Soul sleep or heaven which is the truth?

I’m very anxious to hear more about this topic also. I have also heard about both sides and seen evidence supporting both sides but have been reluctant to accept either as being truth. In my opinion on the things that are not clear and not relevant for salvation it is best not to make any assumptions and stay neutral and patiently wait until the time comes to find out for sure.

This concerns the 4 last things. Death, judgement, heaven and hell. Soul sleep is a lutheran heresy brought along to undermine the teaching of purgatory. The reason and need to pray for the dead ceased to exist in the newly invented lutheran system of theology.

This is the reason he removed the books of maccabees from the bible too. It didnt fit his agenda.

On a more personal interpretation I believe time is elusive, meaning that once we die it works differently.
I suspect that in a way we all die at the same time or something like that. If eternity isnt bound by time it will be so totally and breathtaking different from this life that the two of them are inconsumentable.

Saints are in heaven praying for us on earth though. This fact seem to undermine my mystical thought about all dying at the same time. Well i dont know.

I believe those who are granted salvation will go straight to God after judgement. Saint Paul says something about this in 2 kor.

mmbattlestar said:

My wife and I were watching some videos on Youtube last night about where Christians go when they die. And we came across a video that teaches soul sleep I.e. when we die we don't go to be with Jesus but we sleep in our graves and in an instant it will be the second coming of Jesus and we will be resurrected. I've heard this teaching before from a seventh day Adventist but NEVER from other Christians. The internet seems to be a buzz with both theories so I was wondering what is the general stance of the church? Its always been in my opinion that dead people ultimately end up in either heaven or hell. If you believe in Jesus and died in him and are born again you go to heaven if you deny Jesus you go to hell. Honestly I never knew that soul sleep was even a belief among Christians other than Seventh day adventists. But apparently belief in soul sleep is very common among Christians. So common in fact that I'm starting to open up to the idea of it. It does seem to be supported by the bible and the other view doesn't seem to have any biblical evidence at all. Unless I'm missing something? I mean towards the end of Paul's life he apparently was looking forward to death because he longed to be with Jesus. Peter also seemed to believe that after his crucifixion that he would go to be with Jesus as well. But there is also several places in the bible that say when were dead we sleep in the grave awaiting the second coming of Jesus. So Idk... Plus there was the thief on the cross. Jesus said to him "Today you will be with me in paradise" not "during my second coming you will be with me in paradise" so that seems to confirm that life does in fact continue after death.

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Lazarus' sisters sent for Jesus as their brother was sick. Along the way Jesus told them that Lazarus had died.

World English Bible - Public Domain

John 11:11 He said these things, and after that, he said to them, "Our friend, Lazarus, has fallen asleep, but I am going so that I may awake him out of sleep." 12 The disciples therefore said, "Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will recover." 13 Now Jesus had spoken of his death, but they thought that he spoke of taking rest in sleep. 14 So Jesus said to them plainly then, "Lazarus is dead. 15 I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, so that you may believe.

John 11:17 So when Jesus came, he found that he had been in the tomb four days already. 18 Now Bethany was near Jerusalem, about fifteen stadia away. 19 Many of the Jews had joined the women around Martha and Mary, to console them concerning their brother. 20 Then when Martha heard that Jesus was coming, she went and met him, but Mary stayed in the house. 21 Therefore Martha said to Jesus, "Lord, if you would have been here, my brother wouldn't have died. 22 Even now I know that, whatever you ask of God, God will give you." 23 Jesus said to her, "Your brother will rise again." 24 Martha said to him, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day." 25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will still live, even if he dies. 26 Whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?" 27 She said to him, "Yes, Lord. I have come to believe that you are the Christ, God's Son, he who comes into the world."

Martha believed there was going to be a resurrection and a last day. Peter also believed this as is evident from his letters. John believed as he passed these teachings on to us.

If God had already made a new heaven and earth, surely he would have taken his own to live there. People expect a new heaven and earth with Jesus' second coming and the day of judgement. In that day the righteous dead will go to heaven.

The Catholic Church was scamming people by telling them they could buy their loved ones out of purgatory by purchasing indulgences from the Church. The Catholic Church repented of this practice long ago.

My only thought on this is, "Does it truly matter?" Jesus was resurrected on the third day. Does it really matter to each of us where he was and what he was doing during the 3 days? Scripture tells us he walked among the people as a man after his resurrection. Then at some point he ascended. He said he was coming back for us. Does it really matter what time or what day he comes back to get us? To me the only real thing that matters is that I have the faith to believe he is who he said he was and that he did rise from being dead just as he said he would and that he will come back for me. To struggle with all of the what-if's and why's and how-comes does not seems to benefit my faith or my walk with him while on this earth. I believe and that is all need to get through today. I'm pretty sure any questions will be moot points upon my last breath on earth. God Bless all!

dqhall said:

If God had already made a new heaven and earth, surely he would have taken his own to live there. People expect a new heaven and earth with Jesus' second coming and the day of judgement. In that day the righteous dead will go to heaven.

The Catholic Church was scamming people by telling them they could buy their loved ones out of purgatory by purchasing indulgences from the Church. The Catholic Church repented of this practice long ago.

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I don't believe anyone repented of that [kind of] practice (and misplaced belief) long ago nor recently, except the few, the remnant, the elect chosen by YHVH.

Joyful Seeker said:

My only thought on this is, "Does it truly matter?"

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Only as YHVH Reveals it matters, if and when He does. Usually it is not one idea or belief, but it is lack of belief , lack of trust in Jesus and lack of relying on YHVH.

dqhall said:

Lazarus' sisters sent for Jesus as their brother was sick. Along the way Jesus told them that Lazarus had died.

World English Bible - Public Domain

John 11:11 He said these things, and after that, he said to them, "Our friend, Lazarus, has fallen asleep, but I am going so that I may awake him out of sleep." 12 The disciples therefore said, "Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will recover." 13 Now Jesus had spoken of his death, but they thought that he spoke of taking rest in sleep. 14 So Jesus said to them plainly then, "Lazarus is dead. 15 I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, so that you may believe.

John 11:17 So when Jesus came, he found that he had been in the tomb four days already. 18 Now Bethany was near Jerusalem, about fifteen stadia away. 19 Many of the Jews had joined the women around Martha and Mary, to console them concerning their brother. 20 Then when Martha heard that Jesus was coming, she went and met him, but Mary stayed in the house. 21 Therefore Martha said to Jesus, "Lord, if you would have been here, my brother wouldn't have died. 22 Even now I know that, whatever you ask of God, God will give you." 23 Jesus said to her, "Your brother will rise again." 24 Martha said to him, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day." 25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will still live, even if he dies. 26 Whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?" 27 She said to him, "Yes, Lord. I have come to believe that you are the Christ, God's Son, he who comes into the world."

Martha believed there was going to be a resurrection and a last day. Peter also believed this as is evident from his letters. John believed as he passed these teachings on to us.

If God had already made a new heaven and earth, surely he would have taken his own to live there. People expect a new heaven and earth with Jesus' second coming and the day of judgement. In that day the righteous dead will go to heaven.

The Catholic Church was scamming people by telling them they could buy their loved ones out of purgatory by purchasing indulgences from the Church. The Catholic Church repented of this practice long ago.

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Have you ever thought about the difference in time when Christ resurrected Lasarus (before the calvary and his victory) and when he promised the bandit next to him at the cross (Jesus died before the bandit) paradise ?

By his death he opened heaven to us. Jesus died before the bandit and he knew he would which is why he promised what he did.
This hadnt happened yet when Lasarus died.

All sleeping souls were judged as Christ went into the kingdom of death before he rose again.

Also what you say about the reasons for purgatory come of as very unlightened. The teaching of purgatory was established for a long time before Tetzel and the crocks started making big money off of it anyway. Worth mentioning is the geographic limitations of this problem. It was mostly a german problem.

Soul sleep is not Biblical.
2 Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
Philippians 1:21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.
Matthew 22:31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
Matthew 22:32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God ofJacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
Hebrews 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses,

In the last 2 Scriptures it looks to me like there are people alive in Heaven.
They are still waiting for glorified bodies, but they are still there.

BNR32FAN said:

I’m very anxious to hear more about this topic also.

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"winner" for the post overall, but not for being anxious.

"A lot of people are forever learning/ studying, and NEVER coming to knowledge of the truth".

Finding out the truth has requirements most people never meet. (see in Scripture the requirements, even just to be Jesus' disciple) .... most people never get to nor past step one.

Doug Melven said:

it looks to me like

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This is one key often overlooked. "looks ... like".....

BNR32FAN said:

I’m very anxious to hear more about this topic also. I have also heard about both sides and seen evidence supporting both sides but have been reluctant to accept either as being truth. In my opinion on the things that are not clear and not relevant for salvation it is best not to make any assumptions and stay neutral and patiently wait until the time comes to find out for sure.

Click to expand...

I am of the reasoning that it really doesn’t matter.

I don’t think it should be overly valid in Christian conversation either.

Joyful Seeker said:

My only thought on this is, "Does it truly matter?" Jesus was resurrected on the third day. Does it really matter to each of us where he was and what he was doing during the 3 days? Scripture tells us he walked among the people as a man after his resurrection. Then at some point he ascended. He said he was coming back for us. Does it really matter what time or what day he comes back to get us? To me the only real thing that matters is that I have the faith to believe he is who he said he was and that he did rise from being dead just as he said he would and that he will come back for me. To struggle with all of the what-if's and why's and how-comes does not seems to benefit my faith or my walk with him while on this earth. I believe and that is all need to get through today. I'm pretty sure any questions will be moot points upon my last breath on earth. God Bless all!

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Thats a great view and insight. Thank you
I guess we're a bit damaged being westerners and all with our heritage, I refer to scholasticism and all

ToBeLoved said:

I am of the reasoning that it really doesn’t matter.

I don’t think it should be overly valid in Christian conversation either.

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I agree I just like to examine other people’s perspectives to test my own beliefs. Always looking to learn something new.

Stabat Mater said:

This concerns the 4 last things. Death, judgement, heaven and hell. Soul sleep is a lutheran heresy brought along to undermine the teaching of purgatory. The reason and need to pray for the dead ceased to exist in the newly invented lutheran system of theology.

This is the reason he removed the books of maccabees from the bible too. It didnt fit his agenda.

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We (Lutherans) do not teach soul sleep.

Lutherans focus on the hope of heaven the same as Catholics do.

The Lutheran confessions actually do permit us to pray for the dead, even if we do not have a teaching on purgatory. Our attitude is similar to Orthodox Christians. We do not pretend to say what the prayers do, just that if it is desired, it is not forbidden.

FireDragon76 said:

We (Lutherans) do not teach soul sleep.

Lutherans focus on the hope of heaven the same as Catholics do.

The Lutheran confessions actually do permit us to pray for the dead, even if we do not have a teaching on purgatory. Our attitude is similar to Orthodox Christians. We do not pretend to say what the prayers do, just that if it is desired, it is not forbidden.

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Then id like to apologize, mea culpa.
Im sorry, but church of Norway does so which claims to be Lutheran.

Again I hope you accept my apology. Spreading false information about other christians is the last thing Id like to be guilty of.

God bless.

There are some who teach that the souls that "sleep" are the ones who died in their sins. They actually die, that is cease to be conscious. That is until the resurrection. So though the timing of the resurrection might be 1,000 years away from the moment they physically died, from their perspective they died and immediately faced the great white throne judgemen, when in fact they have been cut off of life for all of that time.
This could be possible, because the wages of sin is DEATH (not torture) and they may be dead for thousands of years before the great judgement.

This gets really sketchy if you require bible verses to "prove". I know that for those who are in Christ, they are told they will never die, which I take to mean that they continue in their conscious being after physical death.
I don't see any reason for a believer to fear death.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

This is one key often overlooked. "looks ... like".....

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It looks to me like we will just have to wait for the afterlife to find out that I am right.

mmbattlestar said:

My wife and I were watching some videos on Youtube last night about where Christians go when they die. And we came across a video that teaches soul sleep I.e. when we die we don't go to be with Jesus but we sleep in our graves and in an instant it will be the second coming of Jesus and we will be resurrected. I've heard this teaching before from a seventh day Adventist but NEVER from other Christians. The internet seems to be a buzz with both theories so I was wondering what is the general stance of the church? Its always been in my opinion that dead people ultimately end up in either heaven or hell. If you believe in Jesus and died in him and are born again you go to heaven if you deny Jesus you go to hell. Honestly I never knew that soul sleep was even a belief among Christians other than Seventh day adventists. But apparently belief in soul sleep is very common among Christians. So common in fact that I'm starting to open up to the idea of it. It does seem to be supported by the bible and the other view doesn't seem to have any biblical evidence at all. Unless I'm missing something? I mean towards the end of Paul's life he apparently was looking forward to death because he longed to be with Jesus. Peter also seemed to believe that after his crucifixion that he would go to be with Jesus as well. But there is also several places in the bible that say when were dead we sleep in the grave awaiting the second coming of Jesus. So Idk... Plus there was the thief on the cross. Jesus said to him "Today you will be with me in paradise" not "during my second coming you will be with me in paradise" so that seems to confirm that life does in fact continue after death.

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Soul Sleep or pop off to Heaven or Hell when you die is a very important issue to understand.

Lets go back to the garden of Eden.

Jesus said if you eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil "you shall surely die" Satan came along and said "you shall not surely die"

The theology that you pop off to heaven or hell is in the statement of Satan, he is stating that your soul is immortal. "You shall surely not die" Thus when your body dies your soul goes to one or the other thus you do not die. Satan's lie still being taught in the "Christian Church's"

1 Timothy 6:15-16 King James Version (KJV)
15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

Soul Sleep is what Jesus taught in the story of Lazarus. If you read that story you will see that Lazarus was dead when Jesus said he was asleep. (Martha said he had been dead four days)

As for the thief on the Cross change the comma to read "I tell you today, you will be with me...." not "I tell you, today you will be with me..." Remember what Jesus said to "touch me not for I have not yet ascended to my father..." so Jesus did not go to Heaven when he died so the thief was not with him but asleep in the grave waiting the resurrection.

Ecclesiastes 9:5
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Psalm 115:17
The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence.

These two verses support what Jesus taught that the dead both righteous and the lost are asleep in the grave till the resurrection to life or the second resurrection unto damnation.