Debate-For MJ's Only A NEW Torah Hebrew Day Didn't Begin At Sunset

AbbaLove · Mar 23, 2018

Steve Petersen said:
Between the evenings is the point midway between when the sun begins to decline (noon) and when it sets (about 6pm in Jerusalem.) That would place it at the time of the Minchah offering.

Yes, that pretty much sums up the position of Rashi who sided with Rabbinic Judaism and the Talmud. However, as Messianic Believers in Mashiach Yeshua shouldn't we be open to the possibility that Jewish man-made tradition(s) effectly redefined "between the evenings" to a different timeline than that of the first Passover (Exodus 12:6).

Dave-W said:
The Temple priests (Sadducees) did it for practical reasons: it takes a lot of time to process that many lambs.

As David-W eluded ... the possible change in the timeline introduced by either the Pharisees, Sadduces or both was "for practical reasons" being that thousands of lambs were killed at the Temple by the Priests with assistance from the Levite helpers.

During the first Passover the Israelites killed their own lambs at home "between the evenings" during "twilight" after sunset NOT for several hours in the afternoon before sunset. Abraham Ibn Ezra (not beholding to man-made traditions) estimates "between the evenings" ("twilight") as approximately one and one-half hours at the first Passover (Exodus 12:6). The Temple Priests needed more time to kill all the lambs so they moved back the timeline of "between the evenings" to include several hours in the afternoon before sunset. In affect changing when an Israelite day ended from approx 90 minutes after sunset in the Torah to at sunset. This the debate over the meaning of "between the evenings" as understood by Moses.

So, this MJ ONLY Debate with respect to Exodus 12:6, Leviticus 23:5, Numbers 9:3 (and other relevant Torah scriptures) that's still debated among Jews for at least 2000 years is whether the Jewish day ends at sunset or after sunset. If after sunset does it end when the first 3 stars are visible OR not until the onset of night (approx one and one-half hours after sunset).

Steve Petersen · Mar 23, 2018

AbbaLove said:
Yes, that pretty much sums up the position of Rashi who sided with Rabbinic Judaism and the Talmud. However, as Messianic Believers in Mashiach Yeshua shouldn't we be open to the possibility that Jewish man-made tradition(s) effectly redefined "between the evenings" to a different timeline than that of the first Passover (Exodus 12:6).

As David-W eluded ... the possible change in the timeline introduced by either the Pharisees, Sadduces or both was "for practical reasons" being that thousands of lambs were killed at the Temple by the Priests with assistance from the Levite helpers.

During the first Passover the Israelites killed their own lambs at home "between the evenings" during "twilight" after sunset NOT for several hours in the afternoon before sunset. Abraham Ibn Ezra (not beholding to man-made traditions) estimates "between the evenings" ("twilight") as approximately one and one-half hours at the first Passover (Exodus 12:6). The Temple Priests needed more time to kill all the lambs so they moved back the timeline of "between the evenings" to include several hours in the afternoon before sunset. In affect changing when an Israelite day ended from approx 90 minutes after sunset in the Torah to at sunset. This the debate over the meaning of "between the evenings" as understood by Moses.

So, this MJ ONLY Debate with respect to Exodus 12:6, Leviticus 23:5, Numbers 9:3 (and other relevant Torah scriptures) that's still debated among Jews for at least 2000 years is whether the Jewish day ends at sunset or after sunset. If after sunset does it end when the first 3 stars are visible OR not until the onset of night (approx one and one-half hours after sunset).

This has been settled by the Jewish authorities. Messianic JUDAISM should abide by those rulings.

AbbaLove · Mar 23, 2018

Steve Petersen said:
This has been settled by the Jewish authorities. Messianic JUDAISM should abide by those rulings.

The various sects of Judaism have been debating this issue for at least two thousand years. So your above quote makes one wonder if you put the dictates of Rabbinic Judaism above that of Mashiach Yeshua. It's like your saying in so many words that whatever Rabbinic Judaism and the Talmud says is what HaShem has to agree with or all traditions of Rabbinic Judaism had to first get the stamp of approval from HaShem.

Don't think that is what you really believe, but that's the way it comes across as if it's up to Jewish authorities when they don't even believe that Yeshua is Israel's Mashiach. Besides, sects of Judaism can't agree among themselves whether a day ends at sunset or after sunset according to Exodus 12:6.

FWIW, The Karites are more beholding to the original statues of HaShem than all of the additional man-made traditions of Rabbinic Judaism and the Talmud. The SOP doesn't mandate that a Messianic member of this MJ forum has to abide by the traditions of Rabbinic Judaism when Rabbinic Judaism rejects Yeshua as Israel's Mashiach.

PS: Do you prefer the use of ultra white linen gloves, off-white cotton gloves or man-made disposal latex gloves for those preparing food in the kitchen and serving food at Beth Immanuel's Passover Seder?

CherubRam · Mar 23, 2018

On Preparation Day
In the evening before sundown the rabbi's were concerned about the Sabbath beginning. So they had two of the men's legs broken to speed up their death.

CherubRam · Mar 23, 2018

The New Covenant Supper was two days before Passover. The disciples broke bread, not Unleavened Bread, and not wafers.

AbbaLove · Mar 24, 2018

gadar perets said:
Numbers 28:4,8 - "The one lamb shalt thou offer in the morning, and the other lamb shalt thou offer at even ;

Yes, at even is rightly translated as "at twilight" as do the Jewish scholars of the JPS 1985 edition who correctly interpret “beyn ha-arbayim” (between the two evenings) as "at twilight" favoring Ibn Ezra and NOT as "in the afternoon" favoring Rashi and Chabad's Complete Tanach ... The Complete Tanach with Rashi's Commentary - English translation with Rashi's commentary

Numbers 28:4,8 (Jerusalem Publication Society 1985 edition)
4 You shall offer one lamb in the morning, and the other lamb you shall offer at twilight.
8 The other lamb you shall offer at twilight, preparing the same meal offering and libation as in the morning-an offering by fire of pleasing odor to the LORD.

Last year you corrected and corrected Vis as if it's impossible for a woman to know more about Yeshua (G-d Incarnate) than you when referring to Yeshua as an "elohim" and your Three-In-ONE unbelief. Then when i posted articles by Messianic Ellen Kavanaugh about the Deity of Yeshua as G-d Incarnate you responded with the following comment ...

WOW! Now I know why Paul wrote 1 Timothy 2:11-14

... and ...

Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man,
but to be in silence.
For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
1 Timothy 2:11-14

Will you even read the following by Ellen Kavanaugh a messianic woman of faith ...
RRUF Ministries

Your "in the afternoon" is identical to AlmightyWind and that of the Apostle Prophet
and Pastor Elisabeth Elijah (Elisheva Eliyahu). Perhaps her article encourages you.
WHAT DOES "BETWEEN THE EVENINGS" MEAN?

What Apostle and Prophet Elisheva Eliyahu fails to mention is that other scholars speculate that some of the Sadducees and possibly Essenes (and/or Karites) also believed as the Samaritans (or the Samaritains believed them). Do you think it
possible that any of the Jewish scholars of the Jerusalem Publication Society that extensively favor "at twilight" with respect to the killing of lambs in the Torah
may be Samaritans or Sadducees or Essenes at heart ???

Introducing AmightyWind's New Male Leadership!

Steve Petersen · Mar 24, 2018

AbbaLove said:
The various sects of Judaism have been debating this issue for at least two thousand years.
So your above quote makes one wonder if you put the dictates of Rabbinic Judaism above that of Mashiach Yeshua.

In this particular discussion about the timing of the slaughter of the Pesach, Yeshua's death at the same time as the Pesach endorses that timing.

It's like your saying in so many words that whatever Rabbinic Judaism and the Talmud says is what HaShem has to agree with or all traditions of Rabbinic Judaism had to first get the stamp of approval from HaShem.

God gave the Torah to the Jewish people and he gave the priests and elders the authority to interpret it (Deuteronomy 17).

Jesus told his followers to obey the Scribes and Pharisees even though they were hypocrites at times (Matthew 23:1.) Now if they were to be obeyed even when they didn't practice what they preached, how much more so when the DID practice what they preached!

Don't think that is what you really believe, but that's the way it comes across as if it's up to Jewish authorities when they don't even believe that Yeshua is Israel's Mashiach. Besides, sects of Judaism can't agree among themselves whether a day ends at sunset or after sunset according to Exodus 12:6.

The authority of the priests and elders to rule for Israel was not contingent on their belief in Yeshua. This is clear from the fact the Yeshua told his followers to obey them KNOWING that they weren't believers. Anyway, there is no evidence that Yeshua ever challenged a ruling by the High Court; he did challenge customs that had not been ruled upon.

FWIW, The Karites are more beholding to the original statues of HaShem than all of the additional man-made traditions of Rabbinic Judaism and the Talmud.

The Karaites reject Yeshua also.

The SOP doesn't mandate that a Messianic member of this MJ forum has to abide by the traditions of Rabbinic Judaism when Rabbinic Judaism rejects Yeshua as Israel's Mashiach.

Never said it was mandated. Don't see how this is germane to the topic.

Do you prefer the use of ultra white linen gloves, off-white cotton gloves or man-made disposal latex gloves for those preparing food in the kitchen and serving food at Beth Immanuel's Passover Seder?

This matters why?

gadar perets · Mar 24, 2018

AbbaLove said:
Yes, at even is rightly translated as "at twilight" as do the Jewish scholars of the JPS 1985 edition who correctly interpret “beyn ha-arbayim” (between the two evenings) as "at twilight" favoring Ibn Ezra and NOT as "in the afternoon" favoring Rashi and Chabad's Complete Tanach ... The Complete Tanach with Rashi's Commentary - English translation with Rashi's commentary

Numbers 28:4,8 (Jerusalem Publication Society 1985 edition)
4 You shall offer one lamb in the morning, and the other lamb you shall offer at twilight.
8 The other lamb you shall offer at twilight, preparing the same meal offering and libation as in the morning-an offering by fire of pleasing odor to the LORD.

Last year you corrected and corrected Vis as if it's impossible for a woman to know more about Yeshua (G-d Incarnate) than you when referring to Yeshua as an "elohim" and your Three-In-ONE unbelief. Then when i posted articles by Messianic Ellen Kavanaugh about the Deity of Yeshua as G-d Incarnate you responded with the following comment ...

WOW! Now I know why Paul wrote 1 Timothy 2:11-14

... and ...
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man,
but to be in silence.
For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
1 Timothy 2:11-14

Will you even read the following by Ellen Kavanaugh a messianic woman of faith ...
RRUF Ministries

Your "in the afternoon" is identical to AlmightyWind and that of the Apostle Prophet
and Pastor Elisabeth Elijah (Elisheva Eliyahu). Perhaps her article encourages you.
WHAT DOES "BETWEEN THE EVENINGS" MEAN?

What Apostle and Prophet Elisheva Eliyahu fails to mention is that other scholars speculate that some of the Sadducees and possibly Essenes (and/or Karites) also believed as the Samaritans (or the Samaritains believed them). Do you think it
possible that any of the Jewish scholars of the Jerusalem Publication Society that extensively favor "at twilight" with respect to the killing of lambs in the Torah
may be Samaritans or Sadducees or Essenes at heart ???

Introducing AmightyWind's New Male Leadership!

In your attempt to discredit me, you TOTALLY failed to address my point about Numbers 28:4, 8. It is because you have NO defense against my Scriptural refutation to your twilight belief that you make the conversation about me rather than my message. Feel free to try again.

gadar perets · Mar 24, 2018

Steve Petersen said:
The authority of the priests and elders to rule for Israel was not contingent on their belief in Yeshua. This is clear from the fact the Yeshua told his followers to obey them KNOWING that they weren't believers. Anyway, there is no evidence that Yeshua ever challenged a ruling by the High Court; he did challenge customs that had not been ruled upon.

Yeshua pointed out the fact that the Pharisees, who sit in Moses' seat, were causing the people to sin against YHWH's commandments (Matthew 15:1-9). Since we are to sin no more, then we should not follow those who sit in Moses' seat if they too, cause us to sin.

I do not believe any Jew who has not accepted Yeshua as the Messiah can sit in Moses seat. I base this belief on the Apostle Paul's parable of the olive tree in Romans 11:17-21. Any Israelite who rejects Messiah and walks in unbelief is as a branch broken off the tree (vs.20). Some Israelites believed and are therefore called "the election" (vs.7). The rest were blinded including those who sat in Moses' seat. All that is written from vss.7-15 pertains to them. 2 Cor 3:14-16 says, "But their minds were blinded: for until this day remains the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which veil is done away in Messiah. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Master, the veil shall be taken away." Any modern day Pharisee who refuses to believe that Yeshua Messiah has come in the flesh cannot possibly sit in Moses seat.

The final removal of those who sat in Moses' seat and rejected Messiah, occurred in 70 CE when Jerusalem was destroyed and the their house was left unto them desolate (Matthew 23:37-38).

Joelthe vicious · Mar 24, 2018

gadar perets said:
The following verses settle the issue of when between the evenings is.

Numbers 28:4,8 - "The one lamb shalt thou offer in the morning, and the other lamb shalt thou offer at even ;

And the other lamb shalt thou offer at even : as the meat offering of the morning, and as the drink offering thereof, thou shalt offer it , a sacrifice made by fire, of a sweet savour unto YHWH."

Both phrases in bold type are from the Hebrew "ben ha-arbayim." These verses deal with the time of the evening sacrifice.

First, the historical testimony of Josephus places the evening sacrifice at "about the ninth hour" or approximately 3:00 p.m. (Antiquities 14.4.3). This agrees with his statement that the Passover lamb was sacrificed "between the ninth and the eleventh hour" (Wars 6.9.3). Two different sacrifices, both occurring at about the ninth hour and both fulfilling the command to sacrifice "between the evenings."

Secondly, we have the clear meaning of two other Hebrew words to assure us of the meaning intended. The word "one" used in verse 4 is the Hebrew word "echad" which can also mean "first" as in Numbers 29:1 and many other texts.

Numbers 29:1a - "And in the seventh month, on the first day of the month, ye shall have an holy convocation;"

More importantly is the Hebrew word translated "other" in verse 8. It is "sheniy" meaning "double ie: second," according to Strong's Concordance. "Sheniy" is the most common Hebrew word for "second." If the "other" lamb, or more correctly, the "second" lamb, were sacrificed after sunset it would have been sacrificed on a new day making it the first lamb sacrificed that day. Both lambs had to be sacrificed the same day, the first one in the morning and the second one between the evenings or late in the day, but before sunset.

In another post you gave a graphic showing the evening and morning twilights did not belong to the 12 hours of day. Therefore, the "second" lamb had to be offered during the day light portion or it would become the first lamb of the day if offered after sunset during twilight.

Based on these Torah facts, the Pharisees did not change the timing of the Passover sacrifice. It and the time of the evening sacrifice were always before sunset. They were the last sacrifices of the day.

I think you and I agree.

Joelthe vicious · Mar 24, 2018

AbbaLove said:
As David-W eluded ... the possible change in the timeline introduced by either the Pharisees, Sadduces or both was "for practical reasons" being that thousands of lambs were killed at the Temple by the Priests with assistance from the Levite helpers.

Debate-For MJ's Only - A NEW Torah Hebrew Day Didn't Begin At Sunset

As you define 'twilight' it came 'after sunset', and that the great number of passover lambs were slain then, because there was still light enough although only the 'twilight after sunset'. That means after this period of night after sunset, night would be too dark to sacrifice?

It was full moon. Sacrifice was possible virtually all night long. So there is NO necessity at all that sacrifice had to be done within the 'twilight after sunset' for its light.

The ONLY truly DARK time during Jesus' Last Passover Suffering of Yahweh, were the three hours before his last breath and death, "the ninth hour". For the fact of this given time alone, we have all the evidence needed for indisputable proof that the Passover of Yahweh was killed "mid-afternoon" 3 p.m. and not 'twilight after sunset'.

But there is much more to be noted concerning these "three hours", "from the sixth to the ninth hour" of the after noon daylight. And that is, that it was the only truly dark darkness during the whole of the final "three days thick darkness" of the Last Passover Suffering of Yahweh of Jesus Christ, exactly over the 'timeline' the great number of passover lambs or single lamb in the temple no difference had to be slaughtered and offered. BUT NONE WERE KILLED BECAUSE OF THE ABSOLUTE DARKNESS "over all the land"!

Not one animal was sacrificed and no drop of mortal blood was shod at the Passover of Yahweh OF JESUS CHRIST!

Which proves indisputably 'behn-ha-arba-yim' when the passover had to be killed NEVER was and NEVER could mean 'twilight after sunset' but was and meant "between-the-late-quarters-of-days'-light" three hours BEFORE sunset.

Joelthe vicious · Mar 24, 2018

CherubRam said:
On Preparation Day
In the evening before sundown the rabbi's were concerned about the Sabbath beginning. So they had two of the men's legs broken to speed up their death.

It is not true what you are saying here. It was not 'before sundown' but John 19:31 and Mark 15:42 "evening having had come the Preparation which is the Fore-Sabbath having had begun, the Jews THEREFORE asked Pilate to have the crosses and the crucified removed ON the sabbath because THAT DAY was great day of sabbath" OF THE PASSOVER the fifteenth day of the First Month and John 19:39 "AT THE FIRST NIGHT" so called because of it having been the first night ulb had to be eaten Exodus 12:41 "IN that NIGHT solemnly to be observed" with the eating of the ulb "WITH the flesh" Exodus 12:8 of the sacrifice sacrificed "mid-afternoon", "on the fourteenth day of the month" Exodus 12:6 the day which had had ended with 'sundown' with which "the fifteenth" also had had started. Leviticus 23:6.

Joelthe vicious · Mar 24, 2018

CherubRam said:
The New Covenant Supper was two days before Passover. The disciples broke bread, not Unleavened Bread, and not wafers.

It was Mark 14:12 Matthew 26:17 Luke 22:7 John 13:1 "the day before the eat-days of passover", "the first day (of passover) they always had to KILL the passover on and always had to REMOVE leaven on", the very day and date before they always had to EAT the passover on and "feast", John 19:31 "on the sabbath because That Day was great day of sabbath of" the passover; not of the week!
So yes, 'The disciples broke bread, not Unleavened Bread, and not wafers.'

Joelthe vicious · Mar 24, 2018

And so, yes, it is true what you are saying here,

CherubRam said:
...the rabbi's were concerned about the Sabbath beginning

...but the "sabbath" of the fifteenth, the passover feast and high day sabbath.

Which means the Jews the day before the Preparation which is the Fore-Sabbath, the day they crucified Jesus on, were not the least concerned but utterly unconcerned about the passover "sabbath" that HAD TO FOLLOW THAT DAY OF THEIR total disregard not only for what they were DOING, but for exactly the DATES and DAYS on which they were doing their misdeeds and atrocities.

CherubRam · Mar 24, 2018

I'm done.

AbbaLove · Mar 24, 2018

CherubRam said:
I'm done.

He was informed early on that this is a Debate-MJ Only thread ... apparently he can't take a hint. What is the purpose of a Debate-For MJs Only thread when a non-MJ member persists in posting again and again and again and on and on and on. Fifteen posts so far. He comes across as if he knows more about Messianic Judaism than MJ members.

Hoping Lulav or another administrator deletes all of his posts and restricts him from further posts on this thread ... haven't read any of his posts since page 1.

AbbaLove · Mar 24, 2018

gadar perets said:
In your attempt to discredit me, you TOTALLY failed to address my point about Numbers 28:4, 8. It is because you have NO defense against my Scriptural refutation to your twilight belief that you make the conversation about me rather than my message. Feel free to try again.

Yes (sorry to say), that i've come to reject more than embrace your "afternoon"
meaning of "between the evenings" timeline of Exodus 12:6 for 3 reasons ...

You don't believe that Yeshua is the physical manifestation of Incarnate G-d, and instead refer to Yeshua as an "elohim" (all lower case letters) and apparently been warned by CF. This raises a yellow caution flag, if not a red warning to beware.
You come across as if don't think it's possible for a woman to be more knowledgeable about the Bible than you nor for that matter any man that challenges or disagrees with your unbelief about Yeshua's Three-In-ONE Deity. .
Your habit of misrepresenting and twisting (e.g. "TOTALLY FAILED") my replies with gross exaggeration. My replies provide reasonable doubt so as to effectively disagree with your belief. A man that continually talks over and talks down to either his wife, children, best friend or myself may eventually suffer the consequences; while still blaming others as the reason for miscommunication actually due to his own false accusations.

It's just as likely that between sunset and the onset of "night" was at one time considered the end of a Hebrew day and the beginning of a new ereb to ereb 24 hour time period. A timeline understood by Abraham Ibn Ezra and possibly just as likely understood by Moshe and the Israelites. Thus it's probable that the 2nd Temple ereb to ereb 24 hr timeline was changed to begin at sunset and not at the onset of nighttime darkness.

The rationale being for practical purpose as the thousands of lambs now had to be killed by the Temple Priests which took considerably longer then when the thousands of lambs were killed by thousands of Israelites at their own homes. The duration taking no more than the last sixty minutes of the last ninety minutes of the 14th. Then in haste having made some unleavened bread before fleeing Egypt on the 15th.

Of all the Bible translations listed by Biblehub and Biblegateway none of them reads "in the afternoon" or lists an "in the afternoon" footnote when referring to Exodus 12:6, Exodus 29:39, 41, Leviticus 23:5 Numbers 9:3 or Numbers 28:4, 8. None of these Christian Bibles read "in the afternoon" so as to provide further timeline support for when both the Paschal lamb and the Lamb of G-d died in mid-afternoon. Instead several Christian Bible translations of Exodus 12:6 read "at twilight" as well does the Jerusalem Publication Society's 1985 edition. GO FIGURE!

You must have pondered why MJs don't quote these Torah scriptures when the lambs are slain from Chabad's "The Complete Tanach with Rashi's Commentary" that reads "in the afternoon." Perhaps, CF restricts MJs quoting from Chabad's The Complete Tanach with Rashi's Commentary which would actually support the timeline of the killing of the Pascal lamb at approximately the same time as the death of the crucified Lamb of G-d and the same timeline as the Israelites killing the Passover lambs before leaving Egypt.

So either you agree to disagree and stop misinterpreting my posts or consider the real possibility that during the time of Moshe and the Israelites first Passover that a 24 hour ereb/evening ... to ... ereb/evening began well after sunset (90 minutes) at the onset of night (no lingering daylight in the nighttime sky) and not at sunset or when the first 3 stars are faintly visible.

gadar perets · Mar 24, 2018

AbbaLove said:
Yes (sorry to say), that i've come to reject more than embrace your "afternoon"
meaning of "between the evenings" timeline of Exodus 12:6 for 3 reasons ...

You don't believe that Yeshua is the physical manifestation of Incarnate G-d, and instead refer to Yeshua as an "elohim" (all lower case letters) and apparently been warned by CF. This raises a yellow caution flag, if not a red warning to beware.

You come across as if don't think it's possible for a woman to be more knowledgeable about the Bible than you nor for that matter any man that challenges or disagrees with your unbelief about Yeshua's Three-In-ONE Deity. .

Your habit of misrepresenting and twisting (e.g. "TOTALLY FAILED") my replies with gross exaggeration. My replies provide reasonable doubt so as to effectively disagree with your belief. A man that continually talks over and talks down to either his wife, children, best friend or myself may eventually suffer the consequences; while still blaming others as the reason for miscommunication actually due to his own false accusations.

Just another opportunity for you to make personal attacks instead of addressing the Scriptures.

AbbaLove · Mar 25, 2018

gadar perets said:
Just another opportunity for you to make personal attacks instead of addressing the Scriptures.

Look who's talking

The seventh plague brought hail upon Egypt's flax and barley crop before it was fully ripened and ready for harvest (Exodus 9:31). This brings up the possibility that the word "Abib" (Exodus 13:4) was actually an Egyptian word for the month of their barley harvest in Egypt.

One thing we can agree on is that the manna didn't have any yeast. The Israelites didn't eat any bread leavened with yeast while wandering 40 years in the wilderness (Exodus 13:3).

AbbaLove · Mar 25, 2018

Steve Petersen said:
God gave the Torah to the Jewish people and he gave the priests and elders the authority to interpret it (Deuteronomy 1

When G‑d created time, there was darkness before light and then daylight when G-d created a 12 hour nighttime and a 12 hr daytime. A Jewish calendar date begins with night. Night is defined as the absence of light. So when exactly does “night” begin? Obviously not at sunset as light still illuminates the sky. When does darkness cover the land … at civil twilight, nautical twilight or astronomical twilight?

When the exact moment of Night — and the next calendar date —
begins has been disputed for ages by the Jewish Sages.

VZ5j1UpHy3ZSLbXkyJgnU7pMCfVZ8kNQp0gcNbFo3b9dgYTuD8iUx9V6z7lhB73fIqqECaxvtT8_RhUqsq9ODVcovxiODXBC4UQKQBHqdQdD85KiNZVwVQ3m1EXSJpLxAfa5qWRK

The twilight period, from sunset ("shekiah") until three stars are visible in the sky ("tzeit hakochavim"), is an "iffy" time period, known as "bein hashmashot." Shabbat and all the holidays begin at sunset, and end when three stars are first visible in the sky the next evening, the current definition of the beginning of Night in Israel. However, the sky is still partially illuminated with the last rays of light during Nautical twilight.

Abraham Ibn Ezra figured that the onset of Night began 90 minutes after sunset. His calculation of the beginning of Night is the same as what is now referred to as the end of Astronomical Twilight and the beginning of Night.

Civil twilight occurs between sunset and when the sun 6 degrees below the horizon. Civil Twilight is a duration of 30 minutes. Civil twilight plus Nautical twilight is a duration of 60 minutes after sunset. Astronomical twilight ends and Night begins when the sun is 18 degrees below the horizon or 90 minutes after sunset.

Debate-For MJ's Only A NEW Torah Hebrew Day Didn't Begin At Sunset

When Did A New Hebrew Day Begin According To The TORAH ?

At Sunset Before Any Stars Are Visible

After Sunset When Three Stars Are Visible

Sixty to Ninety Minutes After Sunset

Circumcism Of The Heart

Senior Veteran

Circumcism Of The Heart

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Circumcism Of The Heart

Senior Veteran

Messianic Hebrew

Messianic Hebrew

Active Member

Active Member

Active Member

Active Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Circumcism Of The Heart

Circumcism Of The Heart

Messianic Hebrew

Circumcism Of The Heart

Circumcism Of The Heart

Similar threads