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I'm not looking to stir up controversy or to encourage anyone to be a maverick, but I received a quote from my "Orthodox quote of the day" that surprised me.

And I've been thinking a lot lately about things like converts adjusting to a prayer rule, especially converts who already had experienced an active prayer life.

I'm interested to discuss this.

PLEASE - what I'm NOT interested in is any non-Orthodox who simply wants to condemn the practice either of regularly scheduled prayers or formal prayers. Scripture mentions "the hour of prayer" and regular prayers through both the Old and New Testaments - it is a well established practice in the history of the people of God. And the book of Psalms IS prayers. Please feel free to make a thread in St. Justin's if you want to debate the practice altogether. Thanks. :)

Ok ... so here's the quote -

"He who at dinner has many different foods eats much and with pleasure, whereas he who uses every day the same food not only eats it without pleasure but sometimes perhaps even feels repelled by it. So it is in our state. In psalmody and prayer do not bind yourself, but do as much as the Lord gives you. Do not abandon reading and interior prayer either. Some of one and some of the other and so you will spend the day pleasing God. Our perfect fathers did not have a fixed rule, but during the course of the whole day they carried out their rule."
St. Barsanuphius the Great
On the Prayer of Jesus 56

Does anyone have particular insight on the context, first?

Comments? Discussion?

I have more to add but just this post is enough to read to start, I'm afraid. :)

Thanks!
 

EastCoastRemnant

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Here's some thoughts on prayer... hope it helps with your query. My apologies if not...

"Watch ye therefore, and pray always," is the injunction of Christ to His disciples. Again we read in the inspired Word, "In everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known unto God."

God has made it our duty to pray. The riches of the universe belong to Him. He has all temporal and spiritual treasures at His command, and can supply every want from His abundant fulness. We receive our breath from Him; every temporal blessing that we enjoy is His gift. We are dependent upon Him not only for temporal blessings, but for grace and strength to keep us from falling under the power of temptation. We daily need the Bread of Life to give us spiritual strength and vigor, just as much as we need food to sustain our physical strength and give us firm muscles. We are compassed with weakness and infirmities, doubts and temptations; but we can come to Jesus in our need, and He will not turn us away empty. He invites, "Come unto Me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you, and learn of Me, for I am meek and lowly of heart, and ye shall find rest unto your souls." This is no doubtful, uncertain promise, but a positive one. If we come to Him, we shall not be disappointed. Yet how unwilling we seem to accept the gracious invitation. When in trouble, we too often go for help to our brethren, who are no wiser nor stronger than ourselves; but if we would go to Jesus, if we would take our troubles to Him in prayer, we should find rest, and peace, and courage. The wisdom that God gives is unerring; His strength is sufficient for all our needs. Let us lay our burdens at the feet of Jesus, and according to His promise. He will take the weary load, and encircle us in the arms of His love.

The reason that we do not realize greater help is because there is lack of earnest, fervent devotion. Jesus reproved the Pharisees for drawing near to God with their mouth, and honoring Him with their lips, while their hearts were far from Him. "God is a Spirit; and they that worship Him must worship in spirit and in truth." We must have a deep, earnest sense of our needs. We must feel our weakness and our dependence upon God, and come to Him with contrition of soul and brokenness of heart. Our petitions must be offered in perfect submission; every desire must be brought into harmony with the will of God, and His will must be done in us. We must not pray in a doubting, half-hearted manner, but with full assurance of faith. When we come to Him in this manner, Jesus will listen to our prayers, and will answer them; but if we regard iniquity in our hearts, if we cherish any darling sin, we may be assured that no blessing will be given in response to our prayers.

Faith takes God at His word, with or without feeling. It "is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." We can believe our fellowmen, and can we not trust the word of God? When we go to Him for wisdom or grace, we are not to look to ourselves to see if He has given us a special feeling as an assurance that He has fulfilled His word. Feeling is no criterion. Great evils have resulted when Christians have followed feeling. How do I know that Jesus hears my prayers?--I know it by His promise. He says He will hear the needy when they cry unto Him, and I believe His word. He has never said to the "seed of Jacob, seek ye Me in vain."

If we walk in the light, we may come to the throne of grace with holy boldness. We may present the promises of God in living faith, and urge our petitions. Although we are weak, and erring, and unworthy, "the Spirit helpeth our infirmities." But too often our prayers are molded by coldness and backsliding. Those who do not deny self and lift the cross of Christ, will have no courage to approach a heart-searching God. We must learn to watch unto prayer, and to be importunate. We must accustom ourselves to seek divine guidance through prayer; we must learn to trust in Him from whom our help cometh. Our desires should be unto God; our souls should go out after Him, and their attitude should always be that of supplication.

When we have offered our petition once, we must not then abandon it, but say, as did Jacob when he wrestled all night with the angel, "I will not let Thee go, except Thou bless me, " and like him we shall prevail.

There are many who are surrounded with clouds of darkness. They try to do something themselves, some great and good work which will win the favor of God and make them happy, but they neglect the very work that they should do. But the path of happiness is the path of obedience. We should in no case blind our eyes to our true condition, and then pray in a loose, general manner. Prayers of this kind rise no higher than the petitioner's head, and bring no answer of mercy, because they are dictated by no sense of need. Says the apostle, "Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves." Inquire into the character of your thoughts, purposes, temper, words, and deeds. Compare your experience with the declarations of Scripture, and see whether you are gathering with Christ or scattering abroad. See if your life testifies that you are in the faith.

We should search the Scriptures daily; for the Word of God is our unerring guide. We are here in a world of doubt and skepticism. The law of God is made void, unbelief seems to be in the very air we breathe; and to resist all these influences, and battle successfully against the powers of darkness, requires strong faith and earnest prayer. But amid all these opposing influences, we may repose in God with perfect confidence. I once read of an eagle that had left her home in the Alps, and clouds dark and heavy intervened between her and her home in the towering cliffs. She seemed bewildered, and with loud screams flew first one way and then another against the over-hanging clouds. Suddenly, with a shrill scream of determination, she darted upward through the dense clouds into the clear sky above. The clouds were beneath her, and she was again in her mountain home. And so may we rise above the clouds of skepticism, and dwell in the clear sunshine of God's presence.

It is only by watching unto prayer, and the exercise of living faith, that the Christian can preserve his integrity in the midst of the temptations that Satan brings to bear upon him. But "whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world; and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith." Talk to your heart constantly the language of faith: "Jesus said He would receive me, and I believe His word. I will praise Him; I will glorify His name." Satan will be close by your side to suggest that you do not feel any joy. Answer him: "'This is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.' I have everything to be glad of; for I am a child of God. I am trusting in Jesus. The law of God is in my heart; none of my steps shall slide."
 
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ArmyMatt

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Here's some thoughts on prayer... hope it helps with your query. My apologies if not...

"Watch ye therefore, and pray always," is the injunction of Christ to His disciples. Again we read in the inspired Word, "In everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known unto God."

God has made it our duty to pray. The riches of the universe belong to Him. He has all temporal and spiritual treasures at His command, and can supply every want from His abundant fulness. We receive our breath from Him; every temporal blessing that we enjoy is His gift. We are dependent upon Him not only for temporal blessings, but for grace and strength to keep us from falling under the power of temptation. We daily need the Bread of Life to give us spiritual strength and vigor, just as much as we need food to sustain our physical strength and give us firm muscles. We are compassed with weakness and infirmities, doubts and temptations; but we can come to Jesus in our need, and He will not turn us away empty. He invites, "Come unto Me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you, and learn of Me, for I am meek and lowly of heart, and ye shall find rest unto your souls." This is no doubtful, uncertain promise, but a positive one. If we come to Him, we shall not be disappointed. Yet how unwilling we seem to accept the gracious invitation. When in trouble, we too often go for help to our brethren, who are no wiser nor stronger than ourselves; but if we would go to Jesus, if we would take our troubles to Him in prayer, we should find rest, and peace, and courage. The wisdom that God gives is unerring; His strength is sufficient for all our needs. Let us lay our burdens at the feet of Jesus, and according to His promise. He will take the weary load, and encircle us in the arms of His love.

The reason that we do not realize greater help is because there is lack of earnest, fervent devotion. Jesus reproved the Pharisees for drawing near to God with their mouth, and honoring Him with their lips, while their hearts were far from Him. "God is a Spirit; and they that worship Him must worship in spirit and in truth." We must have a deep, earnest sense of our needs. We must feel our weakness and our dependence upon God, and come to Him with contrition of soul and brokenness of heart. Our petitions must be offered in perfect submission; every desire must be brought into harmony with the will of God, and His will must be done in us. We must not pray in a doubting, half-hearted manner, but with full assurance of faith. When we come to Him in this manner, Jesus will listen to our prayers, and will answer them; but if we regard iniquity in our hearts, if we cherish any darling sin, we may be assured that no blessing will be given in response to our prayers.

Faith takes God at His word, with or without feeling. It "is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." We can believe our fellowmen, and can we not trust the word of God? When we go to Him for wisdom or grace, we are not to look to ourselves to see if He has given us a special feeling as an assurance that He has fulfilled His word. Feeling is no criterion. Great evils have resulted when Christians have followed feeling. How do I know that Jesus hears my prayers?--I know it by His promise. He says He will hear the needy when they cry unto Him, and I believe His word. He has never said to the "seed of Jacob, seek ye Me in vain."

If we walk in the light, we may come to the throne of grace with holy boldness. We may present the promises of God in living faith, and urge our petitions. Although we are weak, and erring, and unworthy, "the Spirit helpeth our infirmities." But too often our prayers are molded by coldness and backsliding. Those who do not deny self and lift the cross of Christ, will have no courage to approach a heart-searching God. We must learn to watch unto prayer, and to be importunate. We must accustom ourselves to seek divine guidance through prayer; we must learn to trust in Him from whom our help cometh. Our desires should be unto God; our souls should go out after Him, and their attitude should always be that of supplication.

When we have offered our petition once, we must not then abandon it, but say, as did Jacob when he wrestled all night with the angel, "I will not let Thee go, except Thou bless me, " and like him we shall prevail.

There are many who are surrounded with clouds of darkness. They try to do something themselves, some great and good work which will win the favor of God and make them happy, but they neglect the very work that they should do. But the path of happiness is the path of obedience. We should in no case blind our eyes to our true condition, and then pray in a loose, general manner. Prayers of this kind rise no higher than the petitioner's head, and bring no answer of mercy, because they are dictated by no sense of need. Says the apostle, "Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves." Inquire into the character of your thoughts, purposes, temper, words, and deeds. Compare your experience with the declarations of Scripture, and see whether you are gathering with Christ or scattering abroad. See if your life testifies that you are in the faith.

We should search the Scriptures daily; for the Word of God is our unerring guide. We are here in a world of doubt and skepticism. The law of God is made void, unbelief seems to be in the very air we breathe; and to resist all these influences, and battle successfully against the powers of darkness, requires strong faith and earnest prayer. But amid all these opposing influences, we may repose in God with perfect confidence. I once read of an eagle that had left her home in the Alps, and clouds dark and heavy intervened between her and her home in the towering cliffs. She seemed bewildered, and with loud screams flew first one way and then another against the over-hanging clouds. Suddenly, with a shrill scream of determination, she darted upward through the dense clouds into the clear sky above. The clouds were beneath her, and she was again in her mountain home. And so may we rise above the clouds of skepticism, and dwell in the clear sunshine of God's presence.

It is only by watching unto prayer, and the exercise of living faith, that the Christian can preserve his integrity in the midst of the temptations that Satan brings to bear upon him. But "whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world; and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith." Talk to your heart constantly the language of faith: "Jesus said He would receive me, and I believe His word. I will praise Him; I will glorify His name." Satan will be close by your side to suggest that you do not feel any joy. Answer him: "'This is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.' I have everything to be glad of; for I am a child of God. I am trusting in Jesus. The law of God is in my heart; none of my steps shall slide."

the OP asked for Orthodox only responses...
 
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ArmyMatt

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I'm not looking to stir up controversy or to encourage anyone to be a maverick, but I received a quote from my "Orthodox quote of the day" that surprised me.

And I've been thinking a lot lately about things like converts adjusting to a prayer rule, especially converts who already had experienced an active prayer life.

I'm interested to discuss this.

PLEASE - what I'm NOT interested in is any non-Orthodox who simply wants to condemn the practice either of regularly scheduled prayers or formal prayers. Scripture mentions "the hour of prayer" and regular prayers through both the Old and New Testaments - it is a well established practice in the history of the people of God. And the book of Psalms IS prayers. Please feel free to make a thread in St. Justin's if you want to debate the practice altogether. Thanks. :)

Ok ... so here's the quote -

"He who at dinner has many different foods eats much and with pleasure, whereas he who uses every day the same food not only eats it without pleasure but sometimes perhaps even feels repelled by it. So it is in our state. In psalmody and prayer do not bind yourself, but do as much as the Lord gives you. Do not abandon reading and interior prayer either. Some of one and some of the other and so you will spend the day pleasing God. Our perfect fathers did not have a fixed rule, but during the course of the whole day they carried out their rule."
St. Barsanuphius the Great
On the Prayer of Jesus 56

Does anyone have particular insight on the context, first?

Comments? Discussion?

I have more to add but just this post is enough to read to start, I'm afraid. :)

Thanks!

I think it has to do with throughout the day keep in constant prayer and meditation as God directs you. but also his follows only one of many kinds of rules.
 
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~Anastasia~

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Well I don't mind others contributing really - but our perspectives are slightly different. We do take seriously the injunction to pray at all times - constantly - but it means something different to us since we have the goal of interior prayer.

So ... we might not be speaking the same "language" in a sense.

But I don't mind.

I do hope those of us when can relate to the topic can discuss it though?
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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the OP asked for Orthodox only responses...
That's not what I read... just thought the quote I gave was good for understanding prayer.

what I'm NOT interested in is any non-Orthodox who simply wants to condemn the practice either of regularly scheduled prayers or formal prayers.
 
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ArmyMatt

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That's not what I read... just thought the quote I gave was good for understanding prayer.

oh sorry about that. I misread, so my bad. I only saw the not non-Orthodox part, and we have had recent folks who have ignored when that was on threads. so sorry about that, I assumed when I should not have.
 
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Paidiske

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What it reminds me of, Anastasia - and I'm not sure if it's the same sort of thing the author of the quote was talking about - is how often when, for example, people are depressed, their prayer life suffers and they can feel unable to pray. But often that can be "got around" if they try out new ways to pray that they haven't used before. (So for example, I might suggest to someone in that state that they do something they've never done before, whether it's walking a labyrinth or using an icon or whatever it is for them). The newness of the form of prayer, and the fact that they don't have associations with it from before the depression, can help them find a voice for their prayer even in depression when their old habits aren't holding up well for them (if that makes sense?).
 
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mark kennedy

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I'm not looking to stir up controversy or to encourage anyone to be a maverick, but I received a quote from my "Orthodox quote of the day" that surprised me.

And I've been thinking a lot lately about things like converts adjusting to a prayer rule, especially converts who already had experienced an active prayer life.

I'm interested to discuss this.

PLEASE - what I'm NOT interested in is any non-Orthodox who simply wants to condemn the practice either of regularly scheduled prayers or formal prayers. Scripture mentions "the hour of prayer" and regular prayers through both the Old and New Testaments - it is a well established practice in the history of the people of God. And the book of Psalms IS prayers. Please feel free to make a thread in St. Justin's if you want to debate the practice altogether. Thanks. :)

Ok ... so here's the quote -

"He who at dinner has many different foods eats much and with pleasure, whereas he who uses every day the same food not only eats it without pleasure but sometimes perhaps even feels repelled by it. So it is in our state. In psalmody and prayer do not bind yourself, but do as much as the Lord gives you. Do not abandon reading and interior prayer either. Some of one and some of the other and so you will spend the day pleasing God. Our perfect fathers did not have a fixed rule, but during the course of the whole day they carried out their rule."
St. Barsanuphius the Great
On the Prayer of Jesus 56

Does anyone have particular insight on the context, first?

Comments? Discussion?

I have more to add but just this post is enough to read to start, I'm afraid. :)

Thanks!
It took a couple of readings but it seems to me, it's saying sometimes you might be eating this great meal but your more interested in praying, or something. It also seems to suggest that you shouldn't abandon prayer because you would rather get on to dinner. At least that's what I got out of it. It sounds like he is calling for balance, at least that's my take on it.

Meanwhile, back to the regularly scheduled discussion.

Grace and peace,
Mark
 
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~Anastasia~

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What it reminds me of, Anastasia - and I'm not sure if it's the same sort of thing the author of the quote was talking about - is how often when, for example, people are depressed, their prayer life suffers and they can feel unable to pray. But often that can be "got around" if they try out new ways to pray that they haven't used before. (So for example, I might suggest to someone in that state that they do something they've never done before, whether it's walking a labyrinth or using an icon or whatever it is for them). The newness of the form of prayer, and the fact that they don't have associations with it from before the depression, can help them find a voice for their prayer even in depression when their old habits aren't holding up well for them (if that makes sense?).
Hmmm.

I'm not sure if that's what he meant or not, but that's certainly very interesting and worth knowing, IMO.

Actually I need to process that a bit. "Discipline" is an important part of WHY we pray. But being miserable at it is certainly not an essential element - God forbid.

I'm not saying you are off-topic by the way. Some threads of that are important to remember, I think. Prayer should be dynamic and alive, not static and dead.

Thank you.
 
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Though denominations differ, I typically only see Christian. That being said....
1 Thessalonians 5:7
Pray without ceasing.
So I see where the spirit leads one to "internally pray". Not a surprise.
In light of the post and the subsequent quote in it, what I saw was a reiteration of what Paul says in Romans 14 which covers a lot of the quote actually..
1Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. 2For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. 3Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. 4Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

5One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. 6He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. 7For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. 8For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's. 9For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

10But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

11For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

12So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

13Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way. 14I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean. 15But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died. 16Let not then your good be evil spoken of: 17For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. 18For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men. 19Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another. 20For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence. 21It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak. 22Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth. 23And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

The whole concept uses the food itself as the metaphor, the vehicle if you will, through which the message is delivered. The same would apply to the "hour of prayer" or other traditions which one would either happily do, or do begrudgingly. The quote addresses the latter specifically in "not binding yourself" because in a sense, it is right along the same lines as going back and "putting the yoke back on" which of course is the "do this or be condemned" aspect of the law, the necessity part.
The main thread in the quote seems to be the cheerful giving heart. Whatever you are to do, do so with a pure heart, not out of some rule that you have to follow, but as a reflection of the giving nature that we are given likewise.

2 Corinthians 9:7
7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

From a Christian to another Christian in the same spirit that raised Jesus from the grave. Hope this helps.
 
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I think it has to do with throughout the day keep in constant prayer and meditation as God directs you. but also his follows only one of many kinds of rules.
Not sure if there's a typo in the end so I'm not quite sure I understand that part.

But I thought of it also - constant communion with God "feeds" prayer in a way and keeps it alive. I've been thinking of that lately too.

One comment on that - I tried to do it as a "rule" (with my SF's blessing) - praying by the hours - but honestly didn't do too well with that. It may be a matter of lingering rebellion, sadly, brought out by the idea of "obligation". I think maybe I'm not proficient enough for that to be beneficial for me yet? I'll have to mention it to him and see if he has more insight on that.

But by contrast, I have gotten better at what my priest was trying to encourage me in when I first became Orthodox - a more organic habit of simply turning briefly to God at many points for various reasons. Not with any schedule or with particular prayers, but frequent spontaneous petitions for others, thanks for this or that, or many other things. (Which ironically I did as non-Orthodox but thinking back I had a sometimes stilted and formalistic framework to that kind of all-day prayer before unless it just went wandering - Odd that everything has flipped opposite for me but thankfully I have learned in what ways it is more effective).

Yet that kind of prayer, which has many benefits, such as keeping God in one's thoughts and other things - lacks the depths of expression and the heights one can reach through the wonderful formal prayers we have been given.

Thank you. I need to think on this some more.
 
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RobNJ

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"But I thought of it also - constant communion with God "feeds" prayer in a way and keeps it alive. I've been thinking of that lately too. "

I think that it's a reminder not to let yourself get to the state, where your prayer rule becomes "prayer rote"... Mechanically going through the motions, without letting it take root and edify. There have been times I've gotten to the point where I realized I barely remembered if I included this, or that, because I was barely paying attention.
 
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"But I thought of it also - constant communion with God "feeds" prayer in a way and keeps it alive. I've been thinking of that lately too. "

I think that it's a reminder not to let yourself get to the state, where your prayer rule becomes "prayer rote"... Mechanically going through the motions, without letting it take root and edify. There have been times I've gotten to the point where I realized I barely remembered if I included this, or that, because I was barely paying attention.

That has been a learning curve for me, not having been brought up with formal prayers.

Spontaneous prayers can just wander off, or get repetitive (we try to have "many words" or just fill in with lots of repetition, even unintentionally), and so on. But formal prayers can be done mindlessly, as you say.

Attention (I think?) is the key to "fixing" both of those.

Silence can't be esteemed too highly either. But that requires attention too.

Now I'm getting into my own thoughts ...
 
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Haipule

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My problem with "prayer" is that it causes headaches to all whom try to teach and understand it :)

From Wake Up Call: William McCoy: used by permission. (I am the author)

Prayer

The hardest part about studying the subject of prayer is the word prayer itself! There are several words in the Greek Newer Testament(covenants) which are translated as “prayer”. Therefore, the word prayer over generalizes the subject. Then from this generalized word, teachers have specialized this concept and give us “the doctrine of prayer” complete with step-by-step instructions(as if God is anal), which are not Scriptural, on how to pray so that your prayer doesn’t “bounce off the ceiling”. When in reality, the only wrong way to pray(communicate with God) is not to pray(communicate with God)!

Our English word “prayer” is from a French word which is from a Medieval Latin word which means: to ask or beg. Such as the old English phrase, ”I pray thee give me…”

proseuchE

The Greek word usually translated as “prayer(noun)” is proseuchE. Its verb form is proseuchomai. It is the prefixed preposition pros(toward with the sense of “for” the benefit of as opposed to toward “against”) + euchomai = well-wishing(middle-passive). Or without the prefixed preposition, pros, is euchomai which means well-wishing. It is also sometimes translated as prayer, and sometimes as wish, and in the classical Greek, it is the primary word for communication with a Divine being.

Side by Side: Now(yet) we(I-am-) pray(-ing, euchomai, well-wishing)> to(pros, toward)> [thee]> <God2 Cor 13:7a NASB

Notice here that Paul separated pros, toward, as in “toward thee God”, from euchomai(well-wishing). Therefore, the pros in proseuchomai does not mean “toward” God. Rather, pros, as a prefix to euchomai, means: toward for(benefit).

proseuchE, proseuchomai, euchomai, does not always refer to prayer or praying. Sometimes it refers to wishing other well. Sometimes it is used as a greeting.

We(Paul and Timothy) give thanks to[-thee] God, [the] Father of[-thee] our Lord Jesus Christ, praying(proseuchomai) always for you, Col 1:3 NASB

Hyper-Literal(same verse): We-are-well-favoring(expressing gratitude) to-thee God and-also Father of-thee Master of-us, Jesus [ ]anointed-being, always concerning of-you-all, ones(Paul and Timothy)-always-toward-for(benefit)-well-wishing(proseuchomai, middle-passive), Col 1:3

This is expressing Paul’s and Timothy’s gratitude to God concerning the Colossians and how they always wish them the best, as in the English greeting, “best wishes”.

The middle-passive voice indicates that Paul and Timothy are motivated to do this. Which motivation is revealed in context as the “trust” and “agapE-love” of the Colossians.

For this reason also, since the day we heard of it, we have not ceased(huh?) to pray(proseuchomai) for you and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding, Col 1:9 NASB

Hyper-Literal(same verse): Though this-thing(agapE-love in pneuma-breath--neuter, from verse 8) and-also we(Paul and Timothy) from of-which day we-heard* not we-are-resting(ceasing from work, middle voice) over(expressing “for them” from a position of authority) you-all, ones(Paul and Timothy)-always-toward-for-wishing(proseuchomai, middle-passive) and-also ones-always-asking/begging(aiteO, middle voice) that(purpose) you-all-might-be-being-filled*> thee> <on-over-knowledge of-thee will of-Him-same in all wisdom and-also together-with(close association)-flowing pneumatic(pneuma-breath production), Col 1:9

Here proseuchomai is used to refer to prayer, communication with God, in their well-wishing for them.

The other words translated as “pray” are much simpler to grasp.

aiteO

“Asking/begging” in Colossians 1:9, is the Greek verb aiteO(not translated as “prayer” but has been doctrinally associated with it) which means: to ask for something to be given. The noun aitEma means: the thing asked for which has an effect. This verb is in the middle voice expressing a desire for the things listed in the verses that follow, to the benefit of the Colossians.

deEsis

Another Greek noun sometimes translated as “prayer” is deEsis and means: a petition, request, entreaty for someone in need or, for something needed. Its verb form is deomai and is usually translated “pray”. It can be directed toward God or man.

Hyper-Literal: Nothing(object of the verb) be!-you-all-anxious(the verb) but-rather in everything to-thee toward-for-wish(proseuchE) and-also to-thee petition(deEsis) with well-favor thee-all things-asked-for-effects(aitEmata, neuter) of-you-all be!-it-being-made-known toward thee God. Phil 4:6

enteuxis

Side by Side: for it(food) is(-being) sanctified(purified, separating a class from a class) by(through) means of [the]word(intellect) of God and(-also) prayer(enteuxis). 1 Tim 4:5 NASB

enteuxis is a noun which means: a falling in with, meeting with, an interview, a coming together; to visit, converse or for any other cause. It only occurs twice in the NT and only by Paul and only in 1st Timothy.

In its verb form, it is the prefixed preposition en(in) + tugchanO(hit the mark). tugchanO is the opposite of hamartia(miss the mark, usually translated “sin”). Now, how we came from entugchanO(verb) to enteuxis(noun) to the English word “prayer” is beyond me!

In context, Paul is referring to the gathering together of people (enteuxis) for a special meal(separating a class from a class) of good food and poignant conversation concerning the character and nature of God’s word. Sounds like a heavenly party!

Generalization

First of all, then, I urge that entreaties(deEsis, plural) and prayers(proseuchE, plural), petitions(enteuxis, plural) and thanksgivings(sometimes taught as a part of the “doctrine of prayer”), be made on behalf of all men, 1 Tim 2:1 NASB

According to common usage, I could translate 1 Timothy 2:1 as, “First of all, then, I urge that prayers and prayers, prayers and prayers, be made on behalf of all men”. See the problem of generalization?

Hebrew words translated as “pray”; na’(now!), ‘anna’(O now!), palal(mediate, intercede), sha’al(ask, beg).

“Pray” was added to Ephesians 1:18, 6:19 and Philemon 1:6.

Side by Side: I [-am-] thank(-ing, well-favoring) my[to-thee] God [of-me] always[,] making mention of you(remembrance of-you one-always-making--middle voice) in(on) [of-thee] (2)my(of-me) (1)prayers(prosuechOn-genitive plural, toward-for-well-wishes)(3-), [because] I hear(one-always-hearing) of you[r] [thee] love and(-also) [of] the faith(trust) which you(-all) [-are-] have(-ing) toward the Lord(Master) Jesus and(-also) toward(into) all the saints(pure-ones); and I pray that(as, how) the fellowship(feminine) of[-thee] (2)your(of-you) (1)faith(trust) (3-)may become effective(operative she-might-become--middle-passive)* through(in) [the]knowledge(on-over-knowledge) of every good thing which is[thee] in you(-all) for(into) Christ's(anointed) [sake](‘Jesus’ is added to the manuscript used by the KJV. ‘I’ is omitted from the translation of the manuscript used by the NASB). Philemon 1:4-6 NASB

The Lord’s Prayer

Luke 11

Hyper-Literal: And-also it-comes-to-pass(happens)* in thee to-be Him(Jesus)-same in that (2)certain (1)place, (3-)One-always-toward-for-well-wishing(middle-passive) as He-ceased(finished, acting upon Himself)*, he-says*, certain-one of-thee students of-Him-same, toward Him-same, “Master!, be!-you-teaching* us to-toward-for-well-wish(middle-passive) down-from(authority)-as and-also John(the Baptist) he-teaches* thee students of-him-same!”

Yet He-says* to-them-same, “whenever you-all-might-toward-for-well-wish(middle-passive), be!-you-all-saying:

‘Father! of-us thee in thee-all skies,

be!-it-being-purified(separating a class from a class)* thee fame(neuter) of-You,

be!-she-coming* thee rulership(feminine) of-You,

be!-it-coming(middle-passive)* thee will(neuter) of-You,

as in [ ]sky and-also on-over(authoritative position) of-thee land.

Thee bread(food) of-us, thee necessary,

be!-You-giving to-us thee-thing down-from day(possibly this word was added and sEmeron, a neuter adverb, which occurs is a similar passage in Matthew 6, was removed by a copier or editor).

And-also be!-You-from-sending* to-us thee-all misses(which incurs a dept to others) of-us,

for(reason) and also ourselves-same, we-are-from-sending* to-any one-always-owing(indebted) to-us.

and-also no You-might-into-carry(bring)* us into trial(forensic sense),

[but-rather be!-You-rescuing(delivering) us from thee annoying/annoying-one.’]” Luke 11:1-4

“but-rather be!-You-rescuing(delivering) us from thee annoying”, is not in the manuscripts used by the NASB. It is, however, in the manuscript used by the KJV.

“Annoying” is the adjective “ponEros”; it means: full of labors, hardships, annoyances. It is usually translated “wicked” or “evil” and sometimes as a substantive adjective as in, “evil-one”, implying reference to Satan. I’m not sure I know what “evil-one” means but, I can tell you this, Satan is annoying!

Matthew 6

Hyper-Literal: “Thusly then be!-you-all-toward-for-well-wishing(middle-passive), you-all,

‘Father! of-us, thee in thee skies,

be!-it-being-purified(separating a class from a class)* thee fame(neuter) of-You,

be!-she-coming* thee rulership(feminine) of-You,

be!-it-coming(middle-passive)* thee will(neuter) of-You,

as in [ ]sky and-also on-over(authoritative position) of-thee land.

Thee bread(food) of-us, thee necessary,

be!-You-giving to-us this-day(neuter adverb)

And-also be!-You-from-sending* to-us thee-all dept-effects of-us as,

and-also we we-are-from-sending* to-thee debtors of-us.

and-also no You-might-into-carry(bring)* us into trial(forensic sense)

but-rather be!-You-rescuing(delivering, middle-passive)* us from thee annoying/annoying-one,

[seeing-that of-You she-is thee rulership(feminine) and-also thee ability and-also thee glory(illumination) into thee-all breaths-being, So-be-it(amEn).’] Matt 6:9-13

“seeing-that of-you she-is thee rulership(feminine) and-also thee ability and-also thee glory(illumination) into thee-all breaths-being, So-be-it(amEn)”, is not in the earliest manuscripts.

Obviously, these two passages, according to context, are not the same event but two separate events in which Jesus was teaching them how to communicate with God. It is interesting all the imperative moods or rather, strong entreaties Jesus used: none of that “if it be your will” nonsense. It is also interesting, when these passages are compared side-by-side, the relationship between owing a debt and miss(“sin”). Our missing, being off the mark, incurs a debt to others and any miss against us, from others, makes us debtors.

I have been debtor to some whom have tried to harm me and I aiteO-begged God that He not destroys them. He, surprisingly, usually answers this prayer in the negative. It’s ugly! My suggestion, concerning God’s children, never be on the wrong side of God’s wrath! And remember, we do not come with warning labels!

Pray without Ceasing

pray without ceasing; 1Thess 5:17 NASB

Really? Really? Really?

Hyper-Literal(same verse in context): Be!-you-all-seeing no certain-one(unmentionable person) bad-thing instead of-bad-thing to-certain-one, he-might-from-give, but-rather always thee good-thing be!-you-all-pursuing(press on toward the goal) and-also into one-another(reciprocally, mutually) and-also into all(men) Always be!-you-all-rejoicing/thriving un-through-forsakenly(through lacking, through leaving, through lagging--adverb) be!-you-all-toward-for-well-wishing(middle-passive). 1 Thess 5:15-17

Paul, in the imperative mood, is commanding that the Thessalonians, and we through application, be always rejoicing/thriving and that we do not lag behind in wishing others well. And I say, whether to them or to God!

Prayer is a communication with God--PERIOD! Nothing more, nothing less! There is NO such thing as a prescribed manner in the communication/prayer with God, despite what legalism teaches.

“Bill, we must confess our sins first.” No! First of all, why are you off-target with your anointing? “Sin” is off-targetness, because your whole life is off-target with your anointing and harming yourself and/or others. People that are on-target are not missing their destiny! If your whole life is off-target with your anointing then you should acknowledge that to God as you are a target shooter facing the wrong direction! If you are harming others, then you should come to an agreement with them. Your prayers(communication with God) never, has never, will never, ever, “bounce off the ceiling” and that, regardless of your “status”.

“But Bill, was not the ark and the temple both built in a God prescribed exacting manner?” Yes, and you are the temple(sanctuary) being built, BY God Himself, in a God prescribed exacting manner! Prayer is not the same as building an ark in a righteous prescribed manner. It had to be built in a righteous prescribed manner so that it would work--period!

“Bill, doesn’t the bible say we should, ‘pray to the Father’”? You are always praying/communicating with, and to, thee God revealed to you as Father. You are always, and will always be, the teknon-child speaking/communicating/praying with, and to, your Father! And that, whether you understand it or not!

By the way, you are NOT an adopted child of God. Only Jews are said to be adopted. You, my good friend, as a Christian, are ALWAYS said to be BEGOTTEN of God as a son--NOT ADOPTED. The word translated “adoption” in the Greek means: son-placement; which has to do with given authority with its rights, privileges and responsibilities not English “adoption”. “Adoption” is a post-denominational etymology. Really! How can we be both “begotten” and “adopted”? And I don’t care which badly translated English verse you want to throw at me!

“Bill, doesn’t the bible say we should pray in the name of Jesus”? Ok, try look, Oi!, listen up, sharpen your pencils! The word “name” means fame: all that a name refers to including the fame, power and authority associated with that name. When we ask in(union with) His name/fame, we are asking in(union with) the name/fame of who and what Jesus is:

Hyper-Literal: (Jesus speaking)And-also which-thing any-thing ever you-all-might-ask-for(aiteO)* in(union with) thee fame of-Me this-thing I-shall(in the future)-be-making(providing) that(purpose) He-might-be-being-glorified* thee Father in thee Son. If-ever any-thing you-all-might-ask-for(aiteO)* in(union with) thee fame of-Me, I-shall(in the future)-be-making(providing). John 14:13-14

In that verse, there is neither a reference to praying(communicating with God) nor how to pray as aiteO is never translated as prayer in the NASB. Nor does Jesus say whom to ask. Although, at the end of the preceding verse He said, “I toward thee Father of-Me I-am-going(middle-passive)”.

To say, “In Jesus name--amen”, is not what is in view here. If the atheists do not like you saying that, then don’t! Why do you make mountains out of molehills(and, why do they?)? We should be asking for things that are in union with Who and what Jesus is in His fame, not giving lip service by merely saying it!

“Bill, shouldn’t we say the “amen”? The Greek word amEn from the Aramaic word amen are both transliterated and not translated as “amen” into the English but means: “SO-BE-IT!” This appears to be optional.

I know that it is long but, I really hope someone enjoyed it. Believe me, it was a lot of work!
 
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ArmyMatt

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Often times I think these quotes come from the fortunate ones who are monks and nuns, and are meant for monks and nuns.

yep, like reading the Ladder. applicable for all, but we must remember who it was written for.
 
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FenderTL5

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I'm not looking to stir up controversy or to encourage anyone to be a maverick, but I received a quote from my "Orthodox quote of the day" that surprised me.

And I've been thinking a lot lately about things like converts adjusting to a prayer rule, especially converts who already had experienced an active prayer life.

I'm interested to discuss this.

PLEASE - what I'm NOT interested in is any non-Orthodox who simply wants to condemn the practice either of regularly scheduled prayers or formal prayers. Scripture mentions "the hour of prayer" and regular prayers through both the Old and New Testaments - it is a well established practice in the history of the people of God. And the book of Psalms IS prayers. Please feel free to make a thread in St. Justin's if you want to debate the practice altogether. Thanks. :)

Ok ... so here's the quote -

"He who at dinner has many different foods eats much and with pleasure, whereas he who uses every day the same food not only eats it without pleasure but sometimes perhaps even feels repelled by it. So it is in our state. In psalmody and prayer do not bind yourself, but do as much as the Lord gives you. Do not abandon reading and interior prayer either. Some of one and some of the other and so you will spend the day pleasing God. Our perfect fathers did not have a fixed rule, but during the course of the whole day they carried out their rule."
St. Barsanuphius the Great
On the Prayer of Jesus 56

Does anyone have particular insight on the context, first?

Comments? Discussion?

I have more to add but just this post is enough to read to start, I'm afraid. :)

Thanks!
The way I understand the quote; do not abandon your set prayers, but do not be compelled to only the set prayers.. as example, a prayer of thanksgiving could be adlib, and in he moment.. you don't have to wait for the next hour and add a read prayer of thanks, although you still could. Don't abandon your rule, but don't be restricted to only the rule.. if that makes sense.
 
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