Soul sleep or heaven which is the truth?

FutureAndAHope said:

Soul sleep was not supported by Jesus. Jesus speaks the truth in his parables not fiction. In the story of Lazarus and the rich man, the rich man died in sin, he was instantly in hell fire in torment. It goes on to say that Lazarus also died and was whisked off to heaven. The rich man communicated in a human way when dead. Stating something along the lines of "get some one to give me just a drop of water for I am tormented in this flame".

Don't be missled by Christians who don't know their bible. Soul sleep is not biblical.

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The story of the rich man and Lazarus is an anthropomorphism. The rich man could not have literally asked for a drop of water for his tongue if he did not have an actual body. The Old Testament regularly described Sheol as a murky, void-like place (but not totally unconscious)

TuxAme said:

Both are "correct". The soul is judged upon death, and it goes to heaven, hell, or purgatory.

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That is popular myth

TuxAme said:

The soul has left the body, so the body is left behind and decays. Our souls will be reunited with our bodies at the general judgement ("the second coming"), and our bodies will be glorified.

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I am pretty much ok with that.

TuxAme said:

The soul does not sleep- it is simply separated from the body for a time.

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The truth is your body sleeps every night and as you point out -- at death the body does not sleep but decays back to dust.

And instantly at death -- the spirit "goes to heaven" as Solomon said - "goes back to God who gave it" Eccl 12:7 at death. in a dormant state.

And at death they are "dormant" as Paul said in 1 Thess 4
13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

It's all right there -- plain as day.

Rubiks said:

The story of the rich man and Lazarus is an anthropomorphism. The rich man could not have literally asked for a drop of water for his tongue if he did not have an actual body.

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True - it comes in a long list of parables -- and is itself a parable.

BobRyan said:

That is popular myth


I am pretty much ok with that.



The truth is your body sleeps every night and as you point out -- at death the body does not sleep but decays back to dust.

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A condecending Adventist, how original...

FutureAndAHope said:

Soul sleep was not supported by Jesus. Jesus speaks the truth in his parables not fiction. In the story of Lazarus and the rich man, the rich man died in sin, he was instantly in hell fire in torment. It goes on to say that Lazarus also died and was whisked off to heaven. The rich man communicated in a human way when dead. Stating something along the lines of "get some one to give me just a drop of water for I am tormented in this flame".

Don't be missled by Christians who don't know their bible. Soul sleep is not biblical.

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That parable comes complete with Abraham as sovereign of all heaven, prayers to the dead, Abraham's lap being the home of all saints in heaven... Abraham prayed too to get his sovereign decision on who may be resurrected and who may not.

Parables are not a bunch of "historic facts" they are lessons via story. In Luke 16 the "lesson" is --- "IF they do not listen to Moses and the prophets - they will not listen though one rises from the dead"

And instantly at death -- the spirit "goes to heaven" as Solomon said - "goes back to God who gave it" Eccl 12:7 at death. in a dormant state.

And at death they are "dormant" as Paul said in 1 Thess 4
13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

It's all right there -- plain as day.

(Bible details matter)

Stabat Mater said:

A condecending Adventist, how original...

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mmbattlestar said:

That are irrefutable proofs in the bible like the thief on the cross and Jesus's famous statement in John 11 of that believers will never die that cannot be ignored. The bible also teaches soul sleep t .

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John 11 "our friend Lazarus sleeps - I go that I may wake him"

Thief on the cross - 'When you come in our kingdom" is the context for being with Christ.

42 Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.”

43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you today you will be with me in paradise.”

Original Happy Camper said:

Please explain these to verses then

Ecclesiastes 9:5
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Psalm 115:17
The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence.

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This is one view:
Those who die in their sins are the "dead" spoken of here. Remember, in that time they did not have access to the salvation and forgiveness of Jesus like we do. Jesus said his children, though they physically die, will never die.

So those who died having salvation are NOT part of the "dead" that David and Solomon speak of.
Two different groups. Having said that, in the vastness of time and the billions of souls that lived, it appears that the vast majority ARE in fact in that state right now and shall be until the resurrection.
This is just one explanation to consider.

If you pop off to heaven when you die

Why was Moses resurrected if he was already in Heaven?

Happy SABBATH of the LORD JESUS CHRIST to you all.

mmbattlestar said:

My wife and I were watching some videos on Youtube last night about where Christians go when they die. And we came across a video that teaches soul sleep I.e. when we die we don't go to be with Jesus but we sleep in our graves and in an instant it will be the second coming of Jesus and we will be resurrected. I've heard this teaching before from a seventh day Adventist but NEVER from other Christians. The internet seems to be a buzz with both theories so I was wondering what is the general stance of the church? Its always been in my opinion that dead people ultimately end up in either heaven or hell. If you believe in Jesus and died in him and are born again you go to heaven if you deny Jesus you go to hell. Honestly I never knew that soul sleep was even a belief among Christians other than Seventh day adventists. But apparently belief in soul sleep is very common among Christians. So common in fact that I'm starting to open up to the idea of it. It does seem to be supported by the bible and the other view doesn't seem to have any biblical evidence at all. Unless I'm missing something? I mean towards the end of Paul's life he apparently was looking forward to death because he longed to be with Jesus. Peter also seemed to believe that after his crucifixion that he would go to be with Jesus as well. But there is also several places in the bible that say when were dead we sleep in the grave awaiting the second coming of Jesus. So Idk... Plus there was the thief on the cross. Jesus said to him "Today you will be with me in paradise" not "during my second coming you will be with me in paradise" so that seems to confirm that life does in fact continue after death.

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Souls don't sleep. They are always consious.

Soul sleep or heaven which is the truth?
Every obit you read or funeral you attend they all say the same thing, "They are now in Heaven in the arms of Jesus". Or something to that effect. But the Bible does teach that all will sleep until Jesus returns to take His church to Heaven with Him. As far as we know only two people went to heaven directly, without dying, two O.T.prophets, Elijah and Enoch. The rest are laying in a grave somewhere waiting for Jesus. Although, when Jesus, Peter and John went up to the Mountain, Moses was one of the spirits that they saw up there? So upon death maybe God takes His spirit back to heaven ? but our bodies lay in waiting for Jesus. And in reality, the Bible makes death sound like sleeping, and when you sleep before you know it, it is morning and time to get up. So I am thinking that anyone who dies as a Christian, will see Jesus like in the blink of an eye, it will be as though they had just died, know matter how long ago it was.
ronandcarol

Your confusion reveals the huge problem with denominational religion, where the teaching of each unauthorized manmade denomination contradicts the teaching of the others. This doesn't just apply to the one question you raised. Virtually any belief you can name, from any denomination, is contradicted by the beliefs of other denominations. Truth cannot contradict truth, therefore it is obvious that a great number of false beliefs are being taught by such churches. Which contradicts the clearly stated will of Jesus Christ, which was and still is, "Father, that they all may be ONE, even as you and I are ONE". Can you imagine Jesus and God the Father having conflicting beliefs? Which is why Jesus founded ONE Church, said it was to remain ONE, and promised that ONE Church, and no other, "The Holy Spirit will guide you into ALL truth", and "WHATSOEVER you bind upon Earth is bound in Heaven", and "He who hears you hears Me". Which is why that ONE Church remains ONE in belief, ONE in teaching, ONE in biblical understanding, ONE in authority after 2,000 years, while those who have defected from His Church have fragmented into more than 6,000 conflicting denominations in 500 years; and that doesn't even include the 20,000 so-called "noon-denominatioinal" churches, which are simply mini-denominations.

mmbattlestar said:

Soul sleep or heaven which is the truth?

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The scriptures are very clear that to be absent from the body (dead) is to be present with the Lord (in Heaven - since His finished work which allows us to enter that place).

It is clear that Paul's reference to "sleep" refers to our slumbering body which awaits glorification and not to our "soul".

When we sleep in this life we do not enter a state where our brain (analogous to the soul in this case) goes flat line and has not activity. That simply isn't what sleep is.

Sleep pertains to our resting bodies only - while our mind is very active. We dream while we sleep and often (particularly in these end times) receive information from God Himself.

The reason that hard line Adventists insist that all aspects of our nature go "flat line" or cease to function at all when we die - is because for us to go into the presence of the Lord requires that we are saved (justified) even now and do not await some time in the far off future to attain that salvation.

They do not believe, as the scriptures clearly show us, that we are justified and seated with Christ even now - reigning in the Kingdom of God according to our faith.

They believe that salvation will be meted out at a final investigative judgment when our lives (works) will be examined to see if we are worthy of salvation.

In hard line Adventism - worshiping on Sunday (as most of us do) is taking the "mark of the beast". Thus those so doing that sin (and other sins perhaps) will disqualify us from the salvation available to us.

This - of course - is not evangelical Christianity and is not the gospel of of grace which most of us believe in.

To the extend that an Adventist believes and teaches this hard line "soul sleep" doctrine - that person has fallen from grace in that he is teaching another gospel (a gospel of works) - which is no gospel at all.

Contrary to this false doctrine - the scriptures testify that we are saved by grace through faith and those believing in this life on Christ as their hope of salvation will pass from death to life and will never again come into condemnation.

I haven't read all the thread, and I'm sure that following scripture has already been brought up, but for those that still don't think we remain where that scripture says we remain, in a sleep state, what is your logical argument against something so clear?

Thessalonians 14:16

16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

I don't believe any scripture says: "To be absent with the body is to be present with the lord"

I dont usually drop parts of scripture to support my case or belief, but rather I try to read the bible as one large story and revelation. The soterial narrative.
Well in this case Ill make an exception however.

To the protestant above me, how do you reconcile your idea of soul sleep with the scripture below?


2 corinthians 5
1 For we know, if our earthly house of this habitation be dissolved, that we have a building of God, a house not made with hands, eternal in heaven.


2 For in this also we groan, desiring to be clothed upon with our habitation that is from heaven.

3 Yet so that we be found clothed, not naked.

4 For we also, who are in this tabernacle, do groan, being burthened; because we would not be unclothed, but clothed upon, that that which is mortal may be swallowed up by life.

5 Now he that maketh us for this very thing, is God, who hath given us the pledge of the Spirit.

6 Therefore having always confidence, knowing that, while we are in the body, we are absent from the Lord.

7 (For we walk by faith, and not by sight.)

8 But we are confident, and have a good will to be absent rather from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Furthermore if youre going to enter a thread with arrogance id recommend you to read through said thread first.
There has been arguments put forward in this very thread that should help you reconsider your position or at least shed some light on the nuances in this field of theology.

Kenny'sID said:

I don't believe any scripture says: "To be absent with the body is to be present with the lord"

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2 corinthians 5:8

yeshuaslavejeff said:

That's not stated anywhere in Scripture.
In fact, no dis-embodied souls are found anywhere in Scripture, nor in history, nor in heaven, nor under the earth.

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Remember when King Saul spoke to Samuel after he had died? Firstly: do you accept that Saul was actually speaking to Samuel? And second: do you believe that, if Saul had dug up Samuel's grave just after that conversation, that his body would be missing?