Lucifer is not the Devil

jerry kelso

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Hey guys. Can I just say how sorry I feel for @Jude1:3Contendforthefaith and others who already explained the Biblical and historical view of satan. I have nothing more to add.

If you guys spent half as much effort on studying the Gospel as you do on notions regarding Lucifer and fallen angels, you'd do well.

daniel9v9,

1. Contending for the faith is biblical just like the the gospel.
Wrong doctrine such as Mormons who believe that Jesus and Lucifer are Brothers is very important.

2. God gave the whole Bible to rightly divide the word and understand for a reason and purpose.

3. Do you know what the true gospel is?
Can you elaborate on your being sorry for those who contend for the faith on such passages of the Bible? Let me know. Jerry kelso
 
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Daniel9v9

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daniel9v9,

1. Contending for the faith is biblical just like the the gospel.
Wrong doctrine such as Mormons who believe that Jesus and Lucifer are Brothers is very important.

2. God gave the whole Bible to rightly divide the word and understand for a reason and purpose.

3. Do you know what the true gospel is?
Can you elaborate on your being sorry for those who contend for the faith on such passages of the Bible? Let me know. Jerry kelso

Sorry, I realize my post is easily misunderstood. To clarify:
I agree with you. I feel sorry for those who already have aptly defended the Christian faith, because what they have written appears to have gone largely ignored in this thread, in favour of confusion and speculation.

What I'm saying is that, while it's certainly good to contend for the faith, people (not you) shouldn't be obsessed with unfruitful studies like demonologies and strange controversies. In a word, if our goal from the outset is to convict and illustrate that Lucifer isn't satan, it's already a useless debate, for it not only shows ignorance when it comes to Scripture, but it also reveals an unhealthy passion for controversies.

I hope that makes sense.
 
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chad kincham

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David7818

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Me too - from the Bible in Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28

And of course from a more modern day prophet - who heard directly from God (the Holy Spirit) on this subject.



True. He did. At one time he was pure and holy... perhaps among the highest order of created beings in the entire universe. Sadly ... he blew all of that.


God has not poured out the second death judgment on any of the fallen angels - including Lucifer (now called Satan) - but Rev 20 and Matthew 25 both say that he will some day... and Satan knows it.

One of the big reasons that Satan and his angels are mad at mankind -- is that to mankind is offered the Gospel -- but not to fallen angels. They simply go to hell in the end.

Trying to find salvation through more fellowship with those fallen angels (demons) would be like a Jew in WWII going to Hitler ask about his "roots" in Judaism and history. That would be very "short sighted" of the Jew in question who would think to do such a thing.
So the fallen angels don't get the gospel.... hm... don' tthey have God and his kingdom though... Lucifer's angels do... the fallen angels have this world..... Some fallen angels aren't so bad and I can say they can preach very good and have high intelligences and opinions. It's just to take things out on children isn't good, you could always enjoy life. I don't think Satan and his angels or dark angels stole Lucifer's or God's angels, but I do believe all should have their own angels, and that God is good, I just don't really don't want to do anything to the people who have helped me or that I care about, but I like awesome things and hip and sick things it's just nobody should bow down to nobody.....
 
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David7818

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David7818,

1. What book did you learn Lucifer had the hardest test?


2. What book told you that the first death of an archangel was over a love of a lover angel?

3. Who told you that Lucifer was separate from Satan and that if he was separate he had angels?

4. Who told you that Lucifer and his angels would not be thrown into the lake of fire?

I just know these things.... being wise isn't a bad thing.
5. Who said that Lucifer was to train God’s army and why?
Because it was good for him, it's literally all he had....

6. Sin has power on sinners and Christians too if they allow it to be a stronghold in their lives.
I was picked on and it held me back in some ways but as a Christian we are to overcome all things.

I know, I learned. You have to fight... Bu to lean on God and Christ is good... to be a man or strong also is.

7. There is a difference between judgement and being judge mental.

Okay. I agree.
There is a difference between legalism and holiness living.
Yes, it can be good, but some folk need that balance between things, they're just not too bad or good.
Paul told Christians to judge all spiritual things.

Good advice.
Jesus said, judges not lest you be judged to the hypocrisy of the Jewish leaders.
Because of pride of respect of persons one can be judge mental.
One has to have the right knowledge and wisdom carries it through.


I wholly agree. Some elders of the church are wrong too..... some Jews have the light, that's something.
I know you are young, but I don’t hold it against you for I was young once.
But until you believe the Bible is the inerrant word of God and not other books that disagree with the word of God you will be hitting and missing and thinking you have truth when you don’t.

8. The subject was about wrong doctrine about Lucifer, Satan, God , etc.
The only reason I said you are not a Christian is not to discourage you, but one cannot serve God and Satan at the same time. Placing them on the same side is a blasphemous statement because it is contrary to the word of God.


9. Who told you that that there was another God who is the Father to the devil?
Good Fallen Angels. I hink some fallen angels can be good... on either side. They have high intelligences and know who they are. You should just not do things tooo bad. Hell is real. Either God or the Devil created it, but all life matters.

10. Satan and his demonic forces have already been judged and that is why that hell was prepared for them.

No, heaven was made and the darkness. Isn't hell made by Devils? They should have their integrity as well, as well as demons and youth.

11. Demons who possess men are demonic spirits and long to inhabit a body. They are linked to Satan and his agenda and Jesus cast them out. Read Matthew 10 and the KoH message to the Jews about Jesus giving them power to cast them out.
Jude 1:6 talks about the angels who left their first estate and was bound in everlasting chains.
These were good angels that went bad.

12. The archangels such as Michael and Gabriel are good.
Bad angels have no good qualities.
Some may..... That could be just opinion... I do know one thing... the little guy needs hope too.
13. There is no record of angels going rogue on God today. Instead they marvel at the human race and the grace of God.
Good. So do I, but I judge not some fallen angels and devils, good or lost, so I be not judged. But to be good is okay. To have a balance is right, and to be saved is good. Some lost aren't really lost.

14. The beliefs you expose are cultish beliefs not Christian beliefs of the Bible.
Now if you want help you have to be honest with me to have an honest dialogue.
Who are your teachers and why do you believe them instead of the Bible concerning these extreme beliefs?
I am concerned about your soul, otherwise I would not still be conversing with you.
Honest dialogue is the only way understand where you are truly coming from. Jerry Kelso
Good people who teach and instruct with good truth mixed with a balance of good and bad, but they are not bad people. God's book is good, but lies mixed with truth..... anyways, some fallen angels aren't fallen, and some devils aren't, they are men and have buddies.
 
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David7818

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We can also put it into a category.
Good -or-
Evil.

I wouldn't categorize Lucifer, Satan, the Devil, Beelzebub...etc as good.
Could some fallen angels regain their former glory and stand with young people?
 
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David7818

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Could some fallen angels regain their former glory and stand with young people?
And should Lucifer and Jesus remain good or find their former glory or something if needed to not literally get thrown into the lake of fire?
 
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David7818

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And should Lucifer and Jesus remain good or find their former glory or something if needed to not literally get thrown into the lake of fire?
I mean, if they had help along the way so they be not killed and certain schemes against them by certain.....
 
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Mark51

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The Evil One put that idea in people's heads.

Bible Gateway passage: Isaiah 14:12-17 - New King James Version

The verse says nothing about Lucifer being the devil.

And it contradicts what we know of the devil, one of which is that the very name simply means "Day Star" -- which Satan most certainly is not.


I agree. Furthermore, Isaiah 14:4-12 is part of a prophecy that refers to a future event to befall a Babylonian king: Nebuchadnezzar.

Satan, as the god of this system we live in, uses nations and apostate religions as instruments to accomplish his ambitions. (2 Corinthians 4:4; 1 John 5:19) This is symbolically illustrated at Revelations 13:1, 2; 17:9-11. Babylon, as the third world power of seven, is represented by one of the heads of the first “wild beast”-of which gets its authority from Satan. Compare/reference Daniel 2:31-43; 7:1-8; 8:1-25.

This king, instilled by Satan, held the belief and arrogance that he would have complete dominion over the earth. Thus, he lifted himself up in his own heart and was in his own eyes and in the eyes of his admirers a “shining one” a “son of the dawn.” Compare Daniel 3:1-7

The phrase “have fallen from heaven,” in this context, is not literal but is symbolic to governments or to ruling powers that have exalted or lifted themselves up above their subjects. This was represented in Nebuchadnezzar’s dream by a symbolic tree with its height “reaching to heaven.”-Daniel 4:20-22.
 
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jerry kelso

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And should Lucifer and Jesus remain good or find their former glory or something if needed to not literally get thrown into the lake of fire?

David 7818,

1. Lucifer can not find his former glory ever.

2. Jesus regained the glory with the father in John 17. The context is not what you think. Matthew 28:18, Jesus was given all authority in Heaven and Earth and is the Savior of all the earth and has never or can never go to the lake of fire.

3. Lucifer is Satan and always have been bound for the lake of fire for it was prepared for him and his angels.
Read and believe your Bible. Jerry Kelso
 
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David7818

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You asked me who said Lucifer had the hardest test.... it think what was said was that Lucifer had the hardest test.... bad teachers would say he had the hardest test ever right there..... you may have thought that. Just wanted to clarify.
 
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David7818

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David 7818,

1. Lucifer can not find his former glory ever.

2. Jesus regained the glory with the father in John 17. The context is not what you think. Matthew 28:18, Jesus was given all authority in Heaven and Earth and is the Savior of all the earth and has never or can never go to the lake of fire.

3. Lucifer is Satan and always have been bound for the lake of fire for it was prepared for him and his angels.
Read and believe your Bible. Jerry Kelso
God should be more moral than to use the lake of fire to kill saved demons devils and Satan and the youth. The bible can't convince me that's right. As for fallen archangels.. wars wil be fought, and things will happen. I wish Jesus and the youth luck.... Not all people have t be the same.
 
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David7818

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God should be more moral than to use the lake of fire to kill saved demons devils and Satan and the youth. The bible can't convince me that's right. As for fallen archangels.. wars wil be fought, and things will happen. I wish Jesus and the youth luck.... Not all people have t be the same.
Starting people off in the ligh then damning them later..... is the scriptural or Bible support against his? Master JC is a good king. There's quite a bit that can make you a man. People fight because they want to live, it's dumb to be damned because there's no moral law. The people that can fight will and they may win. It's not just God's "law", it's being a man.
 
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David7818

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God should be more moral than to use the lake of fire to kill saved demons devils and Satan and the youth. The bible can't convince me that's right. As for fallen archangels.. wars wil be fought, and things will happen. I wish Jesus and the youth luck.... Not all people have t be the same.
Luck to all angels.
 
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David7818

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You asked me who said Lucifer had the hardest test.... it think what was said was that Lucifer had the hardest test.... bad teachers would say he had the hardest test ever right there..... you may have thought that. Just wanted to clarify.
Not saying it's your actual thoughts.
 
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David7818

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I agree. Furthermore, Isaiah 14:4-12 is part of a prophecy that refers to a future event to befall a Babylonian king: Nebuchadnezzar.

Satan, as the god of this system we live in, uses nations and apostate religions as instruments to accomplish his ambitions. (2 Corinthians 4:4; 1 John 5:19) This is symbolically illustrated at Revelations 13:1, 2; 17:9-11. Babylon, as the third world power of seven, is represented by one of the heads of the first “wild beast”-of which gets its authority from Satan. Compare/reference Daniel 2:31-43; 7:1-8; 8:1-25.

This king, instilled by Satan, held the belief and arrogance that he would have complete dominion over the earth. Thus, he lifted himself up in his own heart and was in his own eyes and in the eyes of his admirers a “shining one” a “son of the dawn.” Compare Daniel 3:1-7

The phrase “have fallen from heaven,” in this context, is not literal but is symbolic to governments or to ruling powers that have exalted or lifted themselves up above their subjects. This was represented in Nebuchadnezzar’s dream by a symbolic tree with its height “reaching to heaven.”-Daniel 4:20-22.
Well is heaven reliable ofr those there? Can't saved heavenly folk have their lives and freedom? Know what I mean?
 
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