Infant Dedication

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There are, unfortunately, some fringe denominations within Protestantism which, oddly IMO, mimic the practices of Traditional Churches.
Not sure how I missed this the first time around. But what the heck, let's have at it now.

Do you consider the Southern Baptist Convention to a fringe denomination in the US?
 
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Ron Gurley

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A Baby Dedication is a ceremony in which believing parents, and sometimes entire families, make a commitment before the Lord to submit a child to God's will and to raise that child according to God's Word and God's ways. Many Christian churches practice Baby Dedication instead of Infant Baptism.

(NOTE: The ritual water baptism of unknowing children to wash away their "original sin" arises from false RCC doctrine)

REF: Why Some Churches Practice Baby Dedication Instead of Infant Baptism

Deuteronomy 6:4-7(NASB)
4 “Hear, O Israel! The Lord is our (TRI-UNE) God, the Lord is one! (in spiritual essence and nature)
5 You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.
6 These words, which I am commanding you today, shall be on your heart.
7 You (fathers?) shall teach them diligently to your sons
and shall talk of them when you sit in your house
and when you walk by the way
and when you lie down
and when you rise up.
diligently to your sons and shall talk of them when you sit in your house and when you walk by the way and when you lie down and when you rise up.

An Example of Baby Dedication in Scripture

Hannah, a barren woman, prayed for a child:
And she made a vow, saying,
"O LORD Almighty, if you will only look upon your servant's misery and remember me,
and not forget your servant but give her a son,
then I will give him to the LORD for all the days of his life, and no razor will ever be used on his head."
(1 Samuel 1:11, NIV)
When God answered Hannah's prayer by giving her a son, she remembered her vow, presenting Samuel to the Lord:
"As surely as you live, my lord, I am the woman who stood here beside you praying to the LORD.
I prayed for this child, and the LORD has granted me what I asked of him.
So now I give (dedicate!)him to the LORD.
For his whole life he will be given over to the LORD."
And he (Samuel) worshiped the LORD there.
(1 Samuel 1:26-28, NIV)

What is baby dedication? Is child / baby dedication biblical?

Luke 2:22 begins the account of Mary and Joseph taking Jesus to the temple after forty days in order to dedicate Him to the Lord. This was slightly more involved since it involved a (sin) sacrifice (by the parents...Mary knew she was a sinner!), but once again this ceremony did not indicate any level of salvation.

The rite is intended to be a public statement by the parents that they will train their children in the Christian faith and seek to instill that faith in them. The congregation often responds through responsive reading or some other method to affirm that they, as a church family, will also seek to encourage the parents to bring up the child in the faith. There is no implied salvation in the ceremony, and it varies from church to church.

Child / baby dedication is not one of the two ordinances—believer's baptism and the Lord’s Supper—required of Christians in the New Testament.
 
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bbbbbbb

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Not sure how I missed this the first time around. But what the heck, let's have at it now.

Do you consider the Southern Baptist Convention to a fringe denomination in the US?

The Southern Baptist Convention is not so much a unified denomination, but an amalgamation of churches which only seem to have adult baptism as their common denominator. I have personally encountered Southern Baptist churches at various ends of theological spectra, such as Calvinism (some Southern Baptist churches fully subscribe to the Sovereign Grace movement and others are so extremely Arminian as to make genuine Arminians blush with embarrassment). There is truly an amazing amount of diversity within the Southern Baptist Convention.
 
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Ron Gurley

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Non-denominational "Bible Churches" have adopted "Baby Dedication" services.

My infant #5 son received same!

He also received a believer's immersion water baptism, via Souhern Baptist Convention at ~age 12.
 
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thecolorsblend

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The Southern Baptist Convention is not so much a unified denomination, but an amalgamation of churches which only seem to have adult baptism as their common denominator. I have personally encountered Southern Baptist churches at various ends of theological spectra, such as Calvinism (some Southern Baptist churches fully subscribe to the Sovereign Grace movement and others are so extremely Arminian as to make genuine Arminians blush with embarrassment). There is truly an amazing amount of diversity within the Southern Baptist Convention.
Interesting.

But, with respect, that isn't really what I asked.

What I asked was "Do you consider the Southern Baptist Convention to a fringe denomination in the US?" Is your answer "yes"? Or is your answer "no"?
 
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Albion

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A Baby Dedication is a ceremony in which believing parents, and sometimes entire families, make a commitment before the Lord to submit a child to God's will and to raise that child according to God's Word and God's ways. Many Christian churches practice Baby Dedication instead of Infant Baptism.
...and it is completely unscriptural. It's harmless, yes, but I would think that Christians who constantly criticize harmless practices of the older Christian churches would be embarrassed to be making up a pseudo-sacrament of their own.

And this verified my point:
Non-denominational "Bible Churches" have adopted "Baby Dedication" services.

My infant #5 son received same!
At the least, I should anticipate that the explanation would focus on the parents bringing the child to church and making promises about or on behalf of the child, but instead you describe the baby as having "received" the non-sacrament himself as though it were an alternate Baptism. There is, in fact, nothing for him to have received.
 
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bbbbbbb

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Interesting.

But, with respect, that isn't really what I asked.

What I asked was "Do you consider the Southern Baptist Convention to a fringe denomination in the US?" Is your answer "yes"? Or is your answer "no"?

I don't understand your question. It is grammatically flawed. Do I consider the SBC to a fringe denomination in the US makes as much sense as my asking you if you consider the RCC in a nutshell in Europe.
 
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bbbbbbb

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...and it is completely unscriptural. It's harmless, yes, but I would think that Christians who constantly criticize harmless practices of the older Christian churches would be embarrassed to be making up a pseudo-sacrament of their own.

And this verified my point:

At the least, I should anticipate that the explanation would focus on the parents bringing the child to church and making promises about or on behalf of the child, but instead you describe the baby as having "received" the non-sacrament himself as though it were an alternate Baptism. There is, in fact, nothing for him to have received.

Excellent points. Thank you.
 
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thecolorsblend

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I don't understand your question. It is grammatically flawed. Do I consider the SBC to a fringe denomination in the US makes as much sense as my asking you if you consider the RCC in a nutshell in Europe.
Then I'd recommend reading it again. I realize your specialty is avoiding questions but you could at least try answering the question.
 
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MyGivenNameIsKeith

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A Baby Dedication is a ceremony in which believing parents, and sometimes entire families, make a commitment before the Lord to submit a child to God's will and to raise that child according to God's Word and God's ways. Many Christian churches practice Baby Dedication instead of Infant Baptism.

(NOTE: The ritual water baptism of unknowing children to wash away their "original sin" arises from false RCC doctrine)

REF: Why Some Churches Practice Baby Dedication Instead of Infant Baptism

Deuteronomy 6:4-7(NASB)
4 “Hear, O Israel! The Lord is our (TRI-UNE) God, the Lord is one! (in spiritual essence and nature)
5 You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.
6 These words, which I am commanding you today, shall be on your heart.
7 You (fathers?) shall teach them diligently to your sons
and shall talk of them when you sit in your house
and when you walk by the way
and when you lie down
and when you rise up.
diligently to your sons and shall talk of them when you sit in your house and when you walk by the way and when you lie down and when you rise up.

An Example of Baby Dedication in Scripture

Hannah, a barren woman, prayed for a child:
And she made a vow, saying,
"O LORD Almighty, if you will only look upon your servant's misery and remember me,
and not forget your servant but give her a son,
then I will give him to the LORD for all the days of his life, and no razor will ever be used on his head."
(1 Samuel 1:11, NIV)
When God answered Hannah's prayer by giving her a son, she remembered her vow, presenting Samuel to the Lord:
"As surely as you live, my lord, I am the woman who stood here beside you praying to the LORD.
I prayed for this child, and the LORD has granted me what I asked of him.
So now I give (dedicate!)him to the LORD.
For his whole life he will be given over to the LORD."
And he (Samuel) worshiped the LORD there.
(1 Samuel 1:26-28, NIV)

What is baby dedication? Is child / baby dedication biblical?

Luke 2:22 begins the account of Mary and Joseph taking Jesus to the temple after forty days in order to dedicate Him to the Lord. This was slightly more involved since it involved a (sin) sacrifice (by the parents...Mary knew she was a sinner!), but once again this ceremony did not indicate any level of salvation.

The rite is intended to be a public statement by the parents that they will train their children in the Christian faith and seek to instill that faith in them. The congregation often responds through responsive reading or some other method to affirm that they, as a church family, will also seek to encourage the parents to bring up the child in the faith. There is no implied salvation in the ceremony, and it varies from church to church.

Child / baby dedication is not one of the two ordinances—believer's baptism and the Lord’s Supper—required of Christians in the New Testament.
The reference to Luke 2:22 is according to the covenant between God and Israel for the firstborn male, in that he be circumcised.
Mary and Joseph went to temple to present him as a sacrifice according to the law of Leviticus 12; (which you see fulfilled in Luke 2:24, Leviticus 12:6,12:8 )and the length of time it took was accordingly, as she needed to be declared clean or unclean according to the purification of herself. [subnote in my bible commentary calls it the "law of motherhood"
Hannah in her dedication of Samuel, (also a voluntary one I may add), fulfilled the dedication to temple service as Samuel was a Levite. According to 1 Samuel 1:22, this reflects he is presented for service when he has been weaned, about 3 years or so, not 40 days.
Jesus was not a Levite. He was of the tribe of Judah.
The "rite" as you mentioned, has nothing to do with the parents raising them. That just stems from people not reading their Bible and "trying to be good people". It makes my head hurt trying to explain how many different ways Jesus fulfilled all these different things because he is of the order of Melchisedech, and is the high priest, thus fulfilling a Levite priest, and at the same time, not because he is of Judah....
But I digress, dedicating babies and stuff is pushing the envelope. It's like no one ever takes to heart the writings of the New Testament, when Paul speaks of non-circumcision, and how people are still saved by the blood shed on the cross and not through....whatever this nonsense has grown to be. This is exactly the kind of things that Israel ran into in the past, when they ran after other Gods like Molech...making babies and children pass through the fire...etc. THINK about what it really is that you are doing. YOU ARE PRETENDING TO SACRIFICE A BABY.
Read your bible more thoroughly, that's all I'm saying.
 
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bbbbbbb

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Then I'd recommend reading it again. I realize your specialty is avoiding questions but you could at least try answering the question.

I will give you one last shot at posing a coherent question. Apparently English was not a significant course in your education.

Exactly how is anything or anyone "to a fringe denomination".

You are apparently missing a verb. Is the question actually "Do you consider the Southern Baptist Convention to be unrelated to a fringe denomination in the US?"

In that case my answer is yes.
 
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Tangible

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In the Old Testament, they had circumcision. Available only to males, it didn't save anyone, and at the time, was a symbol of what should happen in the heart - more a symbol for the people and parents, and to the baby only later when he could understand. This one is fulfilled in Christ, so is not required for believers anymore.
Are you saying that Jesus' circumcision was only symbolic? Is Jesus' perfect obedience to the Law on our behalf really actual or only symbolic? Can a symbolic act actually fulfill the Law?

In the New Testament, we received baptism, this time for both males and females, but again, not saving anyone of itself, and a symbol of what should take place in our hearts - being immersed in Christ.
I guess that depends on your definition of baptism. I agree that the mere human act of applying water and saying some words cannot save anyone. But if God chooses to work through the water and the word to save, can he not do so? Is it we who inwardly circumcise our hearts? Is it we who unite with the death and resurrection of Christ? We cannot do these things, but God working through simple water with the Word as he has promised in scripture to do can certainly actually accomplish all these things and more through the power of his Word.

Some agree with believer's baptism, others with baptizing all the members of the believer's household, and both probably have some scriptural support. But as baptism (immersion) of babies can be dangerous, christening or sprinkling became the practice (not supported in scripture to my knowledge).
A Law view of baptism will look for law-centered answers to the question of how baptism should be performed. A Gospel-centered view of baptism looks not at requirements and processes but simply at the fact that God has promised to act to save sinners through the application of water with the Word, as clearly stated in scripture.

Those who don't believe scripture supports sprinkling in place of baptism may practice dedication, as it removes what is considered an unnecessary tradition (i.e. the sprinkling), and involves a commitment from the parents and congregation for the upbringing of the child, and seeks God's assistance in the process. While the dedication tradition may have weak scriptural support, the praying and commitment to disciple the child do not.
So why deprive your child of the benefits God gives to the baptized in favor of performing some man-made ceremony which even those participating in do not believe actually accomplishes anything spiritually real?

Yes, we should all be in constant, fervent prayer for our children, for their growth in faith and for their safety and wellbeing. Additionally, if it was in your power to give them a gift of immeasurable spiritual worth according to the clear promise of God, why would you withhold it from them?
 
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bbbbbbb

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Are you saying that Jesus' circumcision was only symbolic? Is Jesus' perfect obedience to the Law on our behalf really actual or only symbolic? Can a symbolic act actually fulfill the Law?

I guess that depends on your definition of baptism. I agree that the mere human act of applying water and saying some words cannot save anyone. But if God chooses to work through the water and the word to save, can he not do so? Is it we who inwardly circumcise our hearts? Is it we who unite with the death and resurrection of Christ? We cannot do these things, but God working through simple water with the Word as he has promised in scripture to do can certainly actually accomplish all these things and more through the power of his Word.

A Law view of baptism will look for law-centered answers to the question of how baptism should be performed. A Gospel-centered view of baptism looks not at requirements and processes but simply at the fact that God has promised to act to save sinners through the application of water with the Word, as clearly stated in scripture.

So why deprive your child of the benefits God gives to the baptized in favor of performing some man-made ceremony which even those participating in do not believe actually accomplishes anything spiritually real?

Yes, we should all be in constant, fervent prayer for our children, for their growth in faith and for their safety and wellbeing. Additionally, if it was in your power to give them a gift of immeasurable spiritual worth according to the clear promise of God, why would you withhold it from them?

So, what did Jesus' circumcision accomplish for Him? Did it remove the stain of Adam's sin from Him? Did it make Him any more God than He had been at birth? Did it prove to God that He was obedient?
 
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Tangible

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So, what did Jesus' circumcision accomplish for Him?
It marked him as a descendant of Abraham and an heir of the promises God made to him. It united him with God's chosen people, so that ultimately he would unite all of God's chosen people from all nations in himself.
Did it remove the stain of Adam's sin from Him?
As part of the Great Exchange, Christ who had no sin was circumcised into our sinful flesh, under the law, so that in Christ our flesh would be circumcised unto God through the law of grace.

2 Corinthians 5:21
For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

Jesus was circumcised for the precisely same reason that he was baptized by St John the Baptizer - in order to unite his sinless self with sinful mankind to bear our sins in his body to death on the cross, in order to fulfill all righteousness for us, not for him.

The link between circumcision and baptism is very strong, leading St Paul to refer to Christian baptism as the circumcision of the heart, the circumcision not made by hands.

Did it make Him any more God than He had been at birth?
Is God circumcised? Circumcision was the sign and seal of the Abrahamic covenant. It didn't make him more God but it did make him more Israel, and more THAN Israel, as the ultimate and true heir of the promises of God.

Did it prove to God that He was obedient?
Yes, this was also part of the reason. It was part of his perfect active obedience to the law of God, both proving and preserving his unique status as the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.

These are really good questions, @bbbbbbb. Thanks for making me stop and think. Here are some of the other passages I looked at to address them. Also see here: SUMMA THEOLOGIAE: Christ's circumcision, and of the other legal observances accomplished in regard to the child Christ (Tertia Pars, Q. 37) for an interesting exposition.

Matthew 5:17-20
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Galatians 4:4-7
But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons. And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” So you are no longer a slave, but a son, and if a son, then an heir through God.

Colossians 2:8-15
See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ. For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority. In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead. And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him.

Romans 2:25-29
For circumcision indeed is of value if you obey the law, but if you break the law, your circumcision becomes uncircumcision. So, if a man who is uncircumcised keeps the precepts of the law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? Then he who is physically uncircumcised but keeps the law will condemn you who have the written code and circumcision but break the law. For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God.

Romans 5:19
For as by the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man’s obedience the many will be made righteous.

Hebrews 5:5-10
So also Christ did not exalt himself to be made a high priest, but was appointed by him who said to him,

“You are my Son,
today I have begotten you”;

as he says also in another place,

“You are a priest forever,
after the order of Melchizedek.”

In the days of his flesh, Jesus offered up prayers and supplications, with loud cries and tears, to him who was able to save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverence. Although he was a son, he learned obedience through what he suffered. And being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him, being designated by God a high priest after the order of Melchizedek.
 
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Even though I agree with those here who are critical of infant dedication, what I would say, though, is that this kind of thing demonstrates that even when we think we have rejected the historical liturgical praxes of historical Christianity and that we have no use for them, it is still something that we yearn for. We feel that vacuum and know that we need to fill it with something.

People who have rejected the ancient forms still are often seeking them, even if only subconsciously.
 
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If they could initiate infants into the Old Testament Covenant Church of Israel via circumciscion, they could certainly initiate Christians into the New Covenant Church---the New Israel by baptism. 'Dedication' makes no sense. If baptism is as Scripture says "now saves you" and is for 'the remission of sin' as St Peter says in Acts, why not enjoin a baby unto the Body of Christ? There isn't any reason that one can see.
 
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I suppose that I'll never get the whole 'baptism is symbolic' bit, yet apparently something that Christ commands, if it doesn't do anything, then it's pointless. Yet, apparently for some they still practise it....? I think I'll stick with the Apostle Peter:
"Repent, Peter said to them, and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ, to have your sins forgiven; then you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."
[Acts Of Apostles 2:38]
 
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bbbbbbb

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If they could initiate infants into the Old Testament Covenant Church of Israel via circumciscion, they could certainly initiate Christians into the New Covenant Church---the New Israel by baptism. 'Dedication' makes no sense. If baptism is as Scripture says "now saves you" and is for 'the remission of sin' as St Peter says in Acts, why not enjoin a baby unto the Body of Christ? There isn't any reason that I can see.

Actually, if they could initiate female infants into the Old Testament Covenant Church of Israel (a specious appellation if ever there was one) without circumcision, they could certainly initiate female Christians into the New Covenant Church - the New Israel (a theological construct) without circumcision or baptism or any other rite.
 
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1. the RCC doctrine of "original sin" is false.
2. the RCC tradition of ritual water baptism is not supported by Scripture and
ritual water baptism is not a condition of salvation
3. RCC does not recognize "spiritual baptism"
4. The Bible has many examples of infant dedication.

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/baptism.8010814/
 
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1 Samuel 1:20, 27-28
20 It came about in due time, after Hannah had conceived, that she gave birth to a son;
and she named him Samuel, saying, “Because I have asked him of the Lord.”...
27 For this boy I prayed, and the Lord has given me my petition which I asked of Him.
28 So I have also dedicated him to the Lord;
as long as he lives he is dedicated to the Lord.”
And he worshiped the Lord there.
 
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