't know. But where ever appears I hope its the best you got.

As I will destroy tithing with scripture.

So lets have some fun and save some cash so we can give it to where scripture tells us to put it. Man Jesus I love you. Thank you for setting me free from the lies of tithing.
So, since you started this thread at 6:00 PM and were in dialogue till 4:00AM... I don't expect that you are around for a few hours yet....

Anyway... I would just like to ask...

Do you contribute to the institution at which you worship?

If not, do you attend church, listen to the message, sing along with the worship team, enjoy the piano or organ or other instrumental music... feel cool in the summer heat and warm in the winter chills?

Do you consider yourself associated with the church and, as such, take credit for the support that they give to the needy, less fortunate and any missionary teams under their funding dollars?

If you do not contribute to these things... how do you feel justified to take part in the benefits of it?

How do you expect the pastor to live and raise a family? Should they have another full time job?
Where does the funding for the building, heating, A/C, telephone, computer, internet, support staff, food and coffee, youth pastors, nursery supplies, kitchen supplies and all the other endless items in the budget of any church, come from?

No, I'm not saying that everyone should give 10%, 15% or any set number... or, even be told to give...

But, as a church goer myself... I picked 10% for my so called tithe and that goes to the church directly.... and anything over and above, I consider gifts and they can go to charity outside of the church and other non religious charity.

I believe that the two commandments that Christ gave us.. Love the Lord your God with all your heart soul and mind, combined with love your neighbor as yourself..... cannot be fully followed if you do not give.

In times when I have detoured from doing this, for whatever reason, I have found much more month left at the end of the money... yes, you read that right.

In short... I cannot afford not to give.

So, if you have talked yourself out of tithing.... good for you. Go and live your life with a clear conscience.

I, myself, will give, tithe, gift.... whatever you want to call it.
 
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Johnsloan

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So, since you started this thread at 6:00 PM and were in dialogue till 4:00AM... I don't expect that you are around for a few hours yet....

Anyway... I would just like to ask...

Do you contribute to the institution at which you worship?

If not, do you attend church, listen to the message, sing along with the worship team, enjoy the piano or organ or other instrumental music... feel cool in the summer heat and warm in the winter chills?

Do you consider yourself associated with the church and, as such, take credit for the support that they give to the needy, less fortunate and any missionary teams under their funding dollars?

If you do not contribute to these things... how do you feel justified to take part in the benefits of it?

How do you expect the pastor to live and raise a family? Should they have another full time job?
Where does the funding for the building, heating, A/C, telephone, computer, internet, support staff, food and coffee, youth pastors, nursery supplies, kitchen supplies and all the other endless items in the budget of any church, come from?

No, I'm not saying that everyone should give 10%, 15% or any set number... or, even be told to give...

But, as a church goer myself... I picked 10% for my so called tithe and that goes to the church directly.... and anything over and above, I consider gifts and they can go to charity outside of the church and other non religious charity.

I believe that the two commandments that Christ gave us.. Love the Lord your God with all your heart soul and mind, combined with love your neighbor as yourself..... cannot be fully followed if you do not give.

In times when I have detoured from doing this, for whatever reason, I have found much more month left at the end of the money... yes, you read that right.

In short... I cannot afford not to give.

So, if you have talked yourself out of tithing.... good for you. Go and live your life with a clear conscience.

I, myself, will give, tithe, gift.... whatever you want to call it.

Well for your clarification. I realise you never read all the posts. As I said clearly I do give.

Yes I contribute to the church up keep. I do not tithe to the church.
We are free to give as much or as little as we like. Is called freedom. I am not tithing because it is unscriptural for the born again new creation.

Lets just pick the catholic church since they started it. They are loaded and keep all manner of wealth.
And that is wrong. and totally sinful.

There are many other churches who do the same . They are lying if they say you must tithe.
 
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JacksBratt

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Tithing was for the OT'ers, and is now optional for Christians today. If God calls you to give x% of your income to the church, that's how God works in you.
I understand this. However, does this mean that you give but you don't give 10% so you don't call it tithing? Or that you just give when you feel like it or that you don't give at all, or you give but don't like being told to give?

I'm really not catching what the deal is here. The OP is right ready and ripping to "destroy Tithing with Scripture". All gung hoe and full of spit and vinegar ready to fight... whoever he is trying to convince of some atrocity....

To me... just saying... to me... it looks like a lot of people out there who are trying to convince their conscience that they don't have to give to the offering plate and it is "all mine"... so to speak.

Well, to them... so be it. God doesn't want your gifts if they are not given cheerfully...

Others here have made it clear that there is no 10% number given to those in the age of grace... where we are now. However, we are told to give as we are able and those who give more will be blessed more... so to speak...

It reminds me of:
Luke 12:48 King James Version (KJV)

48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

So, what is the deal? Nobody should be giving if they cannot. Nobody should be giving if they don't want to.


However, IMO, if you are blessed with a surplus of wealth... and you do not give and support those that are struggling, despite their efforts to gain some ground.... I would be taking a good hard look at my heart.

Is it a salvation issue.. no.. but are you living in a way that magnifies Christ? Hmm I'm not sure about that.

Then, as I said in my first post... how does a church function, today, without it's regular offerings from it's parishioners? How can you "Love the Lord your God with all your heart soul and mind... and Love your neighbor as yourself" If you don't contribute to the institution that you attend for your worship of the God that gave you this commandment? Or, give financially to those that need it?
 
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Johnsloan

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Tithing was for the OT'ers, and is now optional for Christians today. If God calls you to give x% of your income to the church, that's how God works in you.
No its not quite that cut and dry. You have freedom to keep all your money. But we are clearly taught to give. We are NOT taught to give to the church of today. Not in scripture anywhere.
We are not taught to give ten% any where. You are told to give offerings and gifts. You are told to give to the needy . But the church says give it to us and we will give to the needy. I don't know how many churches even tithe them selves. But they want you to. And I see so many in here already saying OH I don't tithe I just give 10% as a good round number lol. Where are you told to give 10% You aint told that at all.
 
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Johnsloan

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LOL there you go again. You assume you know what Bible version I do or don't read.
Do you think Ananias just killed himself? It's a big deal to lie to the Holy Spirit, no matter who it was that struck them down. imv, Peter makes it clear that they didn't die because of lying about money but because of who they lied to.

You make to many assumptions and accusations claiming you know what individual people believe about tithing.
Are pastors allowed to become rich and wealthy ?
https://www.christianforums.com/threads/should-christians-pay-tithe.8039772/page-2#post-72111801

And the RCC, does not teach tithing, at least they didn't 40 yrs. ago.
Nah nate I think you will find I never assumed anything. You pointed the figer at God. I never blamed anyone. You are the one assuming God did it with nothing to back that up. You used a poor version . which makes out it was God.
No one is debating what they did or didn't do. You claimed God killed both. with out scripture thats assumption.

I think you need to read my posts a little more carefully.
 
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Johnsloan

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We are called to tithe in the old testament, there is no passage in the new to tithe, however we are to also fallow the law of the old testment, however tithing is more than money, in truth it's time, possessions too, in the ot the Israelites used to end up giving a third of what they had, food for thought. If you are poor and have no money or barely enough to get buy sacerfice and tithe your time and possessions more to balance the scales. Balance is key, Amen. Love you all!
Paul warns you about following the law. Please don't tell people here that they should follow any of the law. The law brings death. The new covenant bring life.

Stay away from the law. It will condemn you if you go under it.
 
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Johnsloan

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John,

This comment is not original with me. A brother in Christ told it to me a few years ago: "Tithing is biblical, but it is not Christian". In other words, tithing was an OT requirement for the Israelites but not for Christians under the New Covenant.

What is the NT principle of giving?

6 Here is something to remember. The one who plants only a little will gather only a little. And the one who plants a lot will gather a lot. 7 Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give. You shouldn’t give if you don’t want to. You shouldn’t give because you are forced to. God loves a cheerful giver(2 Cor 9:6-7 NIRV).​

There you have it:
  • Plant a lot;
  • Give according to what you have decided inside yourself;
  • Don't give begrudgingly;
  • No forced giving/tithing;
  • Be a cheerful giver.
I'm not convinced that all giving has to be monetary. See James 2.

Oz
Maybe you never noticed I never said we are not to give. I said the churches are lying to you when they teach you to tithe. I never said any where I dont give. I never said I don't support the church.
Clearly all giving is not money. All giving is dying to self and getting out of bed for God. Living for God daily and doing every thing He commanded us to do. Nothing less. Pick up your cross and follow me. He said. That literally means die now to self and life like Him for Him which means serve every one else.
 
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I understand this. However, does this mean that you give but you don't give 10% so you don't call it tithing? Or that you just give when you feel like it or that you don't give at all, or you give but don't like being told to give?

I'm really not catching what the deal is here. The OP is right ready and ripping to "destroy Tithing with Scripture". All gung hoe and full of spit and vinegar ready to fight... whoever he is trying to convince of some atrocity....

To me... just saying... to me... it looks like a lot of people out there who are trying to convince their conscience that they don't have to give to the offering plate and it is "all mine"... so to speak.

Well, to them... so be it. God doesn't want your gifts if they are not given cheerfully...

Others here have made it clear that there is no 10% number given to those in the age of grace... where we are now. However, we are told to give as we are able and those who give more will be blessed more... so to speak...

It reminds me of:
Luke 12:48 King James Version (KJV)

48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

So, what is the deal? Nobody should be giving if they cannot. Nobody should be giving if they don't want to.


However, IMO, if you are blessed with a surplus of wealth... and you do not give and support those that are struggling, despite their efforts to gain some ground.... I would be taking a good hard look at my heart.

Is it a salvation issue.. no.. but are you living in a way that magnifies Christ? Hmm I'm not sure about that.

Then, as I said in my first post... how does a church function, today, without it's regular offerings from it's parishioners? How can you "Love the Lord your God with all your heart soul and mind... and Love your neighbor as yourself" If you don't contribute to the institution that you attend for your worship of the God that gave you this commandment? Or, give financially to those that need it?

I might ruffle a few feathers.

I believe Johnsloan is a troll. As many people say, do not feed the troll.
 
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Johnsloan

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What makes it a sin ? What is sin according to scriptiral meaning?
well its taking an old cov agreement and trying to make it fit the new cov agreement.
That's what banker thieves and liars do. Its called stealing. Or at the very least wrongly teaching Gods word. Not evey one who teaches tithing knows it not right.
 
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JacksBratt

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Well for your clarification. I realise you never read all the posts. As I said clearly I do give.

Yes I contribute to the church up keep. I do not tithe to the church.
We are free to give as much or as little as we like. Is called freedom. I am not tithing because it is unscriptural for the born again new creation.

Lets just pick the catholic church since they started it. They are loaded and keep all manner of wealth.
And that is wrong. and totally sinful.

There are many other churches who do the same . They are lying if they say you must tithe.
You're right, I did not read all the posts. But, now I see that you do tithe.. you just don't like to call it that.

I call my giving my "Tithes and offering". What do you call yours?

I do my giving freely just like you do. I do it because God has made all things in my life possible. I do it because it is the least I can do, while on this earth. It's simple, it's anonymous, it's personal and it is highly beneficial to the church, the congregation and others who are less fortunate, and in a indirect way.. myself and my family.

I get it... your trying to end the tyranny of people being told that they must give 10% because it "says so in the Bible"...

It just comes across as a bit to much Indy car when you really need a bicycle.
 
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Johnsloan

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You're right, I did not read all the posts. But, now I see that you do tithe.. you just don't like to call it that.

I call my giving my "Tithes and offering". What do you call yours?

I do my giving freely just like you do. I do it because God has made all things in my life possible. I do it because it is the least I can do, while on this earth. It's simple, it's anonymous, it's personal and it is highly beneficial to the church, the congregation and others who are less fortunate, and in a indirect way.. myself and my family.

I get it... your trying to end the tyranny of people being told that they must give 10% because it "says so in the Bible"...

It just comes across as a bit to much Indy car when you really need a bicycle.

No I do not tithe. why would you say that after I already told you I do not tithe?
I call it what the new cov calls it. So you half right.
Its called gifts and offering.
I don't give it because it beneficial. I do it because I love to.

And its not in the bible. See that they kind of language that makes people think they are supposed to tithe.
 
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