Gods wrath on sexual immorality

Ben Collyer

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Hi all, I was talking to a Ghanaian preacher yesterday and what he taught me was very edifying but one thing he said has left me confused

He told me a story about a young christian who was having sex with many women and attending church, and one day when he was having sex with one of his women he died suddenly in the bed, during the act, and the man said that he went to hell

(how does he know he went to hell)?

I was left feeling condemned and i began to question my salvation, because for the first few years after becoming a christian I was still commiting sexual immorality on a regular basis, I have since repented and left that behind but I cant help but wonder two things

1. is this story likely to be true? Would God really kill a man during the act before he has a chance to repent

2. if it is true, why did God not smote me during my years of rebellion?
 

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Hi all, I was talking to a Ghanaian preacher yesterday and what he taught me was very edifying but one thing he said has left me confused

He told me a story about a young christian who was having sex with many women and attending church, and one day when he was having sex with one of his women he died suddenly in the bed, during the act, and the man said that he went to hell

(how does he know he went to hell)?

I was left feeling condemned and i began to question my salvation, because for the first few years after becoming a christian I was still commiting sexual immorality on a regular basis, I have since repented and left that behind but I cant help but wonder two things

1. is this story likely to be true? Would God really kill a man during the act before he has a chance to repent

2. if it is true, why did God not smote me during my years of rebellion?
1) I don’t think anyone knows.
2) He had mercy on you.
 
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com7fy8

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(how does he know he went to hell)?
The Bible says fornicators have no inheritance in the kingdom of God. So, this could be why he said that.

1. is this story likely to be true? Would God really kill a man during the act before he has a chance to repent
Yes, that could have happened. But it does not automatically mean God killed him right then in order to punish him. But God has control of when people die. And it could have been a punishment and also could have been meant to protect other women from him.

2. if it is true, why did God not smote me during my years of rebellion?
2) He had mercy on you.
And after God has had mercy on us, He expects us to also have mercy for others, as He has been merciful with us.
 
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discipler7

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Hi all, I was talking to a Ghanaian preacher yesterday and what he taught me was very edifying but one thing he said has left me confused

He told me a story about a young christian who was having sex with many women and attending church,
.
A mature and true Christian wouldn't be having sex with many women and attending Church(= the House of God), especially after coming to the knowledge of the truth.
....... If those women were his neighbours' wives and naive virgin-daughters in that Church, God would have little mercy on him.
.

HEBREWS.10: =
The Just Live by Faith
26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.
28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

1CORINTHIANS.6: = 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

REVELATION.22: =
Jesus Testifies to the Churches
12 “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”

14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

16 “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”

17 And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.
 
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brinny

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Hi all, I was talking to a Ghanaian preacher yesterday and what he taught me was very edifying but one thing he said has left me confused

He told me a story about a young christian who was having sex with many women and attending church, and one day when he was having sex with one of his women he died suddenly in the bed, during the act, and the man said that he went to hell

(how does he know he went to hell)?

I was left feeling condemned and i began to question my salvation, because for the first few years after becoming a christian I was still commiting sexual immorality on a regular basis, I have since repented and left that behind but I cant help but wonder two things

1. is this story likely to be true? Would God really kill a man during the act before he has a chance to repent

2. if it is true, why did God not smote me during my years of rebellion?

Didn't you say you repented?

By the way, in the other thread where you described lying in bed with your female best friend and just cuddled all night after drinking alcohol, and then wondered why she developed feelings for you beyond friendship....

That's a bad idea too.
 
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ValleyGal

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For some people, hormones are a powerful thing, and the drive to sin is too much to bear. Personally, the more I understand about the nature of Jesus' sacrifice, the less concerned I am about behaviour, and am more concerned about the nature of our human condition. Whether we act on things or not is not the main issue of salvation, imo. Even after becoming born again, we will continue to sin, whether deliberately or in a moment of weakness. Our behaviour may reveal the condition of our soul - that is, one who does not walk by the Spirit will bear no fruit, and one who will walk by the Spirit bears fruit.

A man who continues to sin is not necessarily destined for hell. I say this because perhaps his particular sin has not yet been yielded to change and alignment with God's will. For true repentance of a sinful behaviour, he has to hate the sin simply because his love for God is more than the enjoyment his sin brings. But that does not negate a genuine confession of his need of salvation through Jesus' death. Jesus died for us while we were still sinners... and when we confess this need for him, he saves us... and then when we face our judgement, Jesus will testify that he has paid for all our sin (read 1 John).

Example. I smoked for 20 years, 5 of which were after I was "saved". There was no immediate conviction for me to quit. But there were dark areas of my heart that I knew I had to deal with immediately. It was more than four years after my confession that I started feeling convicted of smoking. I prepared myself, and then I quit. Were I to go to hell for polluting my body, the temple of my spirit and God's Spirit during the five years of smoking? No. I knew that Jesus was the one who would advocate for me with the Father when my judgement came. BUT... when the Lord convicted me of that behavioural sin, I obeyed.

Imo, no one can say whether someone goes to heaven or hell because only God knows the condition of the heart.

God did not smite you (as with most of us) during your sin because it's not your time and he has a purpose for you.
 
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com7fy8

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I recall there being a scripture that says that God will sometimes, as an act of mercy, end the life of a believer...if anyone knows what im talking about please post the verse and a commentary
In the New Testament, Ben, I do not know of a scripture which says this. But we do have preaching of the idea that a believer can not lose his or her salvation; and so, if a believer keeps pushing into more and more sin, God might take the person before the sinning can get so bad that the person would/could go to hell < something like this, I have heard. But it is a way to justify that people who get saved can do anything and not go to hell.

We do have what happened to the Corinthians who abused the Lord's Supper > 1 Corinthians chapter 11. Many died and were weak and sick, Paul says, because of their sinful ways of relating . . . I understand. They were not only forgetting to confess a few sins they might have done at home. But they were treating people at their suppers in a bad way > shaming those who had "nothing" < Jesus Christ's own brothers and sisters.

So, it is possible, my opinion, that the ones so unloving did not know God.

To me, Hebrews 12:4-11 is very clear, that our Heavenly Father succeeds in correcting each of His children > Hebrews 12:8.

If we can have faith to believe that God will take us to Heaven, no matter how we sin after being saved, why not have faith to believe that our Father will succeed in correcting each of us so in this life we do all which His word means? After all, it is written in Isaiah 55:11 how God's word will do all which God pleases > this is included in our unconditional guarantee > we can not lose our salvation, but also we can not fail to get all which our Heavenly Father's correction does, before we die, plus His word shall do in us and our lives all which God means by His word. This is a package deal, all included.

So, I do not find it is scriptural that a child of God can fail to get real correction and then God can take the person because the person keeps on sinning.

Also >

"Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world." (1 John 4:17)

So, God's love in us > Romans 5:5 > succeeds in making us perfect the way His love is truly perfect. And this makes us "as He is" "in this world"; and this is our Biblical reason to have "boldness in the day of judgment". And this is His word saying this has been done, His word which is guaranteed to so succeed :)

So, in case any of us has been living otherwise and we are sure we have trusted in Jesus for salvation, now please feed on this and expect this, and do not put hope and devotion in some idea that we can sin to death but go to "Heaven". But trust in how God is able to so greatly succeed an any and all of us, equally. No one is more or less than anyone else. We all have failed and sinned and been weak, somehow. And God's word guarantees how He succeeds in us who have trusted in Him . . . not who have trusted in our own ability!!
 
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ViaCrucis

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Hi all, I was talking to a Ghanaian preacher yesterday and what he taught me was very edifying but one thing he said has left me confused

He told me a story about a young christian who was having sex with many women and attending church, and one day when he was having sex with one of his women he died suddenly in the bed, during the act, and the man said that he went to hell

(how does he know he went to hell)?

I was left feeling condemned and i began to question my salvation, because for the first few years after becoming a christian I was still commiting sexual immorality on a regular basis, I have since repented and left that behind but I cant help but wonder two things

1. is this story likely to be true? Would God really kill a man during the act before he has a chance to repent

2. if it is true, why did God not smote me during my years of rebellion?

Sounds like a boogeyman story to me, frankly. It is unfortunate that people decide to tell boogeyman stories where God is the boogeyman.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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discipler7

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Sounds like a boogeyman story to me, frankly. It is unfortunate that people decide to tell boogeyman stories where God is the boogeyman.
.
ACTS.5: =
Lying to the Holy Spirit
5:1 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession. 2 And he kept back part of the proceeds, his wife also being aware of it, and brought a certain part and laid it at the apostles’ feet. 3 But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself? 4 While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.”

5 Then Ananias, hearing these words, fell down and breathed his last. So great fear came upon all those who heard these things. 6 And the young men arose and wrapped him up, carried him out, and buried him.

7 Now it was about three hours later when his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. 8 And Peter answered her, “Tell me whether you sold the land for so much?”

She said, “Yes, for so much.”

9 Then Peter said to her, “How is it that you have agreed together to test the Spirit of the Lord? Look, the feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out.” 10 Then immediately she fell down and breathed her last. And the young men came in and found her dead, and carrying her out, buried her by her husband. 11 So great fear came upon all the church and upon all who heard these things.

1JOHN.5: = 16 If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that.
17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.

1CORINTHIANS.11: = 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world.
 
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Ben Collyer

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Sounds like a boogeyman story to me, frankly. It is unfortunate that people decide to tell boogeyman stories where God is the boogeyman.

-CryptoLutheran

that was my initial thought aswell, some sort of scare mongering story that misrepresents Gods character
 
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ValleyGal

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I recall there being a scripture that says that God will sometimes, as an act of mercy, end the life of a believer...if anyone knows what im talking about please post the verse and a commentary
I don't know any verses either, but I can give you an example of this happening. It was a really long time ago, and I knew the man personally. He was a friend, and was part of my social group. The man had a long history of drug use/misuse, but he had really cleaned up. He quit using, except he still smoked a little pot from time to time. There was a certain pastor who took it upon himself to pass judgement. He told my friend that he was on his way to hell because he had not given up smoking. This was new year's eve day, and my friend decided he was giving up since he knew he would never be good enough to go to heaven (based on the judgement the pastor had spoken), and he was going to "bring the new year in right." He took off and went to do a drug deal, where an argument broke out. My friend started towards the other guy, and by the end of it all, he got shot in the neck. His time of death was 11:58. He sure brought the new year in right... in heaven, I believe.

Now, this situation is much different from some guy dying in the middle of his sinful act. We know nothing about the truth of the story, we know nothing about the condition of his heart. We know nothing about his efforts to live a godly life. I don't doubt that stories like this can happen, but I don't think anyone is in a position to judge him. We ALL sin and fall short... and God alone knows the condition of our heart. I believe I will see my friend again one day - not because I'm passing a judgement, but rather because I saw him weep before the Lord over his sin, and I saw the depths of darkness that he had crawled out of.

My story is not about God killing a man before he had a chance to repent, which was your question one in the op. Rather, the story of my friend was more about God allowing the body to die in order to save his soul, so that my friend would not enter into the new year by disassociating from his faith.
 
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Kit Sigmon

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I recall there being a scripture that says that God will sometimes, as an act of mercy, end the life of a believer...if anyone knows what im talking about please post the verse and a commentary

Lives being cut short/ended....
1 Corinthians 5:4-5
Genesis 6:5-8
Deuteronomy 4:40
Proverbs 10:27
Acts 5:1-11
1 Corinthians 11:29-32
1 Chronicles 10:13-14
Ephesians 6:2-3
1 John 5:16
 
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discipler7

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I recall there being a scripture that says that God will sometimes, as an act of mercy, end the life of a believer...if anyone knows what im talking about please post the verse and a commentary
1COR.5 below relates about an incest-sinner in the Corinthian Church in Greece. Bear in mind that Roman Law permitted incest, adultery, divorce, homosexuality, fornication, sodomy and prostitution whereas God's Law does not.
....... Somewhere in 2COR states that the incest-sinner repented after being disciplined by the Corinthian Church = he was likely saved when he died. If he had refused to repent and continued with his incest-sin or other sexual sins = he was likely not saved.
.
1CORINTHIANS.5: =
Immorality Defiles the Church
5:1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and such sexual immorality as is not even named among the Gentiles—that a man has his father’s wife! 2 And you are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he who has done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I indeed, as absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged (as though I were present) him who has so done this deed. 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

6 Your glorying is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? 7 Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us. 8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

Immorality Must Be Judged
9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.

12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.”

MATTHEW.18: =
Dealing with a Sinning Brother
15 “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ 17 And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.
 
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You have answered it yourself, that you have repented. Repenting is a daily life long duty, and not some one time thing as many teach: Christ tells us that repentance for the remission of sins is what should be preached in His Name among all nations, which was also His first command to any that will follow Him. When we sin we should repent, and not when we sin we should not (or do not have to) repent. We repent that our sin may be passed over (forgiven): this is the confessing our sins, which is owning our sins; then is He faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Unfortunately many which profess Christ are deceived into believing that nothing is required of them of the Lord, and go through their life proceeding from one sin to the next, and still suppose that they are justified by Christ: but Christ is not the minister of sin.
 
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discipler7

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There was a certain pastor who took it upon himself to pass judgement. He told my friend that he was on his way to hell because he had not given up smoking.
The pastor was in error because the Word of God at ACTS.15:24-29 permits a Gentile Christian to continue being addicted to drugs after his/her coming to faith, eg cocaine, pot/weed, nicotine, alcohol, caffeine, prescription pills(cf; LEVITICUS.10:9), like the exemption from being circumcised and eating only kosher foods.
....... Going tee-total or cold turkey on drugs is too burdensome for a new Gentile Christian addict. New Gentile Christians are only required by God to keep the non-burdensome laws of Moses, esp morality laws, eg the Ten Commandments at EXODUS.20. Why.? Because eternal life through faith in Jesus Christ trumps a long life on earth through Moses Law.
....... A brain-altered drug-addict is similar to a pancrea-damaged Type-2 diabetic being "addicted" or dependent on daily insulin intake, in order to sustain his/her life on earth.

Wrt Bible knowledge, Christians should rely more on themselves rather than on pastors. Pastors, who graduated from Bible College, should be seen as advisors or consultants by Church members, like a shepherd caring for the sheep, and not as a spiritual authority like God or the secular authority like the US government/police. Similarly, we should not treat every college graduate as an authority in his/her field of study, eg doctors are not infallible. ...

HEBREWS.8: = 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”
 
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Andrew77

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Hi all, I was talking to a Ghanaian preacher yesterday and what he taught me was very edifying but one thing he said has left me confused

He told me a story about a young christian who was having sex with many women and attending church, and one day when he was having sex with one of his women he died suddenly in the bed, during the act, and the man said that he went to hell

(how does he know he went to hell)?

I was left feeling condemned and i began to question my salvation, because for the first few years after becoming a christian I was still commiting sexual immorality on a regular basis, I have since repented and left that behind but I cant help but wonder two things

1. is this story likely to be true? Would God really kill a man during the act before he has a chance to repent

2. if it is true, why did God not smote me during my years of rebellion?

No one knows with absolute certainty, where other people go when they die, except for the Christian himself, of his own salvation. Remember, when Jesus was on the cross, the thief next to him repented at the very last minutes of his life, and Jesus said that he would be with him in paradise.

It is impossible for us to know if someone didn't repent, even in the last few seconds they have on Earth. Anyone can repent, even at the very door of death itself.

Nevertheless, the preachers assessment is likely accurate.

Based on the information given, it is unlikely that this man was a Christian. Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."

It's pretty clear that not everyone who says they are Christian, are in fact Christian. If you go to a Church, where they are praising G-d every Sunday, and boinking every girl they meet Sunday night, they are not a Christian.

The only exception to that, is when people are not taught basic sexual morality. Truth is, a lot of 'christian' churches fail to teach basic christian morality. Far too many pastors shy away from the subject because it is 'uncomfortable' and let their congregations burn in ignorance.

If this man was never told that what he is doing is wrong, then I would not try and determine his salvation status. You can't expect people who are never taught right from wrong, to magically know Christian virtues the moment they become Christian.

Now as to the question of why G-d would strike a man down:

Have you ever been hit really hard by someone, by accident? I have. It hurts. But there is a huge difference between that, and someone doing it on purpose. You react differently don't you? Someone does something that really hurts you by accident, you react one way, and someone intentionally causes you pain, you react another way.

G-d is the same way.

There is a huge difference between someone who simply doesn't know or even someone who knows but it struggling, verses a person who says they are a Christian and they know what they are doing is wrong, and they intend to keep doing wrong, and they don't care what G-d thinks on the matter.

Do you see the difference? When you intentionally stick it in the face of G-d, and say yeah I'm doing wrong, and I don't care, and you can't stop me..... that is a great way to provoke the Lord to anger.

And there is another way. That is if you bring dishonor to the name of Christ. If you are telling people "Yeah I believe in Jesus!" and yet you are screwing women all the time, and everyone knows it. That will not go unpunished, because you are harming the name of Jesus. You are making the name of his son who died for us, to be mocked before the pagans. G-d does not take that lightly.

If you are doing something that is sinful and evil, the only advice I can give beyond repent and stop that, is you at least had better not shame the name of Jesus. You better keep your Christianity quiet. G-d will not let that go unpunished if you are intentionally being evil, and proclaiming your Christianity.

Years ago, I had a lady say "well I did (xxx), and my life turned out ok".

And I thought in my mind, but did not say at the time.... Maybe the reason your life turned out ok, isn't because what you did wasn't so bad, but maybe G-d's mercy on you was just that great.

That is what you should think about your past. You don't need to question your salvation. 1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness."

You confessed, you repented, you stopped doing evil, and started doing right. Our Lord is kind and just to forgive.

You no longer need to question your salvation. When you think of your past, the only thought you need to have, is that is just how much Mercy and Grace our Lord has.
 
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Dan61861

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Ben,

Pharaoh had asked Jacob how old he was, Jacob gave him his age. The next words out of Jacob's mouth has really resonated with me. Jacob said...few and evil have been the years of my life. Jacob looked upon himself as a sinner, an unjust man.
If we look to our sins for righteousness, we place ourselves back under the Law. We are all sinners, each and every one of us. If we say we have no sin, Christ is not in us. As Christians we look towards the cross for our salvation. Not what we do right or wrong.

Our own righteousness is as filthy rags before God. It is Christ's righteousness alone that is placed upon us that makes us holy, like He is holy. This should be humbling for each of us. As Paul said, we arecommend ourselves barely saved.

This is why it is impossible for man, yet nothing is impossible for God. For it is by God that we are cleansed. His grace is truly sufficient.

If our hope is in our actions, than none of us are saved. Thankfully our hope is in Christ, our redeemer.

In Christ
Daniel
 
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Dan61861

7 days without God, makes one weak.
Jul 21, 2012
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5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

May I ask, are you reading may be as maybe?

In Christ
Daniel
 
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