Muslims do not know who they worship

CherubRam · Mar 25, 2018

Niblo said:
The Smith and Van Dyke translation of the Arabic Bible is arguably the most popular of its type. The Arabic Outreach Ministry recommends this Bible as part of their: ‘Sincere desire for all Arabic speaking people on the Internet to be introduced to God's eternal plan for men's salvation through Jesus Christ the Messiah.’ (cf. their site).

This is what John 1:1 reads like in that Bible:

فِي الْبَدْءِ كَانَ الْكَلِمَةُ وَالْكَلِمَةُ كَانَ عِنْدَ اللَّهِ وَكَانَ الْكَلِمَةُ اللَّهَ. هَذَا كَانَ فِي الْبَدْءِ عِنْدَ اللَّهَ.

‘In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God (اللَّه), and the Word was God (اللَّهَ). This was in the beginning with God (اللَّهَ).’

The words I have highlighted in red are the Arabic for ‘Allah’. If you truly believe that this word ought to be translated ‘oak’ rather than ‘God’ then I urge you to contact the people at the Ministry and make plain their error.

There again, you may wish to do nothing more than try and make sense of the text with the word ‘oak’ inserted:

‘In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with (the) oak, and the Word was (the) oak. This was in the beginning with (the) oak.’

Do you expect Arabic speaking Christians to worship God, or to worship a tree?

There is a difference between political correctness and biblical correctness.

Here is the correct translation of John 1:1.
Commentary on John 1:1.
Pantheion
Greek pantheion, from pan 'all' + theion 'Divine Eternal-s' (from theios 'divine.')
From Greek aion, meaning Eternal, for an infinite amount of time Pantheion: Pan/the/ion. All Divine Eternal-s. The word “All” makes it plural.

aeon or aion or eon
1. An immeasurably long period of time. From Greek, Aion, an infinitely long time.

Greek word TON and THEON.
From the Scripture4All program. Link: www.scripture4all.org/

The Greek word "TON" is translated 1583 times as "the;" And 18 times as "the -one." It is used before nouns to mean a {certain-one-person-s,} or place, or thing. However, different translations of Greek do not always agree. That is the reason for my interpretation of John 1:1 as "the only Divine Eternal." In English the word “one” can also be translated as “only.” TON: The only. THEON: Divine Eternal.

John 1:1

Greek:
en arche en ho logos kai ho logos en pros ton theon kai theos en ho logos

Interlinear:
en (in) arche (beginning) en (was) ho (the) logos (Word) kai (and) ho (the) logos (Word) en (was) pos (toward or with) ton (TON is a special definite article "the" meaning the one and only, it appears as TON instead of O in the Greek) theon (Divine Eternal) kai (and) theos (Divine) en (was) ho (the) logos (Word)

In English we have:
In beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the (one or only) Divine Eternal, and Divine was the Word.

The defining article "a" must be supplied for the English language, to define that there is another Divine that is not the "Divine Eternal."

Why do translators drop off the definite article TON (the one or only) before Divine Eternal?

Theon and Theos
They both mean Divine, but in different cases. Theos is the nominative, Theon is accusative. Another form is Theou, which is genitive.

John 1:1 reads: “In [the] beginning was the Word, and the Word was with [τὸν θεὸν, (TON THEON) literally, The Only Divine Eternal], and the Word was divine. [θεὸς].”

In the first instance (“the Word was with the only Divine Eternal”) it is in the accusative case and thus is spelled θεὸν [theon] But in the second occurrence it is in the nominative case, and so it is spelled θεὸς [theos]

Spikey · Mar 25, 2018

AskTheFamily said:
Nah, it means name of God although linguistically both are possible. Ishmael is the one who's name means God has heard.

Where did you hear that? Or read that? Ishmael may mean something completely different in the eyes of a non believer, like God means nothing. You can quote words and argue about their meanings, still doesn't mean they mean anything at all.

Niblo · Mar 25, 2018

CherubRam said:
There is a difference between political correctness and biblical correctness.

Here is the correct translation of John 1:1.
Commentary on John 1:1.
Pantheion
Greek pantheion, from pan 'all' + theion 'Divine Eternal-s' (from theios 'divine.')
From Greek aion, meaning Eternal, for an infinite amount of time Pantheion: Pan/the/ion. All Divine Eternal-s. The word “All” makes it plural.

aeon or aion or eon
1. An immeasurably long period of time. From Greek, Aion, an infinitely long time.

Greek word TON and THEON.
From the Scripture4All program. Link: www.scripture4all.org/

The Greek word "TON" is translated 1583 times as "the;" And 18 times as "the -one." It is used before nouns to mean a {certain-one-person-s,} or place, or thing. However, different translations of Greek do not always agree. That is the reason for my interpretation of John 1:1 as "the only Divine Eternal." In English the word “one” can also be translated as “only.” TON: The only. THEON: Divine Eternal.

John 1:1

Greek:
en arche en ho logos kai ho logos en pros ton theon kai theos en ho logos

Interlinear:
en (in) arche (beginning) en (was) ho (the) logos (Word) kai (and) ho (the) logos (Word) en (was) pos (toward or with) ton (TON is a special definite article "the" meaning the one and only, it appears as TON instead of O in the Greek) theon (Divine Eternal) kai (and) theos (Divine) en (was) ho (the) logos (Word)

In English we have:
In beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the (one or only) Divine Eternal, and Divine was the Word.

The defining article "a" must be supplied for the English language, to define that there is another Divine that is not the "Divine Eternal."

Why do translators drop off the definite article TON (the one or only) before Divine Eternal?

Theon and Theos
They both mean Divine, but in different cases. Theos is the nominative, Theon is accusative. Another form is Theou, which is genitive.

John 1:1 reads: “In [the] beginning was the Word, and the Word was with [τὸν θεὸν, (TON THEON) literally, The Only Divine Eternal], and the Word was divine. [θεὸς].”

In the first instance (“the Word was with the only Divine Eternal”) it is in the accusative case and thus is spelled θεὸν [theon] But in the second occurrence it is in the nominative case, and so it is spelled θεὸς [theos]

So many words to avoid saying: 'My bad!'

CherubRam · Mar 26, 2018

Here is proof that the Arabs knew the God of Abraham as Yahwah, and not Allah.

Chemosh was the god of war and the national god of the Moabites. He is equivalent to the Babylonian Shamash.

Chemosh, an ancient West Semitic deity, revered by the Moabites as their supreme god.

Others view Chemosh as the god of the neitherworld on the basis of an Akkadian god-list which identified him with the god Nergal. Support for this identification may be found in Ugaritic texts. Encyclopedia Judiaca Vol. 5, Col. 390.

THE MOABITE STONE

King Mesha, 930 BC.

Moabite Stone

I am Mesha, son of Kemosh melek, the king of Moab, the Dibonite. My father was king over Moab for thirty years, and I became king after my father.

And I made this high place for Kemosh in Qarhar . . . because of the deliverance of Mesha, and because he has saved me from all the kings and because he caused me to see [my desire] upon all who hated me. Omri, king of Israel -- he oppressed Moab many days, because Chemosh was angry with his land.

And his son succeeded him, and he also said I will oppress Moab. In my day he spoke according to this word, but I saw my desire upon him and upon his house, and Israel utterly perished forever.

Now Omri had possessed all the land of Medeba and dwelt in it his days and half the days of his son, forty years, but Chemosh restored it in my day. And I built Baal-meon and I made in it the reservoir and I built Kiryathaim. And the men of Gad had dwelt in the land of Ataroth from of old and the king of Israel had built for himself Ataroth. And I foutht against the city and took it, and I slew all the people of the city, a sight pleasing to Chemosh and to Moab.

And I brought back from there the altar-hearth of Duda and I dragged it before Chemosh in Kiryoth. And I caused to dwell in it the men of Sharon and the men of Meharoth (?).

And Chemosh said to me: "Go take Nebo against Israel"; and I went by night and fought against it from break of dawn till noon, and I took it and slew all, seven thousand men and boys, women and girls, and I devoted it to Ashtar-Chemosh.

And I took from there the altar-hearths of Yahwah, and I dragged them before Chemosh. And the king of Israel built Jabaz and dwelt in it while he fought with me and Chemosh drove him out from before me. And I took from Moab two hundred men, all its chiefs, and I led them against Jahaz and took it to add unto Dibon.

And I built Qarhar, the wall of the forests and the wall of the hill; and I built its gates and I built its towers, and I built the kings house, and I made the sluices for the reservoir of water in the midst of the city.

And there was no cistern in the midst of the city, in Qarhar; and I said to all the people: "Make you each a cistern in his house;" and I cut the cuttings for Qarhar with the help of the prisoners of Israel. I built Aroer and I made the highway by the Arnon. And I built Beth-bamoth, for it had been destroyed. And I built Bezer, for it was in ruins....(Chi) of Dibon wer fifty, for all Dibon was obedient. And I ruled. And I ruled a hundred....in the cities which I had added to the land. And I built [Mede]ba dnd Beth-diblathan. And [as for] Beth-baal-meon, there I placed sheep-raisers....sheep of the land... And [as for] Horonaim there dwelt in it....and.....Chemosh said unto me: "Go down, fight against Horonaim," and I went down and....Chemosh in my day, and from there.....and I.......

Chemosh was the god of war and the national god of the Moabites. He is equivalent to the Babylonian Shamash.

Chemosh was the national deity of the Moabites (Numbers 21:29; Jeremiah 47:7,13,46). In Judges 11:24 he was also the god of the Ammonites. Solomon introduced Chemosh but later Josiah abolished the worship of Chemosh at Jerusalem (1 Kings 11:7; 2 Kings 23:13).

Chemosh, was the ancient West Semitic deity, revered by the Moabites as their supreme god.

The famous Moabite Stone, written by Mesha, a 9th-century-BC king of Moab, Chemosh received prominent mention as the deity who brought victory to the Moabites in their battle against the Israelites. In those days the Arabs knew the name of God as Yahwah, but because Yahwah would not curse the Jews for the Arab people; so the name of Yahwah was a cursed and never to be spoken. And that is why Mohammad did not know the name of the God of Abraham.

That proves that Mohammad was not a prophet of God.

Starcomet · Mar 26, 2018

CherubRam said:
There is a difference between political correctness and biblical correctness.

aeon or aion or eon
1. An immeasurably long period of time. From Greek, Aion, an infinitely long time.

Aeonios did not mean an infinite amount of time. It simply meant a VERY long time, but there was assumed to be an end in the future but it was not known.

Niblo · Mar 26, 2018

CherubRam said:
Here is proof that the Arabs knew the God of Abraham as Yahwah, and not Allah.

Chemosh was the god of war and the national god of the Moabites. He is equivalent to the Babylonian Shamash.

Chemosh, an ancient West Semitic deity, revered by the Moabites as their supreme god.

Others view Chemosh as the god of the neitherworld on the basis of an Akkadian god-list which identified him with the god Nergal. Support for this identification may be found in Ugaritic texts. Encyclopedia Judiaca Vol. 5, Col. 390.

THE MOABITE STONE

King Mesha, 930 BC.

Moabite Stone

I am Mesha, son of Kemosh melek, the king of Moab, the Dibonite. My father was king over Moab for thirty years, and I became king after my father.

And I made this high place for Kemosh in Qarhar . . . because of the deliverance of Mesha, and because he has saved me from all the kings and because he caused me to see [my desire] upon all who hated me. Omri, king of Israel -- he oppressed Moab many days, because Chemosh was angry with his land.

And his son succeeded him, and he also said I will oppress Moab. In my day he spoke according to this word, but I saw my desire upon him and upon his house, and Israel utterly perished forever.

Now Omri had possessed all the land of Medeba and dwelt in it his days and half the days of his son, forty years, but Chemosh restored it in my day. And I built Baal-meon and I made in it the reservoir and I built Kiryathaim. And the men of Gad had dwelt in the land of Ataroth from of old and the king of Israel had built for himself Ataroth. And I foutht against the city and took it, and I slew all the people of the city, a sight pleasing to Chemosh and to Moab.

And I brought back from there the altar-hearth of Duda and I dragged it before Chemosh in Kiryoth. And I caused to dwell in it the men of Sharon and the men of Meharoth (?).

And Chemosh said to me: "Go take Nebo against Israel"; and I went by night and fought against it from break of dawn till noon, and I took it and slew all, seven thousand men and boys, women and girls, and I devoted it to Ashtar-Chemosh.

And I took from there the altar-hearths of Yahwah, and I dragged them before Chemosh. And the king of Israel built Jabaz and dwelt in it while he fought with me and Chemosh drove him out from before me. And I took from Moab two hundred men, all its chiefs, and I led them against Jahaz and took it to add unto Dibon.

And I built Qarhar, the wall of the forests and the wall of the hill; and I built its gates and I built its towers, and I built the kings house, and I made the sluices for the reservoir of water in the midst of the city.

And there was no cistern in the midst of the city, in Qarhar; and I said to all the people: "Make you each a cistern in his house;" and I cut the cuttings for Qarhar with the help of the prisoners of Israel. I built Aroer and I made the highway by the Arnon. And I built Beth-bamoth, for it had been destroyed. And I built Bezer, for it was in ruins....(Chi) of Dibon wer fifty, for all Dibon was obedient. And I ruled. And I ruled a hundred....in the cities which I had added to the land. And I built [Mede]ba dnd Beth-diblathan. And [as for] Beth-baal-meon, there I placed sheep-raisers....sheep of the land... And [as for] Horonaim there dwelt in it....and.....Chemosh said unto me: "Go down, fight against Horonaim," and I went down and....Chemosh in my day, and from there.....and I.......

Chemosh was the god of war and the national god of the Moabites. He is equivalent to the Babylonian Shamash.

Chemosh was the national deity of the Moabites (Numbers 21:29; Jeremiah 47:7,13,46). In Judges 11:24 he was also the god of the Ammonites. Solomon introduced Chemosh but later Josiah abolished the worship of Chemosh at Jerusalem (1 Kings 11:7; 2 Kings 23:13).

Chemosh, was the ancient West Semitic deity, revered by the Moabites as their supreme god.

The famous Moabite Stone, written by Mesha, a 9th-century-BC king of Moab, Chemosh received prominent mention as the deity who brought victory to the Moabites in their battle against the Israelites. In those days the Arabs knew the name of God as Yahwah, but because Yahwah would not curse the Jews for the Arab people; so the name of Yahwah was a cursed and never to be spoken. And that is why Mohammad did not know the name of the God of Abraham.

That proves that Mohammad was not a prophet of God.

Yet more words.

Let's keep it simple: Are Arabic speaking Christians - who read the word 'Allah' in their Bibles, and who recite that same word in their prayers - worshipping God, or not?

CherubRam · Mar 26, 2018

Niblo said:
Yet more words.

Let's keep it simple: Are Arabic speaking Christians - who read the word 'Allah' in their Bibles, and who recite that same word in their prayers - worshipping God, or not?

I know that is their intention, but Allah was never the God of Abraham. Muslims are calling upon a Pagan god. God's personal name is Yahwah which means, "Life Began;" even in Aramaic and Arabic. The word for God in Arabic and Aramaic is IL. IL=God

CherubRam · Mar 26, 2018

Rajni · Mar 26, 2018

CherubRam said:
I know that is their intention, but Allah was never the God of Abraham. Muslims are calling upon a Pagan god. God's personal name is Yahwah which means, "Life Began;" even in Aramaic and Arabic. The word for God in Arabic and Aramaic is IL. IL=God

It seems you're conflating personal names with
titles.

Niblo · Mar 26, 2018

CherubRam said:
I know that is their intention, but Allah was never the God of Abraham. Muslims are calling upon a Pagan god. God's personal name is Yahwah which means, "Life Began;" even in Aramaic and Arabic. The word for God in Arabic and Aramaic is IL. IL=God

Ah...so your fellow (Arabic speaking) Christians only intend to worship God. This implies that they are in error. In which case, who are they worshipping?

CherubRam · Mar 26, 2018

RayJeena said:
It seems you're conflating personal names with
titles.

Wrong!

CherubRam · Mar 26, 2018

Niblo said:
Ah...so your fellow (Arabic speaking) Christian only intend to worship God

I am doing Muslims a favor by sharing what I know. How many Jews do you think would reveal God's personal name to a Muslim? Time is growing shorter, if the Muslims do not turn, then they will all parish.

Niblo · Mar 26, 2018

CherubRam said:
I am doing Muslims a favor by sharing what I know. How many Jews do you think would reveal God's personal name to a Muslim? Time is growing shorter, if the Muslims do not turn, then they will all parish.

Please answer the question...if these fellow Christians are not worshipping God, then who are they worshipping?

TheOldWays · Mar 26, 2018

this Christian religion is so complicated. Glad I jumped ship a while back to a more simple idea of god.

CherubRam · Mar 26, 2018

Niblo said:
Please answer the question...if these fellow Christians are not worshipping God, then who are they worshipping?

A Pagan god. Allah originally is a Pagan god.

CherubRam · Mar 26, 2018

History of the name Jesus:

The English form "Jesus" was not seen nor spoken until after the year 1525, when Sir William Tyndale, a Protestant Reformer from Oxford, England; invented it.

Yahshua worked to fulfill prophecy by establishing God's Holy Name in the New Testament. But Trinitarian Christians burned the originals to establish their own version of scriptures. If this is not true, then show me God's actual personal name in the New Testament.

Hebrews 2:12
He says, “I will declare your name to my brothers and sisters; in the assembly I will sing your praises.”

Because the Galileans always dropped their 'ayins', hence "y'shu," for which in the talmud many Jewish people use as an acronym meaning “may his name be blotted out”.

The letters in "YSHU" stood for the sentence, "Yemach Shmo u'Zikro" meaning "may his name be blotted out" (from the scroll of life). According to a Jewish proverb, the worst death is eternal anonymity.

Honor His Name
For thousands of years the refusing to use a person's name has been a direct form of dishonor. Shortening the name, replacing the name, distorting the name, all are signs of dishonor.

Honorable Mention
An “honorable mention” is a title of distinction given to a person worthy of mention. Upon honoring the person their name is mentioned, so their name has a place of honor known among the people.

Malachi 1:6
“A son honors his father, and a slave his master. If I am a father, where is the honor due me? If I am a master, where is the respect due me?” says [the LORD / Yahwah] Almighty. “It is you priests who show contempt for my name. “But you ask, ‘How have we shown contempt for your name?’

Malachi 2:2
If you do not listen, and if you do not resolve to honor my name,” says [the LORD / Yahwah Almighty], “I will send a curse on you, and I will curse your blessings. Yes, I have already cursed them, because you have not resolved to honor me.

CherubRam · Mar 26, 2018

TheOldWays said:
this Christian religion is so complicated. Glad I jumped ship a while back to a more simple idea of god.

Simple

Niblo · Mar 26, 2018

CherubRam said:
A Pagan god. Allah originally is a Pagan god.

Shame on you. Michael. Shame on you. You would rather accuse your fellow Christians of pagan worship than admit the truth: That they worship God.

CherubRam · Mar 26, 2018

Niblo said:
Shame on you. Michael. Shame on you. You would rather accuse your fellow Christians of pagan worship than admit the truth: That they worship God.

Just because a person is of a certain faith, it does not mean they worship in truth.

God of truth Amen

Deuteronomy 32:4

He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

Psalm 31:5

Into thine hand I commit my spirit: thou hast redeemed me, O Lord God of truth.

Isaiah 65:16

That he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes.

John 14:17

the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

John 15:26

“When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me.

John 16:13

But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

1 John 4:6

We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.

CherubRam · Mar 26, 2018

Truth

John 4:24
God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.”

Acts 20:29-30
29 I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 30 Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them.

Romans 1:18
The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness,

Romans 1:25
They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

Romans 2:2
Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth.

Romans 2:8
But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.

1 Corinthians 13:6
Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.

2 Corinthians 4:2
Rather, we have renounced secret and shameful ways; we do not use deception, nor do we distort the word of God. On the contrary, by setting forth the truth plainly we commend ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God.

Galatians 4:16
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth?

2 Timothy 2:15
Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.

2 Timothy 4:4
They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

2 Peter 2:2
Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.

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