Liberal Christians - What Do You Mean?

betterorworse · Mar 21, 2018

John 3:12

W2L · Mar 21, 2018

This definition refers to "principle of divine reason".

Lo·gos
ˈlōɡōs/
noun
THEOLOGY

the Word of God, or principle of divine reason and creative order, identified in the Gospel of John with the second person of the Trinity incarnate in Jesus Christ.
- (in Jungian psychology) the principle of reason and judgment, associated with the animus.

redleghunter · Mar 21, 2018

hedrick said:
Huh? I call myself a Christian because I'm a follower of Jesus. Luke tell us (Luke 1:1-3) that he acted like any historian: gathering evidence. Paul distinguishes between his own opinion and Jesus' teachings that had been handed down to him. (1 Cor 7:12). These were good guys doing their best to tell us what they knew about Jesus. But they were still human, with normal human limitations, depending upon human witnesses. I don't see any reason why that makes me a non-Christian. Our faith is in Christ, not the Bible.

You quote Scriptures but don't hold them as Holy Spirit inspired. Forgive me I might have read your comments incorrectly.

FireDragon76 · Mar 21, 2018

Tree of Life said:
Well...

My view on the Bible is that it is the word of God. For this reason, I call myself a Christian.

If you call yourself a Christian but you do not believe the Bible is God's word, then what do you mean by "Christian"?

Believing in/following Jesus isn't sufficient?

redleghunter · Mar 21, 2018

danbuter said:
God inspired men to write the Bible. He didn't just *zap* it into existence. Ergo, even inspired men have biases that might creep into what they are writing, so taking every passage literally is not the correct thing to do.

Prophets in OT spoke "thus saith YHWH" and the Apostles were commissioned directly by Christ to speak His truth. Then the Holy Spirit clothed them in His Power to speak and preach the truth.

It's not like the Apostles are like the internet YouTube phonies today expounding on their own eisegesis.

Tree of Life · Mar 21, 2018

FireDragon76 said:
Believing in/following Jesus isn't sufficient?

Do you follow Jesus in his view of the Bible? Jesus' View of Scripture

betterorworse · Mar 21, 2018

2 Timothy 3:16

FireDragon76 · Mar 21, 2018

Tree of Life said:
Do you follow Jesus in his view of the Bible? Jesus' View of Scripture

Why should I assume your take on Jesus view of the scriptures is the true one?

Jesus wasn't some kind of Princeton Theologian. He was a handyman/day laborer steeped in his Jewish culture. Of course he would quote from the Scriptures. But he did not use the Scriptures the way religious authorities of his day did, and I'm unconvinced Jesus would approve of how Christian Fundamenatalists responded to modernity.

People did not come to believe in Jesus because he was a theologian with a systematic theology that answered every possible question about human conduct and belief. They came to believe in him because they saw something special in him as a person, a sense of God's presence that they did not experience through the old synagogue and temple system.

betterorworse · Mar 21, 2018

Matthew 17:3

redleghunter · Mar 21, 2018

Phil 1:21 said:
Short answer: A lot of people want Jesus as the Savior, but not nearly as many want Him as their Lord.

Indeed. If the Scriptures are not God's infallible teachings then things become "debatable" and quite frankly fungible.

This leads to everyone can define Christ according to their own image.

redleghunter · Mar 21, 2018

Tree of Life said:
I'm constantly surprised to see posters on here who are identified as some form of Christian and yet deny basic biblical doctrines and deny the truth of the Scriptures.

If you identify as a Christian and you know that you're "to the left" - you deny Biblical inerrancy, you deny classic orthodox doctrines, etc... - what do you mean when you say: "I'm a Christian"? Why do you identify as a Christian if you don't believe that the Bible is the word of God?

Maybe something to help along in the friendly debate:

Christianity vs. Jesusanity: The Postmodern Temptation

redleghunter · Mar 21, 2018

Apologetic_Warrior said:
Interesting point, personally I affirm both literal and figurative language usage in Scripture.

And knowing when the authors are using such.

FireDragon76 · Mar 21, 2018

redleghunter said:
Indeed. If the Scriptures are not God's infallible teachings then things become "debatable" and quite frankly fungible.

This leads to everyone can define Christ according to their own image.

Is that really what we should do as a follower, to "define" somebody, let alone somebody we identify as God?

redleghunter · Mar 21, 2018

FireDragon76 said:
Is that really what we should do as a follower, to "define" somebody, let alone somebody we identify as God?

Of course not. I hope my statement was not unclear. We find the truth of God in Holy Scriptures where as He reveals Himself as Light and Truth. My point is for those who do not believe the written Holy Scriptures are God's infallible revelation to us, then that can lead some to define God to be what they want Him to be. Which is idolatry.

FireDragon76 · Mar 21, 2018

redleghunter said:
Maybe something to help along in the friendly debate:

Christianity vs. Jesusanity: The Postmodern Temptation

If you are trying to honestly engage in dialogue with liberal/progressive Christians, Albert Mohler is not an authority I would turn to, to convince us of the error of our ways.

redleghunter · Mar 21, 2018

tulc said:
And I have no problem with people who believe the way you do, but can we disagree about what "the Word of God" is and still acknowledge each other as being Christians who want to serve the Lord as much as we can? See, that's where my trouble starts: it's when people make the claim that the ONLY way to understand Scripture and who God is is the way they understand them. I find that idea tends to lead some very...unpleasant situations for a lot of people.

I get that and let me also explain: I read and cherish my Bible every day, I think it represents hundreds of years of different people trying their best to serve and follow the Lord and as such it's a very important thing to understand and read, I do not however see it as the be all and end all of our relationship with God. I don't dismiss the Bible, I simply want it to be seen for what it is: it's a map TO the something I'm seeking, it's not WHAT I'm seeking. To me, too many people settle for the map when there's so much more of the "Word of God" out there.
tulc(has a lot of fun in these sorts of conversations!)

How do you test truth claims?

FireDragon76 · Mar 21, 2018

redleghunter said:
Of course not. I hope my statement was not unclear. We find the truth of God in Holy Scriptures where as He reveals Himself as Light and Truth. My point is for those who do not believe the written Holy Scriptures are God's infallible revelation to us, then that can lead some to define God to be what they want Him to be. Which is idolatry.

I think we already do that anyways. The thousands of Protestant groups demonstrate that clearly enough.

I'm not the one pretending to have objective, universal truth here. I just have my experience of the world and I have to try to be honest with myself in that.

Zoii · Mar 21, 2018

Tree of Life said:
It sounds to me like you believe in yourself. Does your Jesus ever disagree with anything you say or think? If not, could it be that you actually worship yourself rather than the living God?

Oh I'm not concerned by conceited words declaring a monopoly on the understanding of God... I've had similar comments to yours supporting a flat earth, that women shouldn't work, and that God advocates the carrying of guns. So your criticisms of my faith simply fall into the bucket of the arrogant

W2L · Mar 21, 2018

John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.

betterorworse · Mar 21, 2018

2 Peter 3:8

Liberal Christians - What Do You Mean?

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