Incarcertation or Mercy, the Choice Might Not Be Simple

I heard this amazing story on the Ted Radio hour about a Prosecutor that chose to work with a first offender. He had stolen a bunch of computers from a Best Buys and ended up returning most and did a bunch of committee service. One day this guy is at some public gathering and this guy Christopher he had worked with came up and gave him a hug. By then he had finished a 4 year degree and was the manager of a large bank. We have over 2 million people incarcerated in this country, which is 1/4 of the prisoners in the world.

I remember Bill Clinton on the campaign trail talking about how education and interdiction was better then incarceration. Then in office he signed the Crime Bill to deal with the crack epidemic, three strikes and your a lifer in prison. Just a general question because it's kind of on my mind right now, what are your thoughts on how we lock so many people in cages and call that justice? Don't get me wrong, if you can't do the time don't do the crime but there comes a time, we should consider other options.

I hope you'll take the 14 minutes it takes to listen to this, and hopefully, come back and let us know what you think.

Grace and peace,
Mark

Yea, the best way to give a criminal a college level education on crime is to lock him up with criminals. I also keep seeing this:

This statistic seems dangerously consistent:

curiousgirl98 said:

I think it is no secret that the United States has one of the worst incarceration systems in the world. I believe for people who are addicts and drug dealers there should be a rehabilitation center to aid those who have drug addiction so once they overcome that problem then they can continue out into the world with no problem. In the states, once you've been locked up it is almost impossible to find a job and start over and create a new life without remembering the cruel prison life. The system is broken and needs to be fixed, but the first place to start would perhaps be to stop locking up people over petty charges and helping those who have been wrongfully incarcerated. I recommend the documentary called 13th on Netflix, its really interesting and discusses mass incarceration in the states.

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Ok, that was a little shocking, thought there was a lot to consider.

#curiousgirl98,

I watched 13th last night, it was a long movie, it was late so I just went to bed afterwards. The racial elements were disturbing to say the least, I've been coming at this from another perspective. The Nixon war on crime should should sound familiar because we have had a war on drugs and a war on terrorism since. In 1794 James Madison makes that chilling statement about something going on, 'behind the curtain':


That should be read in context, it can be pretty enlightening. More recently we hear Trump getting very dramatic about some crime wave due to illegal immigration here in the States and refuges in Europe. The ill effects are exaggerated and there is a history of this worth considering. In the wake of the Watts riots the police started becoming more militarized. The history of this kind of reaction didn't start there, with bank robbery on the rise during the Great Depression the police started acquiring armored up vehicles, twice they were used to break up bank robberies and some 19 times they were used to break up strikes.

The Constitution has a Bill of Rights for a reason, the citizens of the newly formed United States wanted that to prevent government abuses. There was an element of the war on drugs not always appreciated, the seizure laws. Those seized assets were in no small way an enormous amount of money that flowed into law enforcement. Don't get me wrong, I realize that the crack epidemic was devastating and stopping it was a major problem. Later it would be crystal meth and more recently it's been opioids. My nephew is now in a mental institution due to brain damage from opioids, I have an older one who is serving hard time for crystal meth. So this history isn't just academic for me, it's personal.

About the documentary, while I realize there is a racial element here, it runs concurrent with other motives and agendas. That old trick of government, the game behind the curtain is more then racially motivated incarceration. It comes down to money and when the government tells you it's to war with something, invariably it's going to cost a lot of money. I looked into the Crusades, the Inquisition and the witch hunts in Salem and they all had one thing in common, seizure of the assets of the accused. Invariably due process is relaxed and the punishments grow increasingly severe.

What I'm wondering is if the subject of education and intervention should be revisited. Mental health issues should be addressed, there is no sense in our prisons being the biggest providers of mental health care in this country. Finally, 2 million people in the prison systems is an absurdity, that's pretty close to the number of people we have in the active duty military. Just seems to me there has to be a better way.

Grace and peace,
Mark

SwordmanJr said:

I think the theocratic system worked far better. Restitution as opposed to in incarceration. In our current system, the government gobbles up all the money and property taken from perpetrators rather than seeing to the needs of the victims. Let the evil-doers make restitution to the victim(s) by returning four-fold what they had taken and/or damaged. I'm sure there are any number of hypotheticals someone could inject to try and presume that restitution has weaknesses in our present cultural and social construct. Well, I never said restitution is a perfect system in any world where sin abounds. That's why it is written that Jesus will rule with a rod of iron. That will be a time of enforced morality, and yet there will still be unbelievers and sinners until the heavens and the earth are burned away into oblivion. Restitution is superior, not perfect.

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According to the Bureau of Prisons, these are 79,119 prisoners (46.2%) in prison for drug offense, there are 29,882 (17.4%), in there for weapons, explosives and arson. Burglary, Larceny, Property Offenses 8,105 (4.7%). From what I know of thieves, they are likely to have dozens of offenses by the time the police catch up with them. In some cases restitution can make a good solution for a first offender to get back on track with his life. Even if that could put a dent in it, drugs account for almost half of those incarcerated. While I've often thought the Biblical formula makes a much sounder remedy then incarceration that judgment very often resulted into forced servanthood. In Exodus when Pharaoh says let us deal shrewdly with them, he is talking about debt and that is the most likely way they became slaves. If we are going to follow the biblical model are we going to just let everyone go every fifty years?

I think we should take a better look at drug offenses, that seems to be the biggest problem. In 13th, a documentary I watched last night, they describe the Willie Horton incident that effectively lost Mike Dukakis the election. Clinton went from talking about education and interdiction on the campaign trail to three strikes and your out in office. If the prison system is ever going to be reformed it will have to go through politicians who can't get into office if they are soft on crime.

Doug Melven said:

Drugs inside the prison are another huge problem.
Whenever a prisoner has any sort of mental issue, they prescribe drugs.
Here in Michigan it is Seroquel, a depressant. It makes you really tired and laid back.
Just what inmates want, to sleep there whole sentence.
So the inmates will put it in there mouth but not swallow it and they will sell it to somebody else, (Gross right?).

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Maybe not in maximum security but in minimum security it's actually easier to get drugs then you think. Then there's things like prescribed drugs that let the prisoner forget where he is, I can see the appeal.

You know, with the Parkland school massacre it came out the Cruz had issues that people were aware of before it happened. I can't help but wonder what might have been different if he had gotten some help. It doesn't relieve him of responsibility but you have to wonder, what if he had gotten some help before he became a mass murderer. I suppose we will never know, but this I'm sure of, we need to start taking mental illness seriously as a public safety issue.

hedrick said:

Before the Trump election, people in both parties were starting to agree that we needed to reduce the use of prison -- even some of the people who had voted for policies that created it. Sessions seems one of the few who disagree. Like many other issues, we'll need to wait until Trump is out to have a real discussion of this.

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I think this is a perfect time to be talking about this, Trump has called for the death penalty for drug dealers. Like I pointed out earlier, According to the Bureau of Prisons, these are 79,119 prisoners (46.2%) in prison for drug offenses. I don't know how many of them are in there for trafficking but that looks a lot like a lot of executions.

Drug Sentencing Disparities

• In the 2015 National Survey on Drug Use and Health, about 17 million whites and 4 million African Americans reported having used an illicit drug within the last month.
• African Americans and whites use drugs at similar rates, but the imprisonment rate of African Americans for drug charges is almost 6 times that of whites.
• African Americans represent 12.5% of illicit drug users, but 29% of those arrested for drug offenses and 33% of those incarcerated in state facilities for drug offenses. (Criminal Justice Fact Sheet. NAACP)

I can't help but wonder if Trump's strategy might be a strain on race relations.