Many Bible Translations destroys unity.

justbyfaith · Mar 28, 2018

DeaconDean said:
You are correct.

I was incorrect associating "manna" with "mammon".

You see, I'm not so "prideful", "haughty", or any other term you can think of. I am big enough, and humble enough to admit when I'm wrong.

You, however?

So as far as this thread is concerned, its

You: 1

Me: 99

And, lets also consider this.

It has been pointed out to you earlier, and asked:

"did you sell everything, give the proceeds to a non refundable entity and go out to take on criticism, injury and risk to life so that the finger of God would rescue you and thus convince people to come out of Egypt/ serving mammon (follow Christ)?"

If you have a job, then rightfully you, and me for that matter, have not forsaken "mammon".

When a certain disciple asked for time to go bury a loved one, Jesus said let the dead bury the dead.

Nobody, not you, and not me, have forsaken everything, house, wife, children, food, clothing, and went out in obedience to His command.

All of us are guilty of still to a certain point, serving, and/or a slave to "mammon".

The God of the OT, is the same God of the NT.

After all, if Jehovah-Jireh (God will provide) gave the Hebrews "manna" from heaven during the Exodus, won't He do the same for us?

Like I said, I'm just as guilty as everybody else on this point.

God Bless

Till all are one.

Of course Paul the apostle wrote that if anyone will not work, neither shall he eat. So we must strike a balance in every scripture. And yes, when I forsook all, I didn't have a job at the time. And the fact that I obeyed that scripture caused some of my friends and relatives to think of me as having gone over the deep end; that I was taking my religion too far. And in retrospect, I think that I was indeed taking it too far.

kiwimac · Mar 28, 2018

justbyfaith said:
I will let the scriptures be the final judge. The Bible is a timeless book. Therefore when it identifies Laodicea, it identifies everything called Laodicea throughout time.

Rot and nonsense.

Wordkeeper · Mar 28, 2018

justbyfaith said:
No; I didn't sell everything: I simply left everything. I was not looking at the command to sell everything, but the command to leave everything. The command to sell everything has a teaching about it in the church, that it was specific to the rich young ruler because he was making an idol out of his possessions; he trusted in his riches: he didn't just possess them but they possessed him.

Not so. If you look at the cross references to Matthew 19:21, you will find Jesus had commanded others to stop depending on the world, darkness, and begin depending on God, loving the light. They would show they were depending on God by actively placing themselves in situations of need, even of what words to say, and demonstrate God's presence with them, the finger of God, the involvement of God, the kingdom of God in their lives, something sought after, prized, as could be seen by the efforts of Simon the sorcerer and Ananias and Sapphira in the NT and the presumptuous Israelites in the incident where they tried to demonstrate they were empowered by going out to fight the enemy. Jesus avoided self glorification when He resisted the temptation to manifest gratuitous acts of super power in leaping off high places. The sin of Moses was in NOT manifesting the kingdom of God, but his own empowerment. How can men be fulfilled, have the ability to subdue creation, including themselves and other men, by following another man?

So did you leave depending on mammon, be an enemy of the world, and begin depending on God? How did you show God your faith?

justbyfaith · Mar 28, 2018

To be honest with you, I basically ran away from home as an adult, more than once; and looking back I really feel that it was actually the wrong thing to do. Still, I wouldn't change it. People got saved because I went on those excursions. He also counts my wanderings; it says that somewhere in the Psalms.

justbyfaith · Mar 28, 2018

Also, the Bible I carry doesn't contain cross references to that verse.

justbyfaith · Mar 28, 2018

Also, God sees faith invisibly, we shew our faith to man by what we do. Romans 4:2, 1 Samuel 16:7.

justbyfaith · Mar 28, 2018

In Matthew 6, Jesus tells us not to do our works to be seen and to receive glory from men, but to do them in secret; and the Lord will reward you openly. Therefore I am not here to broadcast the things I have done for the Lord. The good works of some men are manifest before the judgment, and those that are otherwise cannot be hid...1 Timothy 5:25.

justbyfaith · Mar 28, 2018

Of course previous to that, in Matthew 5:16, He tells us to let our light so shine before men, that they may see our good works and glorify our Father which is in heaven...so I would say who gets the glory? If it is God, then we are of the right kind of heart. If it is us, then we are not doing as God would have us do.

justbyfaith · Mar 29, 2018

kiwimac said:
Rot and nonsense.

Again, 1 Corinthians 1:18.

Wordkeeper · Mar 29, 2018

justbyfaith said:
Also, the Bible I carry doesn't contain cross references to that verse.

Matthew 19:21 Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

Matthew 6:19
Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal.

Matthew 6:20
But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal.

Matthew 19:20
"All these I have kept," said the young man. "What do I still lack?"

Matthew 19:22
When the young man heard this, he went away in sorrow, because he had great wealth.

Luke 12:33
Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide yourselves with purses that will not wear out, an inexhaustible treasure in heaven, where no thief approaches and no moth destroys.

Luke 16:9
I tell you, use worldly wealth to make friends for yourselves, so that when it is gone, they will welcome you into eternal dwellings.

Luke 18:22
On hearing this, Jesus told him, "You still lack one thing: Sell everything you own and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow Me."

Acts 2:45
Selling their possessions and goods, they shared with anyone who was in need.

Acts 4:34
There were no needy ones among them, because those who owned lands or houses would sell their property, bring the proceeds from the sales,

justbyfaith said:
Of course previous to that, in Matthew 5:16, He tells us to let our light so shine before men, that they may see our good works and glorify our Father which is in heaven...so I would say who gets the glory? If it is God, then we are of the right kind of heart. If it is us, then we are not doing as God would have us do.

Moses asked God to give Him signs (talents) so that it would have results, so that there would be a harvest, profit. Turning men from mammon to God is subduing creation, what Adam was created to do. Didn't Jesus's miracles, including the wedding feast, the cross, victory over death, turn men to God? (1 Cor 15). You can pick up the cross yourself, or you can support someone who is already in the Kingdom, so that when mammon abandons you, he will share his ministry with you (putting talent in the bank to earn interest).

justbyfaith said:
Also, God sees faith invisibly, we shew our faith to man by what we do. Romans 4:2, 1 Samuel 16:7.

God needs to know that you are loyal to Him so that your faith can be perfected, you can be made a blessing to men. Men need to see God's kingdom in your life so that they can be convinced they can also enter:

Genesis 22
12He said, “Do not stretch out your hand against the lad, and do nothing to him; for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me.”

justbyfaith said:
In Matthew 6, Jesus tells us not to do our works to be seen and to receive glory from men, but to do them in secret; and the Lord will reward you openly. Therefore I am not here to broadcast the things I have done for the Lord. The good works of some men are manifest before the judgment, and those that are otherwise cannot be hid...1 Timothy 5:25.

See above. Also:

Matthew 11
21"Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles had occurred in Tyre and Sidon which occurred in you, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

This does not force repentance. If you love the darkness, no proof is sufficient:

Luke 16
29“But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’ 30“But he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!’ 31“But he said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.’”

Prophetic. More than 500 people testified seeing the risen Lord, but still refused to leave the darkness, futile living.

betterorworse · Mar 29, 2018

Wordkeeper said:
Matthew 19:21 Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

Good verse. Amen

Sam91 · Mar 29, 2018

Wordkeeper said:
Matthew 19:21 Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

Matthew 6:19
Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal.

Matthew 6:20
But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal.

Matthew 19:20
"All these I have kept," said the young man. "What do I still lack?"

Matthew 19:22
When the young man heard this, he went away in sorrow, because he had great wealth.

Luke 12:33
Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide yourselves with purses that will not wear out, an inexhaustible treasure in heaven, where no thief approaches and no moth destroys.

Luke 16:9
I tell you, use worldly wealth to make friends for yourselves, so that when it is gone, they will welcome you into eternal dwellings.

Luke 18:22
On hearing this, Jesus told him, "You still lack one thing: Sell everything you own and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow Me."

Acts 2:45
Selling their possessions and goods, they shared with anyone who was in need.

Acts 4:34
There were no needy ones among them, because those who owned lands or houses would sell their property, bring the proceeds from the sales,

Moses asked God to give Him signs (talents) so that it would have results, so that there would be a harvest, profit. Turning men from mammon to God is subduing creation, what Adam was created to do. Didn't Jesus's miracles, including the wedding feast, the cross, victory over death, turn men to God? (1 Cor 15). You can pick up the cross yourself, or you can support someone who is already in the Kingdom, so that when mammon abandons you, he will share his ministry with you (putting talent in the bank to earn interest).

God needs to know that you are loyal to Him so that your faith can be perfected, you can be made a blessing to men. Men need to see God's kingdom in your life so that they can be convinced they can also enter:

Genesis 22
12He said, “Do not stretch out your hand against the lad, and do nothing to him; for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me.”

See above. Also:

Matthew 11
21"Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles had occurred in Tyre and Sidon which occurred in you, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

This does not force repentance. If you love the darkness, no proof is sufficient:

Luke 16
29“But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’ 30“But he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!’ 31“But he said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.’”

Prophetic. More than 500 people testified seeing the risen Lord, but still refused to leave the darkness, futile living.

Have you infact done that?

Wordkeeper · Mar 29, 2018

Sam91 said:
Have you infact done that?

Go through the thread.

Short answer. You can do that or you can ask for terms of peace. In simple words, sussing out the teaching, in Acts, some left mammon completely and began to depend solely on God, to manifest His kingdom. Some prayed to God. What is impossible with man is possible with God.

James 1
10But the rich should take pride in their humiliation-- since they will pass away like a wild flower.

Sam91 · Mar 29, 2018

@Wordkeeper

I dont hold value much to material possesions so haven't felt commanded to give things up. I did realise how I got a new materialism in purchasing christian books to read. It is so hard to avoid. I'm blessed and see that everything I have is given from the Lord and if needed I would sacrifice and give more but He hasn't asked me too. I do feel the need to be more financially responsible though in future so that I'm in a position to do more.

Praise Him, He provides for us when we do not worry and Trust in Him.

PS I have been watching the thread since the beginning. Must have missed your post. A link or the number would be useful. Thank you.

justbyfaith · Mar 29, 2018

Indeed, the ONLY way is to ask for terms of peace. The Lord sets it forth that if you are going to try and save yourself through your works, you must give up all your possessions. Would this not include your shirt, pants, and underwear? (Revelation 16:15 balances this out). Since going about the streets naked is not an option, we are basically forced to ask for terms of peace; which effectually is to receive salvation as a free gift of God's grace instead of trying to earn it: because God in His infinite wisdom brings into insanity those who would reject His offer of a free gift and instead try to earn it for themselves by what they do.

Sam91 · Mar 29, 2018

justbyfaith said:
Indeed, the ONLY way is to ask for terms of peace. The Lord sets it forth that if you are going to try and save yourself through your works, you must give up all your possessions. Would this not include your shirt, pants, and underwear? (Revelation 16:15 balances this out). Since going about the streets naked is not an option, we are basically forced to ask for terms of peace; which effectually is to receive salvation as a free gift of God's grace instead of trying to earn it: because God in His infinite wisdom brings into insanity those who would reject His offer of a free gift and instead try to earn it for themselves by what they do.

Well just this week I have been blessed with unexpected money (recieved email informing me that I am getting most of my deposit back when 2 months ago my letting agent phoned to say a huge list of things they wanted to claim for. I hadn't appealed but the deposit scheme contacted me to say otherwise), permanent home and will be given many items I thought I would need to purchase. Expensive items.

More blessings on top. So many. My youngest has been given his nursery place and I was surprisingly given special treatment too. He wasn't to start until August but headteacher asked me at my daughters meeting when she received her diagnosis if he was at nursery. Surprisibgly his 15hrs is 2 whole days and half a day. I had applied for afternoon sessions. But it means I can keep up my Bible study group when he isn't at nursery. It was suddenly in my mind immediately that I can now volunteer for the charity I wanted to for 18months.

God's timing is perfect. He provides everything and more when we trust in Him.

To bring it back on topic. Each translation tells us the same sermon not to worry about what we should eat or wear. That the Father knows what we need.

All translations tell us to 'trust in the Lord with all our heart and to lean not on our own understanding. In all ways to acknowledge Him and He will direct our paths.' (S91V)

justbyfaith · Mar 29, 2018

I think I am ready to stop arguing over translation issues. I feel that I have made my case. He that is holy, let him be holy still.

nChrist · Mar 30, 2018

King James Bible, 1611
THE HOLY BIBLE, Conteyning the Old Testament, AND THE NEW: Newly Translated out of the Originall tongues: & with the former Translations diligently compared and reuised: by his Maiesties speciall Comandement Apppointed to be read in Churches.

Wordkeeper · Mar 30, 2018

Sam91 said:
@Wordkeeper

I dont hold value much to material possesions so haven't felt commanded to give things up. I did realise how I got a new materialism in purchasing christian books to read. It is so hard to avoid. I'm blessed and see that everything I have is given from the Lord and if needed I would sacrifice and give more but He hasn't asked me too. I do feel the need to be more financially responsible though in future so that I'm in a position to do more.

Praise Him, He provides for us when we do not worry and Trust in Him.

PS I have been watching the thread since the beginning. Must have missed your post. A link or the number would be useful. Thank you.

Pistes, what we translate as "faithful" today, was understood as loyalty in the Ancient Near East. How can you call yourself loyal to Christ if you serve the world for food and clothing, eat it's bread, taste it's salt?

John 13
18"I do not speak of all of you. I know the ones I have chosen; but it is that the Scripture may be fulfilled, 'HE WHO EATS MY BREAD HAS LIFTED UP HIS HEEL AGAINST ME.'

Are these words meaningless?

Matthew 6
25“For this reason I say to you, do not be worried about your life, as to what you will eat or what you will drink; nor for your body, as towhat you will put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing?26“Look at the birds of the air, that they do not sow, nor reap nor gather into barns, and yetyour heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not worth much more than they? 27“And who of you by being worried can add a single hour to his life? 28“And why are you worried about clothing? Observe how the lilies of the field grow; they do not toil nor do they spin, 29yet I say to you that not even Solomon in all his glory clothed himself like one of these. 30“But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which is alive today and tomorrow is thrown into the furnace, will He not much more clothe you? You of little faith! 31“Do not worry then, saying, ‘What will we eat?’ or ‘What will we drink?’ or ‘What will we wear for clothing?’32“For the Gentiles eagerly seek all these things; for your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. 33“But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.

Wordkeeper · Mar 30, 2018

justbyfaith said:
Indeed, the ONLY way is to ask for terms of peace. The Lord sets it forth that if you are going to try and save yourself through your works, you must give up all your possessions. Would this not include your shirt, pants, and underwear? (Revelation 16:15 balances this out). Since going about the streets naked is not an option, we are basically forced to ask for terms of peace; which effectually is to receive salvation as a free gift of God's grace instead of trying to earn it: because God in His infinite wisdom brings into insanity those who would reject His offer of a free gift and instead try to earn it for themselves by what they do.

Actually, to develop on my previous post, asking for terms of peace is to use the wealth of Egypt to build the tabernacle:

Luke 16
9"And I say to you, make friends for yourselves by means of the wealth of unrighteousness, so that when it fails, they will receive you into the eternal dwellings.

What you have done when this happens is that you are showing loyalty to God by betraying mammon. Like Rahab. Remember how she negotiated terms of peace?

Many Bible Translations destroys unity.

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