Is Speaking In Tongues Biblical Today?

swordsman1

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Which book of Fee's are you quoting. I have a few and would like to look it up.

Gordon Fee - Paul, the Spirit, and the People of God, Chapter 14.

The question as to whether the “speaking in tongues” in contemporary Pentecostal and charismatic communities is the same in kind as that in the Pauline churches is moot – and probably somewhat irrelevant. There is simply no way to know. As an experienced phenomenon, it is analogous to theirs, meaning that it is understood to be a supernatural activity of the Spirit, which function in many of the same ways, and for many of its practitioners has similar value to that described by Paul.
 
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pescador

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You miraculously speak a foreign human language you have never learned before? Acts 2:4-11 is the only description of tongues in scripture.

Wrong. Read 1 Corinthians, where "tongues" (non-intelligible languages which can be interpreted) is mentioned twelve times.

Acts uses the word "tongues" differently. It refers to existing foreign languages.

Why are you trying to deny one of the gifts of the Spirit?
 
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swordsman1

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Wrong. Read 1 Corinthians, where "tongues" (non-intelligible languages which can be interpreted) is mentioned twelve times.

Acts uses the word "tongues" differently. It refers to existing foreign languages.

Why are you trying to deny one of the gifts of the Spirit?

Where in 1 Corinthians does it say tongues is a non-human language? Tongues as a foreign language is fully compatible with 1 Corinthians.
 
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bbbbbbb

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I don't fear the Lord. He is my heavenly Dad, my Abba. If you fear him please tell me why (without quoting verses out of context). Hint: In the parable, the prodigal son feared his father, and he was so wrong.

I hope these verses help you out.

Deuteronomy 6:24 "So the LORD commanded us to observe all these statutes, to fear the LORD our God for our good always and for our survival, as it is today

Psalm 25:12 Who is the man who fears the LORD? He will instruct him in the way he should choose.

Psalm 31:19 How great is Your goodness, Which You have stored up for those who fear You, Which You have wrought for those who take refuge in You, Before the sons of men!

Psalm 33:18-19 Behold, the eye of the LORD is on those who fear Him, On those who hope for His lovingkindness,

Psalm 34:7 The angel of the LORD encamps around those who fear Him, And rescues them.

Psalm 34:9 O fear the LORD, you His saints; For to those who fear Him there is no want.

Psalm 145:19 He will fulfill the desire of those who fear Him; He will also hear their cry and will save them.

Psalm 147:11 The LORD favors those who fear Him, Those who wait for His lovingkindness.

Psalm 85:9 Surely His salvation is near to those who fear Him, That glory may dwell in our land.

Psalm 60:4 You have given a banner to those who fear You, That it may be displayed because of the truth. Selah.

Psalm 103:11 For as high as the heavens are above the earth, So great is His lovingkindness toward those who fear Him.

Psalm 111:10 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom;
all who follow his precepts have good understanding.
To him belongs eternal praise.

Psalm 111:5 He has given food to those who fear Him; He will remember His covenant forever.

Psalm 112:1 Praise the LORD! How blessed is the man who fears the LORD, Who greatly delights in His commandments.

Psalm 115:11 You who fear the LORD, trust in the LORD; He is their help and their shield.

Psalm 115:13 He will bless those who fear the LORD, The small together with the great.

Psalm 128:1-4 How blessed is everyone who fears the LORD, Who walks in His ways.

Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Proverbs 9:10 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom,
and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.

Proverbs 10:27 The fear of the LORD prolongs life, But the years of the wicked will be shortened.

Proverbs 14:26-27 In the fear of the LORD there is strong confidence, And his children will have refuge.

Proverbs 15:16 Better is a little with the fear of the LORD Than great treasure and turmoil with it.

Proverbs 19:23 The fear of the LORD leads to life, So that one may sleep satisfied, untouched by evil.

Proverbs 22:4 The reward of humility and the fear of the LORD Are riches, honor and life.

Ecclesiastes 7:18 It is good that you grasp one thing and also not let go of the other; for the one who fears God comes forth with both of them.

Ecclesiastes 8:12-13 Although a sinner does evil a hundred times and may lengthen his life, still I know that it will be well for those who fear God, who fear Him openly.

Isaiah 33:6 And He will be the stability of your times, A wealth of salvation, wisdom and knowledge; The fear of the LORD is his treasure.

Malachi 3:16-17 Then those who feared the LORD spoke to one another, and the LORD gave attention and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before Him for those who fear the LORD and who esteem His name.

Malachi 4:2 "But for you who fear My name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings; and you will go forth and skip about like calves from the stall.

Luke 1:50 "AND HIS MERCY IS UPON GENERATION AFTER GENERATION TOWARD THOSE WHO FEAR HIM.

Revelation 11:18 "And the nations were enraged, and Your wrath came, and the time came for the dead to be judged, and the time to reward Your bond-servants the prophets and the saints and those who fear Your name, the small and the great, and to destroy those who destroy the earth."
 
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Francis Drake

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You miraculously speak a foreign human language you have never learned before? Acts 2:4-11 is the only description of tongues in scripture.
There's more than just Acts2.

1Cor13v1If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become a sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.
Tongues of angels immediately puts the language outside of human comprehension.

Acts10v44Of Peter still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those hearing the word. 45And the believers from the circumcision, as many as had come with Peter, were amazed that the gift of the Holy Spirit has been poured out even upon the Gentiles. 46For they were hearing them speaking in tongues and magnifying God.

Speaking in tongues here had to be something other than what was understood by Peter and his Jewish companions who probably spoke Greek or Aramaic. Even if they couldn't understand the language of Rome, they would recognise it when spoken.
This indicates that Cornelius and his friends all spoke in unrecognisable languages, which is why he calls it Tongues.
 
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pescador

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Where in 1 Corinthians does it say tongues is a non-human language? Tongues as a foreign language is fully compatible with 1 Corinthians.

1 Corinthians 13:1 "If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal." What do you think the tongue of angels sounds like? It is clearly different than the tongues of men, and requires interpretation by someone who has that gift.

I'm certain that you can't be convinced about speaking in tongues, i.e., non-human languages, even though I and many others have received this gift from the Holy Spirit. I'm not sure why, but you are intent on denying a biblical gift that God has given to others but not you. Are you jealous?
 
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pescador

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I hope these verses help you out.

Deuteronomy 6:24 "So the LORD commanded us to observe all these statutes, to fear the LORD our God for our good always and for our survival, as it is today

Psalm 25:12 Who is the man who fears the LORD? He will instruct him in the way he should choose.

Psalm 31:19 How great is Your goodness, Which You have stored up for those who fear You, Which You have wrought for those who take refuge in You, Before the sons of men!

Psalm 33:18-19 Behold, the eye of the LORD is on those who fear Him, On those who hope for His lovingkindness,

Psalm 34:7 The angel of the LORD encamps around those who fear Him, And rescues them.

Psalm 34:9 O fear the LORD, you His saints; For to those who fear Him there is no want.

Psalm 145:19 He will fulfill the desire of those who fear Him; He will also hear their cry and will save them.

Psalm 147:11 The LORD favors those who fear Him, Those who wait for His lovingkindness.

Psalm 85:9 Surely His salvation is near to those who fear Him, That glory may dwell in our land.

Psalm 60:4 You have given a banner to those who fear You, That it may be displayed because of the truth. Selah.

Psalm 103:11 For as high as the heavens are above the earth, So great is His lovingkindness toward those who fear Him.

Psalm 111:10 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom;
all who follow his precepts have good understanding.
To him belongs eternal praise.

Psalm 111:5 He has given food to those who fear Him; He will remember His covenant forever.

Psalm 112:1 Praise the LORD! How blessed is the man who fears the LORD, Who greatly delights in His commandments.

Psalm 115:11 You who fear the LORD, trust in the LORD; He is their help and their shield.

Psalm 115:13 He will bless those who fear the LORD, The small together with the great.

Psalm 128:1-4 How blessed is everyone who fears the LORD, Who walks in His ways.

Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Proverbs 9:10 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom,
and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.

Proverbs 10:27 The fear of the LORD prolongs life, But the years of the wicked will be shortened.

Proverbs 14:26-27 In the fear of the LORD there is strong confidence, And his children will have refuge.

Proverbs 15:16 Better is a little with the fear of the LORD Than great treasure and turmoil with it.

Proverbs 19:23 The fear of the LORD leads to life, So that one may sleep satisfied, untouched by evil.

Proverbs 22:4 The reward of humility and the fear of the LORD Are riches, honor and life.

Ecclesiastes 7:18 It is good that you grasp one thing and also not let go of the other; for the one who fears God comes forth with both of them.

Ecclesiastes 8:12-13 Although a sinner does evil a hundred times and may lengthen his life, still I know that it will be well for those who fear God, who fear Him openly.

Isaiah 33:6 And He will be the stability of your times, A wealth of salvation, wisdom and knowledge; The fear of the LORD is his treasure.

Malachi 3:16-17 Then those who feared the LORD spoke to one another, and the LORD gave attention and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before Him for those who fear the LORD and who esteem His name.

Malachi 4:2 "But for you who fear My name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings; and you will go forth and skip about like calves from the stall.

Luke 1:50 "AND HIS MERCY IS UPON GENERATION AFTER GENERATION TOWARD THOSE WHO FEAR HIM.

Revelation 11:18 "And the nations were enraged, and Your wrath came, and the time came for the dead to be judged, and the time to reward Your bond-servants the prophets and the saints and those who fear Your name, the small and the great, and to destroy those who destroy the earth."

The first part of the list are ALL from the Old Testament, which was written before the New Covenant was put into effect. No Christian is bound by that covenant.

Luke and the other gospels were written to those not living under the New Covenant.

Revelation was written to tell what would happen in the future. In your quote, there are three groups that will be rewarded: prophets, saints (Christians), and "those who fear Your name" (non-Christians). Notice the difference between the last two. Apparently some non-Christians will be rewarded, but that is another topic.

If you want to live in fear of our loving eternal father, that's your choice. If God loves me, why should I fear him? It's self-contradictory.
 
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swordsman1

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1Cor13v1If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become a sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.
Tongues of angels immediately puts the language outside of human comprehension.

Read the next 2 verses. Paul is not saying that he or anyone else speaks in the language of angels. He is imagining an exaggerated scenario to make a point. He is saying even if someone could speak in tongues to the ultimate degree conceivable (speaking the language of angels), but not have love, it would be worthless. We can tell this because he does the same with 3 other gifts in the next 2 verses - having the gift of prophesy to the ultimate degree of knowing ALL mysteries and ALL knowledge (ie. omniscience); having the gift of faith to the ultimate degree of moving mountains; and having the gift of giving to the ultimate degree of giving up ALL you possess to the poor and even giving up your own life. Paul is saying that even if someone had those gifts to such a superlative degree, without love, it would be to no avail.


Acts10v44Of Peter still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those hearing the word. 45And the believers from the circumcision, as many as had come with Peter, were amazed that the gift of the Holy Spirit has been poured out even upon the Gentiles. 46For they were hearing them speaking in tongues and magnifying God.

Speaking in tongues here had to be something other than what was understood by Peter and his Jewish companions who probably spoke Greek or Aramaic. Even if they couldn't understand the language of Rome, they would recognise it when spoken.
This indicates that Cornelius and his friends all spoke in unrecognisable languages, which is why he calls it Tongues.

The tongues spoken at Cornelius's household was exactly the same as those spoken at Pentecost. Peter says so in Acts 10:47. Peter said that Cornelius had received the Holy Spirit "just as we did". If the gentiles received the Spirit in a different manner then Peter was lying. It was only on the basis of the Gentile tongues being the same as theirs that the gentiles were accepted into the church; they would never have been accepted as equals otherwise.
 
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1stcenturylady

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Gordon Fee - Paul, the Spirit, and the People of God, Chapter 14.

The question as to whether the “speaking in tongues” in contemporary Pentecostal and charismatic communities is the same in kind as that in the Pauline churches is moot – and probably somewhat irrelevant. There is simply no way to know. As an experienced phenomenon, it is analogous to theirs, meaning that it is understood to be a supernatural activity of the Spirit, which function in many of the same ways, and for many of its practitioners has similar value to that described by Paul.

Thanks very much.
 
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1stcenturylady

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But it doesn't say "worship" it says "fear". The meaning is 100% clear.

Well, that is also right though. I love God and we have a relationship where He speaks to me, even performs miracles. But I also know what He can do to the wicked. So do I want to test Him on that and be wicked? NOT ME!
 
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Read the next 2 verses. Paul is not saying that he or anyone else speaks in the language of angels. He is imagining an exaggerated scenario to make a point. He is saying even if someone could speak in tongues to the ultimate degree conceivable (speaking the language of angels), but not have love, it would be worthless. We can tell this because he does the same with 3 other gifts in the next 2 verses - having the gift of prophesy to the ultimate degree of knowing ALL mysteries and ALL knowledge (ie. omniscience); having the gift of faith to the ultimate degree of moving mountains; and having the gift of giving to the ultimate degree of giving up ALL you possess to the poor and even giving up your own life. Paul is saying that even if someone had those gifts to such a superlative degree, without love, it would be to no avail.




The tongues spoken at Cornelius's household was exactly the same as those spoken at Pentecost. Peter says so in Acts 10:47. Peter said that Cornelius had received the Holy Spirit "just as we did". If the gentiles received the Spirit in a different manner then Peter was lying. It was only on the basis of the Gentile tongues being the same as theirs that the gentiles were accepted into the church; they would never have been accepted as equals otherwise.

Apparently there is no changing your unbelief, so I won't bother trying to convince you. God has given me a gift through the Holy Spirit which he gave me long ago. You can call me delusional and try to convince me by your logic that I don't have that gift, but I do have it. End of discussion.
 
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Well, that is also right though. I love God and we have a relationship where He speaks to me, even performs miracles. But I also know what He can do to the wicked. So do I want to test Him on that and be wicked? NOT ME!

Is that really your concern? If you are struggling with not being "wicked" then you must rely on the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Paul told the Galatians, "I have been crucified with Christ, and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. So the life I now live in the body, I live because of the faithfulness of the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
 
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1stcenturylady

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Gordon Fee - Paul, the Spirit, and the People of God, Chapter 14.

The question as to whether the “speaking in tongues” in contemporary Pentecostal and charismatic communities is the same in kind as that in the Pauline churches is moot – and probably somewhat irrelevant. There is simply no way to know. As an experienced phenomenon, it is analogous to theirs, meaning that it is understood to be a supernatural activity of the Spirit, which function in many of the same ways, and for many of its practitioners has similar value to that described by Paul.

You said: "Even Pentecostalism's most respected theologian Gordon Fee is not convinced that what is practiced today in Pentecostal circles is NT tongues."

You lead us to believe he was "not convinced." When in reality he said it is "moot as there is simply no way to know."

Naughty boy ;)
 
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1stcenturylady

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Is that really your concern? If you are struggling with not being "wicked" then you must rely on the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Paul told the Galatians, "I have been crucified with Christ, and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. So the life I now live in the body, I live because of the faithfulness of the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

Of course, but I do remember times when I didn't hear from God directly, I'd think back and remember something I did that separated us. I repented, and I heard His voice again.

Hearing His voice is the most precious thing in my life. The fear of the Lord keeps me in line.
 
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Of course, but I do remember times when I didn't hear from God directly, I'd think back and remember something I did that separated us. I repented, and I heard His voice again.

Hearing His voice is the most precious thing in my life. The fear of the Lord keeps me in line.

I repent because of my love for God and vice versa. I don't fear him at all.

I love my wife, and I don't fear her. I love my children, and I don't fear them. I love my grandchildren, and I don't fear them. I certainly don't want any of them to fear me. And I am only a human, not God.
 
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swordsman1

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Apparently there is no changing your unbelief, so I won't bother trying to convince you. God has given me a gift through the Holy Spirit which he gave me long ago. You can call me delusional and try to convince me by your logic that I don't have that gift, but I do have it. End of discussion.

Well you are reasoning from your experience. I am reasoning from scripture.

You have indeed experienced something, but I don't believe it is the NT gift of tongues. It seems what you have experienced is the natural phenomenon of the flesh known to linguists as free vocalization or glossolalia, where the human speech organs go into 'autopilot' and produce strings of random syllables. The phenomenon has been well studied and found to be fundamentally not a language. Neither is it unique to Christianity. The idea of tongues being a non-human, unintelligible language has only been taught in the church since the beginning of the 20th Century. Before then it was pretty much universally agreed that tongues was miraculously speaking foreign human languages - from the time of the church fathers (immediately after the apostolic age) onwards.
 
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swordsman1

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You said: "Even Pentecostalism's most respected theologian Gordon Fee is not convinced that what is practiced today in Pentecostal circles is NT tongues."

You lead us to believe he was "not convinced." When in reality he said it is "moot as there is simply no way to know."

Naughty boy ;)

Not at all. Clearly Fee is not convinced if he says that today's tongues is only something 'analogous' to NT tongues.
 
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1stcenturylady

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Well you are reasoning from your experience. I am reasoning from scripture.

You have indeed experienced something, but I don't believe it is the NT gift of tongues. It seems what you have experienced is the natural phenomenon of the flesh known to linguists as free vocalization or glossolalia, where the human speech organs go into 'autopilot' and produce strings of random syllables. The phenomenon has been well studied and found to be fundamentally not a language. Neither is it unique to Christianity. The idea of tongues being a non-human, unintelligible language has only been taught in the church since the beginning of the 20th Century. Before then it was pretty much universally agreed that tongues was miraculously speaking foreign human languages - from the time of the church fathers (immediately after the apostolic age) onwards.

Trust in the Lord with all your heart,
And lean not on your own understanding;
6 In all your ways acknowledge Him,
And He shall direct your paths.
 
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