SALVATION offered by Jesus: COMPLETED and IRREVOCABLE

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Grip Docility

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@Marvin Knox,

Take your mind off the idea of perfection and put your focus on whether you have an obedient heart from moment to moment...a born again heart is an obedient heart...see also Acts of the Apostles 5:32.

Romans 7 becomes an immediate issue to your claim and directly speaking... so does Galatians 3 and 4.

No way around them but to falsify their context, meaning and clearity...

I’m going to say no to that idea and admit I’m the man beating my chest and saying... Lord have mercy on me a sinner...
 
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Grip Docility

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Back on point please: Can a true believer lose his spiritual Position in Christ?

SALVATION offered by Jesus: COMPLETED and IRREVOCABLE...SEE POST #1
Nor height, nor depth... Nor ANYTHING brother... can seperate us from the Love we’ve found in Jesus Christ...

It is the very Love of Christ that constrains us and though we are imperfect... we are loved and counted perfect by the ONLY... GOOD and Perfect ONE... :)

Now... on the same note... carnal failure comes with immediate carnal price tags that are steep and unmerciful... and we all pay them daily...

Yet Grace molds us and strengthens us!

Though we be broken and tattered... He renews and fills us... moment to moment and daily...

His Love is the potters wheel and He is the Potter.

:)
 
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justbyfaith

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@Marvin Knox,

Take your mind off the idea of perfection and put your focus on whether you have an obedient heart from moment to moment...a born again heart is an obedient heart...Ezekiel 36:25-27...see also Acts of the Apostles 5:32.
Also, if someone has an obedient heart, there will be practical obedience (and not disobedience) in their lives.
 
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justbyfaith

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Romans 7 becomes an immediate issue to your claim and directly speaking... so does Galatians 3 and 4.

No way around them but to falsify their context, meaning and clearity...

I’m going to say no to that idea and admit I’m the man beating my chest and saying... Lord have mercy on me a sinner...
Care to elaborate? I don't see those passages as contradicting what I've said...also what I've said is based in scripture so scripture isn't going to contradict other scripture.
 
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justbyfaith

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Amen!!!

Behold what Manner of Love!
God's love is indeed a wonderful and awesome love...but it isn't sloppy agape or greasy grace...He is also just and is wrathful against willful, hardened, and rebellious sin.
 
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Marvin Knox

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@Marvin Knox,

Take your mind off the idea of perfection and put your focus on whether you have an obedient heart from moment to moment...a born again heart is an obedient heart...Ezekiel 36:25-27...see also Acts of the Apostles 5:32.
OK - done.

After all perfection was your thing not ours.

I find that I do have an obedient heart most of the time and some of the time I fall short.

There have been periods of time in my life in Christ when I fell really short and periods of time when I was really obedient.

What's your point?
 
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justbyfaith

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He loves us enough to FORGIVE our SINS, and not cast us aside.
And He continues to forgive even after we are born again...nevertheless, being born again means we have repented of sin...so we are no longer walking in the direction of sin.
 
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justbyfaith

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OK - done.

After all perfection was your thing not ours.

I find that I do have an obedient heart most of the time and some of the time I fall short.

There have been periods of time in my life in Christ when I fell really short and periods of time when I was really obedient.

What's your point?
Sin is deceitful and can lead you to depart from the living God because of an evil heart of unbelief...so we are to exhort one another daily. If we are not right with the Lord we know it...but if we continue on in that state we can deceive ourselves into thinking we are alright when we're really not. There comes a point where one might even cross over into not being saved...but if I am one to heed the warnings of scripture that might be basically impossible...if I avoid presumption and/or high-minded confidence.
 
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justbyfaith

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Also, if someone has an obedient heart, there will be practical obedience (and not disobedience) in their lives.
It's like, "Thanks, Captain Obvious..." but the statement deals with an underlying false doctrine.
 
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justbyfaith

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That I can be born again in my heart and also practically sin, yet I'm really not sinning because my new nature can't sin and therefore when I sin it isn't me sinning...I contend that if I commit sin in the practical sense, then I have sinned...I have committed sin...all of me has done wrong...sin within me has taken control and usurped the authority of my new nature! If I am born again unto an obedient heart therefore, it will result in practical obedience (not disobedience).
 
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Grip Docility

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God's love is indeed a wonderful and awesome love...but it isn't sloppy agape or greasy grace...He is also just and is wrathful against willful, hardened, and rebellious sin.

Sloppy Agape or Greasy Grace?!? You actually just wrote this?!?

You disgust me...

Those words undermine Core tenants of the Gospel and expose the issue...

Proverbs fills the rest of the picture in for me.

1 John is a good place for you to start... and Romans is a place for you to reread... but next time you read it... be honest with God and yourself...

The lies you tell yourself are the most damaging!!!
 
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JLB777

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Actually, @JLB777,

One passes from death into everlasting life at the moment that they receive a living and saving faith--John 5:24 (look it up in your kjv)

Don’t stop reading at verse 24.

All you OSAS folks keep ignoring the Day of Judgement, when we all will stand before His throne.


9 Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 11 Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are well known to God, and I also trust are well known in your consciences.
2 Corinthians 5:9-11


  • For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ


28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29


  • those who have done good, to the resurrection of life
  • those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation



Paul says it this way -


God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,
Romans 2:6-8


  • eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;


Jesus gave us what He will be looking for on that Day.


31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: Matthew 25:31-34


On that Day when you and I stand before Him, we will hear one of two things:


  • Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:


Or if you are a Christian that is fruitless, and does not love, you will hear this -


Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’ Matthew 25:41-43


  • Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels

for I was hungry and you gave Me no food;
I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink;
I was a stranger and you did not take Me in,
naked and you did not clothe Me,
sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’




JLB
 
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JLB777

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I said this:
"OK, let's take a look:
3 We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.
4 We write this to make our joy complete.
5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.
6 If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth.
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.

So, just count the times John wrote the red bolded word. 4 times. So, where is the word "salvation" in 1 John 1?"

The discussion is about 1 Peter 1:9 and that Peter teaches we will receive the salvation of our soul at the end of our faith.

The end result of our faith, as we persevere trial and persecution and temptation, and continue in the faith to the end, is the salvation of our soul.

In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 8 whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, 9 receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:6-9


  • receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls.

Those who reject Him, and depart from the faith, no longer have the substance of the hope of the Gospel, which is salvation.


12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,
Hebrews 3:12-14


  • lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God;


Again


21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.
Colossians 1:21-23


  • if indeed you continue in the faith,



JLB
 
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justbyfaith

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Hello @JLB777,

I know that I have said that my position is not OSNAS; but neither is it OSAS as it is normally presented. I believe in POTS--Perseverance of the Saints--or OHAH--Once Holy Always Holy. And I base this on a comparison between 1 John 2:17 and 1 John 3:6. Now the term for ever is used in 1 John 2:17. Therefore I contend that those of us who have truly received the holiness of God into our lives cannot lose it...we will abide in it for ever. Of course this promise might only be for those who would heed the warning of Hebrews 3:12-15...the fear of the Lord, not being highminded, is the deciding factor in the eternal security debate...one might be eternally secure as long as he fears losing his salvation...see Jeremiah 32:38-40 and Romans 11:20-22 with Philippians 1:6.

I also want to stipulate again that because I abide in Him I sin not--and this is not talking about only my new nature in Christ but the practice of my life...as if I could sin in the practical sense and NOT REALLY BE SINNING because my new nature didn't take part in it...this, again, is too close to the belief of the gnostics whom John was combatting in his epistles.
 
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justbyfaith

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Sloppy Agape or Greasy Grace?!? You actually just wrote this?!?

You disgust me...

Those words undermine Core tenants of the Gospel and expose the issue...

Proverbs fills the rest of the picture in for me.

1 John is a good place for you to start... and Romans is a place for you to reread... but next time you read it... be honest with God and yourself...

The lies you tell yourself are the most damaging!!!
It is interesting to me that this should disgust you...because Jude in his epistle (in Jude 1:3-4) combats the idea of sloppy agape and greasy grace. I want you to know that I am not saying that ALL grace is greasy, or that ALL agape is sloppy...but it should be clear from scripture that we ought not to turn the grace of our God into lasciviousness (KJV) or a license to sin (NIV).
 
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JLB777

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I also want to stipulate again that because I abide in Him I sin not--and this is not talking about only my new nature in Christ but the practice of my life...as if I could sin in the practical sense and NOT REALLY BE SINNING because my new nature didn't take part in it...this, again, is too close to the belief of the gnostics whom John was combatting in is epistles.


Awesome brother.

Well said.

You are on the right path.


God bless you and keep you as you persevere and grow in His grace and power.



JLB
 
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