Crucifixion Day

WebersHome · Mar 22, 2018

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● Matt 12:40 . . As Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

If we reckon Sunday to be the third day; then:

Saturday would've been the second day, and Friday the first.

Saturday night would've been the third night, Friday night the second, and Thursday night the first.

The so-called last supper would've taken took place Wednesday night.

Jesus' interview with Pilate would've taken place Thursday morning and he would've been executed that afternoon.

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FireDragon76 · Mar 22, 2018

I think its noteworthy that Matthew copies from the Septuagint, where Jonah is only in the whale for 3 days, vs. the masoretic text.

Doug Melven · Mar 22, 2018

John 19:31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

This wasn't a regular weekly Sabbath. It could have been on a different day other than the 7th day.

dreadnought · Mar 22, 2018

WebersHome said:
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● Matt 12:40 . . As Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

If we reckon Sunday to be the third day; then:

Saturday would've been the second day, and Friday the first.

Saturday night would've been the third night, Friday night the second, and Thursday night the first.

The so-called last supper would've taken took place Wednesday night.

Jesus' interview with Pilate would've taken place Thursday morning and he would've been executed that afternoon.

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No, I believe Jesus was crucified Friday and resurrected Sunday. It's a little confusing since it doesn't sound like he was dead for three full days, but that is what I have been taught.

Hank77 · Mar 22, 2018

Or John calls it a high/great/large day because it was a regular Sabbath, the first day of the passover festival the 15th of Abib, and that evening the priest would cut the fruits of the harvest to be lifted up as the wave offering on the morrow after the Sabbath.

WebersHome · Mar 22, 2018

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● Matt 12:40 . . For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Any child able to do simple arithmetic on the fingers of one hand can instantly deduce that Good Friday doesn't fit Matt 12:40 because there just isn't enough nights between Friday and Sunday-- there's only two; Jesus' prediction calls for three. The Good Friday model comes up short because it omits one of the two sabbaths during the week that Jesus was crucified.

There are more sabbaths in the Bible besides the usual seventh day. For example:

Yom Kippur (Lev 23:32)
Feast of Trumpets (Lev 23:23-25)
Feast of Unleavened Bread; a,k.a. Passover. (Ex 12:16, Lev 23:5-8)

Passover sabbath is interesting. The usual sabbath always falls on the very same day of the week every time. But Passover sabbath floats because the feast of Unleavened Bread is keyed to the lunar cycle; hence Passover sabbath can, and it does, occur on any given day of the week; sometimes even coincident with the usual sabbath; for example 2018, and sometimes consecutive with the usual sabbath; for example 2008.

● John 19:31 . . Now since it was preparation day, in order that the bodies might not remain on the cross on the sabbath-- for the sabbath day of that week was a solemn one --the Jews asked Pilate that their legs be broken and they be taken down.

The solemn sabbath that John mentioned is the Passover sabbath. It was consecutive with the regular sabbath that year. As a result the Jews had to observe two sabbaths in a row.

Weaving the Passover sabbath into the chronology of Matt 12:40 in order to obtain a third night is actually fairly easy once you're made aware of it. But be forewarned; there are a number of Good Friday's resolute defenders who refuse to allow the solemn sabbath to be other than the usual sabbath; and they've concocted some very convincing sophistry to support their view; by doing so they've chained themselves to a model that cannot, by any sensible stretch of the imagination, produce a third night.

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sparow · Mar 22, 2018

Hank77 said:
Or John calls it a high/great/large day because it was a regular Sabbath, the first day of the passover festival the 15th of Abib, and that evening the priest would cut the fruits of the harvest to be lifted up as the wave offering on the morrow after the Sabbath.

With computers the way they are today they should be able to work out what day was the Pass Over and whether it preceded the regular Sabbath, in ant case Jesus appears to have celebrated the Passover a day early.

WebersHome · Mar 22, 2018

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dreadnought said:
I believe Jesus was crucified Friday and resurrected Sunday. It's a little confusing since it doesn't sound like he was dead for three full days, but that is what I have been taught.

The preponderance of evidence indicates that Christ's crucified dead body returned to life on the third day rather than after the third day was completely over and done with. In other words: he wasn't dead a full three days.

Matt 17:22-23
Mark 9:31
Luke 9:22
Luke 24:46
Acts 10:40
1 Cor 15:4

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WebersHome · Mar 22, 2018

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sparow said:
Jesus appears to have celebrated the Passover a day early.

Jesus and his men ate their Passover dinner the night of his arrest. (Matt 26:17-20, Mark 14:12-17, and Luke 22:7-15)

The Jews ate their Passover after he was dead and buried. (John 13:1-2, John 18:28-29, John 19:13-14, and John 19:31)

The Jews were somehow unaware that their religious calendar was tardy the year that Christ was crucified. He, being a prophet in direct contact with God, would of course have known the precise moment that Passover that year was supposed to begin; which is no doubt at least one of the reasons why Christ ate his own Passover before the Jews ate theirs.

Ironically, the Jews were careful to avoid going after Jesus during Passover.

● Matt 26:3-5 . .Then the chief priests and the elders of the people assembled in the palace of the high priest, whose name was Caiaphas, and they plotted to arrest Jesus in some sly way and kill him. But not during the feast-- they said --or there may be a riot among the people.

Due to their religious calendar's error, the Jews inadvertently crucified Jesus during the very season they wanted to avoid.

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Hank77 · Mar 22, 2018

sparow said:
With computers the way they are today they should be able to work out what day was the Pass Over and whether it preceded the regular Sabbath, in ant case Jesus appears to have celebrated the Passover a day early.

We could, and NASA has a very good site to do that, but we don't know the year for sure either. If we knew the year it would be simple.

Presbyterian Continuist · Mar 22, 2018

dreadnought said:
No, I believe Jesus was crucified Friday and resurrected Sunday. It's a little confusing since it doesn't sound like he was dead for three full days, but that is what I have been taught.

This was certainly not the normal weekly Sabbath. It was Passover, and therefore the sabbath would have started as early as the Thursday, Jesus would have been crucified on the Thursday, and put in the tomb on Thursday evening before sundown. A rudimentary knowledge of Jewish culture and practice would show that.

dreadnought · Mar 23, 2018

Oscarr said:
This was certainly not the normal weekly Sabbath. It was Passover, and therefore the sabbath would have started as early as the Thursday, Jesus would have been crucified on the Thursday, and put in the tomb on Thursday evening before sundown. A rudimentary knowledge of Jewish culture and practice would show that.

And yet I believe most Christians are taught he was crucified on Friday. They must have a reason for believing this.

WebersHome · Mar 23, 2018

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dreadnought said:
I believe most Christians are taught he was crucified on Friday.

While discussing Good Friday with one of its defenders, my opponent suggested that the darkness that took place while Jesus was nailed to the cross was one of the three nights that he predicted at Matt 12:40.

Well; of course that doesn't work because Jesus was alive during those hours of darkness on the cross. The three nights he predicted at Matt 12:40 were to take place while he was deceased and tucked away in the heart of the earth.

Now when you think about it; Jesus' corpse was never in the heart of the earth. It wasn't even in the earth's soil. His corpse was laid to rest on the surface of the earth in a rock-hewn tomb.

Jesus compared his experience with Jonah's nautical adventure. A careful examination of the finer points of the second chapter of his prophecy reveals that although Jonah was alive while in the fish, he wasn't alive the whole time. No, at some point in his ordeal, Jonah went to a place called sheol, which he described as the bottoms of the mountains.

Well; even a school kid with an elementary knowledge of science knows that the bottoms of the mountains aren't in the tummy of a fish; nor are the bottoms of the mountains in the sea. No; the bottoms of the mountains are many, many, miles below both the fish and the sea.

If what I'm saying here is true, then at some point in his adventure; Jonah was quite dead.

"To the roots of the mountains I sank down; the earth beneath barred me in forever. But you brought my life up from the pit, O Yhvh my God. (Jonah 2:6)

The Hebrew word translated "pit" sometimes refers to putrefaction. In other words "brought up my life" speaks of Jonah's resurrection.

According to Ps 16:8-10 and Acts 2:25-31 Jesus too was spared putrefaction by means of his resurrection.

According to Matt 10:28, the body and the soul are perishable. However; though the body is perishable by any means, the soul is perishable only by divine means; i.e. the deaths of body and soul aren't simultaneous, which readily indicates that once the body and the soul are separated, it becomes possible to relocate the soul. In the cases of Jonah and Jesus; their souls were transferred to the bottoms of the mountains.

This it all came to pass just as predicted: "as Jonah . . . so the Son of Man."

Both underwent death, both were buried, both spent some time in the netherworld, and both their bodies were raised from the dead within the space of three days and three nights.

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sparow · Mar 23, 2018

WebersHome said:
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The preponderance of evidence indicates that Christ's crucified dead body returned to life on the third day rather than after the third day was completely over and done with. In other words: he wasn't dead a full three days.

Matt 17:22-23
Mark 9:31
Luke 9:22
Luke 24:46
Acts 10:40
1 Cor 15:4

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I doubt that the scriptures are that conclusive but the proof was for the Pharisees Jesus was talking to; those Pharisees who will be alive when Jesus returns; Iam sure Jesus provided the proof.

WebersHome · Mar 23, 2018

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sparow said:
I doubt that the scriptures are that conclusive

Maybe you don't believe them; but I sure do. For me the scriptures below are very conclusive that Christ's crucified dead body returned to life on the third day.

● Matt 17:22-23 . . Jesus said unto them: The Son of man shall be betrayed into the hands of men: and they shall kill him, and the third day he shall be raised again.

● Mark 9:31 . . He taught his disciples, and said unto them: The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day.

● Luke 24:21-23 . .We trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, today is the third day since these things were done. Yea, and certain women also of our company made us astonished, which were early at the sepulcher; and when they found not his body, they came, saying, that they had also seen a vision of angels, which said that he was alive.

● Luke 24:46 . . He said unto them: Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day

● Acts 10:40 . . God raised him up the third day

● 1Cor 15:4 . . he rose again the third day

It would take a pretty clever amalgam of sophistry and double speak to make those passages say that Christ rose from the dead on any other day but the third.

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sparow · Mar 24, 2018

WebersHome said:
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Maybe you don't believe them; but I sure do. For me the scriptures below are very conclusive that Christ's crucified dead body returned to life on the third day.

● Matt 17:22-23 . . Jesus said unto them: The Son of man shall be betrayed into the hands of men: and they shall kill him, and the third day he shall be raised again.

● Mark 9:31 . . He taught his disciples, and said unto them: The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day.

● Luke 24:21-23 . .We trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, today is the third day since these things were done. Yea, and certain women also of our company made us astonished, which were early at the sepulcher; and when they found not his body, they came, saying, that they had also seen a vision of angels, which said that he was alive.

● Luke 24:46 . . He said unto them: Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day

● Acts 10:40 . . God raised him up the third day

● 1Cor 15:4 . . he rose again the third day

It would take a pretty clever amalgam of sophistry and double speak to make those passages say that Christ rose from the dead on any other day but the third.

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I believe the scripture up until I have reason to be suspicious. For us what is important is that He shed His blood for the remission of sin and that He rose from the dead. The sign He gave the Pharisees was three days and three nights.

Matthew 12:39-40 (NKJV)
39 But He answered and said to them, "An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.
40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

That sign was given to the Pharisees who will be alive when Christ returns; I expect Christ completed that sign. However the term “the third day” is of special significance to us; but I do not know what:

Exodus 19:11 (NKJV)
11 And let them be ready for the third day. For on the third day the LORD will come down upon Mount Sinai in the sight of all the people.

Hosea 6:2-3 (NKJV)
2 After two days He will revive us; On the third day He will raise us up, That we may live in His sight.
3 Let us know, Let us pursue the knowledge of the LORD. His going forth is established as the morning; He will come to us like the rain, Like the latter and former rain to the earth.

It is most likely Jesus was put in the grave Wednesday evening and rose Saturday evening and found risen or missing on Sunday morning; this does not dispute rising on the third day.

WebersHome · Mar 24, 2018

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I've participated on several Good Friday forums in the last 21 years and it never fails that somebody comes along to muddy the waters with 24-hour civil time and/or Nisan dating; thus making it virtually impossible for curious visitors to make any sense out of the chronology of Christ's crucifixion and resurrection.

Jesus Christ-- whom John 1:1-3 and John 1:14 testify is God --was a citizen in the land of Israel 2,000 years ago; so I think that he, as both God and citizen, would know better than anybody alive today how to count and/or define days and nights back then.

According to Jesus Christ's understanding-- as both God and citizen --days were when the sun is up and nights were when the sun is down.

"Are there not twelve hours in the day? If anyone walks in the day, he does not stumble, because he sees the light of this world. But if anyone walks in the night, he stumbles, because the light is not in him." (John 11:9-10)

This world's light is of course the sun as per Gen 1:14-18. So then, "day" is when the sun is up rather than when the sun is not up; i.e. day is daytime and night is nighttime; viz: the three days and three nights of Matt 12:40 indicate three times when the sun was up, and three times when the sun was down; i.e. relative to Christ's crucifixion and resurrection: days begin with sunrise and nights begin with sundown.

NOTE: Days divided into twelve equal periods of sunlight were regulated by what's known as temporal hours; which vary in length in accordance with the time of year. There are times of the year at Jerusalem's latitude when this world's light consists of less than 12 normal hours of sun, and sometimes more; but when Jesus was here; the official number of hours was always twelve regardless.

I don't exactly know why the Jews of that era divided their days into twelve equal periods of sunlight regardless of the seasons, but I suspect it was just a convenient way to operate the government and conduct civil affairs; including the Temple's activities (e.g. the daily morning and evening sacrifices)

Anyway; I trust God's intelligence; and I believe in His son Jesus Christ. I don't think either one of them are ever wrong about anything, especially something as elementary as the properties of day and night.

"God called the light day, and the darkness He called night." (Gen 1:5)

In order to avoid confusion over the meanings of day and night relative to Christ's crucifixion and resurrection, I highly recommend that we avoid thinking in terms of 24-hour civil time and/or creation's evening and morning criteria. I suggest that we fall in line with Christ's definition because who better than anyone else is qualified to tell us how to understand the beginning and the ending of days and nights as they were understood during the years when he himself was living in Israel.

It's not too difficult to appreciate just how serious this is relative to the outside world. If they can be persuaded to mock Easter week's sequence of events, then they can be just as easily persuaded that Jesus' resurrection never happened.

As a result they will miss the opportunity to be exonerated per Rom 4:25. A record of their sins will remain on the books, hanging over their heads like a sword of Damocles. Out ahead, at the great white throne event depicted at Rev 20:11-15, those books will be opened for review and used as an indictment to justify sentencing them to a mode of death akin to a foundry worker falling into a kettle of molten iron.

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1213 · Mar 25, 2018

WebersHome said:
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● Matt 12:40 . . As Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

If we reckon Sunday to be the third day; then:

Saturday would've been the second day, and Friday the first.

Saturday night would've been the third night, Friday night the second, and Thursday night the first.

The so-called last supper would've taken took place Wednesday night...
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The day of crucifixion was Wednesday. And Jesus rose from the death during Saturday and tomb was found empty at Sunday morning. Passover Shabbat day was Thursday and after that it was preparation day for weekly Shabbat. Before weekly Shabbat disciples prepared the things that they were going to take to Jesus after Shabbat at Sunday morning.

Presbyterian Continuist · Mar 26, 2018

dreadnought said:
And yet I believe most Christians are taught he was crucified on Friday. They must have a reason for believing this.

Came about through a lack of knowledge of Jewish culture.

WebersHome · Mar 26, 2018

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There's quite a bit of controversy related to the time of the women's arrival at the cemetery; for example Matt 28:1

"In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulcher."

The Greek word translated "came" is ambiguous. It can not only mean came, but also went, i.e. it can indicate travel as well as arrival and/or coming as well as going. Here's the same verse from another translation.

"After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb."

Seeing as how the preponderance of evidence indicates that Jesus' dead body revived on the third day rather than during the third night, i.e. when the sun was up rather than when the sun was not up, then it's safe to conclude, in this case at least, that "went" is the appropriate translation of the Greek word erchomai, i.e. the women left their homes at first light; by the time they met together and journeyed to the cemetery, the sun was fully up and Jesus was gone..

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