Am I Lutheran or Methodist?

Die_Eberesche · Mar 9, 2018

Hi all.

I'm very new to these forums and I have been made incredibly welcome here already. Some of you may know a little something about me already, but I'd like to state a little more detail about myself so that you can help me in my search for peace and fulfilment.

I'm from England (specifically the North East) and I was baptised and raised as a Roman Catholic. We attended church most Sundays as a large Irish heritage family. We were never particularly zealous or fervent, but we enjoyed our faith. As the years passed by, I attended Catholic school and began to grow in my own personal faith, wanting to teach as a Catholic school teacher - a job I eventually undertook. It was a role I invested a lot of importance into. However, my faith began to dwindle for a number of reasons. The fundamentalist arrogance of some of my colleagues and fellow members began to take its toll.

A few years later and my wife had an affair. I gave her the house and kept joint custody of our child, but I was told that the Catholic Education system would struggle to have a place for me in schools should I decide to remarry. My faith began to tumble further and I lashed out against God and turned my back on Him.

As a year or so passed by, I met a wonderful woman who I fell madly in love with. She is absolutely my soul mate and I can see now that the woman I married before (although the mother of my amazing daughter) was someone who just wasn't inherently right for me.

I was told that if I remarried I would be excommunicated and, after conversations with various colleagues and priests, decided that I couldn't condone the hypocrisy and judgement for something that was simply not my fault or doing.

I left the Catholic church of my own volition and - wanting to remain a Christian - joined the Church of England. A year or so has passed since then and I am fully embracing a new relationship with Christ. It grow stronger and stronger every day.

Recently, I was drawn to Lutheranism and the simplicity of its reformed nature and the Christ-centred approach that it encouraged. It appealed to my need for a real and honest and openly sinful relationship with Christ (if that makes sense). That we could be honest with one another and have a beautiful dialogue was something that immediately appealed to me. I didn't want guilt; I wanted honesty.

I began to research Lutheranism further and decided it may be my path back to fulfilment in Christ, but then I began reading up on Methodism and I began to consider that this was perhaps another path.

I am not indecisive - I am reflective and I want to cement my relationship with Christ. I am not 'flip-flopping' through denominations as some have accused me, but instead wanting to research, consult, converse and remain true to my own beliefs and with what God is calling me towards.

As fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, I'd love to know your thoughts.

Thank you.

royal priest · Mar 9, 2018

The details you lay out in your story are a striking illustration of something I had just been thinking about. There's another thread on here asking what led us to decide on the churches we're in. That question prompted these thoughts. I did not share them there, but I feel compelled to share them here with you. This is not a direct answer to your question, but I hope you'll be able to draw some comfort as you consider God's hand in all of this.
In Paul's sermon in Acts, we learn that God has determined every man's national and cultural identity. Chapter 17:26-27 "he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place"
Moreover, Paul tells us that God is involved in our very 'living', 'moving', and 'being' (verse 28) “‘In him we live and move and have our being'"

This means that God determines what religion we are born into, and how we respond to that religion. Since, in HIM, we live, move, and have our being, God also determines the media which informs our judgement, and the circumstances which influence, or prejudice those judgments. All of this has profound implications with regard to our responses of Who God is, and in determining the nature of our relationship with Him.

I guess at the end of the day, since we will be judged by God according to our responses to His revelation to us whether through nature, or His Word; the most important question regarding where we go to church is this: is this church preparing God's people to stand before Him when He returns? Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31

danbuter · Mar 9, 2018

I'd try your local Lutheran and Methodist churches, and see which agrees with you more.

1stcenturylady · Mar 9, 2018

Die_Eberesche said:
Recently, I was drawn to Lutheranism and the simplicity of its reformed nature and the Christ-centred approach that it encouraged. It appealed to my need for a real and honest and openly sinful relationship with Christ (if that makes sense). That we could be honest with one another and have a beautiful dialogue was something that immediately appealed to me. I didn't want guilt; I wanted honesty.

This part of your story really concerns me about the teachings of Martin Luther. It may sound good, but it is the most dangerous of all church types. Jesus called the Sardis church in Rev. 2, which is the age of the Reformation, the dead church.

Jude 1:4 "...They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality...

2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

The true grace of God is not the teaching that it is "unmerited favor" that has infiltrated the church. It is actually the power of God to be DEAD TO SIN, not become "openly sinful." You need the baptism of the Holy Spirit which you receive from repentance. Acts 4:38.

Friend, read 1 John chapter 3:4-10 and tell me if this sounds like a Lutheran. Or is the false doctrine of "Sin boldly," a quote from Martin Luther, more like turning grace into a license to sin. Your eternal soul is on the line.

Of the two, choose Methodist. Stay away from any church with the word "reformed" in their title. Besides Luther, stay away from Calvinism.

Albion · Mar 9, 2018

It would be a help to us if we knew why your connection to the CofE has begun to weaken. That might tell us whether it's the Methodists or the Lutherans who would be more likely to remedy whatever the problem is.

1stcenturylady · Mar 9, 2018

Albion said:
It would be a help to us if we knew why your connection to the CofE has begun to weaken. That might tell us whether it's the Methodists or the Lutherans who would be more likely to remedy whatever the problem is.

..

Albion · Mar 9, 2018

I'm sorry for any confusion. I was asking Die_Eberesche.

actionsub · Mar 9, 2018

As Methodism began as a reform movement within the C of E that took on a life of its own because of the American Revolution, you may find more affinity with Methodism.
That said, a look at the theological journeys of both Luther and Wesley show a number of parallels. Both Luther and Wesley struggled with the ideas of faith and works before their respective enlightenments. Wesley's conversion, in which he was finally assured he was a Christian, was sparked by a public reading of Luther's commentary on Romans. This was preceded by Wesley's encounters with the Moravians, a Lutheran splinter group.
Either way, you're going to wind up with similar ideas and thinking, but different nuances on things like the sacraments and the freedom of the will.

Die_Eberesche · Mar 10, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
This part of your story really concerns me about the teachings of Martin Luther. It may sound good, but it is the most dangerous of all church types. Jesus called the Sardis church in Rev. 2, which is the age of the Reformation, the dead church.

Jude 1:4 "...They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality...

2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

The true grace of God is not the teaching that it is "unmerited favor" that has infiltrated the church. It is actually the power of God to be DEAD TO SIN, not become "openly sinful." You need the baptism of the Holy Spirit which you receive from repentance. Acts 4:38.

Friend, read 1 John chapter 3:4-10 and tell me if this sounds like a Lutheran. Or is the false doctrine of "Sin boldly," a quote from Martin Luther, more like turning grace into a license to sin. Your eternal soul is on the line.

Of the two, choose Methodist. Stay away from any church with the word "reformed" in their title. Besides Luther, stay away from Calvinism.

This is very true and I am grateful for your input here. I hope though, that I am not misunderstood in my motivation behind finding inspiration in the teaching of Luther.

I do not see his teaching as a licence for immorality, but I instead a realisation that I am not worthy and that my ego and hubris should not dominate my relationship with God. Instead that He is the almighty and I am but an insignificance; yet he has deigned me special enough in His own eyes to reach down to me.

That allows me to be humble and encourages me to be honest and open with Him. Within my Catholic faith, I was almost tempted to hide from him with the insurmountable guilt I felt at times. As though I was a constant disappointment rather than a loved and saved wretch.

I hope that makes more sense?

Die_Eberesche · Mar 10, 2018

Albion said:
It would be a help to us if we knew why your connection to the CofE has begun to weaken. That might tell us whether it's the Methodists or the Lutherans who would be more likely to remedy whatever the problem is.

In a way, it's largely due to my inexperience with Protestantism, being a Catholic for most of my life. The CofE was a natural progression as the vast majority of Christians in this country are Anglican; that was the "go to" denomination as my knowledge of other denominations was very poor. I knew that I needed to leave the Catholic faith after my tumultuous and upsetting recent experience - and in the knowledge that excommunication was at hand.

After coming to the CofE, I believe my real journey of faith began though. I read and researched and experienced more of what it is to be a Protestant and I was enraptured by it. But in reading more scripture with a 'Protestant eye' I began to believe the - not that the CofE had erred - but that the there may be another denomination that was calling me; one in which I felt a real connection to God after seemingly wandering in the desert away from Him for such a long period of time.

I see my continual pursuit of God to be a gift from Him. In seeking Him, I will truly deserve His grace and love when I find Him. But I need somewhere to call my home now; somewhere I belong and can hone my own heart as I seek God.

A haven of rest as it were...

1stcenturylady · Mar 10, 2018

Die_Eberesche said:
This is very true and I am grateful for your input here. I hope though, that I am not misunderstood in my motivation behind finding inspiration in the teaching of Luther.

I do not see his teaching as a licence for immorality, but I instead a realisation that I am not worthy and that my ego and hubris should not dominate my relationship with God. Instead that He is the almighty and I am but an insignificance; yet he has deigned me special enough in His own eyes to reach down to me.

That allows me to be humble and encourages me to be honest and open with Him. Within my Catholic faith, I was almost tempted to hide from him with the insurmountable guilt I felt at times. As though I was a constant disappointment rather than a loved and saved wretch.

I hope that makes more sense?

What you are experiencing is "integrity of heart." It is of vital importance to be honest with God, and come to Him in all humility and repentance. This is when you ask God to give you His power by baptizing you in the Holy Spirit. If in all honesty you truly want to be holy and turn away from all sin, He will place His power within you. But you must want God more than you want your sin. You will know it when He baptizes you. It is not something invisible that you must take on faith. It is like the consummation of a marriage. You KNOW when you consummate a marriage. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is just as powerful. The desire to sin vanishes away instantly. You truly become a new creature in Christ. From then on you can be lead by the Holy Spirit. Your conscience will be super-sensitized to know right choices from wrong choices. You will find yourself loving what God loves, and hating all unrighteousness. Your desire to know His Word will become intense. You will probably hear His voice as I did the night I was baptized in the Spirit, and have often since. He even tells me what to pray, I pray what He said, and it is answered immediately. It truly becomes an abundant life.

Of course you will still have free will. God doesn't want us to love Him as robots. Just resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Resist temptations. And choose your friends and peers wisely. Do not quench the Spirit.

I hope this helps you decide against "easy grace" and choose the power to be holy.

Albion · Mar 10, 2018

d

Die_Eberesche said:
After coming to the CofE, I believe my real journey of faith began though. I read and researched and experienced more of what it is to be a Protestant and I was enraptured by it. But in reading more scripture with a 'Protestant eye' I began to believe the - not that the CofE had erred - but that the there may be another denomination that was calling me; one in which I felt a real connection to God after seemingly wandering in the desert away from Him for such a long period of time.

I see my continual pursuit of God to be a gift from Him. In seeking Him, I will truly deserve His grace and love when I find Him. But I need somewhere to call my home now; somewhere I belong and can hone my own heart as I seek God.

A haven of rest as it were...

Thanks for the reply. I'm still in a quandry and wishing there were an obvious answer. My feeling is that both Lutheranism and Methodism offer a more personal kind of faith, although in somewhat different ways. In MY opinion, Lutherans (at least of the Confessional Lutheran variety) still are strong on the concept of saving Faith, but the original Methodist emphasis on holiness and social action has largely passed into being an emphasis upon social action, meaning political action.

For example, in the USA, Methodists dont actually start up colleges and hospitals as once they did, but the United Methodist Church (until the Supreme Court settled the matter) was the leading contributor to pro-abortion campaigns whenever some state put an issue before the voters. And then there are their "peace" programs and conferences, etc. There are other examples.

I say this not knowing where you stand personally, so I'm just passing on my perception of things.

1stcenturylady · Mar 10, 2018

Albion said:
d
Thanks for the reply. I'm still in a quandry and wishing there were an obvious answer. My feeling is that both Lutheranism and Methodism offer a more personal kind of faith, although in somewhat different ways. In MY opinion, Lutherans (at least of the Confessional Lutheran variety) still are strong on the concept of saving Faith, but the original Methodist emphasis on holiness and social action has largely passed into being an emphasis upon social action, meaning political action.

For example, in the USA, Methodists dont actually start up colleges and hospitals as once they did, but the United Methodist Church (until the Supreme Court settled the matter) was the leading contributor to pro-abortion campaigns whenever some state put an issue before the voters. And then there are their "peace" programs and conferences, etc. There are other examples.

I say this not knowing where you stand personally, so I'm just passing on my perception of things.

Interesting.

I just heard today that Methodists and John Wesley started out with emphasis on holiness and the Word of God. But in the past recent history there as been a schism between the original and now a more modern Methodist church. My church, that I just started going to, has decided if the Methodist denomination doesn't go back to following the Word of God as they once did, they are going to leave the denomination and join up with a Wesleyan group out of Texas, together with another group called Agape.

faroukfarouk · Mar 10, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
I just heard today that Methodists and John Wesley started out with emphasis on holiness and the Word of God. But in the past recent history there as been a schism between the original and now a more modern Methodist church. My church that I just started going to has decided if the Methodist denomination doesn't go back to following the Word of God as they once did, they are going to join up with a Wesleyan group out of Texas, together with another group called Agape.

Prayer and the Scriptures are the constants in the believer's life and local church life should reflect these vital realities.

Albion · Mar 10, 2018

Interesting. The problem there for me, 1st century lady, would be that while the Wesleyan Church is similar in some ways, it is way different in other ones. The Free Methodist Church would be a better choice IMHO if things came to that point. Of course this is rather academic coming from me since I am not a Methodist.

1stcenturylady · Mar 10, 2018

Albion said:
Interesting. The problem there for me, 1st century lady, would be that while the Wesleyan Church is similar in some ways, it is way different in other ones. The Free Methodist Church would be a better choice IMHO if things came to that point. Of course this is rather academic coming from me since I am not a Methodist.

This is the first Methodist church I've ever gone to, so don't know how the denomination has evolved. The only research I ever did was on John Wesley, himself. Wonderful man.

faroukfarouk · Mar 10, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
This is the first Methodist church I've ever gone to, so don't know how the denomination has evolved. The only research I ever did was on John Wesley, himself. Wonderful man.

I like to read John Wesley's conversion experience.

FireDragon76 · Mar 10, 2018

Maybe this will help you:

Lutheran Church in Great Britain - Wikipedia

Evangelical Lutheran Church of England - Wikipedia

MMDave3 · Apr 14, 2018

To the original poster - while I'm not sure if I can answer the question of whether or not you're Methodist or Lutheran, I can wholeheartedly say that being indecisive about what branch of the Christian tree is right for you is absolutely fine, in my opinion. You said "I am not 'flip-flopping' through denominations as some have accused me" - don't worry about any of that. Life is a journey, and it's good to explore and learn about different denominations. Personally, I'm rediscovering my faith, and while I was born and raised a Methodist, I can't wait to check out services from other denominations. I know this isn't really answering your question, but definitely don't feel bad about exploring and finding the right fit.

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