A land without walls

Douggg · Mar 18, 2018

Brian Mcnamee said:
Now the theory that the EU would take over also assumed that they would rise in economic power and military power while the US declined. In reality all the nations of the earth including the EU with Greece, Portugal, Ireland and Spain are already facing economic collapse.

Brian, it's going to be a different world following Gog/Magog. So I think we have consider.... (I think I will start a new thread so everyone can put in their two bits).

1. the period before Gog/Magog - where we are now. What could materialize.
2. the period after Gog/Magog - when the world thinks it has entered the messianic age.
3. the period when the Day of the Lord begins - by the Antichrist revealing himself to be the man of sin.

In the days of the ten kings (implied in by the ten toes in Daniel 2 being the same ten kings in Daniel 7 of the fourth kingdom) the Kingdom of God will be established here on earth.

That fourth kingdom in Daniel 2, in its last stages, is made up of iron and clay (nations, it would appear). As you point out Greece, Portugal, Ireland, Spain are weak facing financial collapse. I would include Italy in that group.

So the EU is entering a crisis period, imo, and some catalyst event is going to move them to the next and final stage of the ten leader form of government.

Brian Mcnamee · Mar 18, 2018

Douggg said:
Brian, it's going to be a different world following Gog/Magog. So I think we have consider.... (I think I will start a new thread so everyone can put in their two bits).

1. the period before Gog/Magog - where we are now. What could materialize.
2. the period after Gog/Magog - when the world thinks it has entered the messianic age.
3. the period when the Day of the Lord begins - by the Antichrist revealing himself to be the man of sin.

In the days of the ten kings (implied in by the ten toes in Daniel 2 being the same ten kings in Daniel 7 of the fourth kingdom) the Kingdom of God will be established here on earth.

That fourth kingdom in Daniel 2, in its last stages, is made up of iron and clay (nations, it would appear). As you point out Greece, Portugal, Ireland, Spain are weak facing financial collapse. I would include Italy in that group.

So the EU is entering a crisis period, imo, and some catalyst event is going to move them to the next and final stage of the ten leader form of government.

Hi I track with with on most of the scriptures you have put together but still see the UN being the governing authority and the EU one on 10 regional kingdoms. What do you think in Dan 2 is mingling with the seed of man but will not adhere to one another? If it is mingling with man it is not man.

Douggg · Mar 18, 2018

Brian Mcnamee said:
Hi I track with with on most of the scriptures you have put together but still see the UN being the governing authority and the EU one on 10 regional kingdoms. What do you think in Dan 2 is mingling with the seed of man but will not adhere to one another? If it is mingling with man it is not man.

imo, it is referring to different cultures not mixing well. I asked a rabbi how the Jews interpret those words and he said the same thing - mingling with the seed of man - as being trying to mix people of different cultures..

Which, if that is the correct interpretation, seems to fit the countries in the EU. I don't ever see a global one world as a world without borders - as far as free flow between countries, like in the EU.

Some of the other rationale I think it is the EU, is in Daniel 8:23, the little horn stands up at the end of "their" kingdom, when the transgressors have come to a full. What I take that to mean as being at the latter time of the EU, it's final stage, when the ten leaders are in place and the little horn over them.

8:23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.

The transgressors are the little horn, who commits the transgression of desolation, in Daniel 8:12-13, and the ten kings who align themselves with him.

12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

When it says "shall stand up" in verse 23, that is an idiom for prepares to go to war, battle, like two animals standing on their hind legs about to charge into each other.

So going back to Daniel 8:9, where the little horn heads south and east toward the promised land with a huge army (waxes strong) from the geographic location of one of the former Greek empire break up kingdoms - which I take to be Greece..... we have to ask why? To attack Israel would be one possibility. But there are other alternative reasons. Which imo is the little horn will move into the middle east to grab up - err, secure peace in the region - oil.

One of the things that is not going appear in the text in Daniel 8, is that one of the requirements the Jews have of the messiah (summarized by the Rambam) is that he fights the battles of God in defending Israel.

So to them, if the little horn stages his army in Greece as a deterrent to Gog's invasion - it would appear to them that he is doing what the messiah is supposed to do.

After God supernaturally destroys Gog's army, and the little horn and his army move into the middle in the aftermath - it seems to me that he meets the criteria for being the "prince who shall come" in Daniel 9 from the people who destroyed the temple and city back in 70 AD the Romans.

The EU, in it original form was created by the treaties of Rome, btw. It's at their website.

shilohsfoal · Mar 18, 2018

Servant232 said:
There are Israeli "settlements" in the West Bank and if it were not for the USA, there wouldn't be a plan, now most commonly referred to as the "two state solution" that was first mentioned as a solution to the non-problem, (let them return to Jordon, Egypt and Syria where they belong, the sooner for them the better) by george w bush in the roadmap for peace speech he gave on 24 June 2002

The Roadmap for peace or road map for peace (Hebrew: מפת הדרכים‎ Mapa had'rakhim, Arabic: خارطة طريق السلام‎ Khāriṭa ṭarīq as-salāmu) was a plan to resolve the Israeli–Palestinian conflict proposed by the Quartet on the Middle East: the United States, the European Union, Russia and the United Nations. The principles of the plan, originally drafted by U.S. Foreign Service Officer Donald Blome, were first outlined by U.S. President George W. Bush in a speech on 24 June 2002, in which he called for an independent Palestinian state living side by side with Israel in peace.

The US has led the world to divide His Land. Zechariah 14:12

The destruction of the second temple on 8/4/70 until the roadmap for peace speech on 6/24/2002 =
Result: 705,609 days < Link

There are 31,102 verses in the Bible

705609/31102 ~ Remainder 21365

Verse 21365| Eze 36:5 Therefore thus saith Adonai YHWH; Surely in the fire of My jealousy have I spoken against the residue of the heathen, and against all Idumea, which have appointed My Land into their possession with the joy of all their heart, with despiteful minds, to cast it out for a prey.

The Prey is the LAND

The Nations have spoken Joel 3:1-2 Joel 3:6

Never fear.Donald Trumps peace plan will devide the land .
Daniel 11:39 KJV: Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.

shilohsfoal · Mar 18, 2018

Douggg said:
imo, it is referring to different cultures not mixing well. I asked a rabbi how the Jews interpret those words and he said the same thing - mingling with the seed of man - as being trying to mix people of different cultures..

Which, if that is the correct interpretation, seems to fit the countries in the EU. I don't ever see a global one world as a world without borders - as far as free flow between countries, like in the EU.

Some of the other rationale I think it is the EU, is in Daniel 8:23, the little horn stands up at the end of "their" kingdom, when the transgressors have come to a full. What I take that to mean as being at the latter time of the EU, it's final stage, when the ten leaders are in place and the little horn over them.

8:23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.

The transgressors are the little horn, who commits the transgression of desolation, in Daniel 8:12-13, and the ten kings who align themselves with him.

12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

When it says "shall stand up" in verse 23, that is an idiom for prepares to go to war, battle, like two animals standing on their hind legs about to charge into each other.

So going back to Daniel 8:9, where the little horn heads south and east toward the promised land with a huge army (waxes strong) from the geographic location of one of the former Greek empire break up kingdoms - which I take to be Greece..... we have to ask why? To attack Israel would be one possibility. But there are other alternative reasons. Which imo is the little horn will move into the middle east to grab up - err, secure peace in the region - oil.

One of the things that is not going appear in the text in Daniel 8, is that one of the requirements the Jews have of the messiah (summarized by the Rambam) is that he fights the battles of God in defending Israel.

So to them, if the little horn stages his army in Greece as a deterrent to Gog's invasion - it would appear to them that he is doing what the messiah is supposed to do.

After God supernaturally destroys Gog's army, and the little horn and his army move into the middle in the aftermath - it seems to me that he meets the criteria for being the "prince who shall come" in Daniel 9 from the people who destroyed the temple and city back in 70 AD the Romans.

The EU, in it original form was created by the treaties of Rome, btw. It's at their website.

The little horn moved southand east into the pleasant land long ago,.
Try came out of the Mediterranean sea.
It ha become exceedingly sstrongand somehow you have no idea who or what it is.
Tell me this.Israel has over200 nuclear warheads.What country in this world is capable of withstanding 200 nuclear warheads?
No one is the going to invade Israel without israels permission.
Now toclear one thing up.

Daniel 8:12 KJV: And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

The host is given to the little horn.It dosnt invade Israel but instead iI given to Israel and by that host the daily sacrifice is taken away.
Daniel 11:31 "His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will set up the abomination that causes desolation.

Here we see who gives the littlehorn(Israel) the host to end trdaily sacrifice.The host being given to Israel is a military.The sacrifice which is abolished iis the conscription.The offering of every male and female child to their Molech.(king).

Brian Mcnamee · Mar 18, 2018

Douggg said:
imo, it is referring to different cultures not mixing well. I asked a rabbi how the Jews interpret those words and he said the same thing - mingling with the seed of man - as being trying to mix people of different cultures..

Which, if that is the correct interpretation, seems to fit the countries in the EU. I don't ever see a global one world as a world without borders - as far as free flow between countries, like in the EU.

Some of the other rationale I think it is the EU, is in Daniel 8:23, the little horn stands up at the end of "their" kingdom, when the transgressors have come to a full. What I take that to mean as being at the latter time of the EU, it's final stage, when the ten leaders are in place and the little horn over them.

8:23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.

The transgressors are the little horn, who commits the transgression of desolation, in Daniel 8:12-13, and the ten kings who align themselves with him.

12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

When it says "shall stand up" in verse 23, that is an idiom for prepares to go to war, battle, like two animals standing on their hind legs about to charge into each other.

So going back to Daniel 8:9, where the little horn heads south and east toward the promised land with a huge army (waxes strong) from the geographic location of one of the former Greek empire break up kingdoms - which I take to be Greece..... we have to ask why? To attack Israel would be one possibility. But there are other alternative reasons. Which imo is the little horn will move into the middle east to grab up - err, secure peace in the region - oil.

One of the things that is not going appear in the text in Daniel 8, is that one of the requirements the Jews have of the messiah (summarized by the Rambam) is that he fights the battles of God in defending Israel.

So to them, if the little horn stages his army in Greece as a deterrent to Gog's invasion - it would appear to them that he is doing what the messiah is supposed to do.

After God supernaturally destroys Gog's army, and the little horn and his army move into the middle in the aftermath - it seems to me that he meets the criteria for being the "prince who shall come" in Daniel 9 from the people who destroyed the temple and city back in 70 AD the Romans.

The EU, in it original form was created by the treaties of Rome, btw. It's at their website.

ive been looking at this developing for decades and if you look at the UN on the outside of the building is the Bible verse from Isaiah and Micah about beating their swords into plowshares and learning war no more. This is a messianic verse and they are advertising that is part of their mission. Also of note a thing called the world earth charter was written by Michael Gorbachov and was placed inside of a new age ark of the covenant and carried by men holding poles and placed in the UN building. This was sponsored by Maurice strong and the UN building itself is on land donated by the Rockerfeller's . My take on Dan 2 the mingling is a merger of the great deception aka the alien arrival. The pope and many others are looking forward to disclosure or admitting we are not alone in the universe. Guys who are solid Christians LA Marzulli. Tom Horn and all speculate that the great deception that would fool even the elect is the ET aspect. These Bible believers believe they will be from another dimension not a another planet. We will see when it occurs

shilohsfoal · Mar 18, 2018

People need to uderstand 99 percent of prophecy is about Israel and the surrounding countries.Not the world.

keras · Mar 18, 2018

shilohsfoal said:
People need to uderstand 99 percent of prophecy is about Israel and the surrounding countries.Not the world.

Wrong, The Prophetic Word is about God's Plan for His righteous people, now every faithful Christian.

1 Corinthians 14:22b...... prophecy is intended for believers.

shilohsfoal · Mar 19, 2018

keras said:
Wrong, The Prophetic Word is about God's Plan for His righteous people, now every faithful Christian.

1 Corinthians 14:22b...... prophecy is intended for believers.

No.I'm,not wrong.I didn't say who prophecy was intended for as you.I said and will say again that 99 percent of prophecy is about Israel and the surounding countries.

Ezekiel 18:3 "As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, you will no longer quote this proverb in Israel.

How many times is your native country mentioned in prophecy ?

keras · Mar 19, 2018

shilohsfoal said:
No.I'm,not wrong.I didn't say who prophecy was intended for as you.I said and will say again that 99 percent of prophecy is about Israel and the surounding countries.

Well, you are right, in that God's focus on the earth is all of the holy Land area. Deuteronomy 11:11-12
But as for His focus onto people; then we know it is upon every born again Christian, Jew and Gentile, from every race, nation and language, who are now scattered around the world. Matthew 28:18-20

shilohsfoal · Mar 20, 2018

keras said:
Well, you are right, in that God's focus on the earth is all of the holy Land area. Deuteronomy 11:11-12
But as for His focus onto people; then we know it is upon every born again Christian, Jew and Gentile, from every race, nation and language, who are now scattered around the world. Matthew 28:18-20

When I had said 99 percent of prophecy is about Israel and the surrounding countries ,it was in response to earlier posts about the EU.
Not only is the EU not in scripture,itsnot even logical that the EU would be the beast because no one in the EU has the slightest bit of interest in Israel or the middle east as a whole.Russia,China,Canada.No one wants the middle east. No one even has an intetest in living there.
The only nations interested in going to Israel to destroy Israel and take the land are the surrounding Muslim,countries.
This is common sense.
So when the armies of the beast are gatherd into armegedon for war over that land,the EU isn't going to be there.They don't want it.
But who will be there are all the surrounding countries andthat is when that area(Israel and the surroudig countries)are all destroyed and made desolate without inhabitant.That is when the saints inherit the promised land.

But as for the EU.They dont have a dog in that fight.The little horn and the other ten horns who share the promised land are already there.The llittle horn invaded the pleasant land during ww2 and has become great already.
The kingdom,shall be taken from him and given to the saints.

Daniel 7:24 The ten horns are ten kings who will come from this kingdom. After them another king will arise, different from the earlier ones; he will subdue three kings.
Daniel 7:25 He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time.
Daniel 7:26 "'But the court will sit, and his power will be taken away and completely destroyed forever.
Daniel 7:27 Then the sovereignty, power and greatness of all the kingdoms under heaven will be handed over to the holy people of the Most High. His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers will worship and obey him.'

This prophecy is about Israel (the little horn)and the surrounding countries(ten horns)of which three(Syria,Jordan,and Egypt )were defeated by the little horn in 1967 when he took control of the seven hilled city of Jerusalem .

It has nothing to do with the EU.

keras · Mar 20, 2018

shilohsfoal said:
This prophecy is about Israel (the little horn)and the surrounding countries(ten horns)of which three(Syria,Jordan,and Egypt )were defeated by the little horn in 1967 when he took control of the seven hilled city of Jerusalem .

It has nothing to do with the EU.

I agree; the EU has nothing to do with any end times events. This idea is Douggg's hobby horse.

But the forthcoming attack onto the State of Israel, isn't the attack of the 'horns', it is just the Islamic nations and entities, as described in Psalms 83.

shilohsfoal · Mar 20, 2018

keras said:
I agree; the EU has nothing to do with any end times events. This idea is Douggg's hobby horse.

But the forthcoming attack onto the State of Israel, isn't the attack of the 'horns', it is just the Islamic nations and entities, as described in Psalms 83.

You believe the ten nations of psalms 83 will attack Israel next.
Do you believe the Lord will come at that time and fight against those nations?

keras · Mar 20, 2018

shilohsfoal said:
You believe the ten nations of psalms 83 will attack Israel next.
Do you believe the Lord will come at that time and fight against those nations?

Actually, only 8 nations, or peoples, are listed in Psalms 83:6-8. But we see in Jeremiah 49:34-36 and elsewhere, that it will be a confederation of Islamic entities, including Iran, that will attempt their avowed objective of 'wiping Israel of the map'.
This forthcoming attack will include nuke missiles and that will trigger the Lord's terrible Day of wrath, which will wipe them all out. Ezekiel 30:1-5, Zephaniah 1:14-18, Psalms 11:4-6, +

The Lord does not 'come' on His Day of wrath, He sends fire; Amos 1, Isaiah 66:15-16, 2 Peter 3:7, from His storehouse, the sun. Deuteronomy 32:22 & 34-35, Psalms 50:1-3

shilohsfoal · Mar 20, 2018

keras said:
Actually, only 8 nations, or peoples, are listed in Psalms 83:6-8. But we see in Jeremiah 49:34-36 and elsewhere, that it will be a confederation of Islamic entities, including Iran, that will attempt their avowed objective of 'wiping Israel of the map'.
This forthcoming attack will include nuke missiles and that will trigger the Lord's terrible Day of wrath, which will wipe them all out. Ezekiel 30:1-5, Zephaniah 1:14-18, Psalms 11:4-6, +

The Lord does not 'come' on His Day of wrath, He sends fire; Amos 1, Isaiah 66:15-16, 2 Peter 3:7, from His storehouse, the sun. Deuteronomy 32:22 & 34-35, Psalms 50:1-3

I notice you mention 2 peter3:7
So you believe the lord doesn't come on the day of the Lord?
2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare.

keras · Mar 20, 2018

shilohsfoal said:
I notice you mention 2 peter3:7
So you believe the lord doesn't come on the day of the Lord?

Here are some of the prophesies that prove the Lord does not appear on His terrible Day of wrath against the nations; Psalms 11:4-6, Psalms 18:11, Habakkuk 3:4, Amos 1:4,7, 10, 14 and 2:2,5..I shall send fire....
It will be the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster, by fire from the sun, the Day of the Lord's fiery wrath that will set the scene for all that is prophesied to happen before Jesus Returns.

shilohsfoal · Mar 21, 2018

keras said:
Here are some of the prophesies that prove the Lord does not appear on His terrible Day of wrath against the nations; Psalms 11:4-6, Psalms 18:11, Habakkuk 3:4, Amos 1:4,7, 10, 14 and 2:2,5..I shall send fire....
It will be the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster, by fire from the sun, the Day of the Lord's fiery wrath that will set the scene for all that is prophesied to happen before Jesus Returns.

Do you believe the lord returns on the day of the Lord as in 2 peter 3:10?

keras · Mar 21, 2018

shilohsfoal said:
Do you believe the lord returns on the day of the Lord as in 2 peter 3:10?

The Lord is not seen on His Day of wrath by fire from the sun. Isaiah 39:26 But as that verse does say, that is the Day He will heal His people and we know from 2 Thessalonians 1:6-10, that He will reveal His glory among His own people. To every faithful Christian.
That will happen to all who do as we are told to do, on that Day; Call upon the Name of the Lord and you will be saved. Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21

At least 7 years, I believe up to 12, must pass after the Day of vengeance and wrath, while all the prophesies about the Anti-Christ, etc, take place, THEN Jesus will Return for His Millennium reign. On the great Day of Almighty God. Revelation 16:14 and Revelation 19:11

shilohsfoal · Mar 21, 2018

keras said:
The Lord is not seen on His Day of wrath by fire from the sun. Isaiah 39:26 But as that verse does say, that is the Day He will heal His people and we know from 2 Thessalonians 1:6-10, that He will reveal His glory among His own people. To every faithful Christian.
That will happen to all who do as we are told to do, on that Day; Call upon the Name of the Lord and you will be saved. Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21

At least 7 years, I believe up to 12, must pass after the Day of vengeance and wrath, while all the prophesies about the Anti-Christ, etc, take place, THEN Jesus will Return for His Millennium reign. On the great Day of Almighty God. Revelation 16:14 and Revelation 19:11

Do you believe Jesus will be present as men are tormented with burning sulfur from the wrath of God?

Revelation 14:10 they, too, will drink the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.

keras · Mar 21, 2018

shilohsfoal said:
Do you believe Jesus will be present as men are tormented with burning sulfur from the wrath of God?

Revelation 14:10 they, too, will drink the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.

You show your confusion by quoting things that will happen during the Great Tribulation, an event several years later than the Day of the Lord's wrath; the Sixth Seal.
Jesus is not revealed to the world until His Return in glory. He will be seen by His people soon after the Sixth Seal, standing on Mt Zion; Revelation 14:1, as He selects the 144,000 from out of the vast multitude of faithful Christians, Revelation 7:9
Probably in a similar way as what Paul saw on the Damascus Road.

Rev 14:10 is a promise of what will happen to those who take the mark of the beast. At the Great White Throne Judgement.

A land without walls

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Well-Known Member

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Jacks or better to open

Jacks or better to open

Well-Known Member

Jacks or better to open

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

Jacks or better to open

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

Jacks or better to open

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

Jacks or better to open

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

Jacks or better to open

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

Jacks or better to open

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

Jacks or better to open

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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