Will breaking/not keeping the Sabbath keep you out of Heaven?

EastCoastRemnant said:

In case you missed it, the whole Jewish ecomony was abolished when Jesus died on the cross. The temple was left desolate and the veil was torn top to bottom. There was no more system for the 613 ordinances to be attached to. The Law of God however, which was made for mankind and not the Jews only continued on and will for eternity.
Matthew 5:18
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

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Bob S said:

Yep, I missed it because there is nothing in scripture that indicates that the "economy" was abolished. Yes the veil was wrent, but the Temple worship went on for another 70 years.


In case you missed it the 613 laws contained the 10 commandments. God was the one who gave all 613 laws to Israel. Break any one of them and the Israelite was guilty of sinning. Who gave the authority for your church to single out Sabbath, your modified tithing laws and your unclean meat laws from all the remainder of requirements?


I presume that by quoting verse 18 you are telling me to do something you are not doing and probably not willing to do. Jesus was telling the Jews that no command from all of Torah could be dismissed. Could not be dismissed until all be fulfilled. Apparently you do not believe Jesus did all He came to do. Apparently you believe Jesus didn't fulfill all the Law.

Fulfill = bring to an end. Not my thoughts, it is what the dictionary tells us it means. Paul verifies that Jesus brought the 10 commandments to an end in 2Cor 3:7-11. It appears that you have chosen the wrong church to teach you the real truth of what the Bible is telling us.

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Elder 111 said:

We are not on 613 commandments, nor are we disputing salvation by faith. What I know you do not believe is that only Israelites were not to steal, lie or commit murder. Is it OK for us to commit adultery? Then the 10 commandments are for us too!

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The Sabbath was and is not ritual!!!!!!. It is part of the Moral Law. God made it so not man. It is part of the first four which pertains to worship of and relationship. Do not ignore that the Sabbath is linked to God as Creator. Ex 20:8
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

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If you lie steal and kill now would that not also lead to death? Is it that the first commandments is removed and it is more glorious to have it remove? Ex. 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Do you not see that there is something wrong with your theology?

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Do you not know that there were ceremonial Sabbaths that had nothing to do with the weekly Seventh day Sabbath? Paul did not say that in 2Cor. 3:7-11! Never did! If not he is a liar and a hypocrite! What is Paul doing telling the gentles that Sabbath is done away with and then having Sabbath services with them? Acts 13:
42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.

44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
This is not the only occasion either.

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Elder 111 said:

So according to you Jesus abolished the law that says we should not have any other God. What did He replaced it with? How come you say that Jesus removed, replaced, abolished the law when He Himself said that He did no such thing? Are you greater that Jesus?
Mat. 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

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Bob S said:

What you wrote proves you write is something you do not believe. You quote Matt 5 and tell me that the law is not fulfilled. If that is correct then why are you not observing all of the Law given at Sinai? Who has given you the authority to only choose the ones you have been told are binding on mankind? Tell me why you have picked only a few of the commandments. In the book of the law you will find the love commandments. Love God =
Deuteronomy 6:5
And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Leviticus 19:18
Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord.

All I hear from you is keep the 10 commandments. Yet the greatest commands ever given in the Old Testament are not found in the 10 commandments. Smoke that in your pipe for a while and then tell me I am wrong and do not have the proper understanding of scripture. Tell me I have to be like you to be saved.

Jesus ended the old covenant at Calvary and introduced by His own blood the new covenant. In His new covenant there is nothing about keeping days. There is no trace of how one would go about being an new covenant Sabbath keeper. The old covenant had Temple sacrifices on Sabbath. If one is hell bent on observance then why not mimik what Israel was instructed to do on their Holy day. We have no instructions to do differently as per you. Remember you are the one that wrote that we are still under the Law because it has not been abolished. Oy!

My friend, put away what you have been taught and start thinking on your own. Are you a Seventh-day Adventist? This would be helpful in debating with you.

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Elder 111 said:

I am a bible believing Christian, who have found that the Seventh Day Adventist live by it's principles.
Did it not occur to you that Deut. 6:5 and Lev. 19:18 existed with the 10 Commandments and therefore would be doing the same now?
That the offering of lambs and sheep and bulls were what came to an end. Sabbath did not originate at Mount Sinai!

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listed said:

Rejected truth or your doctrine and church teachings? We understand here that your church (religious organization) is the only true church.

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listed said:

Nice manipulative ploy. It only works on the ignorant. You believe Jesus gave the ten commandments. The Gospel of John says no.

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listed said:

I do not think you understand the word establish as used here. Paul plainly says: Now we are delivered from the law. Paul does not say we are delivered from the punishment demanded by the law. Paul says our righteousness does not come by the law. You preach it does by virtue of sinning in not keeping the 4th. Jesus offers Himself as something the law can't provide in Matthew 11:28-30.

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listed said:

The sabbath does not provide what you seem to think it does. God swore Israel would not enter His rest even though they had and mostly kept the 7th day sabbath. You don't understand verse 10 you quoted above.

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Danthemailman said:

Sabbath keeping with all it's rules and regulations, was part of a covenant with Israel (Exodus 16:23, 29; 31:12-18; 35:1-3; Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3, 32; Numbers 15:32-36; 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13; Amos 8:5; Nehemiah 10:31) that is not binding on Christians under the New Covenant.

*Colossians 2:16 - Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

References for principles of 9 of the 10 commandments are reiterated under the New Covenant, yet the command to keep the Sabbath day is not binding on Christians under the New Covenant.

1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - James 5:12
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3

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listed said:

I do not think you understand the word establish as used here.

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Elder 111 said:

The law was never meant to provide righteousness, Never. It just points you in the right direction. Let's know what holy living is about. How would I know sin? Rom. 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

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Shimshon said:

I wholeheartedly agree. The veil remains.



The Law and Sin
The Law reveals sin. Romans 7:7

Life Through the Spirit
The Spirit 'removes' sin. Romans 8:1-4

Life Through the Spirit
1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.​

The law of the Spirit sets us free from sin, thus releasing us from the law of sin and in the end death.

This is the issue with taking something out of context. Anyone who has studied Romans knows chapter 7 is inextricably tied to chapter 8. The law reveals sin, correct. And the Spirit removes sin. So don't live by the law of the flesh, of dealing with sins, but live by the law of the Spirit that removes the sin and frees us from all condemnation.

A difference in the covenants that you seem to completely misunderstand. The reason we are free from sin is because we have been gifted the Spirit of God who dwells within his temple. His children. The reason we are not 'under' the law is because we who are in Christ are dead to sin. Dead to (the law of ) sin. Romans 6

Dead to Sin, Alive in Christ
1 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?

4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. 5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his.

6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7 because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.

8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.

11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13 Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness.

14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.​

If you understand that the law reveals your sins, then why can't you understand that it's the Spirit given under the new covenant which removes all sins from our beings? And why would you use Romans 7 against Romans 6 & 8 in your theology?

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Elder 111 said:

The only one that teaches all the requirements of God (the bible). Let us all be honest, all of us cannot be correct.

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Elder 111 said:

Who gave it. The I AM! Jesus says. John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

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Elder 111 said:

The law was never meant to provide righteousness, Never. It just points you in the right direction. Let's know what holy living is about. How would I know sin? Rom. 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

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Elder 111 said:

No they did not keep God's Sabbath. Eze. 20:13
But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; and my sabbaths they greatly polluted: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them in the wilderness, to consume them. Read the chapter.

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Elder 111 said:

Who wrote this? On what? God is eternal, stone symbolises permanence. I am God I change not. Explain how you can remove that which God placed in stone?

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Elder 111 said:

What I don't get from you is the fact the to be in Christ mean that I do not live in sin, which is: (Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is) the transgression of the law. I John 3:4

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