Samaritan Torah

Elihoenai · Mar 5, 2018

About putting the ignorant foreigner under the knife:

HARK! said:
First there needs to be a circumcision of the heart. If the ignorant foreigner has not the heart to hear and obey YHWH's Torah; then an outward circumcision is of no effect.

visionary said:
and done for the wrong reasons.

Concerning Circumcisions:

AbbaLove said:
In case you didn't know only one physical circumcision is a prerequisite.

It's a prerequisite that Ruach HaKodesh performs the heart circumcision of a born again Believer in Messiah Yeshua and NOT man. When you receive your heart circumcision it will be by far more precious to you than your physical circumcisim.

Circumcision according to the flesh was made through Yeshua. All things according to the proper order of the faith are esteemed by the Father.

John 1:3 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

3 all things through him did happen, and without him happened not even one thing that hath happened.

Luke 2:21 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

21 And when eight days were fulfilled to circumcise the child, then was his name called Jesus, having been so called by the messenger before his being conceived in the womb.

AbbaLove · Mar 5, 2018

Elihoenai said:
Circumcision according to the flesh was made through Yeshua. All things according to the proper order of the faith are esteemed by the Father.

Circumcision of one's flesh means little without the circumcision of one's heart (spiritually speaking).

Elihoenai said:
John 1:3 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
3 all things through him did happen, and without him happened not even one thing that hath happened.
Luke 2:21 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
21 And when eight days were fulfilled to circumcise the child, then was his name called Jesus, having been so called by the messenger before his being conceived in the womb.

You seem to negate circumcision of the heart as secondary to circumcision of the flesh. For one thing such rationale excludes women giving the impression a Jewish wife is a second-class citizen compared to her Jewish husband.

The idea of “circumcision of the heart” is found in Romans 2:29. It refers to having a pure heart, separated unto God. Paul writes, “A Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter.”

“For circumcision indeed is of value if you obey the law, but if you break the law, your circumcision becomes uncircumcision. So, if a man who is uncircumcised keeps the precepts of the law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? Then he who is physically uncircumcised but keeps the law will condemn you who have the written code and circumcision but break the law. For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God.”

Elihoenai · Mar 6, 2018

AbbaLove said:
Circumcision of one's flesh means little without the circumcision of one's heart (spiritually speaking).

Father Abraham!

Genesis 17:11-12 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

11 and ye have circumcised the flesh of your foreskin, and it hath become a token of a covenant between Me and you.

12 `And a son of eight days is circumcised by you; every male to your generations, born in the house, or bought with money from any son of a stranger, who is not of thy seed;

AbbaLove said:
You seem to negate circumcision of the heart as secondary to circumcision of the flesh. For one thing such rationale excludes women giving the impression a Jewish wife is a second-class citizen compared to her Jewish husband.

Appearances can be deceiving. This is a Great Mystery!

Ephesians 5:22 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

22 The wives! to your own husbands subject yourselves, as to the Lord,

AbbaLove said:
The idea of “circumcision of the heart” is found in Romans 2:29. It refers to having a pure heart, separated unto God. Paul writes, “A Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter.”

“For circumcision indeed is of value if you obey the law, but if you break the law, your circumcision becomes uncircumcision. So, if a man who is uncircumcised keeps the precepts of the law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? Then he who is physically uncircumcised but keeps the law will condemn you who have the written code and circumcision but break the law. For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God.”

We are learned of Paul's writings, speaking with the Mind of Christ.

Heber Book List · Mar 6, 2018

Elihoenai said:
We are learned of Paul's writings, speaking with the Mind of Christ.

And by his own authority, too, not G_d's!

Elihoenai · Mar 7, 2018

About Paul's writings spoken with the Mind of Christ/Messiah:

Heber Book List said:
And by his own authority, too, not G_d's!

Those that don't understand the writings of Paul, certainly, don't understand the writings of the Hebrew Scriptures/Old Testament. It appears that only about 10 in a billion (The Elect) understand Paul's words.

The Hatred for Paul:

Paul (Saul) of Tarsus - False prophet (New Testament)

Why do Muslims hate Paul when presented with Bible verses from him? - Dr. Shabir Ally

]

Heber Book List · Mar 7, 2018

Elihoenai said:
About Paul's writings spoken with the Mind of Christ/Messiah:

Those that don't understand the writings of Paul, certainly, don't understand the writings of the Hebrew Scriptures/Old Testament. It appears that only about 10 in a billion (The Elect) understand Paul's words.

The Hatred for Paul:

Paul (Saul) of Tarsus - False prophet (New Testament)

Why do Muslims hate Paul when presented with Bible verses from him? - Dr. Shabir Ally

]

I was referring to words that he (Paul) writes as his own, and says quite clearly that they are his words, not G_d's.

AbbaLove · Mar 7, 2018

Elihoenai said:
Paul writes, “A Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter.”

So, then we agree that Paul's following words are not his own commentary, but rather compatible with the New Covenant that Yeshua instructed Paul as an Apostle (John 14:6, John 16:13, 1 John 2:27)

“For circumcision indeed is of value if you obey the law, but if you break the law, your circumcision becomes uncircumcision. So, if a man who is uncircumcised keeps the precepts of the law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? Then he who is physically uncircumcised but keeps the law will condemn you who have the written code and circumcision but break the law. For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God.”

1 Corinthians 7:10-12 is not just Paul’s personal opinion; it (verse 12) is the authoritative instruction of a chosen Apostle of the LORD.

Elihoenai · Mar 8, 2018

Heber Book List said:
I was referring to words that he (Paul) writes as his own, and says quite clearly that they are his words, not G_d's.

This is a Mystery!

1 Corinthians chapter 7 provides examples of Paul's declaration of his own words.

1 Corinthians 7 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 7 - Young's Literal Translation

1 John 2:26-27 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

26 These things I did write to you concerning those leading you astray;

27 and you, the anointing that ye did receive from him, in you it doth remain, and ye have no need that any one may teach you, but as the same anointing doth teach you concerning all, and is true, and is not a lie, and even as was taught you, ye shall remain in him.

Elihoenai · Mar 8, 2018

AbbaLove said:
So, then we agree that Paul's following words are not his own commentary, but rather compatible with the New Covenant that Yeshua instructed Paul as an Apostle (John 14:6, John 16:13, 1 John 2:27)

“For circumcision indeed is of value if you obey the law, but if you break the law, your circumcision becomes uncircumcision. So, if a man who is uncircumcised keeps the precepts of the law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? Then he who is physically uncircumcised but keeps the law will condemn you who have the written code and circumcision but break the law. For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God.”

1 Corinthians 7:10-12 is not just Paul’s personal opinion; it (verse 12) is the authoritative instruction of a chosen Apostle of the LORD.

We did not write those words that you quoted under my name Elihoenai. The "We" means The Elect, not you and me.

People calling themselves Christians are evidently clueless about the meaning of Paul's words.

Mad Muslim axes Paul to death?

Hip to be Square - American Psycho (3/12) Movie CLIP (2000) HD

HARK! · Mar 8, 2018

danny ski said:
You can circumcise your heart as much as you like, the physical circumcision is a basic commandment- the starting point.

Really? The way I remember it Avraham was the first to be circumcised for YHWH. Before he did YHWH made a covenant with him. Avraham he built an alter to YHWH, and followed YHWH's instructions. Then he built another alter along the way, and called on YHWH. Then YHWH worked on Pharaoh for Avraham. Then he left Egypt and went back to an alter, and called on the name of YHWH. Then he moved on, and built yet another alter. Then YHWH told Avraham that he is Avraham's shield. Then YHWH told Avraham that his seed would number the stars.

THEN!

(CLV) Gn 15:6
Now Abram believed on Elohim, and He reckoned it to him for righteousness.

Then it looks like Avraham made a sacrifice to YHWH. Then YHWH told Avraham to walk before him and become flawless. (What does this mean? Circumcision of the heart? He obviously already had faith and obedience to some degree.) Then YHWH gave Abram his new name, Avraham.

ONLY THEN, did YHWH tell Avraham to be circumcised

First things first.

HARK! · Mar 8, 2018

AbbaLove said:
In case you didn't know only one physical circumcision is a prerequisite.

It's a prerequisite that Ruach HaKodesh performs the heart circumcision of a born again Believer in Messiah Yeshua and NOT man. When you receive your heart circumcision it will be by far more precious to you than your physical circumcisim.

Agreed.

The way I see it, is that if you don't trust in YHWH, and let him lead you to walk in his ways; then you have not cut the idols from your heart. Our greatest idolatry is self worship. The way I see it is that outward circumcision is an outward sign of what must take place within. The way I see it is that unless the inward circumcision has taken place; the outward circumcision is in vain.

HARK! · Mar 8, 2018

Elihoenai said:
Circumcision according to the flesh was made through Yeshua. All things according to the proper order of the faith are esteemed by the Father.

John 1:3 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

3 all things through him did happen, and without him happened not even one thing that hath happened.

Luke 2:21 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

21 And when eight days were fulfilled to circumcise the child, then was his name called Jesus, having been so called by the messenger before his being conceived in the womb.

Non sequitur

Elihoenai · Mar 9, 2018

HARK! said:
Non sequitur

Ancient Hebrew Language!

Merci Beaucoup!

Latin

"...Latin was originally spoken in Latium, in the Italian Peninsula.[3] Through the power of the Roman Republic, it became the dominant language, initially in Italy and subsequently throughout the Roman Empire. Vulgar Latin developed into the Romance languages, such as Italian, Portuguese, Spanish, French, and Romanian. Latin, Greek and French have contributed many words to the English language. Latin and Ancient Greek roots are used in theology, biology, and medicine...."

Latin - Wikipedia

John Adams Meets King Louis of France

Open Heart · Mar 10, 2018

Elihoenai said:
Those that don't understand the writings of Paul, certainly, don't understand the writings of the Hebrew Scriptures/Old Testament. It appears that only about 10 in a billion (The Elect) understand Paul's words.

Wow. That would be 70 people in the entire world. Let me guess, you're one of those 70? No arrogance here.

danny ski · Mar 10, 2018

HARK! said:
Really? The way I remember it Avraham was the first to be circumcised for YHWH. Before he did YHWH made a covenant with him. Avraham he built an alter to YHWH, and followed YHWH's instructions. Then he built another alter along the way, and called on YHWH. Then YHWH worked on Pharaoh for Avraham. Then he left Egypt and went back to an alter, and called on the name of YHWH. Then he moved on, and built yet another alter. Then YHWH told Avraham that he is Avraham's shield. Then YHWH told Avraham that his seed would number the stars.

THEN!

(CLV) Gn 15:6
Now Abram believed on Elohim, and He reckoned it to him for righteousness.

Then it looks like Avraham made a sacrifice to YHWH. Then YHWH told Avraham to walk before him and become flawless. (What does this mean? Circumcision of the heart? He obviously already had faith and obedience to some degree.) Then YHWH gave Abram his new name, Avraham.

ONLY THEN, did YHWH tell Avraham to be circumcised

First things first.

The commandment is to circumcise on the eighth day after birth- no exceptions. How does an eight day old child circumcize his heart?

visionary · Mar 10, 2018

Bottom line.. never put an ignorant foreigner under the knife.

AbbaLove · Mar 10, 2018

danny ski said:
How does an eight day old child circumcize his heart?

Do i detect scarcasm?

According to Chabad the spelling isn't circumcize it's the brit milah (bris), known as circumcision with 's' not 'z'.

HARK! · Mar 10, 2018

danny ski said:
The commandment is to circumcise on the eighth day after birth- no exceptions. How does an eight day old child circumcize his heart?

The subject was not Hebrew children. The subject was those interested in drawing near to YHWH.

Avraham certainly fit that category as he learned to put his faith and obedience in YHWH.

Avraham was not circumcised in the flesh on the eighth day.

Many Hebrews stayed behind in Egypt during the time of Moshe. In contrast, many non-Hebrews left Egypt with Moshe. What did YHWH say to do with them?

(CLV) Ex 12:42
It was a night of observances for Yahweh to bring them forth from the land of Egypt. This same night is to Yahweh, observances for all the sons of Israel throughout their generations.

(CLV) Ex 12:48
In case a sojourner is sojourning with you, and he makes a passover to Yahweh, every male of his is to be circumcised, and then he may draw near to make it, and he will become as a native of the land. Yet anyone uncircumcised, he shall not eat of it.

Again, they were not circumcised in the flesh on the eighth day.

Anymore questions?

danny ski · Mar 10, 2018

HARK! said:
The subject was not Hebrew children. The subject was those interested in drawing near to YHWH.

Avraham certainly fit that category as he learned to put his faith and obedience in YHWH.

Avraham was not circumcised in the flesh on the eighth day.

Many Hebrews stayed behind in Egypt during the time of Moshe. In contrast, many non-Hebrews left Egypt with Moshe. What did YHWH say to do with them?

(CLV) Ex 12:42
It was a night of observances for Yahweh to bring them forth from the land of Egypt. This same night is to Yahweh, observances for all the sons of Israel throughout their generations.

(CLV) Ex 12:48
In case a sojourner is sojourning with you, and he makes a passover to Yahweh, every male of his is to be circumcised, and then he may draw near to make it, and he will become as a native of the land. Yet anyone uncircumcised, he shall not eat of it.

Again, they were not circumcised in the flesh on the eighth day.

Anymore questions?

Actually, Abraham is a terrible choice for an example. Firstly, he's an exception. Secondly, who would ever suggest that the call for "heart circumcision" would ever be applied to him? Heart circumcision is a call for repentance, a separation from the superficial observance. Does that even sound like Abraham? Heart circumcision is a common theme in the Tanakh, but it's not either/or proposition, one always went with the other as the prophet Ezekiel teaches. The difference for the Jewish people is that one is automatic (so to speak) and the other is a willing choice and even that is an inadequate explenation of the metaphor.

danny ski · Mar 10, 2018

AbbaLove said:
Do i detect scarcasm?

According to Chabad the spelling isn't circumcize it's the brit milah (bris), known as circumcision with 's' not 'z'.

English is not my first language. Not even second, but I do try. Honest.

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