Melchizedek (c:

com7fy8 · Mar 6, 2018

"having neither beginning of days nor end of life, being made like the Son of God" (in Hebrews 7:3)

Yes, there are people who understand that Melchizedek was Jesus on this earth, since he has no beginning of days. But this scripture does say he is "like" the Son of God. It does not say he is. But "like", for all I know, could mean that on earth He was "like" how He now is on the throne, no longer in an unresurrected earthen body; so I am open about this.

But, in case you please to explore the possibility that Melchizedek is still on this earth > can you imagine being this guy who can not die? And you have been living on this earth all through past human history, with all the things going on that we have been told about, in history.

You can't die; you are guaranteed however God will take care of you. Where do you go? What do you do?

For all I know, it is possible that ones of us have actually met Melchizedek and talked with him. I am thinking, what kind of a conversation would we have?

"Hi, I'm Mel."

"Oh, hi! It's nice to meet you; welcome to our church. Where are you from?"

"Everywhere."

"Where were you born?"

"Nowhere."

Maybe he would not quite get into conversations.

I can think of one person who could have been Melchizedek. I was integrating an inner city church, serving at the door. And someone came in and walked to the front while everyone was having a crazy-house Holy Ghost praise service. And the person faced sort of toward me and lifted and waved hands at me, while at times leaning over to the side a little bit and then bending back up straight. A couple of church members escorted the person from our storefront.

And now, when I am waiting for the bus to take me to visit my lady friend, I am leaning over and looking for the bus, then waving my hands when I see it.

So, may be that was not a neighborhood luny-toon person. Who knows where that person came from . . . or if the person was ever born?

Yeshua HaDerekh · Mar 6, 2018

Melekh...Tzaddik....King...Righteous

Steve Petersen · Mar 6, 2018

com7fy8 said:
"having neither beginning of days nor end of life, being made like the Son of God" (in Hebrews 7:3)

All this means is no one knew his genealogy.

ViaCrucis · Mar 6, 2018

Steve Petersen said:
All this means is no one knew his genealogy.

And the author of Hebrews is using Melchizedek to highlight that Jesus is high priest outside of the lineage of Aaron. And that's really about it.

-CryptoLutheran

Tanj · Mar 6, 2018

Kewl name though. Wonder what effect it would have had on Christianity if the son of God had been named Melchizedek instead of Jesus.

mark kennedy · Mar 6, 2018

Your making too much about this, it doesn't matter who he was, we know everything we need to know about him. He was the king and high priest of Jerusalem before Abraham ever knew there was such a place. God always has and always will cherish that city for reasons only he can understand. When God called Abraham to that place he had already decided this city, above all others, would be his personal favorite. No one knows why, one thing we know, he already had a king/priest there.

Grace and peace,
Mark

ViaCrucis · Mar 6, 2018

Tanj said:
Kewl name though. Wonder what effect it would have had on Christianity if the son of God had been named Melchizedek instead of Jesus.

There's the possibility that this is a title, rather than a name. Melek means "king" and tzedek means "righteousness" or "justice" in Hebrew. So literally "king of righteousness" or "king of justice"; the biblical narrative portrays him as the king-priest of Salem. A brief Wikipedia search also taught me that ancient Jewish tradition identifies Melchizedek with Shem, the son of Noah, having apparently survived into very advanced age--which at least would be consistent with the interpretation that Melchizedek is meant to be titular rather than a proper name.

That said, the figure is rather mysterious, a point which later writers and commentators have utilized for a variety of purposes. Unfortunately sometimes the biblical narratives seem to go out of their way to make a big deal of this or that detail, and then never address it further. Much like the nephilim of Genesis 6, which has led to no end of endless and often bizarre speculation.

-CryptoLutheran

Yeshua HaDerekh · Mar 6, 2018

[QUOTE="com7fy8, post: 72404892, member: 331347] can you imagine being this guy who can not die? And you have been living on this earth all through past human history, with all the things going on that we have been told about, in history.

[/QUOTE]

The same was said by some regarding Kayin (Cain) and Elazar (Lazarus).

Dave-W · Mar 7, 2018

Tanj said:
Kewl name though. Wonder what effect it would have had on Christianity if the son of God had been named Melchizedek instead of Jesus.

Some say Melchizedek WAS Jesus.

Tanj · Mar 7, 2018

Dave-W said:
Some say Melchizedek WAS Jesus.

Not enough to have it engraved over a cross though.

FreeinChrist · Mar 7, 2018

MOD HAT

This is being moved from The Kitchen Sink to General Theology. Theological topics are not allowed in The Kitchen Sink.

Citizen of the Kingdom · Mar 8, 2018

Melchizedec's being king of righteousness in relationship to Christ means that Christ made things right with God (propitiation) and right with one another. Isaiah 32:1
while being the King of the city Salem meaning Peace means that the Lord's New JeruSalem's Kingship has brought in Peace on earth, goodwill to mankind. The reference would be toward His priesthood and kingship bringing in righteousness to acquire peace and assurance to humankind because of His exalted position.

Peace fulfills the ministry of the priesthood while His lineage to Kingship becoming the priesthood makes His Priesthood royal. By the glory and virtue of the proceeding He has produced a royal priesthood of followers to show forth His glorious virtues 2 Peter 1:3

Isaiah 32:17
And the work of righteousness will be peace, And the result of righteousness, quietness and assurance forever.

yeshuasavedme · Mar 8, 2018

com7fy8 said:
"having neither beginning of days nor end of life, being made like the Son of God" (in Hebrews 7:3)

Yes, there are people who understand that Melchizedek was Jesus on this earth, since he has no beginning of days. But this scripture does say he is "like" the Son of God. It does not say he is. But "like", for all I know, could mean that on earth He was "like" how He now is on the throne, no longer in an unresurrected earthen body; so I am open about this.

The word means the "King of Righteousness", and the passage in Hebrews says "made like", and the meaning in the original is "morphosed" into the image of the Son of God....who has no beginning of days nor end of life.
The "made like" "King of Righteousness" is not named in the passage specifically for the purpose of "making him like" the Son of God, etc.
His name was known, and the ancient writings of the Jews state that he is Shem.
Go look it up in Hebrew writings.
Shem gave the blessing of "firstborn" to Abram. Shem got it from Noah, though he was not the elder son of Noah, as the Word states, but he received the blessing that passed from Adam, to Cain, then Seth, after Cain lost it when he killed Abel; and Seth passed it to his son, and so on....

Moses had the blessing, and gave only the high priest position to Aaron and baptized him into the office and anointed him with the "oil of Messiah", but Moses served as priest and king before he passed the blessing on.
There was no King of Righteousness who was also the priest of the Most High God, again, until John baptized Jesus into the office by the "baptism unto righteousness".
Jesus is now High Priest and High King of earth, in the order of Melchi [king] zedek [righteousness], and the Spirit came down upon Him to anoint Him into that office after John baptized Him. He has ransomed the earth back for Himself, which Adam had been given and sold into sin and corruption, at the fall.
Now we have an everlasting Father seated on the throne in heaven who is our High Priest and who will never die, and He is our soon coming High King over all the earth, when He takes His great power unto Himself and reigns, and restores all things that Adam had and lost; but in His New Creation human being name, which is not "Adam, as to His kind, but "Israel", as to the New Creation Man name..

Ron Gurley · Mar 8, 2018

Genesis 14:18 (All NASB)
And Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine; now he was a priest of God Most High.

Psalm 110:4
The Lord has sworn and will not change His mind, “You are a priest forever According to the order of Melchizedek.”

Hebrews 5:6
just as He says also in another passage, “You are a priest forever According to the order of Melchizedek.”

Hebrews 5:10
being designated by God as a high priest according to the order of Melchizedek.

Hebrews 6:20
where Jesus has entered as a forerunner for us, having become a high priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.

Hebrews 7:1 [ Melchizedek’s Priesthood Like Christ’s ]
For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, who met Abraham as he was returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him,

Hebrews 7:10
for he was still in the loins of his father when Melchizedek met him.

Hebrews 7:11
Now if perfection was through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the people received the Law), what further need was there for another priest to arise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be designated according to the order of Aaron?

Hebrews 7:15
And this is clearer still, if another priest arises according to the likeness of Melchizedek,

Hebrews 7:17
For it is attested of Him, “You are a priest forever According to the order of Melchizedek.”

You figger it out!!

DamianWarS · Mar 9, 2018

com7fy8 said:
"having neither beginning of days nor end of life, being made like the Son of God" (in Hebrews 7:3)

Yes, there are people who understand that Melchizedek was Jesus on this earth, since he has no beginning of days. But this scripture does say he is "like" the Son of God. It does not say he is. But "like", for all I know, could mean that on earth He was "like" how He now is on the throne, no longer in an unresurrected earthen body; so I am open about this.

But, in case you please to explore the possibility that Melchizedek is still on this earth > can you imagine being this guy who can not die? And you have been living on this earth all through past human history, with all the things going on that we have been told about, in history.

You can't die; you are guaranteed however God will take care of you. Where do you go? What do you do?

For all I know, it is possible that ones of us have actually met Melchizedek and talked with him. I am thinking, what kind of a conversation would we have?

"Hi, I'm Mel."

"Oh, hi! It's nice to meet you; welcome to our church. Where are you from?"

"Everywhere."

"Where were you born?"

"Nowhere."

Maybe he would not quite get into conversations.

I can think of one person who could have been Melchizedek. I was integrating an inner city church, serving at the door. And someone came in and walked to the front while everyone was having a crazy-house Holy Ghost praise service. And the person faced sort of toward me and lifted and waved hands at me, while at times leaning over to the side a little bit and then bending back up straight. A couple of church members escorted the person from our storefront.

And now, when I am waiting for the bus to take me to visit my lady friend, I am leaning over and looking for the bus, then waving my hands when I see it.

So, may be that was not a neighborhood luny-toon person. Who knows where that person came from . . . or if the person was ever born?

the son of God is Jesus, God incarnate which is a very specific reference. The 2nd person of the trinity, or the Word of God, may in fact have other incarnate events on earth such as Melchizedek without assuming the role as the son of God.

other persons of the bible Melchizedek could be is Shem who lived 500 years after the flood which would place him in the same period when Melchizedek appears. Shem would be the only living thing who knew the old world and lived through the flood so I would think he would be a person of interest and considered very important in his day.

yeshuasavedme · Mar 9, 2018

Ron Gurley said:
Genesis 14:18 (All NASB)
And Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine; now he was a priest of God Most High.

Psalm 110:4
The Lord has sworn and will not change His mind, “You are a priest forever According to the order of Melchizedek.”

Hebrews 5:6
just as He says also in another passage, “You are a priest forever According to the order of Melchizedek.”

Hebrews 5:10
being designated by God as a high priest according to the order of Melchizedek.

Hebrews 6:20
where Jesus has entered as a forerunner for us, having become a high priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.

Hebrews 7:1 [ Melchizedek’s Priesthood Like Christ’s ]
For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, who met Abraham as he was returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him,

Hebrews 7:10
for he was still in the loins of his father when Melchizedek met him.

Hebrews 7:11
Now if perfection was through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the people received the Law), what further need was there for another priest to arise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be designated according to the order of Aaron?

Hebrews 7:15
And this is clearer still, if another priest arises according to the likeness of Melchizedek,

Hebrews 7:17
For it is attested of Him, “You are a priest forever According to the order of Melchizedek.”

You figger it out!!

Adam was the son of God set over earth to be patriarchal king forever, and high priest for all his seed forever.
Adam died. Line of succession all died. Succession came down through Abraham, who received the blessing from Shem, who got it from Noah, who got it from the son of Enoch, Methuselah.
Moses transferred only the high priesthood to Aaron, by baptism and anointing with the "Messiah" oil.
John the Baptist transferred it back, to Jesus, the New Creation man, and the Holy Spirit of Anointing came down on Him in the form of a dove.
Yeshua is the legal, anointed High Priest of earth and the Anointed High King of earth.
John, in the proper order of descendancy from Aaron, transferred back to the New Man the office Adam wascreated to serve His Creator in, over all the earth, by the " baptism into righteousness"
It's all very legal, and Christ will forever be " Everlasting Father, High King , and the everliving Patriarchal "Priest of the Most High God, who sits on the throne in heaven, and rules his redeemed, ransomed creation, which he bought back with his own "Kinsman blood".
God gave the position of "High King forever", to David's seed.
Jesus is the legal heir to the throne through Joseph's legal and natural line.

WebersHome · Mar 10, 2018

-
Melchizedek was God's high priest in Abraham's day. (Gen 14:18-20, Heb 5:10)

Mel, along with Abraham, existed prior to the curses listed in the covenanted law that Yhvh's people agreed upon with God as per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy.

● Deut 5:2-4 . .Yhvh our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. Yhvh did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, with all those of us alive here today.

This is a very, very important detail to note seeing as how the covenant's law wasn't set up to be enforced ex post facto; i.e. it isn't retroactive.

● Gal 3:17. . The law, which came four hundred and thirty years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to cancel the promise.

Enacting the Jews' covenant after their paterfamilias' time, instead of before him or with him, was done to protect Abraham's covenant from his posterity's curse-worthy failures to comply with their own covenant. In other words; no matter how many times, nor in how many ways, Abraham's posterity breaks the laws of their own covenant, they cannot endanger the fulfillment of their father's covenant; which is a really good thing because otherwise neither Christ nor his believing followers would benefit from one of the promises God made in Abraham's covenant.

● Gal 3:8 . . Scripture, which saw in advance that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, foretold the good news to Abraham, saying, “Through you shall all the nations be blessed.” (cf. Gen 12:3)

Continuing:

● Rom 4:15 . .The law produces wrath; but where there is no law, neither is there violation.

In other words: where there is no law, there is no law to break. However; it's not saying that things like dishonesty weren't sins back in those days because they were.

● Rom 5:13a . . Up to the time of the law, sin was in the world,

Rom 4:15 is only saying that seeing as how God hadn't as yet enacted a law in Abraham's day that pronounces a curse upon dishonesty, then whenever Abraham lied; God didn't write him up for it.

● Rom 5:13b . . . Sin is not accounted when there is no law.

The koiné Greek word translated "accounted" is ellogeo (el-log-eh'-o) which essentially speaks of keeping records.

Now, according to CCC 1858; it is a grave matter for Catholics to break any one of the Ten Commandments. In other words; it is hell-worthy.

There's a fatal flaw in that rule. Know what it is? Well; the Ten Commandments weren't covenanted law in Melchizedek's day; nor were there any covenanted curses for breaking them; i.e. breaking the Ten Commandments within the scope of Mel's priesthood wasn't hell-worthy. So then, seeing as how Christ's priesthood is patterned after Mel's (Ps 110:4, Heb 5:1-7:28), then breaking the Ten Commandments isn't hell-worthy within the scope of Christ's priesthood either.

Bottom line: When a religion such as Roman Catholicism makes its followers' safety from hell dependent upon compliance with the Ten commandments, they have shunned Christ's priesthood and placed their followers within the scope of Aaron's priesthood-- i.e. within the jurisdiction of the curses listed in the covenant that Yhvh's people agreed upon with God as per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy; a covenant that condemns people to hell quicker, and with more efficiency, than anything I can think of.

/

yeshuasavedme · Mar 11, 2018

God gave all tribes his "laws of righteousness" and the promise of the Messiah.
Messiah/Redeemer was promised to Adam and the seed in his loins at the time of the fall.
Adam was priest of the most high God and made in His One image, as "Adam, son of God", and set in Paradise above to reign over earth forever, and to populate it with the "holy seed/ sons of God of human being kind" (Malachi 3:15), and to be transformed and sit on the throne in heaven's Holy Mountain after he lived his "day=1,000 years), as the human being son of God and high king and high priest forever.
Adam became defiled, all the seed in his loins became defiled. Adam got thrown down to earth and the gate to Paradise in the third heaven (Paradise is in the third heaven, as Paul states in his writings and Jesus corroborates it's still there, and the Tree of Life in its midst, still), and The gate of entry was guarded so that the entire creation of the Adam human being race would not enter and eat of Tree of Life and live forever, as never dying worms and cast always in the Lake of Fire, forever.
So the priesthood belongs to the Patriarchal Line from Adam, and the High Priesthood belongs to the Seed of David, forever, which Seed is The Christ come in flesh.
I posted how Shem passed the "blessing" of the office to Abraham, and so on, down to Christ Jesus, who is the "Everlasting Father" and High King of earth by His ransom of it back, as Redeemer Kinsman.
Noah gave the laws of righteousness to his sons when they came off the boat.
Torah is given to the seed of Jacob/Israel as signs to rehearse of the Messiah's Person and work, until the New Creation and all elements regenerated.

WebersHome · Mar 11, 2018

-

WebersHome said:
the Ten Commandments weren't covenanted law in Melchizedek's day; nor were there any covenanted curses for breaking them; i.e. breaking the Ten Commandments within the scope of Mel's priesthood wasn't hell-worthy. So then, seeing as how Christ's priesthood is patterned after Mel's (Ps 110:4, Heb 5:1-7:28), then breaking the Ten Commandments isn't hell-worthy within the scope of Christ's priesthood either.

The apostle Paul expended quite a bit of time, energy, and writer's ink trying to convince people that it's impossible to obtain heaven by means of compliance with the Ten Commandments. He didn't succeed; not with everyone. People still refused to believe him even though he claimed to have obtained his information straight from the horse's mouth.

● Gal 1:11-13 . . For I would have you know, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ.

However, though it is impossible to obtain heaven by means of compliance with the Ten Commandments, it is essential to comply with them in order to stay in heaven; not just the Ten only, but all of God's commandments. And one's compliance cannot be spotty, it has to be flawless.

So; what's the secret to this apparent Catch-22?

The secret is found in a promise that God made to His people back in the Old Testament.

● Ezek 36:26-27 . . I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit into you: I will remove the heart of stone from your body and give you a tender heart; and I will put My spirit into you. Thus I will cause you to follow My laws and faithfully to observe My rules.

An "heart of flesh" would normally be regarded in modern Sunday school classes as a bad thing. Here in Ezekiel, flesh is juxtaposed with stone to indicate that God is talking about tenderness; which can be defined as gentleness, kindness, sensitivity, and deep affection; i.e. the warm, softer emotions.

A heart of stone is cold and dead, like those massive granite monoliths in Yosemite Valley. They feel not the slightest bit of pity for climbers who lose their grip and fall. Nope, those big rocks just go on like nothing ever happened; silent, indifferent, unconcerned, non grieving, non compassionate, and unsympathetic; i.e. they feel nothing: nothing at all.

Bottom line: Seeing as how love is essential to proper compliance with the Ten Commandments; then the thoughtless, the callous, and the insensitive would be shut out of heaven forever and ever were it not for Ezek 36:26-27.

Watch as I deliberately paraphrase the following passages. Though the texts aren't verbatim quotes from the Bible; the message the paraphrases convey is spot-on.

● John 3:3 . . I assure you: unless hard-hearted people are born again, they can never see the Kingdom of God.

● John 3:7 . . Don't be surprised at my statement that the unkind must undergo a birth performed by the hand of God.

Note that the birth performed by the hand of God, about which Jesus spoke, isn't optional; it's a must.

/

Yekcidmij · Mar 11, 2018

ViaCrucis said:
There's the possibility that this is a title, rather than a name. Melek means "king" and tzedek means "righteousness" or "justice" in Hebrew. So literally "king of righteousness" or "king of justice"; the biblical narrative portrays him as the king-priest of Salem. A brief Wikipedia search also taught me that ancient Jewish tradition identifies Melchizedek with Shem, the son of Noah, having apparently survived into very advanced age--which at least would be consistent with the interpretation that Melchizedek is meant to be titular rather than a proper name.

I suspect Melchizedek was a Jebusite priest-king of Jerusalem and that "Melchizedek" was theophoric Jebusite name. We know the Jebusites controlled Jerusalem before being conquered by David, and we have an example of a very similar theophoric name of another Jebusite ruler of Jersualem:

Josh 10:1 Adonizedek, king of Jerusalem, ... 10:3 So King Adonizedek of Jerusalem sent this message ...

Seems logical - Melchizedek was the Jebusite priest-king of Jerusalem at the time of Abraham, just like Adonizedek was the priest-king of Jerusalem at a later time.

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