How many "first" resurrections are there?

seventysevens

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there will be more than just martyrs

Scriptures I thought of quickly - though as with other relative matters context is key
Like Jesus said he was God - but not worded in exactly those words

Zech 14
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

Matt 24

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Jude 14
14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
 
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1stcenturylady

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there will be more than just martyrs

Scriptures I thought of quickly - though as with other relative matters context is key
Like Jesus said he was God - but not worded in exactly those words

Zech 14
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

Matt 24

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Jude 14
14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

Just a quickie. ten thousands of his saints refers to angels in both the Book of Enoch and Matthew 24.
 
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seventysevens

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Just a quickie. ten thousands of his saints refers to angels in both the Book of Enoch and Matthew 24.
Saints are those believers in Christ in nearly all passages
Context is very important
as an example if someone says --

do you want to pull this blunt down to ashes ?

You must know the context - without it you will not know what they are talking about as a Websters dictionary will not be helpful
 
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1stcenturylady

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Saints are those believers in Christ in nearly all passages
Context is very important
as an example if someone says --

do you want to pull this blunt down to ashes ?

You must know the context - without it you will not know what they are talking about as a Websters dictionary will not be helpful

Well, I'm up again. I keep reading, but not sleepy yet.

Yes, context is essential. Just one question. If the saints are Christians coming back with Christ, what need is there of a resurrection? They will already have their glorified bodies.
 
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seventysevens

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Well, I'm up again. I keep reading, but not sleepy yet.

Yes, context is essential. Just one question. If the saints are Christians coming back with Christ, what need is there of a resurrection? They will already have their glorified bodies.
I am not sure there is a clear answer for that as it falls into interpretation , It may be that the old body will be resurrected and made new into the glorified body - if not then what ? Why would it say the dead in Christ rise first if they are already in heaven with their new body
And since Jesus died and rose for all of us why would any true believer not be included in the "reign with Christ" when Jesus kingdom on earth - in all His bride why would he say some should not be resurrected along with the rest ? that would be favoritism and Jesus does not do that - it makes more sense for all the Bride of Christ to resurrect and reign with the Bridegroom
 
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1stcenturylady

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I am sure there is a clear answer for that as it falls into interpretation , It may be that the old body will be resurrected and made new into the glorified body - if not then what ? Why would it say the dead in Christ rise first if they are already in heaven with their new body
And since Jesus died and rose for all of us why would any true believer not be included in the "reign with Christ" when Jesus kingdom on earth - in all His bride why would he say some should not be resurrected along with the rest ? that would be favoritism and Jesus does not do that - it makes more sense for all the Bride of Christ to resurrect and reign with the Bridegroom

I see our spirit as invisible and outside space and time. Scripture says to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord, so our spirit does go to the Father. (the unsaved to outer darkness) But at the resurrection, the spirit is reunited with the body and the body puts on immortality and changes. We don't come back and are seen before like the angels and Jesus will be. At least, I don't read it that way.
 
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Douggg

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When I read the passage, it seems that only martyrs will reign with Christ for the 1000 years. All other Christians and unbelievers will be resurrected in the second resurrection when the books are opened to see if their name is there or not. If there name is not in the book of life, they will be judged. How do you read it?
I the way I read it is the martyred Great Tribulation saints will rule with Jesus the thousand years. But I don't read it to mean "only" those saints will rule with Jesus the thousand years, since Jesus returns with His saints in Zechariah 14:3 and Jude 1:14 which is quoting Enoch.

5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

Which in turn would seem to indicate a major resurrection takes place before Jesus returns.

_______________________________________________________________________

Assuming that major resurrection is to be the rapture/resurrection of 1Thessalonians4:13-18 are the saints returning with Jesus, and then the martyred tribulation saints are resurrected at the beginning of the millennium in Revelation 20 - then, at the end of the millennium, the remainder of all other Christians, and them who would have accepted Christ had they heard the gospel during their life's, and all of the unsaved who had rejected Christ during their life will be resurrected and appear before the Great White Throne judgement for either eternal life or the other consequence.

___________________________________________________________

Which to me, looking forward, there will be three resurrections on a major scale (the two witnesses, I see as a special case of two persons).

In order....

1. the resurrection/rapture of the 1Thessalonians4:13-18 saints (which is the optimal to be part of).

2. the resurrection of the martyred Great Tribulation saints at the beginning of the millennium.

3. the resurrection of everyone else for the Great White Throne judgement at the end of the millennium.

____________________________________________________________

There is the issue of the old testament righteous such as the prophets, and persons like Abraham. I believe those persons received the gospel when Jesus went into the place of the dead and preached to them there, and their souls went to heaven. And they will take part in the resurrection/rapture of 1Thessalonians4:13-18 saints.

Part of my rationale is in Daniel 12:13, Daniel was told...
13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.
 
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BABerean2

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Well, I DO see verse 20:4 as all martyrs, including the apostles, and every martyr throughout church history. But I see the rest of us as being in the resurrection after the millennium. That's just the way I read it, unless, someone can point out something I'm not seeing.

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.


Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

The time of the judgment of the dead occurs right after the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible. It is the time when the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of God and Christ "forever".

The same event is found at the end of Revelation chapter 20.

In 2 Thessalonians chapter 1 Christ returns in "flaming fire".
The fire comes at the end of Revelation chapter 20.
The judgment of the dead is at the end of Revelation chapter 20.

The Book of Revelation is not in chronological order.

Revelation 11:15-18 and Revelation 20:9-15 occur at the same time.


.
 
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1stcenturylady

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You need to compare the greek version and english translation of those "first resurrection" in both verses and solve it yourself.

It says it is the first rising again.
 
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DamianWarS

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There have been nine people resurrected in the bible. Three in the Tanach and six in the New Testament.....
have these nine all been resurrected with incorruptible bodies? I think Jesus is the only one.
 
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DavidPT

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That's just the way I read it, unless, someone can point out something I'm not seeing.

I can point out plenty that I feel you are not seeing, based on the conclusions you are coming to. Doesn't mean you might agree with me though. Unfortunately the following turned out lengthier than I was hoping, and that I realize some people are sometimes turned off by lengthy posts. I know I am at times. So if you don't care to read through all of this, I understand.

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


This verse says----on such the second death hath no power. That is not said of anyone that is raised in the 2nd resurrection. The obvious conclusion seems to be, those who are raised in the 2nd resurrection, the 2nd death has power over them, otherwise they would have had part in the first resurrection instead.

John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

2 resurrections in view here. A---the resurrection of life. B----the resurrection of damnation

Acts 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

2 resurrections in view here as well. A----resurrection of the just. B----resurrection of the unjust.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5-----This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


The above, the first resurrection is meaning A, the resurrection of life, the resurrection of the just.

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished------

The above, the second resurrection is meaning B, the resurrection of damnation, the resurrection of the unjust.

That is referring to the great white throne judgment per Revelation 20:11-15.

And speaking of that judgment, let's take a look at the verses involved, but first let's take a look at the following.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.


Let's start with this---even so in Christ shall all be made alive. Who is that referring to in context? afterward they that are Christ's at his coming---this for one. Who in the above passages would be meaning those at His coming? The following would be whom it is meaning---the dead in Christ who shall rise first----Then we which are alive and remain.

What happens to both groups once Christ comes? we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Obviously that equals this----even so in Christ shall all be made alive----where in this context it is meaning changed from corruptible to incorruptible, which is the same as this mortal putting on immortality. Even those who remain and are still alive when Christ comes, has to also be changed, the fact they are still mortals until they, too, put on immortality at the last trump.

Now let's go back to Revelation 20.

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

No one but the dead at this judgment, obviously referring to the rest of the dead per Revelation 20:5. IOW, anyone that was not made alive at Christ's coming. No one made alive at Christ's coming could possibly be included in this judgment since that contradicts who all are at this judgment, meaning the dead.
 
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GUANO

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The first resurrection is for _ALL_ of Christ's people. His Body.

The second resurrection is for EVERYONE ELSE. The judgements are based on WORKS and they are presided over by Christ and his Saints. The names must be in the Book of Life.

The Bible never says that all sin is extinguished or that everyone is sent to hell... It clearly depicts the new heaven and new earth with a kingdom/city for the saints, and outside the city the rest of the nations exist again and waters (doctrine) flow out of the city and heal the nations of the world...
 
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1stcenturylady

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I can point out plenty that I feel you are not seeing, based on the conclusions you are coming to. Doesn't mean you might agree with me though. Unfortunately the following turned out lengthier than I was hoping, and that I realize some people are sometimes turned off by lengthy posts. I know I am at times. So if you don't care to read through all of this, I understand.

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


This verse says----on such the second death hath no power. That is not said of anyone that is raised in the 2nd resurrection. The obvious conclusion seems to be, those who are raised in the 2nd resurrection, the 2nd death has power over them, otherwise they would have had part in the first resurrection instead.

John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

2 resurrections in view here. A---the resurrection of life. B----the resurrection of damnation

Acts 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

2 resurrections in view here as well. A----resurrection of the just. B----resurrection of the unjust.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5-----This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


The above, the first resurrection is meaning A, the resurrection of life, the resurrection of the just.

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished------

The above, the second resurrection is meaning B, the resurrection of damnation, the resurrection of the unjust.

That is referring to the great white throne judgment per Revelation 20:11-15.

And speaking of that judgment, let's take a look at the verses involved, but first let's take a look at the following.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.


Let's start with this---even so in Christ shall all be made alive. Who is that referring to in context? afterward they that are Christ's at his coming---this for one. Who in the above passages would be meaning those at His coming? The following would be whom it is meaning---the dead in Christ who shall rise first----Then we which are alive and remain.

What happens to both groups once Christ comes? we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Obviously that equals this----even so in Christ shall all be made alive----where in this context it is meaning changed from corruptible to incorruptible, which is the same as this mortal putting on immortality. Even those who remain and are still alive when Christ comes, has to also be changed, the fact they are still mortals until they, too, put on immortality at the last trump.

Now let's go back to Revelation 20.

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

No one but the dead at this judgment, obviously referring to the rest of the dead per Revelation 20:5. IOW, anyone that was not made alive at Christ's coming. No one made alive at Christ's coming could possibly be included in this judgment since that contradicts who all are at this judgment, meaning the dead.

I read up to here and this is the first place I came to a different conclusion.

This verse says----on such the second death hath no power. That is not said of anyone that is raised in the 2nd resurrection. The obvious conclusion seems to be, those who are raised in the 2nd resurrection, the 2nd death has power over them, otherwise they would have had part in the first resurrection instead.

To me it is not a "given"

15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
 
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Douggg

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have these nine all been resurrected with incorruptible bodies? I think Jesus is the only one.
I don't think any of those nine were resurrected into their eternal incorruptible bodies.
 
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DavidPT

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I read up to here and this is the first place I came to a different conclusion.

This verse says----on such the second death hath no power. That is not said of anyone that is raised in the 2nd resurrection. The obvious conclusion seems to be, those who are raised in the 2nd resurrection, the 2nd death has power over them, otherwise they would have had part in the first resurrection instead.

To me it is not a "given"

15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

Maybe the reason the book of life is at that judgement and opened, is not because anyone at that judgment will be found to be written in it, but instead, because it is book of records, thus indicating none of their names shall be found written in it. What about the fact that the text indicates it is the dead at this judgement? How could anyone who has put on immortality at the last trump possibly be still considered of the dead? How does that make sense? And since the rapture happens after the tribulation, and that the first resurrection occurs at that time, how can this not involve every single person who are part of the church, thus meaning the saved? My position is, all of the saved, even saints from the OT, will be included in the dead in Christ who shall rise first.

Luke 13:25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:
26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.

The timing of these events obviously involve the 2nd coming. Verse 25, for one, proves that. Verse 28 and 29 have to also be fulfilled at this time. But how can these verses be fulfilled unless Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, also rise with the dead in Christ which shall rise first?
 
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1stcenturylady

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Maybe the reason the book of life is at that judgement and opened, is not because anyone at that judgment will be found to be written in it, but instead, because it is book of records, thus indicating none of their names shall be found written in it. What about the fact that the text indicates it is the dead at this judgement? How could anyone who has put on immortality at the last trump possibly be still considered of the dead? How does that make sense? And since the rapture happens after the tribulation, and that the first resurrection occurs at that time, how can this not involve every single person who are part of the church, thus meaning the saved? My position is, all of the saved, even saints from the OT, will be included in the dead in Christ who shall rise first.

Luke 13:25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:
26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.

The timing of these events obviously involve the 2nd coming. Verse 25, for one, proves that. Verse 28 and 29 have to also be fulfilled at this time. But how can these verses be fulfilled unless Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, also rise with the dead in Christ which shall rise first?

Yes, there are questions. But one thing is for sure. It happens post-trib.
 
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DavidPT

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Each person is in the book of life up to the point that they reject Jesus and live in a manner that gets their name blotted out of the book of life

I was just getting ready to respond to your post, but apparently you edited it first then changed it to something else altogether. I could have sworn you were mentioning something about the rapture and the resurrection not being the same.

Why does that matter though, that they are not the same? According to 1 Thessalonians 4, both occur within the same timeframe. If the dead in Christ rise just prior to an alleged Pretrib rapture, because after all, the text indicates the dead in Christ rise first, how can that not be meaning 1 Corinthians 15:51-57? And if that allegedly occurs before the tribulation, what about after the tribulation when Christ returns? Does 1 Corinthians 15:51-57 get fulfilled again, thus making it two times that it gets fulfilled? Ummm----there is only one last trump, not two or more. This alone tells us that 1 Corinthians 15:51-57 can have only one fulfillment and not multiple fulfillment instead.
 
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gideon123

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Please consider this comment from our Pastor, which was offered with love.

"Try to remember that none of us have a perfect understanding of the events in Revelations, or the Tribulation. I am convinced that when it does happen - however it happens - everyone will say ... Oh yeah, now we get it. Now it all makes sense. But in the mean time, if you want to talk things over the tabletop, with a spirit of sharing, then enjoy the conversation. But I am dismayed when these things become real conflicts amongst the people of God. This is something that God did not intend to happen."
 
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