A Sola Fide Question

bbbbbbb · Mar 16, 2018

Phoebe Ann said:
Our change of mind or repentance comes from God.

New International Version
Opponents must be gently instructed, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth,

New Living Translation
Gently instruct those who oppose the truth. Perhaps God will change those people's hearts, and they will learn the truth.

English Standard Version
correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth,

Berean Study Bible
He must gently reprove those who oppose him, in the hope that God may grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth.

Berean Literal Bible
in gentleness disciplining those opposing, lest ever God may give them repentance unto a knowledge of the truth,

New American Standard Bible
with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth,

King James Bible
In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

Absolutely!

dreadnought · Mar 16, 2018

bbbbbbb said:
Interestingly, I have not found any verse in the Bible that uses the term "repent of your sin". Perhaps you can help me find it.

I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. Luke 5:32 RSV

bbbbbbb · Mar 16, 2018

dreadnought said:
I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. Luke 5:32 RSV

Thanks, but this does not state that sinners are called to repent from sin. Sinners are called to repent (change their mind) but it does not say what to change their mind about. The fact is that all of us are sinners and need to have a change of mind concerning the person and work of Jesus Christ. Hordes of people repent of their sin all of the time, but of those hordes few actually put their trust in Jesus Christ to save them from their sins. Repentance concerning sin falls far short of the mark.

Tree of Life · Mar 16, 2018

Unofficial Reverand Alex said:
What I'm asking about is why Jesus tells the woman in the end of Luke 7 that her love covers over a multitude of sins, if our sins are already forgiven by Jesus. Why Paul tells us to confess our sins to each other, so we'll be forgiven. I'm absolutely not denying the fact that Jesus forgives us, I'm just questioning the purpose of various verses telling us things that blot out our sins if that's not how sins are forgiven. I guess I'm just looking for a deeper understanding of these verses about forgiveness.

It would be helpful to take them one at a time.

In Luke 7, Jesus tells the woman "Your faith has saved you; go in peace." He likewise says that "her sins, which are many, are forgiven—for she loved much. But he who is forgiven little, loves little."

Does Jesus mean that her great acts of love have merited her forgiveness? In other words, that by loving Jesus much she has attained much forgiveness? I don't think so. He says that she has been saved by her faith in him. And in his illustration his point is that the one who has been forgiven more will love more. So I believe the idea is that the forgiveness comes first. This woman realizes that she has been forgiven much as a free gift (received by faith). Therefore she loves much. If someone is forgiven by faith, they will naturally love God out of thankfulness and awe.

I'm not sure what you're referring to in Paul, but you may be thinking of James 5:16 - "Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed." Indeed we should confess our sins to each other and pray for each other. This is one important way that we are healed from the damage that sin does in our lives. And it's one way we come to experience the forgiveness that we have in Christ. The fact that justification is by faith alone does not negate the need that we have to be existentially healed of our sinful condition.

Do please comment more, I appreciate how deeply you understand these doctrines.

Maybe we can start with a specific objection or point which you would like me to demonstrate from Scripture. Where should I start?

dreadnought · Mar 16, 2018

bbbbbbb said:
Thanks, but this does not state that sinners are called to repent from sin. Sinners are called to repent (change their mind) but it does not say what to change their mind about. The fact is that all of us are sinners and need to have a change of mind concerning the person and work of Jesus Christ. Hordes of people repent of their sin all of the time, but of those hordes few actually put their trust in Jesus Christ to save them from their sins. Repentance concerning sin falls far short of the mark.

The Bible tells us over and over again to repent. I think the Bible writers assumed you were clever enough to figure out you are supposed to repent of your bad behavior, not your good behavior.

bbbbbbb · Mar 16, 2018

dreadnought said:
The Bible tells us over and over again to repent. I think the Bible writers assumed you were clever enough to figure out you are supposed to repent of your bad behavior, not your good behavior.

You assume, wrongly, that repent means to clean up your act and become a nicer person. It does not mean that. As I stated previously, the word which is translated from the Greek as repent in English actually is μετανοώ, which literally means to change one's mind. Yes, the Bible repeatedly insists that people need to change their minds.

In fact, as I pointed out yesterday, the Bible states in several places that God repented. Did God forsake His sin when He repented?

dreadnought · Mar 16, 2018

bbbbbbb said:
You assume, wrongly, that repent means to clean up your act and become a nicer person. It does not mean that. As I stated previously, the word which is translated from the Greek as repent in English actually is μετανοώ, which literally means to change one's mind. Yes, the Bible repeatedly insists that people need to change their minds.

In fact, as I pointed out yesterday, the Bible states in several places that God repented. Did God forsake His sin when He repented?

Okay, well let me explain it to you. There are certain things we can do that bring trouble into our lives. The Lord called these things "sin" and through his commandments warned us not to do these things.

JESUS=G.O.A.T · Mar 16, 2018

Unofficial Reverand Alex said:
A question recently came to my mind, and I thought I'd come here to ask it:
If Sola Fide (faith alone) is valid, i.e., all we need is belief in Christ and we'll be saved, then what's up with all the Bible verses about sins being forgiven? There's the story in Luke 7, numerous instances in Paul's letters, all sorts of things about "Your love covers up a multitude of sins", or the closing of James, "Anyone who converts a sinner from his ways covers over a multitude of sins."
If all we need is faith, than why are we worried about doing things to cover over sins? Why would God inspire people to write these things?

Cause beleving alone isn’t salvation. Mark 16:16 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned John 3:5 5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

bbbbbbb · Mar 16, 2018

dreadnought said:
Okay, well let me explain it to you. There are certain things we can do that bring trouble into our lives. The Lord called these things "sin" and through his commandments warned us not to do these things.

Why don't you answer my question? Did God repent of His sin or not?

JESUS=G.O.A.T · Mar 16, 2018

bbbbbbb said:
You assume, wrongly, that repent means to clean up your act and become a nicer person. It does not mean that. As I stated previously, the word which is translated from the Greek as repent in English actually is μετανοώ, which literally means to change one's mind. Yes, the Bible repeatedly insists that people need to change their minds.

In fact, as I pointed out yesterday, the Bible states in several places that God repented. Did God forsake His sin when He repented?

did God have to get a new mind when he repented though? Because the word repent means inward change resulting in an outward change of behavior.

Yet God says he is the same and changes not....

Why compare God's repentance in Genesis (and other spots) to the human ones?

Ματθαίος · Mar 16, 2018

Unofficial Reverand Alex said:
A question recently came to my mind, and I thought I'd come here to ask it:
If Sola Fide (faith alone) is valid, i.e., all we need is belief in Christ and we'll be saved, then what's up with all the Bible verses about sins being forgiven? There's the story in Luke 7, numerous instances in Paul's letters, all sorts of things about "Your love covers up a multitude of sins", or the closing of James, "Anyone who converts a sinner from his ways covers over a multitude of sins."
If all we need is faith, than why are we worried about doing things to cover over sins? Why would God inspire people to write these things?

Of course faith is enough. Because only Jésus Christ saves.

JESUS=G.O.A.T · Mar 16, 2018

Ματθαίος said:
Of course faith is enough. Because only Jésus Christ saves.

.....but faith and believe are different words...I feel people never understand that. Similar but different.

faith= to be reliable, converted, and dedicated in the greek comes from the word pistis if I remember right.

Believe is just....believing.... and the bible says to believe and be baptized. I feel we forget that sometimes.

Ματθαίος · Mar 16, 2018

JESUS=G.O.A.T said:
.....but faith and believe are different words...I feel people never understand that. Similar but different.

Let's not start the game of semantics.

JESUS=G.O.A.T · Mar 16, 2018

Ματθαίος said:
Let's not start the game of semantics.

why not? the Word is what we are talking about semantics is relevant.

JESUS=G.O.A.T · Mar 16, 2018

Ματθαίος said:
Let's not start the game of semantics.

anyway I guess to get straight to the point....sure faith alone saves....but faith isn't just believing.

"have you received the holy ghost since you believed"

"believe and be baptized you're saved"
"repent...be baptized....get holy ghost

etc.

Faith alone saves...but to equate faith with just believing would be wrong. Believing is just a part of the whole thing.

Ματθαίος · Mar 16, 2018

JESUS=G.O.A.T said:
anyway I guess to get straight to the point....sure faith alone saves....but faith isn't just believing.

"have you received the holy ghost since you believed"

"believe and be baptized you're saved"
"repent...be baptized....get holy ghost

etc.

Faith alone saves...but to equate faith with just believing would be wrong. Believing is just a part of the whole thing.

Wow. This is interesting.

JESUS=G.O.A.T · Mar 16, 2018

Ματθαίος said:
Wow. This is interesting.

The bible is interesting indeed.

Ματθαίος · Mar 16, 2018

JESUS=G.O.A.T said:
The bible is interesting indeed.

To say the least.

JESUS=G.O.A.T · Mar 16, 2018

Ματθαίος said:
To say the least.

I agree it's in faith alone, just people assume that means they don't have to repent or anything.

bbbbbbb · Mar 16, 2018

JESUS=G.O.A.T said:
did God have to get a new mind when he repented though? Because the word repent means inward change resulting in an outward change of behavior.

Yet God says he is the same and changes not....

Why compare God's repentance in Genesis (and other spots) to the human ones?

The topic du jour has been the need to repent and certain individuals are quite insistent that repentance always means forsaking sin. My point is that it certainly does not mean that and that one cannot find the term "repent from your sin" anywhere in the Bible.

Here is just a sampling of interesting Bible verses concerning God's repentance.

Genesis 6:6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

I Samuel 15:10 Then came the word of the Lord unto Samuel, saying, 11 It repenteth me that I have set up Saul to be king: for he is turned back from following me, and hath not performed my commandments. And it grieved Samuel; and he cried unto the Lord all night.

Exodus 32:12 Wherefore should the Egyptians speak, and say, For mischief did he bring them out, to slay them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth? Turn from thy fierce wrath, and repent of this evil against thy people.
13 Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit it for ever.

II Samuel 24:16 And when the angel stretched out his hand upon Jerusalem to destroy it, the Lord repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed the people, It is enough: stay now thine hand. And the angel of the Lord was by the threshingplace of Araunah the Jebusite.

I Chronicles 21:15 And God sent an angel unto Jerusalem to destroy it: and as he was destroying, the Lord beheld, and he repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed, It is enough, stay now thine hand. And the angel of the Lord stood by the threshingfloor of Ornan the Jebusite.

Psalm 106:44 Nevertheless he regarded their affliction, when he heard their cry:
45 And he remembered for them his covenant, and repented according to the multitude of his mercies.

Jeremiah 18:8 If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.

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