If there is "no evidence" for evolution...

Greg Merrill

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Sure seems like it. Creationists very frequently will do this - call evolution a 'religion'. It is pretty obviously a desperate ploy.


Really? So what proper definition of 'secular humanism' makes it a religion?

re·li·gion
[rəˈlijən]
NOUN

1 the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods:
"ideas about the relationship between science and religion"
synonyms: faith · belief · worship · creed · sect · church · cult · denomination
2. a particular system of faith and worship:
"the world's great religions"
3. a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance:
"consumerism is the new religion"




Defensive? LOL! I am not the one trying to re-define something so as to make it easier to argue against.

But thanks for the projective and predictable response.



You mean you are trying to spread what YOU think is the truth.

Let's be honest.

Quoting You:
"Really? So what proper definition of 'secular humanism' makes it a religion?"
You answer this yourself with the following quote.

2. a particular system of faith and worship:
"the world's great religions"
3. a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance:
"consumerism is the new religion"

BTW Books on World Religions are usually written by people that do not follow what they are writing about as members of those religions and I have found them to be incorrect on how they describe Christianity.
 
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PsychoSarah

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"Because Jesus said so" You reject Jesus? John 12:48.
Lots of people have claimed to be gods, be able to speak to gods, etc. Evidence never supports those claims. To be extremely blunt, Jesus never wrote anything in the bible himself, so how do you know people didn't edit his words or make errors in copying them down?
 
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Greg Merrill

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LOL! Who told you that - Pastor John?

I see in your vast scientific education, you never learned what "theory" means in science....
That is because I don't put my trust in what you call "science" which has been riddle with errors by fallible scientists.
 
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PsychoSarah

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Quoting You:
"Really? So what proper definition of 'secular humanism' makes it a religion?"
You answer this yourself with the following quote.

2. a particular system of faith and worship:
"the world's great religions"
3. a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance:
"consumerism is the new religion"

BTW Books on World Religions are usually written by people that do not follow what they are writing about as members of those religions and I have found them to be incorrect on how they describe Christianity.
-_- secular humanism doesn't worship anything, and it doesn't even assert great importance in its singular claim, which is that people are capable of being moral and self-fulfilled without being theists. And plenty of atheists have demonstrated that to be true.
 
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Greg Merrill

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They thought the Greek gods were myths, then they discovered Troy.

Fire-breathing dinosaurs? Bombadier-beetle? What on earth are you talking about?
Google it.
 
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Greg Merrill

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Do you have any facts yourself? All I've seen so far is a shallow and theologically unsatisfying interpretation of the stories in Genesis.
Google "The Bible and Archaeology" for starters. Do I have any facts? They are almost unlimited in number. Facts and evidence. Hebrews 11:1.
 
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PsychoSarah

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Google it.
I googled the bible verses that mention dragons, and any that offer input on physical descriptions describe them as serpents. Those beetles are not serpent-like in the slightest. Plus, with Jeremiah 51:34 saying “he has swallowed me up like a dragon…” it is very apparent that the creature being spoken of was large.
 
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bhsmte

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That is because I don't put my trust in what you call "science" which has been riddle with errors by fallible scientists.

Every hour of every day, you enjoy the benefits of what science has discovered, with it's methods. Yet, you don't trust any of these daily benefits, but still enjoy them.
 
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Greg Merrill

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No, I don't think I am. As I have mentioned, I have been doing this for more than 20 years. Christian fundamentalists generally show up on these forums and first they regurgitate the nonsense they're recently read on their favorite creationist website. Then, people with relevant scientific knowledge question their claims. Sometimes, the creationist will double-down and refuse to budge, then play martyr. Sometimes, they will realize that they are in over their heads, and pull out the old 'the fool hath...' verse. It is a tactic, whether it is a conscious act or an instinctual one I do not know.

It is almost always due to lack of information, resources, etc. Or more specifically, they are shown that their resources are phonies, etc.



I have a very good answer - if God is real, then He is a childish bloodthirsty thug. More likely, it was just an act of barbarism of His 'chosen people' who then wrote that God said to do it, and since people in ancient times were superstitious and didn't know much about the world, believed them. And people alive today, in a time where the acts in Hosea should be seen as disgusting and horrific and evidence that the bible is NOT a good source of moral teaching, instead we see evangelicals making excuses and dodging.

But no, you have Truth and all that...

This is one of the reasons that I recently abandoned religion altogether.
Just as God exists, Satan exists, and just as men have used false propaganda to try to discredit the leaders and cause of their enemies, so Satan does this to mankind, trying to get man to see God in the bad light Satan creates of God. Many are deceived, and the whole world will eventually be deceived. The teaching of the false theory of Evolution is a great tool Satan uses that the world has bought into in their rebellion against the righteous God.
Certain people groups had become so wicked (offering their own children to be sacrifice alive to a false god by burning them alive, as just one of many examples) that God directed Israel to remove them all, just as surgeon would try to remove a spreading cancer before it kills the patient.
 
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Greg Merrill

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Of course...



Or, maybe there are people that were not pastors, and were not brainwashed into the cult-like beliefs of biblical literalist, who took the time to study and learn and do real research, and discovered that the bible tales in Genesis cannot possibly be literally true? Is that a possibility?

Tell you what - instead of this back and forth about truth and true science and unicorns and such, how about you dazzle us with your TRUE SCIENCE? Show us some facts and evidence that support a young earth and post-flood hyperspeciation? Tell us the mechanisms that allow for this, tell us how an olive tree survived being submerged in brackish water for a year, and so on?

With TRUE FACTS and SCIENCE,m and no miracle escape-clauses, etc.
Sure. One example of many. Compare the explanation of how evolutionists say the Grand Canyon was formed to the results left by the volcanic eruption of Mt. St. Helens in 1980. What evolutionist say took millions of years for one river to cut out SEVERAL canyons and leave layers of sediment, the volcano in Washington State did in 17 seconds in some aspects, and in two weeks in other aspects, not millions of years. Google this.
 
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Greg Merrill

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Gee, golly, that was because nobody had seen one until then. Imagine that...



Of course people are crying that he won - look at the damage to the country!
Trump fan?

Riddle me this - how can a Christian support a serial adulterer, thrice-married worshipper of money?

Never mind - not a topic for this forum.
So you admit, that just because scientists hadn't seen a coelacanth it is alright for them to say they are extinct and only lived millions of years ago. How many other things have they not seen and thus jumped to the wrong conclusion, or at least studied for years and still came to the wrong conclusion. Read Job 38-40.
 
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Greg Merrill

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Your facts are trivially irrelevant.

Regarding the unsinkable Titanic, I saw polling data the other day that shows that Christianity is a failing religion in the USA - the number of young people that identify as Christian (especially evangelical Christian) has dropped to well below similar data from previous years. The number of people identifying with no religion is rising, also among young people.
Looks like you are a dying breed, sir.
That is true. Even Jesus said in Luke 18:8b "Nevertheless when the Son of man comes will there be faith in the earth." He was aware of the truth. of what you posted here a long time ago, as well as the truths found in Revelation 13:3,4 and Revelation 20:10-15.
 
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Greg Merrill

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I really don't think you fully understand what you're talking about in this situation.
When people say 'unicorn', they mean a horse with a horn on the head. Not a narwhal or a rhino. They mean a horse with a horn on it's head.
When people say 'dragon's, they mean a flying/non-flying lizard of immense size that can breath fire. Not a beetle that shoots a form of acid out of it. They mean a giant lizard that breaths fire.
Just because people get the terminology of the Bible (unicorn, dragon) mixed up with Disney, doesn't mean I don't know what I am talking about. This just goes to show that some people don't rightly understand the Bible.
 
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Speedwell

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BTW Books on World Religions are usually written by people that do not follow what they are writing about as members of those religions and I have found them to be incorrect on how they describe Christianity.
That's interesting. Can you name any in particular? And how would you know? You don't seem particularly well informed about Christians outside your own sect.
 
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Greg Merrill

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A book of stories said so, which by the way, was penned by anonymous authors.

You can still believe it though, knock yourself out.
Either side could use these quotes.
A book of stories, penned by anonymous authors. You have believed a malicious, selfish, evil, deceptive lie.
It is a lie many want to believe. Yes, we all have our choice to follow what we want, and why we want to. We will all have to live with the consequences. I bet I am more blessed, happy, and content with believing the Bible to be the Word of God, than if I believed I came into being by chance, accident, and have no future after death. Talk about "knocking yourself out". Who is doing that? I understand your meaning, but use it now as a fight who accidentally hits himself and knocks himself out.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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Just because people get the terminology of the Bible (unicorn, dragon) mixed up with Disney, doesn't mean I don't know what I am talking about. This just goes to show that some people don't rightly understand the Bible.

Yeah, except that the terminology used in the Bible is incredibly unclear about certain things, and also, Disney does not have the market on the descriptions of dragons and unicorns since art of those creatures goes back all the way to the Early Medieval Ages.
Heck, my own country has a dragon as it's national emblem since 829 AD and we sure as heck aren't affiliated with Disney.
wales_welsh_dragon_flag.jpg

The only thing this shows is that you overestimate your own intelligence about the Bible. Classic example of the Dunning-Kruger effect.
 
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bhsmte

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Either side could use these quotes.
A book of stories, penned by anonymous authors. You have believed a malicious, selfish, evil, deceptive lie.
It is a lie many want to believe. Yes, we all have our choice to follow what we want, and why we want to. We will all have to live with the consequences. I bet I am more blessed, happy, and content with believing the Bible to be the Word of God, than if I believed I came into being by chance, accident, and have no future after death. Talk about "knocking yourself out". Who is doing that? I understand your meaning, but use it now as a fight who accidentally hits himself and knocks himself out.

Hey, when you make claims, I would expect people to ask you to support them. This is the science portion of the forum and people will ask you to provide something other than personal opinion, to support your position.

Let me ask you this; is it at all possible, you could be wrong about your beliefs, or are you infallible in this regard?
 
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Greg Merrill

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Lots of people have claimed to be gods, be able to speak to gods, etc. Evidence never supports those claims. To be extremely blunt, Jesus never wrote anything in the bible himself, so how do you know people didn't edit his words or make errors in copying them down?
A very good question. Because God came upon the writers in such a way as to use their personalities, vocabulary, background, etc., but lead them to write in such a way that they made no mistakes, contradictions, or anything else that would be wrong (2 Timothy 3:16,17; Psalms 12:6,7 KJV). The original copyists of Scripture had several strict rules they went by in order to alleviate this problem you suggest. We have over 15,000 of those copies in which to compare to one another in order to assure ourselves what the original said.
 
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Greg Merrill

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I googled the bible verses that mention dragons, and any that offer input on physical descriptions describe them as serpents. Those beetles are not serpent-like in the slightest. Plus, with Jeremiah 51:34 saying “he has swallowed me up like a dragon…” it is very apparent that the creature being spoken of was large.
The dragons were dinosaurs. Even some Christian teachers of the Bible have tried to explain certain animals mentioned in the Bible as being animals that exist today: Rhinoceros, elephant, jackal, hippo. Those Christians fail to see that the actual Bible animal described in Job 40:15,17,19; and the one in Job 41:1 and Job 41:21 no longer exist today. Just because some people have never seen such animals doesn't mean they didn't exist. There are even fossil records of similar dinosaurs.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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The dragons were dinosaurs. Even some Christian teachers of the Bible have tried to explain certain animals mentioned in the Bible as being animals that exist today: Rhinoceros, elephant, jackal, hippo. Those Christians fail to see that the actual Bible animal described in Job 40:15,17,19; and the one in Job 41:1 and Job 41:21 no longer exist today. Just because some people have never seen such animals doesn't mean they didn't exist. There are even fossil records of similar dinosaurs.

Just... wrong. All of this is just so horribly wrong. It's obvious that you don't have a clue about what you're talking about.
 
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