Why I fear Church

TuxAme

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Know that you are welcome. You aren't free to act on any impulses you may have (none of us are), but remember the words of Jesus, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick; I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.”

You are no more "sick" than anyone else in the pews, and you're no better. Don't let anyone try to convince you that you are simultaneously worse than them and yet not "worthy" to "be seen by the physician".
 
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Halbhh

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I am kind of scared to go to church. I struggle with same-sex attraction and I know that homosexuality is sin. I do not live the lifestyle but I still struggle with lust, which the Bible calls adultery and idolatry. My biggest fear is that the people inside the church will not be very kind to me. I see so many threads of people fighting about homosexuality and most people don't understand the struggles. I know that same-sex attraction is very unnatural and it makes people uncomfortable.

You have many people who are very uncomfortable with homosexuals in the church, but then those of us who want to obey God and be Christians who struggled with the desire see all the fighting and quarreling that the church is having about homosexuality. And some people seem very unmerciful. Yeah, they are your speaking the truth about Sin but they seem very nasty about it. I don't know. It makes me not want to go to church. Not because I am afraid of hearing the truth because I already know the truth and I know what scripture says about it, but because people seem to speak the truth without love.

The question is am I wrong about that?

Say that you have a professor who is very intelligent. He is your instructor and he will be your instructor for the rest of the school year. When you do your school work, you want to know if you are doing it right or if you are getting it wrong. But every time he corrects your mistakes he makes you feel like a complete stupid. You want to know what you're doing wrong but you just hate the way that he is correcting your mistakes.

Will it be better to be homeschooled and teach yourself or to continue to be taught by this guy that makes you feel stupid every time he corrects correct your mistakes, even though you are learning from him?

That's the way it seems sometimes with Christians. They do speak the truth about Sin but sometimes they just don't seem very loving about it.

I am not going around saying they are all so judgemental. We are all judgemental in many ways. I just sometimes wish that people could be less harsh in their judgments.

I don't know. Maybe I am completely in the wrong. I don't know what advice you can give me to be perfectly honest.

I just don't want to go to church and make people uncomfortable. But I also don't want to go to church and feel condemned.

Will God still accept me if I just stay at home and worship him?

Unmerciful people are not following Christ.

You can simply forgive them, but you don't have to believe in whatever it is they have made up as their own thing to obey instead of Christ.

Also, I think it will aid us every time to learn more clearly what is sin and what is not. I mean we all have to learn those over time.

We need to confess for what we are doing, the actual wrong. Not other things mistakenly (see why below).

Lust is not always adultery. Lust is not always idolatry. Those individual sins need their own individual repentance, and it needs to be genuine, and so we need to know if we actually did them!

Adultery when there is lasting (not momentary) attraction that is indulged in (including in the heart) and at least one of the people involved is married and the other person is not their spouse.

If neither person in the affair is married, it's not adultery. It can still be wrong, but it's then another sin, like lust and/or fornication. Adultery is often these but it's always also something more (of serious significance) -- betrayal of a person's reliance on you from their heart!

Next, idolatry is when we make anything more important to ourselves than God. That can be a person.

Sometimes lust can be that way, but often is not.

So, lust is not adultery, unless one of the people is married. Lust is not idolatry unless you make it more important inside your focus and valuing than God.

Lust is a wrong too, in that it treats a person without love.

If there is love, and neither is married, and it's real love, then we call it 'desire' because there is love. Lust is like a negation of love, not a train car with love.

Also, the sin called 'sodomy' is an action -- anal sexual intercourse -- not a vague and mere temperament thing like 'being gay'.

Man/woman couples can do this same wrong!

Another sin -- many wrongly judge, judge without established fact, that 'gay' people must be all doing sodomy intercourse. That judging is a sin too, because it judges on mere appearances, thus wrongly (John 7:24).

So, as we can see, there are a lot of different distinct sins around all of this stuff. But you, my dear fellow, are not likely doing many of them!

We need to confess and repent our actual sins, with actual remorse, and it helps to avoid confusion, because for one thing, you won't really feel true remorse for doing such a thing as "adultery", which is a profound betrayal of another person! unless you are actually doing it!

Remorse, guilt, helps us repent. We each need to feel the authentic remorse for our actual wrongs. We need to confess our real wrongs, each of us, directly to God, with real remorse, and turn from those wrongs, not wanting to continue them.

When we do confess to Him, with contrition, He forgives!

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness." (1 John 1:9)

Praise the Lord for this amazing Grace!

--------
How will you know if you are in a good church?

You should hear the Good News about Christ, and hear his words to us, and you should experience this:

34“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

.
 
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Introverted1293

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Why is struggles with mental illness or one’s sexual attraction anyone else in church’s business but your own? I’d never disclose personal things in church to people.

Yeah, I guess you're right.
 
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Introverted1293

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We can reject people; that is fine, but we must use discernment and not make our decisions based on protecting our ego. For example, I reject meeting with people who gather for the purpose of abusing drugs. Meeting with them would prove harmful to my soul. Not only that, but (1) did God call me to join their meetings? (2) Do the Holy Scriptures support my decision as a wise and good one? (3) Have I sought godly counsel from other wise Christians? (4) Have I prayed extensively (3 times is a good rule of thumb since this is what Jesus did in the garden of Gethsemene)? (5) Are the reasons for me joining or not joining a particular community group based on whether or not I believe it would glorify God, or are my reasons selfish and ego-driven? There are most likely other questions we can ask ourselves.

If you show up at a Church and people treat you like garbage, or you simply feel too distressed to remain there, then it seems reasonable to attempt finding another Church. If you exhaust all of your options, then the next reasonable decision would be to be a Church hermit (one who doesn't attend Church services). With regards to this last option, it would be shocking to encounter this sort of situation, in my opinion.

But let me stop talking because I'm an idiot. Sorry for causing confusion.

You didn't cause confusion. I just process information very slowly. I understand now what you are saying. And I get it.
 
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Introverted1293

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I think the very question you raise speaks much. The question I asked you, if you were born again – is indicative of how I will answer.

Jesus told Nicodemus that in order for him to see the Kingdom of God he must first be born from above – by the Spirit; John 3:3. This is not a suggestion folks, this is the truth coming from Jesus Christ. I speak not to the subject of homosexuality, inclusiveness, celibacy, or where to suggest one goes so they do not feel judged. The question is; ARE YOU BORN AGAIN? To say you don’t know – I will say how can this be? Either you are, or you are not. God did not make this so that it be a grey, unknown mystery! For He says;

“For I will take you from among the nations, gather you out of all countries, and bring you into your own land. 25 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.” Ezekiel 36:24-27

1 John 5:1 says

“Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him” – to believe is more than a profession, it is to live what/who you believe.

You are promised new life when you are born of the Spirit – that no longer contends with your old life – and flesh. So, when you include homosexuality in your definition of yourself and your thoughts, struggles etc. you are not living the life of one who is born again. Jesus told this to one who needed a shift in their thinking – and he did not take kindly to what he said was his problem see Matt 19: 16-24 This man did all the outward things that he knew to be good, but Jesus looks to our heart and calls us to give up what is most precious to us and then come and follow Him.

1 John 3:4-6 is one of many measuring tools in scripture that would indicate if you are born again – ‘Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.’

1John 3:9 - Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God –

When you are born again, you cannot live a lifestyle contrary to God. You classify yourself as being one thing – a new creation in Christ.

Again, this is about identity, not if you identify as a homosexual, but do you identify as being born again. I would encourage you- in your fear of judgement – for it is a possible sign that the Holy Spirit is working – to convict. No one can inherit the Kingdom of God, unless they repent of sin – the old nature. Then they are able to enter in, for they cannot bring their flesh into what is of Spirit. This is what you are wanting. You are wanting to be accommodated in your state of sin dilemma. I will add that you are not the only one, unfortunately most of what is comprised in the churches are those who strive for this in myriad of mindsets and sin. The church is not meant to be so. For it is the very body of Christ and we each come together in His Spirit to encourage, worship, edify, admonish and share His Life with each other – and this is all done in love. Its not a place for the unregenerate. They can come, but they should not expect to be accommodated.

When you are born again, your life is moving onward and upward, away from the things of this world and our flesh. It is constantly aware of sin, and constantly turning from and repenting from what we are being shown by the Holy Spirit – this is called sanctification. God by his Spirit does this in us, as we participate with him – for it is a 2 way street. We don’t just collect His life, of forgiveness to go on to living as we have always lived! But instead it is the continual of denying oneself, and the picking up our cross and following Him – I WILL REPEAT WE CANNOT TAKE OUR FLESH ALONG WITH US – it must die in order that we may live with Him. What we give up, far outweighs what He gives us in return – now in our present life on earth and what we have to look forward to.

I understand
 
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Introverted1293

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You can bet your bottom dollar that most, if not all, in the Church have some issues they don't want to bring out into the general congregation, if to anyone. We are told to confess our sins to one another, but that is meant for those who are truly walking obediently with the Lord. Many in Church are just going there for social reasons, sometimes even for financial contacts, and not a few others may be just pretend Christians. If the Father leads you to share, privately, with anyone, great. Otherwise, be private.

Thank you very much. I definitely will keep it private at church.
 
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Introverted1293

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Know that you are welcome. You aren't free to act on any impulses you may have (none of us are), but remember the words of Jesus, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick; I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.”

You are no more "sick" than anyone else in the pews, and you're no better. Don't let anyone try to convince you that you are simultaneously worse than them and yet not "worthy" to "be seen by the physician".

This is true. Thank you for your encouragement.
 
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Introverted1293

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Unmerciful people are not following Christ.

You can simply forgive them, but you don't have to believe in whatever it is they have made up as their own thing to obey instead of Christ.

Also, I think it will aid us every time to learn more clearly what is sin and what is not. I mean we all have to learn those over time.

We need to confess for what we are doing, the actual wrong. Not other things mistakenly (see why below).

Lust is not always adultery. Lust is not always idolatry. Those individual sins need their own individual repentance, and it needs to be genuine, and so we need to know if we actually did them!

Adultery when there is lasting (not momentary) attraction that is indulged in (including in the heart) and at least one of the people involved is married and the other person is not their spouse.

If neither person in the affair is married, it's not adultery. It can still be wrong, but it's then another sin, like lust and/or fornication. Adultery is often these but it's always also something more (of serious significance) -- betrayal of a person's reliance on you from their heart!

Next, idolatry is when we make anything more important to ourselves than God. That can be a person.

Sometimes lust can be that way, but often is not.

So, lust is not adultery, unless one of the people is married. Lust is not idolatry unless you make it more important inside your focus and valuing than God.

Lust is a wrong too, in that it treats a person without love.

If there is love, and neither is married, and it's real love, then we call it 'desire' because there is love. Lust is like a negation of love, not a train car with love.

Also, the sin called 'sodomy' is an action -- anal sexual intercourse -- not a vague and mere temperament thing like 'being gay'.

Man/woman couples can do this same wrong!

Another sin -- many wrongly judge, judge without established fact, that 'gay' people must be all doing sodomy intercourse. That judging is a sin too, because it judges on mere appearances, thus wrongly (John 7:24).

So, as we can see, there are a lot of different distinct sins around all of this stuff. But you, my dear fellow, are not likely doing many of them!

We need to confess and repent our actual sins, with actual remorse, and it helps to avoid confusion, because for one thing, you won't really feel true remorse for doing such a thing as "adultery", which is a profound betrayal of another person! unless you are actually doing it!

Remorse, guilt, helps us repent. We each need to feel the authentic remorse for our actual wrongs. We need to confess our real wrongs, each of us, directly to God, with real remorse, and turn from those wrongs, not wanting to continue them.

When we do confess to Him, with contrition, He forgives!

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness." (1 John 1:9)

Praise the Lord for this amazing Grace!

--------
How will you know if you are in a good church?

You should hear the Good News about Christ, and hear his words to us, and you should experience this:

34“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

.

That was very informative and very encouraging at the same time. Thank you very much.
 
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Sabertooth

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I definitely will keep it private at church.
That is why I recommended churches that emphasize healing & deliverance. They tend to be discreet about such matters. You will likely find someone that you can confide in there.
 
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Introverted1293

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That is why I recommended churches that emphasize healing & deliverance. They tend to be discreet about such matters. You will likely find someone that you can confide in there.

Okay

I will definitely look for a church that emphasizes healing and deliverance. That actually sounds like a very good idea. :)
 
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tdidymas

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One more thing I thought of that I sometimes tell people: Most people at church are there because they need to be there. Think about that one.

In other words:
hypocrites are there because they need to learn sincerity
abusers are there because they need to learn kindness
fear mongers are there because they need to learn to love
etc. etc.

We are there to learn how to love others who can't love us back.
TD:)
 
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Introverted1293

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One more thing I thought of that I sometimes tell people: Most people at church are there because they need to be there. Think about that one.

In other words:
hypocrites are there because they need to learn sincerity
abusers are there because they need to learn kindness
fear mongers are there because they need to learn to love
etc. etc.

We are there to learn how to love others who can't love us back.
TD:)

That actually is a good point. I never thought about that.
 
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Almost there

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I am kind of scared to go to church. I struggle with same-sex attraction and I know that homosexuality is sin. I do not live the lifestyle but I still struggle with lust, which the Bible calls adultery and idolatry. My biggest fear is that the people inside the church will not be very kind to me. I see so many threads of people fighting about homosexuality and most people don't understand the struggles. I know that same-sex attraction is very unnatural and it makes people uncomfortable.

You have many people who are very uncomfortable with homosexuals in the church, but then those of us who want to obey God and be Christians who struggled with the desire see all the fighting and quarreling that the church is having about homosexuality. And some people seem very unmerciful. Yeah, they are your speaking the truth about Sin but they seem very nasty about it. I don't know. It makes me not want to go to church. Not because I am afraid of hearing the truth because I already know the truth and I know what scripture says about it, but because people seem to speak the truth without love.

The question is am I wrong about that?

Say that you have a professor who is very intelligent. He is your instructor and he will be your instructor for the rest of the school year. When you do your school work, you want to know if you are doing it right or if you are getting it wrong. But every time he corrects your mistakes he makes you feel like a complete stupid. You want to know what you're doing wrong but you just hate the way that he is correcting your mistakes.

Will it be better to be homeschooled and teach yourself or to continue to be taught by this guy that makes you feel stupid every time he corrects correct your mistakes, even though you are learning from him?

That's the way it seems sometimes with Christians. They do speak the truth about Sin but sometimes they just don't seem very loving about it.

I am not going around saying they are all so judgemental. We are all judgemental in many ways. I just sometimes wish that people could be less harsh in their judgments.

I don't know. Maybe I am completely in the wrong. I don't know what advice you can give me to be perfectly honest.

I just don't want to go to church and make people uncomfortable. But I also don't want to go to church and feel condemned.

Will God still accept me if I just stay at home and worship him?
God have mercy on me, a sinner.

Keep in mind that the young heterosexuals have the same problem with lust that you have - just for the opposite sex. Yours comes with another facet that makes it difficult, obviously, for they have an unsinful outlet (marriage) that you do not. Think of it as the desire to kill someone that really ticks you off or treats you unfairly. It's something you would want to deal with with prayer.

The real problem is how people in the church will perceive you. And that is only a problem if you are either overtly homosexual (effeminate) or acting on your sexual preference.

We ALL have our own personal temptations with which to deal and pray about. If your homosexuality is only brought out when you bring it out, you may want to stop doing that, other than with church leaders you trust. If it is overt in the way you act, it will be more of a challenge. You will also become a test for your particular congregation regarding their exercising of Jesus Grace if they all know you are homosexual.

But we are all sinners. Homosexual acts are but one of those sins.
 
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Almost there

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FWIW, when I first became a Christian, I was in a fairly large (around 1,000 members) church that had a homosexual music director. He repented and the church allowed him to lead as long as he didn't act on his sinful nature. It's really the same thing as telling a single heterosexual the same thing regarding his relationships with members of the opposite sex. Sadly, after three warnings, he was continuing in a homosexual relationship (physical) and the church had to let him go. And if he was a heterosexual that was continuing in a physical relationship with a girlfriend he would also have been let go.

See the parallel? The problem is not your sinful nature. The problem is how you act on it, regardless of sexual identity. It's just that homosexuals do not have an outlet for their desires. But then, most desires that can ONLY lead to sin don't have a "legitimate" outlet. Heterosexual desires can lead to sin, but also have a sinless solution.
 
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Introverted1293

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FWIW, when I first became a Christian, I was in a fairly large (around 1,000 members) church that had a homosexual music director. He repented and the church allowed him to lead as long as he didn't act on his sinful nature. It's really the same thing as telling a single heterosexual the same thing regarding his relationships with members of the opposite sex. Sadly, after three warnings, he was continuing in a homosexual relationship (physical) and the church had to let him go. And if he was a heterosexual that was continuing in a physical relationship with a girlfriend he would also have been let go.

See the parallel? The problem is not your sinful nature. The problem is how you act on it, regardless of sexual identity. It's just that homosexuals do not have an outlet for their desires. But then, most desires that can ONLY lead to sin don't have a "legitimate" outlet. Heterosexual desires can lead to sin, but also have a sinless solution.

Wow

Thank you for sharing that.
 
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ethan123a

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I am kind of scared to go to church. I struggle with same-sex attraction and I know that homosexuality is sin. I do not live the lifestyle but I still struggle with lust, which the Bible calls adultery and idolatry. My biggest fear is that the people inside the church will not be very kind to me. I see so many threads of people fighting about homosexuality and most people don't understand the struggles. I know that same-sex attraction is very unnatural and it makes people uncomfortable.

You have many people who are very uncomfortable with homosexuals in the church, but then those of us who want to obey God and be Christians who struggled with the desire see all the fighting and quarreling that the church is having about homosexuality. And some people seem very unmerciful. Yeah, they are your speaking the truth about Sin but they seem very nasty about it. I don't know. It makes me not want to go to church. Not because I am afraid of hearing the truth because I already know the truth and I know what scripture says about it, but because people seem to speak the truth without love.

The question is am I wrong about that?

Say that you have a professor who is very intelligent. He is your instructor and he will be your instructor for the rest of the school year. When you do your school work, you want to know if you are doing it right or if you are getting it wrong. But every time he corrects your mistakes he makes you feel like a complete stupid. You want to know what you're doing wrong but you just hate the way that he is correcting your mistakes.

Will it be better to be homeschooled and teach yourself or to continue to be taught by this guy that makes you feel stupid every time he corrects correct your mistakes, even though you are learning from him?

That's the way it seems sometimes with Christians. They do speak the truth about Sin but sometimes they just don't seem very loving about it.

I am not going around saying they are all so judgemental. We are all judgemental in many ways. I just sometimes wish that people could be less harsh in their judgments.

I don't know. Maybe I am completely in the wrong. I don't know what advice you can give me to be perfectly honest.

I just don't want to go to church and make people uncomfortable. But I also don't want to go to church and feel condemned.

Will God still accept me if I just stay at home and worship him?
Wow what a challenging question. I'll try to answer it though ;). The Lord God loves you. If you go to church for Jesus then others and what they think may not seem as significant as your personal relationship with God. If people bother you at one church, try going to another if you like. Going to Church is offered as a choice whether you choose to go or not. If you desire to go then remember that it relates to your personal relationship with God.
I suggest sitting in on a Catholic service one of these future days. Catholics can be friendly ;).
 
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Vicomte13

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Matthew 5:27-28
Yep, masturbation is adultery. So, either God forgives this habitual and universal sin, or every biologically intact normal male who ever lived except for Jesus is roasting in hell and the religion is a useless and expensive waste of time. Old men stop, whether they are religious or not, because their testosterone dries up and they cease to have the drive. But young men? All doomed unless God forgives. Which he promised to do for everyone who forgives others.
The most wretched men of all are Christians who attempt to hold the universal sin of masturbation against other men. They are doubly damned, because in addition to being unforgiving (and therefore I forgiven by God - just as God promised) , they are also damned for being habitual liars. Show me the biologically and psychologically normal, unmarried 20-something male who claims to never touch or have sex with another (girl or boy) - who claims to be completely chaste without exception, and I will show you a bald faced liar. At best only one such specimen ever existed, and he’s not walking around among us.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Yep, masturbation is adultery. So, either God forgives this habitual and universal sin, or every biologically intact normal male who ever lived except for Jesus is roasting in hell and the religion is a useless and expensive waste of time. Old men stop, whether they are religious or not, because their testosterone dries up and they cease to have the drive. But young men? All doomed unless God forgives. Which he promised to do for everyone who forgives others.
The most wretched men of all are Christians who attempt to hold the universal sin of masturbation against other men. They are doubly damned, because in addition to being unforgiving (and therefore I forgiven by God - just as God promised) , they are also damned for being habitual liars. Show me the biologically and psychologically normal, unmarried 20-something male who claims to never touch or have sex with another (girl or boy) - who claims to be completely chaste without exception, and I will show you a bald faced liar. At best only one such specimen ever existed, and he’s not walking around among us.

You cant teach it is normal and OK. Yes there is forgiveness. Yeshua said, go and sin no more.
 
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ToBeLoved

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You cant teach it is normal and OK. Yes there is forgiveness. Yeshua said, go and sin no more.
Why don’t you two start a new thread. This is the OP’s thread.

While masturbation is soooo interesting, the OP needs advice.
 
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