SALVATION offered by Jesus: COMPLETED and IRREVOCABLE

Status
Not open for further replies.

Marvin Knox

Senior Veteran
May 9, 2014
4,291
1,453
✟84,588.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
Hebrews 6:4-6 is talking about the possibility one could lose their salvation. You just can't change meanings of words around whenever you wish to fit your stance.
I know that no one here would or should base their theology on their experience in life let alone my experience.

None the less I am convinced from experience (as well as scripturally fortunately) that Hebrews 6:4-6 is not talking about truly born again Christians.

"It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace."

I realize that you don't know me at all - but I assure you - in all truth - that I am as saved as you or anyone else in the world can be.

My repentance and conversion was as real as that of Paul the Apostle. Good works followed my conversion as can be rightly expected in a true Christian. I had been truly enlightened, I tasted the heavenly gift, I shared in the same Holy Spirit you, presumably, have in your life. There has been true power in my life as one ruling and reigning with Christ from my seat in the Heavenlies.

But, ashamed to say though I am, I have fallen away in the past and I subjected Christ to shame by my actions. In fact - I even disbelieved in God for quite some time.

But I have been "brought back to repentance" as the Lord says and I am living for Christ just as you are.

I am living testimony that this particular passage cannot apply to Christians.

As I said before though - fortunately there is good scriptural support for eternal security and good scriptural rebuttal for the idea that a person who has once passed from death to life can ever come again into condemnation.

After much participation here in the forum - I am convinced that persons who debate most strongly against eternal security (not necessarily meaning you) are not only ignorant of the basic mechanics of salvation but sorely lacking in a proper understanding of salvation by grace.

I have also become convinced that many in this forum who preach strongly against eternal security are actually preaching a salvation of works.

I would never go out on a limb and pronounce a person "unsaved" simply because his doctrine wasn't correct concerning salvation by grace or in any other way.

But I will say that they don't seem to have cast all their hope on Christ and His sacrifice as their only hope of salvation - in the same way that I have. I wouldn't trade theological places with them for all the gold in all the world.

I know whom I have believed and I am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have entrusted to Him against the day of judgment.

I don't know how anyone can say the same if they don't believe in the eternal security of believers.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Acts2:38

Well-Known Member
Apr 14, 2017
1,593
660
Naples
✟71,708.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I know that no one here would or should base their theology on their experience in life let alone my experience.

None the less I am convinced from experience (as well as scripturally fortunately) that Hebrews 6:4-6 is not talking about truly born again Christians.

"It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace."

I realize that you don't know me at all - but I assure you - in all truth - that I am as saved as you or anyone else in the world can be.

My repentance and conversion was as real as that of Paul the Apostle. Good works followed my conversion as can be rightly expected in a true Christian. I had been truly enlightened, I tasted the heavenly gift, I shared in the same Holy Spirit you, presumably, have in your life. There has been true power in my life as one ruling and reigning with Christ from my seat in the Heavenlies.

But, ashamed to say though I am, I have fallen away in the past and I subjected Christ to shame by my actions. In fact - I even disbelieved in God for quite some time.

But I have been "brought back to repentance" as the Lord says and I am living for Christ just as you are.

I am living testimony that this particular passage cannot apply to Christians.

As I said before though - fortunately there is good scriptural support for eternal security and good scriptural rebuttal for the idea that a person who has once passed from death to life can ever come again into condemnation.

After much participation here in the forum - I am convinced that persons who debate most strongly against eternal security (not necessarily meaning you) are not only ignorant of the basic mechanics of salvation but sorely lacking in a proper understanding of salvation by grace.

I have also become convinced that many in this forum who preach strongly against eternal security are actually preaching a salvation of works.

I would never go out on a limb and pronounce a person "unsaved" simply because his doctrine wasn't correct concerning salvation by grace or in any other way.

But I will say that they don't seem to have cast all their hope on Christ and His sacrifice as their only hope of salvation - in the same way that I have. I wouldn't trade theological places with them for all the gold in all the world.

I know whom I have believed and I am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have entrusted to Him against the day of judgment.

I don't know how anyone can say the same if they don't believe in the eternal security of believers.

Hello and good day.

You are as free as anyone to place your thoughts and we can respectfully discuss this with each other regardless if we know each other.

The examples I will use are as follows:

1- Revelation 2:10 = The audience is members of Christ, Christians. The Lord is talking directly to John to give message to each of the Christians in certain locations/areas.

When someone tells you "be thou faithful even unto death and I will give thee a crown of life", the sentence is indicating "do this AND I will do this".

The sentence has a condition, "be faithful unto death; I give you crown of life". This way of sentence structure automatically implies, "if you are not faith unto death, I will NOT give you the crown of life".

Even though it was a message for those Christians in Symrna it is still a message to ALL Christians. Why should they be told any different and have a different set of standards than us today? The gospel has not changed, neither should this message be misconstrued as something not for us.

2- We all sin, even if you are a Christian, we still do Romans 3:23. The Lord does not hear those who have done evil 1 Peter 3:12 combine with Hebrews 10:26-27. If one has "fallen from grace" Galatians 5:4, then we need our fellow brothers and sisters to help "restore" us Galatians 6:1; 1 Peter 3:12.

People who fall under that category the Hebrews 10:26-27 talk about can still be restored if the repent/turn away (Godly sorrow) otherwise, they have no hope.

3- 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9, need I even add commentary to this? If you are a Christian and you do not obey the gospel, one "shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord". These 2 verses automatically imply loss of salvation.

Example: "If you do not go to work, I will fire you" automatically that implies that if I do go to work, I will not be fired.

4- Demas = Found in Colossians 4:14; Philemon 1:24; 2 Timothy 4:10

You can obviously see that Demas is a "fellowlabourer" aka brother in Christ.

Paul is mentioning all the brothers to greet and accept etc etc in Colossians 4 and Demas is one of them.

In Philemon 1:23-24 Paul again states Demas as one of the 3 brothers of Christ.

Somewhere along the line Demas forsook Paul, Christ, and thereby losing his salvation because he returned to the "world".

5- Galatians 1:6-9, Paul is speaking with people who are already Christians. Yet, Paul is scolding them, people turning away from the gospel. What did Paul then say? Let any who turn away (Christians) and teach a different gospel be accursed. What is the meaning? Loss of salvation. You then come full circle back to what Matthew 7:21-23 and 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 tell us.

I appreciate your time and if I dont speak with you before then, have a wonderful weekend.
 
Upvote 0

justbyfaith

justified sinner
May 19, 2017
3,461
572
51
Southern California
✟3,094.00
Country
United States
Faith
Calvary Chapel
Marital Status
Married
To @Marvin Knox, It is clear from scripture that God promises to cut off those who don't continue in his goodness (Romans 11:20-22), and that eternal security means Perseverance of the Saints, as Calvin taught it, and not Once Saved Always Saved, as his followers picked it up. It is clear from 1 John 2:17 that the one who does the will of God abides for ever, compare 1 John 3:6, and that this is true eternal security. Matthew 7:21-23 and Matthew 13:41-42 show us that commiting iniquity will put you in the furnace of fire; Jesus will say to you, I never knew you. I contend that the redeemed are redeemed by the mercy of God, and this means the washing of regeneration and the renewing of the Holy Ghost. Living a life in freedom from sin must surely follow what is described in Titus 3:3-7.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Acts2:38

Well-Known Member
Apr 14, 2017
1,593
660
Naples
✟71,708.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
To @Marvin Knox, It is clear from scripture that God promises to cut off those who don't continue in his goodness (Romans 11:20-22), and that eternal security means Perseverance of the Saints, as Calvin taught it, and not Once Saved Always Saved, as his followers picked it up. It is clear from 1 John 2:17 that the one who does the will of God abides for ever, compare 1 John 3:6, and that this is true eternal security. Matthew 7:21-23 and Matthew 13:41-42 show us that commiting iniquity will put you in the furnac of fire; Jesus will say to you, I never knew you. I contend that the redeemed are redeemed by the mercy of God, and this means the washing of regeneration and the renewing of the Holy Ghost. Living a life in freedom from sin must surely follow what is described in Titus 3:3-7.

Oh I totally forgot about Roman 11. Nice work.
 
Upvote 0

justbyfaith

justified sinner
May 19, 2017
3,461
572
51
Southern California
✟3,094.00
Country
United States
Faith
Calvary Chapel
Marital Status
Married
It's a rare conversation when everything a person says is wrong.

Restating everything you said would be redundant at best.

It can be good part of good dialog to state that a particular point made by someone is a good point. It's not done as often here as it should be.

None the less - in this particular section of the forum - the discussion usually takes the form of a debate. We attempt to do as the scriptures tell us to do. We correct wrong doctrine and show where it is wrong. Occasionally we even rebuke people who have gone completely off the rails.

How are we to do that if we don't zero in on what we consider to be wrong in the other person's post?

Of course in a debate one side is usually either wrong or at least not as right as the other. That means that each side states his points as if he were right - even if he isn't.

Seldom does the wrong person admit it when he has been shown the error of his reasoning. That's a crying shame in Christian debates IMO. But then we are all sinners aren't we.

All that to say that your wasting everyone's time if you expect them to address the whole of your post each time they respond IMO.
People take my words out of context when they pick them apart like that. Also when I respond, I try to respond to the whole of what a person is saying rather than trying to nitpick particular points. I believe that the whole off a post can be right when certain points are even taken out of context and shown to be wrong. So I prefer to deal with whole concepts rather than rudely trying to pick apart concepts by trying to destroy a post line by line. That is debate mode, and the Bible teaches that debate is of the wrong kind of spirit (Romans 1:29, 2 Corinthians 13:20).
 
Upvote 0

ToBeLoved

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jan 3, 2014
18,705
5,790
✟322,365.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
To @Marvin Knox, It is clear from scripture that God promises to cut off those who don't continue in his goodness (Romans 11:20-22).
If you look at a few other verses right after these you meantime’s it talks about unbelief and I think that these verses are showing the Hebrews that came to Christ from the Old Covenant that belief in Christ is a must be.

I wouldn’t stake that entire half chapter on the translated word ‘goodness’ as you seem to have done or are trying to make a point by doing.

I don’t see how these verses refute OSAS.
 
Upvote 0

ToBeLoved

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jan 3, 2014
18,705
5,790
✟322,365.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
as Calvin taught it, and not Once Saved Always Saved, as his followers picked it up. It is clear from 1 John 2:17 that the one who does the will of God abides for ever,
You are pulling this verse entirely out of context.

We are not being spiritually trained to be habitants of earth, but as future inhabitants of heaven and of course the spiritual lessons and growth we are learning will never pass away, because we will be in God’s Kingdom for eternity, not here on earth.

That is why the Holy Spirit leads us in Truth. God’s Truth.

This to me supports OSAS because God is preparing us for heaven. Jesus told Pilate that His Kingdom is not of this earth, if it had been, His disciples would have fought to keep Him here and not have been crucified.

So unless you have something else or more to add, this doesn’t refute OSAS either.
 
Upvote 0

JLB777

Newbie
Supporter
Jun 18, 2012
5,905
1,258
✟403,811.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
SALVATION offered by Jesus: COMPLETED and IRREVOCABLE!!

God does not take back nor allow man to give back His SALVATION...PAST completed TENSE! (AORIST!)

John 5:24 (all NASB) “Truly, truly, I (Jesus) say to you,
he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, HAS eternal life,
and does not come into judgment, but HAS PASSED out of death into life.

Ephesians 2:4-10
(by grace you HAVE BEEN saved),

Luke 19:1-10...[ Zaccheus Converted ]
9 And Jesus said to him,
“Today salvation has come to this house, because he, too, is a son of Abraham.
10 For the Son of Man "has come" to seek and to save that which was lost.”

Mark 2:17
And hearing this, Jesus said to them,
“It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick;
I did not "come to call" the righteous, but sinners.”

John 3
17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world,
but that the world might "be saved" through Him.
18 He who believes in Him is not judged;
he who does not believe has been judged already,
because he "has not believed" in the name of the ONLY begotten Son of God.

John 6
35 Jesus said to them,
“I am the bread of life;
he who COMES to Me WILL not hunger,
and he who BELIEVES in Me WILL never thirst.
36 But I said to you that you have SEEN Me, and yet do not BELIEVE.
40 For this is the will of My Father,
that everyone who beholds the Son and BELIEVES in Him "WILL (is certain to) have "eternal life"", (now!!)
and I Myself will raise him up "on the last day".”

John 10
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
28 and I "GIVE eternal life to them", and they will never perish;
and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
29 My Father, who HAS GIVEN them to Me, is greater than all;
and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
30 I and the Father are one.” (IN SPIRITUAL ESSENCE AND NATURE!)

John 17:2-3 ...Jesus' High Priestly Prayer to the Father about Jesus' followers
even as You gave Him authority over all flesh,
that to all whom You "have given" Him,
He MAY GIVE "eternal life".
This is "eternal life",
that they MAY KNOW You, the only true God, and
(KNOW) Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

John 1:12,14 (NIV)
Yet to all who "RECEIVED" him,
to those who "BELIEVED" in His name, (Jesus the Christ)
He gave the right to become CHILDREN of God...

QUESTIONS:
1. Can one lose or give back the completed saving work of Jesus the Divine Messiah? If so, copy and paste supporting verses in context.
2. What must one DO to be saved? UNsaved?
3. Does one need to spiritually discern anything further than John 3 as explained in Ephesians 2 to be saved? Romans 10? Acts 16:31?
4. Is Salvation an EVENT?
5. Is Sanctification a PROCESS?


The completed work of salvation occurs at the end of our faith, for those who have kept the faith.


6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 8 whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, 9 receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:6-9


  • receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls.

The hope of salvation is what we have now, in this life, which comes from our faith.

When are saved by faith in Jesus Christ.

Faith is the substance of the thing you are hoping for.

When we receive our salvation in reality, at His coming, we will no longer have faith in Christ for salvation, but the actual salvation of our soul.


so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28


  • He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

We all must first stand before the Judgement seat of Christ, to be Judged according to our deeds.


28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 10:28-29


  • those who have done good, to the resurrection of life,
  • those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.


Paul says it this way -

God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8


  • eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
  • but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,



JLB
 
Upvote 0

ToBeLoved

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jan 3, 2014
18,705
5,790
✟322,365.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
I know that no one here would or should base their theology on their experience in life let alone my experience.

None the less I am convinced from experience (as well as scripturally fortunately) that Hebrews 6:4-6 is not talking about truly born again Christians.

"It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace."

I realize that you don't know me at all - but I assure you - in all truth - that I am as saved as you or anyone else in the world can be.

My repentance and conversion was as real as that of Paul the Apostle. Good works followed my conversion as can be rightly expected in a true Christian. I had been truly enlightened, I tasted the heavenly gift, I shared in the same Holy Spirit you, presumably, have in your life. There has been true power in my life as one ruling and reigning with Christ from my seat in the Heavenlies.

But, ashamed to say though I am, I have fallen away in the past and I subjected Christ to shame by my actions. In fact - I even disbelieved in God for quite some time.

But I have been "brought back to repentance" as the Lord says and I am living for Christ just as you are.

I am living testimony that this particular passage cannot apply to Christians.

As I said before though - fortunately there is good scriptural support for eternal security and good scriptural rebuttal for the idea that a person who has once passed from death to life can ever come again into condemnation.

After much participation here in the forum - I am convinced that persons who debate most strongly against eternal security (not necessarily meaning you) are not only ignorant of the basic mechanics of salvation but sorely lacking in a proper understanding of salvation by grace.

I have also become convinced that many in this forum who preach strongly against eternal security are actually preaching a salvation of works.

I would never go out on a limb and pronounce a person "unsaved" simply because his doctrine wasn't correct concerning salvation by grace or in any other way.

But I will say that they don't seem to have cast all their hope on Christ and His sacrifice as their only hope of salvation - in the same way that I have. I wouldn't trade theological places with them for all the gold in all the world.

I know whom I have believed and I am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have entrusted to Him against the day of judgment.

I don't know how anyone can say the same if they don't believe in the eternal security of believers.
I don’t believe backsliding is the same as falling away as used in this specific verse.

As Jesus Himself has said, if one sheep goes astray, Jesus leaves the rest of the flock and goes and gets that sheep.

Jesus is always calling us back. Again, this is not the same as falling away as used in this verse.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

justbyfaith

justified sinner
May 19, 2017
3,461
572
51
Southern California
✟3,094.00
Country
United States
Faith
Calvary Chapel
Marital Status
Married
Hi, @ToBeLoved,

What I have written is not intended to refute the concept of eternal security, but rather is an attempt to include holiness in the equation. See Hebrews 12:14. I also have not taken anything out of context.
 
Upvote 0

BNR32FAN

He’s a Way of life
Supporter
Aug 11, 2017
22,111
7,243
Dallas
✟873,878.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I would like to politely ask what does it matter? In the end we must keep on believing, loving God, and doing our best to obey His teachings. Whether or not we can lose our salvation is irrelevant. Everyone seems to agree that if someone turns away from God they are not saved. The big debate is was that person truly saved if they turned away? Some believe if someone turns away from God they never believed some believe that a believer can turn away from God. In the end it doesn’t matter if they were a believer who turned from God or a nonbeliever. They still suffer the same fate. I’m really beginning to dislike theology. No offense to anyone but so many of these topics cause many people to stumble and for what? For the understanding of OSAS or OSNAS is not what saves a person. Sometimes it’s just better to say I don’t know and not worry about the how or why and just remember that God gave us His teachings and if we obey them He is a just, fair, and a loving God who will undoubtedly keep His promises. God bless you all who work so hard to deliver His good news!!
 
Upvote 0

justbyfaith

justified sinner
May 19, 2017
3,461
572
51
Southern California
✟3,094.00
Country
United States
Faith
Calvary Chapel
Marital Status
Married
Calvin originally taught etenal security as the Perseverance of the Saints. His followers then took that to mean that "Once Saved, Always Saved" which would mean exactly the same thing if the definition of SAVED were not changed to mean, "I went forward once," or, "I had an experience." The true definition of saved is that you are a saint, a called out and holy one. What Calvin truly taught is that the holiness of God, once placed in the heart, cannot be stripped away. It does not mean you can raise your hand in a church service, live like hell for the rest of your lfe, and then expect Jesus to say, Well done thou good and faithful servant. If you live like hell He is much more likely to say, I never knew you. In fact, workers of iniquity will be cast into the furnace of fire. Matthew 13:41-42. Live like hell and that is where you will go for all of eernity!
 
Upvote 0

FreeGrace2

Senior Veteran
Nov 15, 2012
20,401
1,703
USA
✟184,557.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
To @Marvin Knox, It is clear from scripture that God promises to cut off those who don't continue in his goodness (Romans 11:20-22)
Unless the passage clearly states being "cut off" from salvation, there is no reason to make this assumption.
 
Upvote 0

Acts2:38

Well-Known Member
Apr 14, 2017
1,593
660
Naples
✟71,708.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I would like to politely ask what does it matter? In the end we must keep on believing, loving God, and doing our best to obey His teachings. Whether or not we can lose our salvation is irrelevant. Everyone seems to agree that if someone turns away from God they are not saved. The big debate is was that person truly saved if they turned away? Some believe if someone turns away from God they never believed some believe that a believer can turn away from God. In the end it doesn’t matter if they were a believer who turned from God or a nonbeliever. They still suffer the same fate. I’m really beginning to dislike theology. No offense to anyone but so many of these topics cause many people to stumble and for what? For the understanding of OSAS or OSNAS is not what saves a person. Sometimes it’s just better to say I don’t know and not worry about the how or why and just remember that God gave us His teachings and if we obey them He is a just, fair, and a loving God who will undoubtedly keep His promises. God bless you all who work so hard to deliver His good news!!

This is why it matters

Galatians 1:6-9
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

BNR32FAN

He’s a Way of life
Supporter
Aug 11, 2017
22,111
7,243
Dallas
✟873,878.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Unless the passage clearly states being "cut off" from salvation, there is no reason to make this assumption.

There is the one unforgivable sin which is to sin against the Holy Spirit. Personally I believe it is to die never having accepted Jesus as our Lord and Savior.
 
Upvote 0

FreeGrace2

Senior Veteran
Nov 15, 2012
20,401
1,703
USA
✟184,557.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
The completed work of salvation occurs at the end of our faith, for those who have kept the faith.
Please define 'end of our faith'. What does it mean and WHEN does it occur?

And provide Scripture to support your answers.

6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 8 whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, 9 receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:6-9
The Greek word for "genuineness" is wrongly translated. It means approved. However, if the argument becomes an "unapproved" faith means non-saving faith, please provide Scripture that says so, rather than just a personal opinion.
 
Upvote 0

FreeGrace2

Senior Veteran
Nov 15, 2012
20,401
1,703
USA
✟184,557.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
Calvin originally taught etenal security as the Perseverance of the Saints. His followers then took that to mean that "Once Saved, Always Saved" which would mean exactly the same thing if the definition of SAVED were not changed to mean, "I went forward once," or, "I had an experience." The true definition of saved is that you are a saint, a called out and holy one. What Calvin truly taught is that the holiness of God, once placed in the heart, cannot be stripped away. It does not mean you can raise your hand in a church service, live like hell for the rest of your lfe, and then expect Jesus to say, Well done thou good and faithful servant. If you live like hell He is much more likely to say, I never knew you. In fact, workers of iniquity will be cast into the furnace of fire. Matthew 13:41-42. Live like hell and that is where you will go for all of eernity!
I don't believe anyone has argued from the pov you're pointing out.

I think all in this discussion understand that a "saved" person is a person who has believed in the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation. And as such, they have been forgiven "once for all", they are adopted as sons, they are justified, and they possess the gift of eternal life per John 5;24 and 6:47, and on that basis, of being recipients of eternal life, shall never perish, per John 10:28a.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

FreeGrace2

Senior Veteran
Nov 15, 2012
20,401
1,703
USA
✟184,557.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
There is the one unforgivable sin which is to sin against the Holy Spirit. Personally I believe it is to die never having accepted Jesus as our Lord and Savior.
In the immediate context of that sin, it was Pharisees, who had actually SEEN the miracles of Jesus themselves, and then attributing those miracles to the devil.

That particular sin cannot be committed today since no one is able to see Jesus performing miracles.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.