Who does this verse refer to?

OldWiseGuy

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The Jews and indirectly the Gentiles who are saved by the Jewish Messiah. If it did not include the Gentiles Paul would not have used it in his argument for the salvation of both Jew and Gentile.

Rom 9:23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on vessels of kindness, that He before prepared for glory, whom also He did call--us--
Rom 9:24 not only out of Jews, but also out of nations,

The first few verses of Romans 9 seem like Paul is clearly defining Israel as who he is addressing, not the Gentiles.
 
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PesachPup

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Romans 9:25
As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
It will be the culmination of all of biblical history and prophecy. In the valley of jezreel, at the battle of Armageddon, the houses of Israel and Judah will no more be divided, but will be one people, under one king, and one God. The vessels of wrath mentioned there in chapter 9 of Romans are the house of Israel, deserving of God s wrath, but spared so that God's mercy may come upon all, Jews and Gentiles. The lost sheep of the house of Israel have a lost identity (as children of Jacob) to the world, but not to God. Their reunification will begin, in noticeable fashion, during the great tribulation, At the time of Jacobs trouble. They will number as the sands of the sea, when their judgment begins. The remnant shall come forth when the Deliverer comes forth from Zion to remove ungodliness from Jacob. Like, i said, the whole of the bible will culminate in their perpetual union as one people, when the house of Israel shall be no more two houses, but one.

The PuP
 
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seventysevens

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But the reference in Hosea isn't about the Gentiles but refers specifically to the "the house of Israel" (the northern kingdom).
The question is about the scripture Romans 9:25 which is answered , and scripture itself is quite clear - it is showing that there will be "the house of Israel" that thinks they have obtained holy righteousness through "works" which will result in the majority of the "the house of Israel" being wiped out( they have rejected Jesus as messiah) and only a remnant will obtain holy righteousness in the same way that the Gentile church obtains holy righteousness

Which is through faith in Messiah Jesus Grace given unto us - Hosea makes reference the Lord punishing "the house of Israel" and speaks to the remnant that has repented and has sought a holy righteousness through accepting Messiah Jesus as savoir as she is comforted in the (end times wilderness) waiting the return of Jesus
 
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keras

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Why do you think this means "the holy land"?
Because of the reference to the very place, in Romans 9:26a The place where the Israelites were told; you are no people of Mine.
Also the many prophesies about the Lord's people living in all of the holy Land in the end times.
But the reference in Hosea isn't about the Gentiles but refers specifically to "the house of Israel" (the northern kingdom).
Those who must have an 'Israel' on earth, so they can sit up in heaven, just don't see this point. They have to think that the 12 tribes are now just the Jewish people.
That this idea is totally wrong, is easily proven by the scriptures saying how the true Israel is now an uncountable multitude. Judah is just 2 of the tribes, the Jews admit this fact, but keep quiet about it because so many Christians support the Jewish State of Israel, thinking they are obeying God's Commandment to bless Israel.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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The question is about the scripture Romans 9:25 which is answered , and scripture itself is quite clear - it is showing that there will be "the house of Israel" that thinks they have obtained holy righteousness through "works" which will result in the majority of the "the house of Israel" being wiped out( they have rejected Jesus as messiah) and only a remnant will obtain holy righteousness in the same way that the Gentile church obtains holy righteousness

Which is through faith in Messiah Jesus Grace given unto us - Hosea makes reference the Lord punishing "the house of Israel" and speaks to the remnant that has repented and has sought a holy righteousness through accepting Messiah Jesus as savoir as she is comforted in the (end times wilderness) waiting the return of Jesus

But the "house of Israel", the northern kingdom, went into captivity long before Jesus appeared. It was the Jews who rejected him. Jesus then went and preached to the "lost sheep of the house of Israel", remnants of the northern kingdom who were scattered throughout the Gentile countries in the region.
 
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seventysevens

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But the "house of Israel", the northern kingdom, went into captivity long before Jesus appeared. It was the Jews who rejected him. Jesus then went and preached to the "lost sheep of the house of Israel", remnants of the northern kingdom who were scattered throughout the Gentile countries in the region.
Believe that which makes you happy ;) - the question you asked is answered within the scripture chapter you posted
 
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Hank77

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The first few verses of Romans 9 seem like Paul is clearly defining Israel as who he is addressing, not the Gentiles.
He is addressing the Jews, that is who needed to hear the argument that God was now bringing the Gentiles into the His Church, His chosen people, along with the believing OT and NT Jews, His chosen people. This appears to be the conclusion of the argument that he as made in the previous chapters.

Rom 9:30 What, then, shall we say? that nations who are not pursuing righteousness did attain to righteousness, and righteousness that is of faith,
Rom 9:31 and Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, at a law of righteousness did not arrive;
Rom 9:32 wherefore? because--not by faith, but as by works of law; for they did stumble at the stone of stumbling,
It is much like the parable in Matt. 21:33-44.
 
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Citizen of the Kingdom

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So Jezreel refers to Gentiles?
It's the land itself, which was recorded as belonging to Jonathan, Naboth, the wall where Jezabel was eaten, king Joram was healed of Syrian wounds and King Jehoram went down to see Joram the son of Ahab in Jezreel, because he was sick.

Hosea 1:4
And the LORD said unto him, Call his name Jezreel; for yet a little while, and I will avenge the blood of Jezreel upon the house of Jehu, and will cause to cease the kingdom of the house of Israel.
Hosea 1:5
And it shall come to pass on that day, that I will break the bow of Israel in the valley of Jezreel.
Hosea 1:11
Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.
Hosea 2:22
And the earth shall answer with grain, and wine, and oil; and they shall answer Jezreel.​

The one Head is Christ.
 
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Presbyterian Continuist

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Why would the author of Romans mention this verse in Hosea in regard to the Gentiles?
He's just quoting Scripture the same way we would to emphasise a point.
 
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BABerean2

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Israel is called the chosen people of Almighty God - this would include also those whose reject Jesus as they are among the chosen people of God - and the scripture say outright that the people in reference to " I will call them my people, which were not my people;" the Gentile people were not among the 'chosen people of God' and thus included in the "not my people "

Man said...

"this would include also those whose reject Jesus as they are among the chosen people of God -"


God said...

1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

.
 
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Devin P

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Referring to the Gentiles which would be grafted into and be considered spiritual Israel
Not even just "spiritual" Israel, but actual Israel. We are grafted in alongside our big brother Judah.
 
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Devin P

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But the reference in Hosea isn't about the Gentiles but refers specifically to "the house of Israel" (the northern kingdom).
That is referring to gentiles though. Gentiles were prophesied to become part of Israel way back in Genesis.

When God scattered Israel amongst the gentiles, they were to assimilate throughout their generations, to the point that they would be indistinguishable, and then they'd forget who they were. No one was to know who they were, not even them. It wasn't until after they realized who Jesus was (even in the end of times) that they would realize "Hey, we are part of Israel, we have to come out of Babylon, we have to be apart from the world. Our identity has been lost, and our truth stolen.". As God prophesied, we'd realize that "we've inherited the lies and traditions of our fathers."
 
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seventysevens

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Man said...

"this would include also those whose reject Jesus as they are among the chosen people of God -"


God said...

1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

.
Man said there are Jews who are among the chosen people of God who deny Jesus is the Christ -

God said this Man is in agreement with what God said -1Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? :)
 
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dreadnought

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Romans 9:25
As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
It means the Lord will become the Father of us all, not just the Jews.
 
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dougangel

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Not even just "spiritual" Israel, but actual Israel. We are grafted in alongside our big brother Judah.

John 4

19 “Sir,” the woman said, “I can see that you are a prophet. 20 Our ancestors worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem.”

21 “Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

25 The woman said, “I know that Messiah” (called Christ) “is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us.”

26 Then Jesus declared, “I, the one speaking to you—I am he.”
 
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Devin P

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John 4

19 “Sir,” the woman said, “I can see that you are a prophet. 20 Our ancestors worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem.”

21 “Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

25 The woman said, “I know that Messiah” (called Christ) “is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us.”

26 Then Jesus declared, “I, the one speaking to you—I am he.”
Truth - Psalm 119:142 - Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law (Torah - H8451) is the truth.

Spirit - Romans 7:14 - For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

God's Torah is truth, and God's Torah is spiritual. That is how we are to worship Him.

Why did Jesus say the scribes and pharisees professed with their lips, but their hearts were far from Him? Because, they traded their own man-made doctrines and traditions, for the Torah. They preached the Torah, but put far more importance on their nonsensical traditions, as opposed to the truth.

I digress though, my point is made in Ezekiel:
Ezekiel 37:15-19
15The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying, 16Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions: 17And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand. 18And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these? 19Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.

Here God says that He will combine the stick of Judah, with the stick of Ephraim, and they will be one in His hand. Why is this so important? What does Ephraim have to do with anything? Well, if we go back to the blessing Jacob gave to Ephraim in Genesis 48:

19 And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he (Manasseh) also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother (Ephraim) shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a "multitude of nations" (fullness of the gentiles - "melo H4393 hagoyim" H1471)

Here we see that Jacob prophesied that Ephraim was to become multitude of nations, or as it's written in the original hebrew "melo hagoyim" which means, fulness of the gentiles.

This is where Paul gets the phrase, fulness of the gentiles in Romans 11. We are joined together with Judah, into Israel. Literally, not just spiritually. They are natural born, we are grafted in, but all belong on the same tree nonetheless now, as our roots are all in what Jesus has done for us.




 
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TribulationSigns

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Not all amil people believe in replacement theology. I know several who don't.

I do not teach replacement theology.

Replacement Theology is not a phrase that is in the Bible. It is a phrase conjured up by those opposed to the truth of God's very own words concerning the Church and Israel, and it's meant to obfuscate the "real" issue.

Hebrews 8:9-10
  • "Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
  • For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:"
The New Covenant with Israel is not with a physical Nation, but with a spiritual people whom God has put His laws into their mind and written them in their hearts. It never was a everlasting Covenant with a Nation (nor could it be), and so the idea of replacement of a nation is null and void. The nation only outwardly "represented" God's people, and clearly, according to Gpod's word, that was suybject to conditions. We've already given you countless scriptures illustrating that. Far from being blessed people, God has pronounced judgment upon the Nation of Israel.

Matthew 21:42-43
  • "Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
  • Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof."
Clearly, those are the Lord's words, not someone's private interpretation. The Kingdom representation has been taken from the nation of Israel. Therefore, how can your theology teach that the Nation of Israel is still God's chosen people? Clearly, God has chosen to remove the kingdom or reign from them, and give it to another that will bring forth fruit. What you falsely label Replacement Theology is Christ's Theology. No fruit will come from "the nation" Israel ever again. The "restoration of Israel," which is the real Biblical phrase, is accomplished in the rebuilding in Christ. Not in the heresy of physical governments/kingdoms or Temples or Blood Sacrifices. But in Christ, "The Israel of God!"
 
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keras

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Replacement Theology is not a phrase that is in the Bible. It is a phrase conjured up by those opposed to the truth of God's very own words concerning the Church and Israel, and it's meant to obfuscate the "real" issue.
This is correct. Maybe not exactly as you reckon!

The opposition to the fact of there being only One people of God, comes from the 'pre-trib rapture to heaven' camp. They have to have an 'Israel' on earth, going thru God's wrath, so they can go to heaven and avoid that wrath.
This false idea would be laughed out of the Church, if only so many respected authors and teachers hadn't caught on to what a money maker it is. The sheeple think its great; we can relax and just wait for the 'beam me up' moment.
Their shock and horror when it doesn't happen, will cause the lukewarm Christians to renounce God, so even though the 'rapture theory' is a Satanic doctrine, God has allowed it, in order to 'winnow' His people. The 'tares' who are now mingled with the good grain, will be burned up and the 'wheat' will be gathered into the holy Land. Ezekiel 34:11-12..... I will gather My sheep from where they are scattered on the dark Day of My wrath.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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He's just quoting Scripture the same way we would to emphasise a point.

It seems like his point is that the "Gentiles" (def: people, tribes, nation) he is referring to are really the scattered of the northern kingdom.
 
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