The Gog n Magog war will happen before the Tribulation

R. Hartono

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Erdogan's Vision: Uniting an 'Army of Islam' to Destroy Israel in 10 Days
The Gog n Magog war of Ezekiel 38 will happen just be4 antichrist appearance in Israel as the "Messiah" which will begin the 70th week of Daniel,which is the final week/7 years Grief Tribulation as it will take 7 years for Israel to burn Gog's weapons after their defeat.
Eze 39:9... and they shall burn them with fire seven years.

We are currently watching how Israel is pushed by nations to accept the Two States Solutions and share Jerusalem with P.A.
Nobody can make the deal as it will be the antichrist's role.
The antichrist will use the opportunity to make the 7 Years Peace Covenant between Israel and Arab enemies, then allowing the Temple rebuilt/worship and sacrifice, this end with the Abomination of Desolation at 3.5 years of tribulation.

The Temple will be allowed to be rebuilt after this war of Gog and Magog where the Arab nations as threats to Israel's existence will learn a massive defeat and then let the Temple be rebuilt besides the mosque as the symbol of 'peace'.
Revelation 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles:

The court is where the mosque now stands.

and Jerusalem will probably be made an Int'l city of 'Peace' by UN to avoid disputes over it
(Rev 11:2...and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months)

A new leader may rise from turmoil in the US, Russia and China (or from wars between them) as part of the 10 horns to give authority to Antichrist via the U.N. so he will have no rivals and allow him to become a one-world 'Peace Leader' (dictator)
Rev 17:12 "The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet begun to rule, but who will be given authority to rule as kings for one hour with the beast"

The Jews' Messiah might actually be a different person than antichrist, he can play the role of the False Prophet spoken of in Revelation,and he will be the executioner (2nd beast of Rev. 13) for those who resist to worship the beast and rcv its mark.

Antichrist will recover from a deadly wound which could be an assasination attempt against his effort to make Jerusalem an int'l city.
Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

Antichrist cannot make the 7 years peace covenant before the 1st seal is opened where he will be empowered to make peace.
Dan 8:25....and by peace shall destroy many..(conquering the world by peace)
Rev 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.


Because antichrist is restrained now until the Holy Spirit is removed with the church
2 Thes 2:7 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the One who now holds it back will continue to do so till He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will slay with the breath of His mouth and abolish by the majesty of His arrival.

There are 2 Gog n Magog wars :
Ezekiel 38 : They try to kill all Jews and plunder the land, God will destroy but spare 1/6th to testify of God's Mighty Hand to their nations.
Rev 20 : They will rebel against Jesus's Millennial Government, Nobody will be spared.

The Holy Spirit sent 2000 years ago on the Pentecost day shall be removed first (with the church thru which He works) so this world will somehow return to the Old Testament Era where God used His fierce Hands many many times to wipe off evil people and evil nations, such as by the Flood of Noah. The world will see His mighty Hands returns with Fierce global punishment by 7 Seals, 7 Trumpets and 7 Vials, billions sinners will perish.
 
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Jesus_is_our_Lord

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The Gog n Magog war of Ezekiel 38 will happen just be4 antichrist appearance in Israel as the "Messiah" which will begin the 70th week of Daniel,which is the final week/7 years Grief Tribulation as it will take 7 years for Israel to burn Gog's weapons after their defeat.
Eze 39:9... and they shall burn them with fire seven years.

We are currently watching how Israel is pushed by nations to accept the Two States Solutions and share Jerusalem with P.A.
Nobody can make the deal as it will be the antichrist's role.
Antichrist will make the 7 Years Peace Covenant between Israel and Arab enemies, then allowing the Temple rebuilt/worship and sacrifice, this end with the Abomination of Desolation at 3.5 years of tribulation.

The Temple will be allowed to be rebuilt after this war of Gog and Magog where the Arab nations as threats to Israel's existence will learn a massive defeat and then let the Temple be rebuilt besides the mosque as the symbol of 'peace'.

and Jerusalem will probably be made an Int'l city of 'Peace' by UN to avoid disputes over it
(Rev 11:2...and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months)

A new leader may rise from turmoil in the US, Russia and China as part of the 10 horns to give authority to Antichrist via the U.N. so he will haveno rivals and allow him to become a one-world 'Peace Leader' (dictator)
Rev 17:12 "The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet begun to rule, but who will be given authority to rule as kings for one hour with the beast"

The Jews' Messiah might actually be a different person than antichrist, he can play the role of the False Prophet spoken of in Revelation,and he will be the executioner (2nd beast of Rev. 13) for those who resist to worship the beast and rcv its mark.

Antichrist will recover from a deadly wound which could be an assasination attempt against his effort to make Jerusalem an int'l city.
Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

Antichrist cannot make the 7 years peace covenant before the 1st seal is opened where he will be empowered to make peace.
Dan 8:25....and by peace shall destroy many..(conquering the world by peace)
Rev 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.


Because antichrist is restrained now until the Holy Spirit is removed with the church
2 Thes 2:7 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the One who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will slay with the breath of His mouth and abolish by the majesty of His arrival.

Didn't all these events already happen in the 1st century A.D.?
 
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TribulationSigns

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The Gog n Magog war of Ezekiel 38 will happen just be4 antichrist appearance in Israel

The battle of Gog and Magog is not about the armies of Russians and/or Islam nations. It is not a physical battle.

as the "Messiah" which will begin the 70th week of Daniel,which is the final week/7 years Grief Tribulation as it will take 7 years for Israel to burn Gog's weapons after their defeat.
Eze 39:9... and they shall burn them with fire seven years.

You got wrong Messiah and wrong timing.

The Messiah the Prince has confirmed a covenant with his Blood. It is about God's salvation plan with His people. Not an evil prince with national Israel with man-made peace treaty at all!

Antichrist will make the 7 Years Peace Covenant between Israel and Arab enemies, then allowing the Temple rebuilt/worship and sacrifice, this end with the Abomination of Desolation at 3.5 years of tribulation.

Private interpretation.

The Temple will be allowed to be rebuilt after this war of Gog and Magog where the Arab nations as threats to Israel's existence will learn a massive defeat and then let the Temple be rebuilt besides the mosque as the symbol of 'peace'.

Wrong temple.

God did not talk about physical temple here. It is a spiritual temple on the side of the cross which represents the New Testament Congregation of Israel, the church.

Revelation 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles:

New Testament Congregation! The Temple, the altar and those worshippers are the True Elects of the congregation. Those in the court which is without the temple (Christ) are the professed Christians. It is a spiritual Holy City. Not physical city of Jerusalem like you believe.

Dan 8:25....and by peace shall destroy many..(conquering the world by peace)

Incorrect. This peace is a false gospel in the congregation. Not world peace.

Rev 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

This white horse is Jesus Christ. Christ defeated Satan, breaking his rule and spoiled His kingdom (Luke 10:18). All through the New Testament Church period Christ goes forth conquering and to conquer. He's been building the Kingdom of God with those seized from behind Satan's defenses. The gates of Hell could not prevail against the Christ who went forth conquering and to conquer these last 2000 years. This is how the church were built. Nothing to do with your wild imaginative about a man from the white house or United Nations with fake world peace directive.
 
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R. Hartono

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[Staff edit].

There are 2 Gog n Magog wars :
Ezekiel 38 : To try to kill all Jews and plunder the land.
Rev 20 : To rebel against Jesus's Millennial Government

Rev 20:8 says about nations in the four corners of the earth, means all nations will gather to invade Jerusalem to try to kill JESUS who rules in Christ Millennium and to replace Him with the devil to rule over the whole mankind.
 
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Douggg

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The battle of Gog and Magog is not about the armies of Russians and/or Islam nations. It is not a physical battle.
Then why does it list literal nations in Ezekiel 38, such as Persia - the former name of Iran ?
 
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seventysevens

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The battle of Gog and Magog is not about the armies of Russians and/or Islam nations. It is not a physical battle.



You got wrong Messiah and wrong timing.

The Messiah the Prince has confirmed a covenant with his Blood. It is about God's salvation plan with His people. Not an evil prince with national Israel with man-made peace treaty at all!



Private interpretation.



Wrong temple.

God did not talk about physical temple here. It is a spiritual temple on the side of the cross which represents the New Testament Congregation of Israel, the church.



New Testament Congregation! The Temple, the altar and those worshippers are the True Elects of the congregation. Those in the court which is without the temple (Christ) are the professed Christians. It is a spiritual Holy City. Not physical city of Jerusalem like you believe.



Incorrect. This peace is a false gospel in the congregation. Not world peace.



This white horse is Jesus Christ. Christ defeated Satan, breaking his rule and spoiled His kingdom (Luke 10:18). All through the New Testament Church period Christ goes forth conquering and to conquer. He's been building the Kingdom of God with those seized from behind Satan's defenses. The gates of Hell could not prevail against the Christ who went forth conquering and to conquer these last 2000 years. This is how the church were built. Nothing to do with your wild imaginative about a man from the white house or United Nations with fake world peace directive.
Wrong messiah
Wrong interpretation
 
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shilohsfoal

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There are 2 Gog n Magog wars :
Ezekiel 38 : To try to kill all Jews and plunder the land.
Rev 20 : To rebel against Jesus's Millennial Government

Rev 20:8 says about nations in the four corners of the earth, means all nations will gather to invade Jerusalem to try to kill JESUS who rules in Christ Millennium and to replace Him with the devil to rule over the whole mankind.

There is not one single WAR in scripture which Gog is a participant ,much less two.
Gog invades the land of Israel once .
His army is prepared for war with all their weapons ,but there is no war.
God destroys Gog and all his military on the mountains of Israel.
There is no Gog Magog war mentioned in the bible.Just like pharaohs army died in the red sea.It wasn't a war.
 
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BABerean2

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Erdogan's Vision: Uniting an 'Army of Islam' to Destroy Israel in 10 Days
The Gog n Magog war of Ezekiel 38 will happen just be4 antichrist appearance in Israel as the "Messiah" which will begin the 70th week of Daniel,which is the final week/7 years Grief Tribulation as it will take 7 years for Israel to burn Gog's weapons after their defeat.
Eze 39:9... and they shall burn them with fire seven years.

We are currently watching how Israel is pushed by nations to accept the Two States Solutions and share Jerusalem with P.A.
Nobody can make the deal as it will be the antichrist's role.
Antichrist will make the 7 Years Peace Covenant between Israel and Arab enemies, then allowing the Temple rebuilt/worship and sacrifice, this end with the Abomination of Desolation at 3.5 years of tribulation.

The Temple will be allowed to be rebuilt after this war of Gog and Magog where the Arab nations as threats to Israel's existence will learn a massive defeat and then let the Temple be rebuilt besides the mosque as the symbol of 'peace'.
Revelation 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles:

The court is where the mosque now stands.

and Jerusalem will probably be made an Int'l city of 'Peace' by UN to avoid disputes over it
(Rev 11:2...and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months)

A new leader may rise from turmoil in the US, Russia and China (or from wars between them) as part of the 10 horns to give authority to Antichrist via the U.N. so he will have no rivals and allow him to become a one-world 'Peace Leader' (dictator)
Rev 17:12 "The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet begun to rule, but who will be given authority to rule as kings for one hour with the beast"

The Jews' Messiah might actually be a different person than antichrist, he can play the role of the False Prophet spoken of in Revelation,and he will be the executioner (2nd beast of Rev. 13) for those who resist to worship the beast and rcv its mark.

Antichrist will recover from a deadly wound which could be an assasination attempt against his effort to make Jerusalem an int'l city.
Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

Antichrist cannot make the 7 years peace covenant before the 1st seal is opened where he will be empowered to make peace.
Dan 8:25....and by peace shall destroy many..(conquering the world by peace)
Rev 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.


Because antichrist is restrained now until the Holy Spirit is removed with the church
2 Thes 2:7 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the One who now holds it back will continue to do so till He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will slay with the breath of His mouth and abolish by the majesty of His arrival.


Daniel Chapter 9: Dr. Kelly Varner


.........................................................................................................

From the 1599 Geneva Bible, which is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America

Dan 9:27 And he shal confirme the couenant with many for one weeke: and in the middes of the weeke he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the ouerspreading of the abominations, he shall make it desolate, euen vntill the consummation determined shalbe powred vpon the desolate.


Daniel 9:27
And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

(a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.

(b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.

(c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.

.
 
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Waterwerx

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Doesn't anyone read the Bible anymore? I mean, some of this stuff is really basic. For example...
The battle of Gog and Magog is not about the armies of Russians and/or Islam nations. It is not a physical battle.

Ezekiel 39:9-16 <---anyone who reads this and comes to the conclusion that this does not involve a physical battle causes me to be inclined to think there's something wrong with their sources and to not take them seriously, period.

Yet again, Revelation 6:1-2 <---This is not Christ returning. Ever hear of critical reading?
First of all this rider appears and has "a bow" and is given "a crown". When Christ returns, He has a sword that comes out of His mouth to strike the nations and He wears many crowns.
Revelation 19:11-15

Those who do not learn from their mistakes are doomed to repeat them. :expressionless:
 
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jgr

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The Gog n Magog war of Ezekiel 38 will happen just be4 antichrist appearance in Israel as the "Messiah" which will begin the 70th week of Daniel,which is the final week/7 years Grief Tribulation as it will take 7 years for Israel to burn Gog's weapons after their defeat.

I see Messiah the prince in Daniel 9.

Where do I see antichrist?
 
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DavidPT

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This white horse is Jesus Christ. Christ defeated Satan, breaking his rule and spoiled His kingdom (Luke 10:18). All through the New Testament Church period Christ goes forth conquering and to conquer. He's been building the Kingdom of God with those seized from behind Satan's defenses. The gates of Hell could not prevail against the Christ who went forth conquering and to conquer these last 2000 years. This is how the church were built.


If that verse is meaning Christ, the following shouldn't have happened then.

Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Verse 10 says----How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

If verse 2 is meaning Christ, and that he has went forth conquering, and to conquer, verse 10 wouldn't be asking this question.
 
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TribulationSigns

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Then why does it list literal nations in Ezekiel 38, such as Persia - the former name of Iran ?

No.

It is "the Old Testament concealed is the New Testament revealed."

Look at Daniel 7 for example, God uses the figures of 4 "diverse" beasts in Daniel, representing physical nations/empires that fight against national Israel. But those nations prefigured Satan's kingdom just as Israel prefigured the kingdom of God. This does not mean that Satan's kingdom is literal nations, nor that the one beast in Revelation 13 represents 7 physical or literal nations. We cannot go back to the Old Testament earthly "types" to understand New Testament realities in the same way. For example, literal Egypt is a type of the bondage of Satan's kingdom from where Christ set them free. Same with the literal nation of Babylon, it was a "type" of Satan's kingdom that held the children of Israel captive. Because God used these nations as types, doesn't mean that the types continue into the New Testament as literal nations. In fact, I think if we consider the issue carefully we can see this representation right in the very context of Daniel chapter 7:

Daniel 7:17-18
  • "These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.
  • But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever."
Here we have God illustrating these four beasts and clearly declared that the saints of the most high shall take the kingdom. The question is WHAT Kingdom? It certainly cannot be the literal nations of Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Media, Greece or Rome. Selah! For though four kingdoms (four beasts) or tyrant rulers would invade Israel, bring her into captivity, usurp and treat her violently until the coming of John, yet Israel would be delivered and restored by Christ. But not the "Literal nation Israel" but the spiritual nation Israel which suffered violence from the spiritual kingdom of Satan, which these nations merely "represented."

Likewise with Persia, Ethiopia, Libya, Meshech and Tubal, etc. of Ezekiel 38. These were the natural enemies of Israel of Old, but they are only a figure or a type of an enemy for the New Testament Congregation of Isreal prior to Second Coming. The enemies mentioned in Ezekiel 38/39 are not physical nations we know of today, but Satan's armies of professed Christians, as well as false prophets and Christs who spoil and take prey of God's Gospel and replace it with their own doctrines.
 
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TribulationSigns

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If that verse is meaning Christ, the following shouldn't have happened then.

Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Verse 10 says----How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

If verse 2 is meaning Christ, and that he has went forth conquering, and to conquer, verse 10 wouldn't be asking this question.

You misunderstood.

Christ, our Deliverer, went forth conquering and to conquer through His Church, Covenant Israel, until all of His People has been sealed:

Revelation 7:1-4
[1] And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
[2] And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
[3] Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
[4] And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

All of the spiritual tribes of COVENANT Israel, not national Israel. This Covenant Israel won't be fully sealed or saved until fulness of the Gentiles has been coming in.

Romans 11:25-26
[25] For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
[26] And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

The vision of Revelation 6:9-12 takes place after the sealing of the Elect is finished first. They are the souls of the Elect who have been killed or dead BEFORE the Great Tribulation starts. At that time, they will cry how long the Lord will allow their enemies to continue only being told to wait a little longer until the prophecies concerning the rest of the people who will be still alive and remain during great tribulation period be fulfilled.

After the sealing of God's people through the church is fulfilled, the Great Tribulation will occur with the coming of the red, black, and pale horses. Do you even know what they represent? And no, it has nothing to do with physical war, famines and diseases in the world that you were told about.
 
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phydaux

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Haven't read the thread yet, but...

This is a view some people have, including my favorite Bible teacher Chuck Missler.

Chuck's view is that this battle culminates in the use of a nuclear weapon against Israel. The major world powers then dog pile into what up to then is a somewhat regional conflict, and out of this one world leader rises to power by negotiating a last minute peace deal. This world leader is, or course, the antichrist.

As likely a scenario as any, IMO.
 
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phydaux

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There is not one single WAR in scripture which Gog is a participant ,much less two.
Gog invades the land of Israel once .
His army is prepared for war with all their weapons ,but there is no war.
God destroys Gog and all his military on the mountains of Israel.
There is no Gog Magog war mentioned in the bible.Just like pharaohs army died in the red sea.It wasn't a war.

I think you are mixing the Gog/Magog invasion with Battle of Armageddon, seeing them as the same battle. This is a common and valid view, but it is by no means the only view.

While it is absolutely true that the Battle of Armageddon, as described in Revelation 20, never actually happens because it is interrupted by our Lord's triumphant return. But some scholars see the Gog/Magog invasion as a separate battle. That is also a common and valid view, and that's what this thread is about.
 
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phydaux

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I see Messiah the prince in Daniel 9.

Where do I see antichrist?

Dude, Hartono has "Messiah" in quotes, indication that he was referring to a false messiah.

I picked up on that. How did you not? Unless you're just stirring the pot.

Honestly, sometimes I think the regular posters on the sub-forum need to wear name tags with things like "Replacement Theologist" or "#MidTribRapture."
 
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seventysevens

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I think you are mixing the Gog/Magog invasion with Battle of Armageddon, seeing them as the same battle. This is a common and valid view, but it is by no means the only view.

While it is absolutely true that the Battle of Armageddon, as described in Revelation 20, never actually happens because it is interrupted by our Lord's triumphant return. But some scholars see the Gog/Magog invasion as a separate battle. That is also a common and valid view, and that's what this thread is about.
I have heard it taught by very knowledgeable bible scholars that Armageddon is more than one war - a few that culminate in the major battle in the end that most people think of when they think of Armageddon which may be why there are a few diverse views
 
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