SALVATION offered by Jesus: COMPLETED and IRREVOCABLE

Grip Docility said:

Pure by who?

Your flesh or HIS?

Who’s work... yours or HIS?

Are you carnally free of Law transgression?

Body, Mind, Heart and Soul?

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That's a stupid question. The obvious answer is HIS.

justbyfaith said:

If that were true, Jesus wouldn't have died; for He was indeed perfect and yet still died. We all have physical bodies that can be damaged or worn out, sin or no sin.

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Utter nonsense. Jesus Christ gave up His Spirit. He CHOSE to die.....for US.

justbyfaith said:

That's a stupid question.

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That is a legitimate question. Because your posts sure lead to the conclusion that you are relying on your flesh. Maybe be a little more straight forward or clear?

Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God...maybe we wouldn't die if we ate of the tree of life, but not by being sinless...Jesus was sinless and still died...yes He gave His life for us... He still didn't not die.

Gr8Grace said:

That is a legitimate question. Because your posts sure lead to the conclusion that you are relying on your flesh. Maybe be a little more straight forward or clear?

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I take that as an insult..no one could ever live out the holiness of God in the power of the flesh...you must think of me as being really stupid! If you read my doctrinal statement you would see where I'm coming from, that I'm not relying on myself for victory. If I were, I wouldn't HAVE victory!

justbyfaith said:

Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God...maybe we wouldn't die if we ate of the tree of life, but not by being sinless...Jesus was sinless and still died...yes He gave His life for us... He still didn't not die.

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Calvary chapel? Chuck Smith Calvary Chapel? This is not the stuff Chuck taught.

justbyfaith said:

I take that as an insult..no one could ever live out the holiness of God in the power of the flesh...you must think of me as being really stupid! If you read my doctrinal statement you would see where I'm coming from, that I'm not relying on myself for victory. If I were, I wouldn't HAVE victory!

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I don't mean to insult you. And in reality, I think of you as much smarter than me. Because the simplicity of the gospel seems to make intellectuals stumble. To the point that stoopid people like me say WHAAAAAAAAAAT?

Your theology and what you seem to be espousing insults the work and virtue of the Lord Jesus Christ. If you can't be clear and need to refer to a long winded dossier to explain the simple Gospel.....something doesn't smell right.

Galatians 1:11-12, we don't rely on man's teaching but on the Holy Spirit. The tree of life would be given to the overcomers in the church of Ephesus...Revelation 2:7. But I would say probably not until after they get to heaven....it falls in the realm of bible trivia anyway, and has no bearing on major doctrines (or even minor ones for that matter). I wasn't taught specifically by Pastor Chuck to the fullest extent...I stopped going to the Bible College having finished less than half of the Chuck tapes, which were teachings on the Old Testament...never got into his NT tapes...but I currently attend a Calvary Chapel and am still learning; not only from teachers but through personal reading.

Gr8Grace said:

I don't mean to insult you. And in reality, I think of you as much smarter than me. Because the simplicity of the gospel seems to make intellectuals stumble. To the point that stoopid people like me say WHAAAAAAAAAAT?

Your theology and what you seem to be espousing insults the work and virtue of the Lord Jesus Christ. If you can't be clear and need to refer to a long winded dossier to explain the simple Gospel.....something doesn't smell right.

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The doctrinal statement that I typed out is what I came up with after many years of reading my Bible. It is the sum of what I learned over many years and an expression of what I believe in. It is highly based in scripture. I hope you'll read it...but my battery is getting low now so I'm going to call it a night.

Gr8Grace said:

I don't mean to insult you. And in reality, I think of you as much smarter than me. Because the simplicity of the gospel seems to make intellectuals stumble. To the point that stoopid people like me say WHAAAAAAAAAAT?

Your theology and what you seem to be espousing insults the work and virtue of the Lord Jesus Christ. If you can't be clear and need to refer to a long winded dossier to explain the simple Gospel.....something doesn't smell right.

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You nailed it! I’m disengaging, because you articulated what I kept sensing. That is the heart of the matter.

Also... I understand the theological points @justbyfaith was making about the garden and Jesus... but... I think they’re weighing them down.

The whole point of the Tree of life Point is to show that God made us with potential that gurenteed our neutrality...

Unfortunately... it dovetails into people arguing sinlessness in the flesh (through themselves or the Spirit) in the here and now... and that is a mega theological error that keeps tripping your radar and mine!

There is a reason Paul calls these old tents bodies of death and I’m never certain why people get that cart before the horse of our Ressurection bodies... but... it happens all the time and the collateral damage is a tainted message that claims to not be work dependent... but is work dependent! Also... grace becomes observed as a result of carnal performance... (through the Spirit)...

Only the Holy Spirit can convict that house built on (Sand-Stone)...

And in that... prayer is my final measure for all that don’t see what they say...

All blessings to you... Sibling in Him.... Who TOTALLY DEPENDS on HIM. <3

Marvin Knox said:

No - "metanoia" comes about precisely because we are a new creation. It is not the vehicle for the new creations creation by grace.

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Ok but if we don’t change our lives are we a new creation?

Marvin Knox said:

Please tell me why it's so hard for you to understand the vicarious, substitutionary, atonement of Jesus Christ on our behalf and why it's so hard to understand that it is God working in believers for His glory and that He intercedes for His children in this life as part of that work.

Please tell me what's so hard to understand about our lives being hidden in Christ and it's not we who lives but Christ who lives in us.

Why can't you understand the concept that we died in Christ and that what God will see at judgment is a new creation in His Son - the bride of Christ, without spot or blemish?

You were baptized into Christ weren't you? Then again-perhaps not seeing that you have never received His work as your only hope of salvation but are depending on your good works to save you in the end.

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I completely understand that I was saved by grace through faith, which means I was born again.

Being born again, is how we have the right to become sons of God.

However, you seem to think because I was born again through faith in Jesus Christ, that it somehow makes all these words of scripture, that Jesus and Paul taught, somehow become untrue, or invalid, in which we should just ignore them, because they don’t really apply to us.


Tell what you don’t understand about these words of scripture.

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

• Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

Does the born again Christian who commits adultery with his brothers wife love his brother or hate His brother?

Does the born again Christian who steals from his brother, love his brother or hate his brother?


Eternal life is knowing Him. John 17:3


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4



What you don’t seem to understand is we have been given all things that pertain to eternal life and godliness, through the power of His Spirit, and the born again divine nature of God, within us, that we can live in dominion over sin and lust.


Those born again Christians who chose to practice the works of the flesh, will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Surely you understand what inherit the kingdom of God means, right Marvin?


16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

• just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Tell me you understand that born again Christians who lives according to the flesh, will die; eternal death.


Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:12-13

• if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

Read this and tell me it isn’t really true, Marvin?


Maybe your in a special class of Christian, where these words don’t apply to you, is that it.


The born again Christian has a choice, how to live their life here on earth.

1. According to the flesh.
2. According to the Spirit.

If you have been born again and filled with God's Spirit, then you have the ability to reign and rule in dominion over the sin that dwells in your flesh, as well as the devil who seeks to entice you into destructive plan of sin and defeat.

Living life according to the Spirit, is the way of victory and blessing, and peace, and the end, eternal life. (Romans 6:22)

Living life according to the dictates of the flesh, seeking to gratify it's lustful desires of sin, whereby we become enslaved again to sin and the devil, once we have been set free, is the way of defeat, depression, and bondage, and leads to death; eternal death.


12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.Romans 8:12-13







JLB

I said this:
"There's a lot that you've misunderstood in Jn 5:28-29. By ignoring v.24, which tells us clearly WHEN one possesses eternal life (point of faith in Christ), you push the idea of being good for salvation and being bad for condemnation. Which is nothing more than works salvation."

JLB777 said:

So your teaching us that Jesus taught works salvation?

You seem confused.

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What is quite clear is how confused you are. I directly described your ideas as works salvation. That's what your posts are teaching.

Jesus wants us to live by the power of His life and Spirit within us, not by the sinful desires of our flesh. [/QUOT]
Agreed.

Why is obeying the desires of His Spirit
“Works salvation”.[/QUTOE]
It isn't.

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justbyfaith said:

What you are doing is banking everything on a few verses of scripture, when there are other passages that would strip away your high-minded confidence (presumption) if you would only notice them or give them the time of day.

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OK, if that were true, then it should be very easy to actually point out how the verses I quote don't really say or mean what I believe they say and mean.

If there are ANY verses (other passages) that refute the verses I share, then the Bible is contradicted. Why don't you see that?

So, either the Bible IS contradicted, or one of us is misunderstanding our own verses.

I've ALWAYS taken time to explain how verses by your side don't say what is being claimed. Yet, who ever has shown me how my verses don't say or mean what I believe they do?

This post was directed to Gr8grace, but I couldn't resist:

justbyfaith said:

If that is true, then you know the explanation of Hebrews 3:12-15. Would you care to educate me as to what it is? I have never heard it, and I would LOVE to believe that I can sin all I want and still go to heaven.

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btw, you DO "sin all you want". Already. Every sin you commit is a choice, since no one is or can force anyone else to sin.

Sadly, by fearing loss of salvation through sin, you've trampled the words of Jesus in John 10:28a. If you've been given eternal life, Jesus SAID you shall never perish.

One either believes what He said or they don't believe what He said.

I'm ripe for the doctrine that Jude opposed in Jude 1:3-4!
What is high-minded is thinking you have been saved by Christ when He has not yet dealt with your sin at its very core.

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Wow. This really sheds light on your unbiblical views. Jesus Christ ALREADY dealt with our sin. All of them. On the cross.

This seems to be the very core of your own theological problems.

BNR32FAN said:

I still find it extremely hard to believe that someone can believe in Jesus and do anything they want and still be saved. They can go around beheading Christians and worshipping satan and they still go to heaven? Don’t get me wrong I also can’t find anything that specifically states we will lose salvation. It’s just really hard to grasp that concept.

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You're quite correct that there isn't anything in Scripture that states that salvation can be lost. It's an assumed issue, without any evidence from Scripture.

May I suggest that you're focused on the wrong actions. It's not about what Christians might do, but what Christ already did for us.

Because He paid the sin debt for all the sins of all of humanity, sin really isn't the issue in whether one enters heaven or the lake of fire.

The only issue regarding who will be cast into the lake of fire is whether one possesses eternal life. Rev 20:15 says those whose names are not in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire.

However, since we still have a sin nature, and must deal with sin experientially, it remains an issue for the Christian life. When we sin, we must confess it for cleansing (1 John 1:9) for restoration of fellowship with God and Christ. Then we must be filled with the Spirit/walk by means of the Spirit. Only in this condition will we not sin.

When we have sinned, we are out of fellowship, and are grieving/quenching the Spirit. In this condition, we will certainly sin.

justbyfaith said:

So, deal with the verses that teach it...Jude 1:24, 2 Peter 1:10, Titus 2:14, 1 John 3:5-9, Hebrews 10:10-18, esp. v. 14, 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24, Luke 11:34-36, Romans 6:6, Colossians 2:11, Romans 6:7, John 8:31-36, 2 Corinthians 5:17, Philippians 1:10 w/ James 3:2, Ephesians 2:1-9, Ephesians 4:24, Ephesians 5:27, 1 John 3:3, 1 John 3:7, 1 John 2:6, Ephesians 4:12-13, Matthew 5:48, 2 Corinthians 13:9-11, Hebrews 13:20-21, Hebrews 13:12, Hebrews 12:14, Hebrews 10:29, James 1:4, Jude 1:1, 1 John 2:10, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, 1 Peter 1:2, Acts of the Apostles 26:18, Acts of the Apostles 20:32, Galatians 5:24, 2 Timothy 3:17, Philippians 3:15, Colossians 3:14, Colossians 4:12, Colossians 1:28,

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According to this technique, I can claim the Bible clearly teaches eternal security by this:

Gen 1:1-Rev 22:21.

How is that technique not pretty much the same as yours?

Is our sin really dealt with if it still has control over our lives? Jesus died to SET US FREE. John 8:31-36. re #555

justbyfaith said:

1 Peter 5:10-12, 1 Corinthians 10:12-13, 1 Peter 1:5-7, James 1:12, James 1:2-4, 1 Thessalonians 3:5. And also, Acts of the Apostles 11:24.

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This kind of post is not helpful. Who knows how you understand any of these verses, or what they mean?

When posting verses, please provide some explanation for what they mean.

justbyfaith said:

Christ is the reason for my salvation from sin; and now I have new life in Him.

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But you still sin, do you not?

1 John 1:8 - If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.