I've changed my mind.. I'm a pre-tribber again.

Postvieww

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I'm glad you're no longer one of the wicked servants who says "The Lord delays his coming."

I know of no post tribbers who say the Lord is delaying His coming. I believe He will come when He said he would.

Matthew 24:29-31, 2 Thessalonians 2:3

“wicked servants” an unfair charge by you, IMHO.
 
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BABerean2

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Hi. I have gone back to pre-trib again. Why? ... a consensus of opinion.. I read Luke 21 again.. there seem to be signs and I have a general sense that the great tribulation is approaching.
I was toying with preterism, but I think that there are ways to explain how the kingdom came back in the day.. the resurrection and Pentecost, and the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD, Jesus appearing to the apostles...
that doesn't square with the whole of Luke 21.
I have indicated where I think the distinction can be drawn between the 1st century, and 66-70 AD, and the end of the age, after the close of the age of the Gentiles (1967).
I know that there are many post tribbers on the forum, and this might frustrate/annoy, but also perhaps discussion.

Luke 21

5 And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,


6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. (70AD)

7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.

9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.

10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:

11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven. (not 70AD, but the end of the age/world).

12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.

16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolk, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death. (1st

century).

20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. (70AD)

21 Then let them which are in Judea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter there into. (70AD)

22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. (70AD)

23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. (70AD)


24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: (70AD)

and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. (End of the age/world).

25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; (End of the age/world).

26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. (End of the age/world).

27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. (End of the age/world).

28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. (Both - 66-70AD and end of the age/world).

29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;

30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.

31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.

32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. (70 AD again).

33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.

35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. (End of the age/world).

36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. (Both - 66-70AD and end of the age/world).
Your claim that the times of the Gentiles came to an end in 1967 falls apart in Romans 11. It also falls apart in Luke 21:25-28, with the future Second Coming of Christ, which occurs when the time of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

.
 
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Hiscosmicgoldfish3

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Your claim that the times of the Gentiles came to an end in 1967 falls apart in Romans 11. It also falls apart in Luke 21:25-28, with the future Second Coming of Christ, which occurs when the time of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

.
yeah, maybe. .. just being a non-Gentile isn't really the fulfillment .. what Jesus woz talking about, me thinks. I don't go with dispensationalism.. I think it error .. what would be the end of the age of the Gentiles? ... don't know.. perhaps you're right.
 
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PaulCyp1

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You will continue in such confusion until you find the one source Jesus Christ provided for knowing the fullness of truth - the one Church He founded, to which He promised "The Holy Spirit will guide you into all truth", and "Whatsoever you bind upon Earth is bound in Heaven", and "He who hears you hears Me". The one Church which has remained one in belief, one in teaching, one in worship, one in biblical understanding for 2,000 years, while those who have abandoned His one Church have fragmented into thousands of conflicting manmade denominations teaching thousands of conflicting, and therefore false, beliefs, in just a few hundred years. You just can't beat God's plan.
 
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princesstatyanna

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Hi. I have gone back to pre-trib again. Why? ... a consensus of opinion.. I read Luke 21 again.. there seem to be signs and I have a general sense that the great tribulation is approaching.
I was toying with preterism, but I think that there are ways to explain how the kingdom came back in the day.. the resurrection and Pentecost, and the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD, Jesus appearing to the apostles...
that doesn't square with the whole of Luke 21.
I have indicated where I think the distinction can be drawn between the 1st century, and 66-70 AD, and the end of the age, after the close of the age of the Gentiles (1967).
I know that there are many post tribbers on the forum, and this might frustrate/annoy, but also perhaps discussion.

Luke 21

5 And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,


6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. (70AD)

7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.

9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.

10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:

11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven. (not 70AD, but the end of the age/world).

12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.

16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolk, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death. (1st

century).

20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. (70AD)

21 Then let them which are in Judea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter there into. (70AD)

22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. (70AD)

23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. (70AD)


24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: (70AD)

and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. (End of the age/world).

25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; (End of the age/world).

26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. (End of the age/world).

27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. (End of the age/world).

28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. (Both - 66-70AD and end of the age/world).

29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;

30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.

31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.

32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. (70 AD again).

33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.

35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. (End of the age/world).

36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. (Both - 66-70AD and end of the age/world).
i am a pre-tribber and i will always stand by those views
 
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BABerean2

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I don't go with dispensationalism.. I think it error ..

The Pretrib removal of the Church is one of the pillars of the Two Peoples of God doctrine of modern Dispensational Theology.

The old "classic" version of the doctrine claimed that the Church must be removed so that God can go back and deal with Israel under the Old Covenant system during a future 70th week of Daniel.

That doctrine is the true form of "Replacement Theology".



It replaces the one seed, with the many seeds in Galatians 3:16.


It replaces the children of the promise, with the children of the flesh in Romans 9:8.


It replaces the word "so", which is an adverb of manner, with the word "then", which is an adverb of timing in Romans 11:26.


It replaces a Church which began on the Day of Pentecost with about 3,000 Israelites and later included Gentiles, with a Church made up only of Gentiles.


It replaces the "son" as the "heir" to the land in Matthew chapter 21, with those who reject Him as the "chief cornerstone".


It replaces a Gospel only of Grace, with one that includes race.


It ignores the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8.


It replaces the New Covenant of Christ, with a "treaty" broken by an antichrist not found in the chapter, by adding a "gap" of time not mentioned by the angel Gabriel, in Daniel 9:27.


See the links below to understand the origin of the pretrib doctrine.


PROPHETIC DEVELOPMENTS
with particular reference to the early Brethren Movement.
F. Roy Coad (Brethren Historian) pages 10-26
http://brethrenhistory.org/qwicsitePro/php/docsview.php?docid=418


Lacunza, Manuel, “Coming of Messiah in Glory and Majesty“
PDF Files


Origin of the Pretrib Rapture Doctrine
Pastor Tim Warner
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/pretrib_history.pdf


Pretribulationist Revisionism
(Grant Jeffrey’s revision of early Church Posttrib viewpoints)
Pastor Tim Warner
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/Jeffrey.pdf

.
 
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Hiscosmicgoldfish3

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is pre-trib in the word? I think so: Luke 21 - 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
that's fairly clear to me.

It replaces a Gospel only of Grace, with one that includes race.

I know there are a lot of problems with dispensational doctrines - that is one reason why I left such a church some years ago - salvation by race, not grace. Even so, I have been trying to get to the truth of the matter of eschatology, and there seems to be a consensus that pre-trib is true, and what I see as in the future, the pre-trib rapture is just before the Lord returns - so is exceptional as is the tribulation.

The old "classic" version of the doctrine claimed that the Church must be removed so that God can go back and deal with Israel under the Old Covenant system during a future 70th week of Daniel.

imho. people seems to pluck stuff out of Daniel and claim for it various stuff which is very complicated to me - the king of the north is said to be Russia, and was originally about the Seleucid Empire and Antiochus IV.
I think that the idea that God can go back and deal with Israel under the Old
Covenant is utter rubbish. The Old Covenant was done away with by the New.

The Pretrib removal of the Church is one of the pillars of the Two Peoples of God doctrine of modern Dispensational Theology.

imo. the church is removed from the earth, as the tribulation is exceptional. It is not to usher in a new dispensation of Jews, and is not according to Daniel/Antichrist/7 years/Temple or any of that.

35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. End of the age/world -
definitely not talking about Judea in 70 AD.

36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
 
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Blade

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A...ok. Well there is no PRE MID or POST tribulation in the word. If it was we would not be talking now. If JESUS (not some man/woman telling us what the BIBLE/JESUS really said) says Jesus left and would come back and get us and gave no time.. then ME.. I live each MOMENT as if THIS is it.. praise GOD.

Now.. as for some that say "no record of it" or list some 1935 or something like that. Forgive me but have not searched. I have.. I read found read scrolls of a man that wrote Hymns and preached in about 300-400ad. I read it.. about CAUGHT UP.. JESUS COMING TO GET US! And then more before 300ad.

They lived as if Jesus was coming any moment. Please.. if you were walking this man that WOW did things NO MAN could do. That everything He ever said happen..then one night says to you looking in your eyes.. "I am going back to my Fathers house to make you a home. So where I am you will be. If this was not true I would tell you. WHERE I go you know..how I go you know"... things like this. They dies.. they rises PRAISE GOD GLORY TO JESUS. You then watch Him rise up in the clouds.. then hear two angels say..why look up? He will come back the same way.

So right then.. WHEN would you be expecting Him? DUH.. any moment. Yet we know now Israel had to be BACK in their land.. and are and are blooming. I am not PRE MID or POST. I cant find that. It would SEEM as I read it.. look like before.. but if its not written.. then I just follow believe what JESUS said.. not what some man tells me how he reads it and then trys to say ITS FACT!

Jesus is coming.. be ready NOW and you will never miss Him. Since also I cant find where I was promised tomorrow
 
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BABerean2

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is pre-trib in the word? I think so: Luke 21 - 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
that's fairly clear to me.

Go back to the time of the American Revolutionary War and look at some of the thousands of pages of commentaries and sermons written during that time period and come back and tell us how many of those old time preachers agree with you.

Did you look at any of the links I gave you on the recent history of the doctrine?


.
 
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Hi. I have gone back to pre-trib again. Why? ... a consensus of opinion.. I read Luke 21 again.. there seem to be signs and I have a general sense that the great tribulation is approaching.
I was toying with preterism, but I think that there are ways to explain how the kingdom came back in the day.. the resurrection and Pentecost, and the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD, Jesus appearing to the apostles...
that doesn't square with the whole of Luke 21.
I have indicated where I think the distinction can be drawn between the 1st century, and 66-70 AD, and the end of the age, after the close of the age of the Gentiles (1967).
I know that there are many post tribbers on the forum, and this might frustrate/annoy, but also perhaps discussion.

Luke 21

5 And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,


6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. (70AD)

7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.

9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.

10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:

11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven. (not 70AD, but the end of the age/world).

12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.

16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolk, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death. (1st

century).

20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. (70AD)

21 Then let them which are in Judea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter there into. (70AD)

22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. (70AD)

23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. (70AD)


24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: (70AD)

and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. (End of the age/world).

25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; (End of the age/world).

26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. (End of the age/world).

27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. (End of the age/world).

28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. (Both - 66-70AD and end of the age/world).

29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;

30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.

31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.

32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. (70 AD again).

33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.

35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. (End of the age/world).

36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. (Both - 66-70AD and end of the age/world).

I am glad you changed your mind, brother. For there is going to be a Pre-Tribulation Rapture. The Bible is very clear on this.

Pre-Trib Rapture.

versus the...

Gathering of Elect Before Christ's Second Coming.

Then there are the clues or breadcrumbs of the Pre-Trib Rapture, too.

Pre-Trib Rapture is paralleled in Genesis and Revelation.

Those who say the Lord is delaying His Coming.

Comparing the Trumpet of Blessing vs. the Trumpet of Judgment.

Knowing the Timing of Period Called "Wrath" and Realizing We are not Appointed Unto "Wrath."

For one has to realize that the Pre-Trib Rapture is the only position where a person has the most to lose.

Those who say everything has been fulfilled already have not truly believed Revelation at face value. For anyone who is honest with themselves in reading it will see that none of the major things in Revelation have happened yet.

Mid Trib view is false because you have a population problem with the Anti-Christ killing the saints during this time.

Post Trib view is false because we are not appointed unto Wrath.

Saying there is no Rapture means that one has not read any Rapture verses in Scripture with an open mind.
 
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BABerean2

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I am glad you changed your mind, brother. For there is going to be a Pre-Tribulation Rapture. The Bible is very clear on this.



PROPHETIC DEVELOPMENTS
with particular reference to the early Brethren Movement.
F. Roy Coad (Brethren Historian) pages 10-26
http://brethrenhistory.org/qwicsitePro/php/docsview.php?docid=418


Lacunza, Manuel, “Coming of Messiah in Glory and Majesty“
PDF Files


Origin of the Pretrib Rapture Doctrine
Pastor Tim Warner
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/pretrib_history.pdf


Pretribulationist Revisionism
(Grant Jeffrey’s revision of early Church Posttrib viewpoints)
Pastor Tim Warner
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/Jeffrey.pdf

.
 
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PROPHETIC DEVELOPMENTS
with particular reference to the early Brethren Movement.
F. Roy Coad (Brethren Historian) pages 10-26
http://brethrenhistory.org/qwicsitePro/php/docsview.php?docid=418


Lacunza, Manuel, “Coming of Messiah in Glory and Majesty“
PDF Files


Origin of the Pretrib Rapture Doctrine
Pastor Tim Warner
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/pretrib_history.pdf


Pretribulationist Revisionism
(Grant Jeffrey’s revision of early Church Posttrib viewpoints)
Pastor Tim Warner
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/Jeffrey.pdf

.

History is written by men.
Men can lie.
So your point on supposed reports on what certain men of God believed on the Rapture doesn’t prove anything.

If the Rapture didn’t happen and the ant-Christ appeared in a Jewish temple built overnight in Isreal overnight and he was doing crazy evil stuff there, it is not going to effect my faith in Christ. So I fail to see how your saying the Pre-Trib belief can deceive me in such a way that would effect my faith. Maybe a new believer who just accepted Christ and is weak in the faith might be effected, but most Christians who truly know the Lord and His Word are not going to lose their faith. The Pre-Trib position is actually the only position whereby you have the most to lose by not believing in it.

It is also the only position that encourages you to live more holy, as well.
 
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seventysevens

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the true form of "Replacement Theology".
.
The true form of Replacement Theology is when it is taught to ignore the promise that God gave to His chosen people and simply blend all together to make it appear that there never was a promise of God
Gentile Christians have Not replaced the promise of God to Abraham Gentile Christians are the branch that is grafted into the original standing tree - but Replacement Theology seeks to call the original a counterfeit
 
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BABerean2

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The true form of Replacement Theology is when it is taught to ignore the promise that God gave to His chosen people and simply blend all together to make it appear that there never was a promise of God
Gentile Christians have Not replaced the promise of God to Abraham Gentile Christians are the branch that is grafted into the original standing tree - but Replacement Theology seeks to call the original a counterfeit

On the Day of Pentecost Peter addressed the crowd as "all the house of Israel" in Acts 2:36.
On that day about 3,000 Israelites accepted the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34.

Paul still considered himself an Israelite after his conversion in Romans 11:1.

The Gentiles were grafted into the Israelite church several years after Pentecost.

The Church as a whole has never been a "Gentile Church".

You are attempting to replace a Church made up of all races of people, with one made up only of Gentiles.
You are doing this in an attempt to make your Two Peoples of God doctrine work.



1Ti_1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.

Tit_3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.


.
 
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seventysevens

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The Church as a whole has never been a "Gentile Church".

You are attempting to replace a Church made up of all races of people, with one made up only of Gentiles.
You are doing this in an attempt to make your Two Peoples of God doctrine work.

Your flawed interpretation of what you read is obvious
I never said nor hinted at a whole church being Gentile , it is your replacement theology that wants to remove the promises that God made to the Jewish people , trying to blend it in like milk into oil to make something else
The OT covenant command that God made the sabbath day and those sabbath days will always be Gods Sabbath regardless of what you say or teach - it is what the Lord God says it is and will remain that way for eternity - even though it is stated that is is just fine to worship the Lord God on any day you choose whether it be Saturday , Sunday or any other day and the Lord will be pleased with that - it does not say that the sabbath day has changed
The simple fact that you keep denying that there are 2 peoples is proof of your fabricated teachings; as it is Jews and Gentiles together make the Church - you are blinded and cannot see or understand why the place Jesus will return is Israel , you don't understand why Israel is the place where Armageddon will take place - you don't understand why God has declared he will bring the armies of the northern parts above Israel down to attack Israel(because they still reject Jesus ) much you refuse to acknowledge in your attempt to replace Israel and the Jews
 
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jgr

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But it is not a "Jewish Church", either. It is an "in Christ Church".
Absolutely true. So why are there those who still insist on maintaining a distinction between the Jews and the Church?

If you're in Christ, you're in His Church. If you're not, your're not.

Those are the only distinctions that He recognizes.
 
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jgr

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I never said nor hinted at a whole church being Gentile , it is your replacement theology that wants to remove the promises that God made to the Jewish people , trying to blend it in like milk into oil to make something else

Here's who God made His promises to:

2 Corinthians 1
19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea.
20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

Galatians 3:16
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
 
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Hiscosmicgoldfish3

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Did you look at any of the links I gave you on the recent history of the doctrine?


.

I had a look at one of the links. And I still think there will be a pre-trib rapture, (and who's to say that Margaret McDonald was wrong?).

Why do so many people believe in it? How can you refute Luke 21?
 
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Hank77

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But it is not a "Jewish Church", either. It is an "in Christ Church".
I agree with you. Consider.....

Job 19:24 That they were graven with an iron pen and lead in the rock for ever!
Job 19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
Job 19:26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

Was Job, inspired by the Holy Spirit, prophesying about the coming of the Messiah? Isaiah, David, and others did. They believed the prophesies and waited for Him to come.

Would they be included in the Body of Christ? Why or why not?
I believe they are.

Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
Rom 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
 
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