Mid -Acts Dispensational Doctrine

now faith said:

Has any one considered Rehab the Harlot?
The crimson cord all the way to Christ blood.
How about the Faith of the Centurion?
Christ esteemed him above all the Jews in Jerusalem for his faith.
Christ saved Gentiles as well during his ministry, and he taught salvation as well.
We cannot presume to judge all of what Christ does on earth, nor can we decide for God the meaning of joint Heirs in Cbrist.

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now faith said:

Has any one considered Rehab the Harlot?
The crimson cord all the way to Christ blood.
How about the Faith of the Centurion?
Christ esteemed him above all the Jews in Jerusalem for his faith.
Christ saved Gentiles as well during his ministry, and he taught salvation as well.
We cannot presume to judge all of what Christ does on earth, nor can we decide for God the meaning of joint Heirs in Cbrist.

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• 1. Matthew 16:21-22 – Jesus first began to tell them of his death and yet Peter tried to prevent it.

• 2. Mark 8:31-32 – Another account of Peter rebuking the Lord for speaking about his death.

• 3. Mark 9:31-32 – After hearing about the death and resurrection of Jesus the disciples “understood not and were afraid to ask him”

• 4. Luke 9:44-45 – “But they understood not this saying, and it was hid from them, that they perceived it not: and they feared to ask him of that saying.”

• 5. Luke 18:31-34 – “And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.”

• 6. John 2:21-22 – They did not understand the resurrection until after it happened.
  Disbelief in the Resurrection

• 7. Mark 16:5-14 – The ladies were afraid when they found the tomb empty. The disciples did not believe after two witnesses testified of the resurrection.

• 8. Luke 24:1-4 – The ladies were perplexed about what had happened to Jesus.

• 9. Luke 24:8-12 – The stories of Jesus’ “disappearance” were idle tales. Peter wondered what happened.

• 10. John 20:2 – Mary Magdalene thought someone had stolen Jesus after he had resurrected.

• 11. John 20:7-9 – The disciples after seeing the empty tomb believed Mary that someone had stolen Jesus. They did not know about the resurrection yet.
  Did not understand the cross for salvation

• 12. John 20:21-23 – Even after the resurrection, the disciples did not understand what it accomplished. Here they are given the authority to remit sins.

• 13. Acts 3:14-15 – The crucifixion was presented as a murder indictment to Israel at Pentecost. The resurrection as a warning that he would return to seek vengeance.

• 14. Acts 5:28 – Instead of the blood being payment for sins it was presented as the evidence of guilty murderers.

• 15. Acts 7:52 – Stephen accuses the rulers of betrayal and murder of the Just One.

• 16. Acts 10:39 – According to Paul’s gospel Christ died willingly in the place of sinners. According to Peter he died because he was slain by certain Jews. Could it be that Peter does not yet understand the mystery of the cross?"

patrick jane said:

Verse List: The Twelve Did Not Preach the Cross
It is evident from 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 that the gospel of our salvation includes the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus as payment for our sins. This simple truth is the cornerstone of Christianity. Yet no where within Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John did the Twelve Apostles understand the preaching of the cross. Below are the verses that prove the Twelve were ignorant of the preaching of the cross for salvation.
DOWNLOAD THIS VERSE LIST: PDF

• 
  Ignorant of Jesus’ Death, burial, and resurrection
  
  
• 1. Matthew 16:21-22 – Jesus first began to tell them of his death and yet Peter tried to prevent it.
• 2. Mark 8:31-32 – Another account of Peter rebuking the Lord for speaking about his death.
• 3. Mark 9:31-32 – After hearing about the death and resurrection of Jesus the disciples “understood not and were afraid to ask him”
• 4. Luke 9:44-45 – “But they understood not this saying, and it was hid from them, that they perceived it not: and they feared to ask him of that saying.”
• 5. Luke 18:31-34 – “And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.”
• 6. John 2:21-22 – They did not understand the resurrection until after it happened.
  Disbelief in the Resurrection
  
• 7. Mark 16:5-14 – The ladies were afraid when they found the tomb empty. The disciples did not believe after two witnesses testified of the resurrection.
• 8. Luke 24:1-4 – The ladies were perplexed about what had happened to Jesus.
• 9. Luke 24:8-12 – The stories of Jesus’ “disappearance” were idle tales. Peter wondered what happened.
• 10. John 20:2 – Mary Magdalene thought someone had stolen Jesus after he had resurrected.
• 11. John 20:7-9 – The disciples after seeing the empty tomb believed Mary that someone had stolen Jesus. They did not know about the resurrection yet.
  Did not understand the cross for salvation
  
• 12. John 20:21-23 – Even after the resurrection, the disciples did not understand what it accomplished. Here they are given the authority to remit sins.
• 13. Acts 3:14-15 – The crucifixion was presented as a murder indictment to Israel at Pentecost. The resurrection as a warning that he would return to seek vengeance.
• 14. Acts 5:28 – Instead of the blood being payment for sins it was presented as the evidence of guilty murderers.
• 15. Acts 7:52 – Stephen accuses the rulers of betrayal and murder of the Just One.
• 16. Acts 10:39 – According to Paul’s gospel Christ died willingly in the place of sinners. According to Peter he died because he was slain by certain Jews. Could it be that Peter does not yet understand the mystery of the cross?

Conclusions:
This list does not prove that the Twelve were disobedient to the gospel that was presented to them. Contrarily, they were some of the first believers in the gospel of the kingdom. They were among the faithful remnant of Israel who trusted that Jesus was the Son of God and promised Messiah.


However, these verses show that the gospel they knew and trusted was not the preaching of the cross that Paul taught. Whereas they knew Jesus Christ as Messiah to Israel, Paul would later teach Jesus Christ on the cross as payment for sins to Gentiles.

The preaching of the cross was offered for salvation first through the Apostle Paul as the Lord revealed the meaning of the death, burial, and resurrection. The Twelve apostles were ignorant of this message.

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redleghunter said:

This all changed when Jesus opened their minds to the Scriptures in Luke 24:44-50

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ac28 said:

Of course, Patrick Jane is 100% correct, as far as he went. Also, during Acts, what the 12 and Paul preached to the nation of Israel, in an attempt to convert them, so Israel's Kingdom would be ushered in, was not a salvation gospel, as proven by Paul, in Acts 26:22, "Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come: And, he said as late as Acts 28:23, to the Pharisees, "And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. In both cases, Paul was preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom, the same as Christ preached. Those Jews that believed were born again.

To some of Jews that believed the Gospel of the Kingdom, Paul preached his Gospel of Salvation in 1Cor 15:1-4. This salvation gospel was also preached to the Gentiles. Those Jews and Gentiles that believed Paul's gospel made up the Acts church. The 12 never preached a gospel of Salvation, to anyone. During the Millennium (I think), the 12 will accomplish the Great Commission, which was given to them and ONLY them by Christ. At this time, the Great Commission has not even been started.

It is interesting to note that the phrase, "it is written", appears in Paul's 7 Acts epistles 35 times. but appears "0", that's ZERO, times, in Paul's 7 books written after Acts. It appears 16 times in Romans, the last book Paul wrote during Acts. Acts was 100% Israel, since all the saved Gentiles were grafted into Israel, the good olive tree. The Acts church was hidden in the Prophets, according to Romans 16. The totally different, brand-new, post-Acts church (which was part of The Mystery) was hidden in God, Eph 3:9, and had nothing to do with OT scripture and the prophets. The mystery in Romans 16:25 was the Mystery of Christ, totally different than the Mystery in Paul's post Acts epistles. The saints iafter Acts were chosen BEFORE the foundation of the world, Eph 1:4. The saints in Acts were chosen FROM, or SINCE the beginning, 2Thess 2:13. Huge difference, as is everything when you compare Acts with post-Acts.

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ac28 said:

Of course, Patrick Jane is 100% correct, as far as he went. Also, during Acts, what the 12 and Paul preached to the nation of Israel, in an attempt to convert them, so Israel's Kingdom would be ushered in, was not a salvation gospel, as proven by Paul, in Acts 26:22, "Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come: And, he said as late as Acts 28:23, to the Pharisees, "And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. In both cases, Paul was preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom, the same as Christ preached. Those Jews that believed were born again.

To some of Jews that believed the Gospel of the Kingdom, Paul preached his Gospel of Salvation in 1Cor 15:1-4. This salvation gospel was also preached to the Gentiles. Those Jews and Gentiles that believed Paul's gospel made up the Acts church. The 12 never preached a gospel of Salvation, to anyone. During the Millennium (I think), the 12 will accomplish the Great Commission, which was given to them and ONLY them by Christ. At this time, the Great Commission has not even been started.

It is interesting to note that the phrase, "it is written", appears in Paul's 7 Acts epistles 35 times. but appears "0", that's ZERO, times, in Paul's 7 books written after Acts. It appears 16 times in Romans, the last book Paul wrote during Acts. Acts was 100% Israel, since all the saved Gentiles were grafted into Israel, the good olive tree. The Acts church was hidden in the Prophets, according to Romans 16. The totally different, brand-new, post-Acts church (which was part of The Mystery) was hidden in God, Eph 3:9, and had nothing to do with OT scripture and the prophets. The mystery in Romans 16:25 was the Mystery of Christ, totally different than the Mystery in Paul's post Acts epistles. The saints iafter Acts were chosen BEFORE the foundation of the world, Eph 1:4. The saints in Acts were chosen FROM, or SINCE the beginning, 2Thess 2:13. Huge difference, as is everything when you compare Acts with post-Acts.

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ac28 said:

I'm not mid-Acts. I was mid-Acts for a year, about 30 years ago. Too much shenanigans with the scriptures. I've been Acts 28 for about 30 years. Big difference. No shenanigans. I'm more into scripture than maps. Everything I told you was true. Live and learn.You know more today than you did a few days ago.

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redleghunter said:

If we look at Acts 2, we see the same Gospel preached throughout the New Testament.

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ac28 said:

The only thing in Acts 2 resembling a gospel is vs 38,"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Repent = change your mind about Christ. Be baptized for the remission of sins and to receive the Holy Spirit, for the sole purpose of witnessing to Israel through signs and wonders so that Israel's Kingdom of God would start. There were no Gentiles in the upper room or in the multitude they were witnessing to in vs 38. The very first Gentile witnessed to was Cornelius, 7 or 8 years after Acts 2

Paul's Gospel of salvation in 1Cor 15:1-4, i.e., believe in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, and you will be saved. This is the only Gospel preached to Gentiles during Acts.

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redleghunter said:

Before those verses we have attested the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ proclaimed:

Acts 2: NKJV
22 “Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know— 23 Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death; 24 whom God raised up, having loosed the pains of death, because it was not possible that He should be held by it. 25 For David says concerning Him:

‘I foresaw the Lord always before my face,
For He is at my right hand, that I may not be shaken.
26 Therefore my heart rejoiced, and my tongue was glad;
Moreover my flesh also will rest in hope.
27 For You will not leave my soul in Hades,
Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption.
28 You have made known to me the ways of life;
You will make me full of joy in Your presence.’

29 “Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30 Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, according to the flesh, He would raise up the Christ to sit on his throne, 31 he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption. 32 This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses. 33 Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear.

34 “For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself:

‘The Lord said to my Lord,
“Sit at My right hand,
35 Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.”’

36 “Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”

37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?”

38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”

Then we have in Acts 3:

Acts 3: NKJV
11 Now as the lame man who was healed held on to Peter and John, all the people ran together to them in the porch which is called Solomon’s, greatly amazed. 12 So when Peter saw it, he responded to the people: “Men of Israel, why do you marvel at this? Or why look so intently at us, as though by our own power or godliness we had made this man walk? 13 The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, glorified His Servant Jesus, whom you delivered up and denied in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let Him go. 14 But you denied the Holy One and the Just, and asked for a murderer to be granted to you, 15 and killed the Prince of life, whom God raised from the dead, of which we are witnesses. 16 And His name, through faith in His name, has made this man strong, whom you see and know. Yes, the faith which comes through Him has given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.

17 “Yet now, brethren, I know that you did it in ignorance, as did also your rulers. 18 But those things which God foretold by the mouth of all His prophets, that the Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled. 19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, 20 and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before, 21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began. 22 For Moses truly said to the fathers, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brethren. Him you shall hear in all things, whatever He says to you. 23 And it shall be that every soul who will not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.’ 24 Yes, and all the prophets, from Samuel and those who follow, as many as have spoken, have also foretoldthese days. 25 You are sons of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying to Abraham, ‘And in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed.’ 26 To you first, God, having raised up His Servant Jesus, sent Him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from your iniquities.”

Which is the same Gospel Jesus commanded the disciples in Luke 24.

Luke 24: NKJV
44 Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.” 45 And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.

46 Then He said to them, “Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day, 47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 And you are witnesses of these things.49 Behold, I send the Promise of My Father upon you; but tarry in the city of Jerusalem until you are endued with power from on high.”

Which of course Paul readily admits the Gospel he preached was the same as from the other apostles:

1 Corinthians 15: NKJV
15 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. 6 After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep. 7 After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. 8 Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time.

9 For I am the least of the apostles, who am not worthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all, yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. 11 Therefore, whether it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.

Same Gospel of Christ crucified, died, buried and raised three days later.

A stalwart Dispensational theologian in HA Ironside addressed the ultra dispensationalist notions of two Gospels. His work was called Wrongly Dividing the Word of God.

His study can be found here:

Wrongly Dividing the Word of Truth by H. A. Ironside, Litt.D. - Contents

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ac28 said:

You pasted a lot of scripture but you said absolutely nothing.

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ac28 said:

Gospel simply means good News. Christ never preached a gospel of salvation. The 12 never preached a gospel of salvation. Paul did preach a gospel of salvation, but he was the only one during Acts that did.

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ac28 said:

I have most of those anti-dispensationalism books, including Ironside, which is one of the worst.. All they prove is that the authors have no clue of what dispensationalism really is. Any non-dispensationalist that gets to the point where he thoroughly understands dispensationalism will immediately become a dispensationalist.

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ac28 said:

I have most of those anti-dispensationalism books, including Ironside, which is one of the worst.. All they prove is that the authors have no clue of what dispensationalism really is. Any non-dispensationalist that gets to the point where he thoroughly understands dispensation

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ac28 said:

I'm not mid-Acts. I was mid-Acts for a year, about 30 years ago. Too much shenanigans with the scriptures. I've been Acts 28 for about 30 years. Big difference. No shenanigans. I'm more into scripture than maps. Everything I told you was true. Live and learn.You know more today than you did a few days ago.

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ac28 said:

You pasted a lot of scripture but you said absolutely nothing.

Gospel simply means good News. Christ never preached a gospel of salvation. The 12 never preached a gospel of salvation. Paul did preach a gospel of salvation, but he was the only one during Acts that did.



I have most of those anti-dispensationalism books, including Ironside, which is one of the worst.. All they prove is that the authors have no clue of what dispensationalism really is. Any non-dispensationalist that gets to the point where he thoroughly understands dispensationalism will immediately become a dispensationalist.



2Tim 2:15. "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." The only people that attempt to obey scripture and rightly divide are the dispensationalists. Ac2 - not much. Ac28 - a lot, mid-Acts - inthe middle. Since dispensationalists are the only ones that rightly divide, that means that dispensationalists, according to the scriptures, are the only ones who are approved unto God and the only ones who needeth not be ashamed.

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now faith said:

Jesus never preached the Gospel of salvation?

John 3: 14. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15. That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 22. After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.

John 10: 34. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35. If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36. Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? 37. If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. 38. But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

We Post Bible verse because,it's not twisted to fit into a box that supports a teaching that is man made.
Your entire point is blown, you said Jesus never Preached the gospel.
It is incredibly obvious he did according to Bible.
How can you deny the truth, when it is in plain sight?

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