Unrealistic beauty standards?

Dave-W said:

But I think he misses it on the female part.

There is biblical hints of women being turned on by what they see; and the current attitude that it does not happen, or at least not to the same degree as men, is cultural programming.

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I think it is real. It's why playgirl magazine never took off.

LovebirdsFlying said:

That was interesting. I suppose there are exceptions. I heard a woman on a dating show, when asked what she was looking for in a man. Without even hesitating, "Oh, he's gotta have a cute butt...." I can think of a lot of things more important to me than whether or not a potential partner has a cute butt. Yet it was the first thing she thought of.

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I think society has been pushing women to look at men mostly for their looks. It's all part of the attempt to neutralize the differences between the sexes.

Almost there said:

I think it is real. It's why playgirl magazine never took off.

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Well, take this with a grain of salt since I'm a straight dude saying it, but I'd argue that men aren't much to look at. At best - from the waist up a guy can get pretty sculpted, have a handsome face, etc. But down below - it's all a mess. lol Who really wants to pay to see that?

DZoolander said:

Who are they being neurotic over these things for?

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It so happens that last weekend I was away with a group of female friends; eight adult women with no men around. And it was amazing to me how much our conversations and reflections on our lives etc centred on the question of discovering (we're all in our thirties or over) and trying to build a sense of worth, which we all seemed to feel had been damaged or impaired in our childhood and young adulthood. For each of us, that discovery/building of a healthy sense of self might have taken different paths, but it was something each of us was actively and consciously engaged in.

So I suspect that these questions are so tied into questions of our identity and value as human beings that we're being "neurotic" for ourselves; for our own sense of who we are and being of worth - having a right to our own lives - in our own right.

Almost there said:

I think it is real. It's why playgirl magazine never took off.

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I suspect it's much more complex than that. Most women have been taught to suppress their sexual impulses rather than act on them.

Paidiske said:

It so happens that last weekend I was away with a group of female friends; eight adult women with no men around. And it was amazing to me how much our conversations and reflections on our lives etc centred on the question of discovering (we're all in our thirties or over) and trying to build a sense of worth, which we all seemed to feel had been damaged or impaired in our childhood and young adulthood. For each of us, that discovery/building of a healthy sense of self might have taken different paths, but it was something each of us was actively and consciously engaged in.

So I suspect that these questions are so tied into questions of our identity and value as human beings that we're being "neurotic" for ourselves; for our own sense of who we are and being of worth - having a right to our own lives - in our own right.

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In a sense I kinda get it - but the way I hear women talk about it is so out of whack (IMHO) that I don't understand where it comes from.

A healthy level of vanity and concern for the "superficial" will do anyone good in life, once again, IMHO. There ARE biases. Brad Pitt DOES go through life having an easier time of it than John Goodman. Cindy Crawford likely HAS had a better go of it than Roseanne Barr. That's just how things work...and I believe that if you understand and accept those realities and work within their constraints to the best of your ability...the better things will be for you.

So the worry and focus is not baseless.

What I don't understand though when it comes to women is how they seem to go off the deep end in terms of their worry about it.

For example... Every guy I know realizes that Brad Pitt has an easier go of it than John Goodman...but nobody beats themselves up because they're not like Brad Pitt. What guys seem to implicitly understand (and what seems to be lost on women) is that it's not important to be Brad Pitt. What's important is to not be John Goodman. You don't need to be on the extreme end of the good looking side to have a good and pleasant life. You just need to not be on the extreme bad end. The closer you are to the mean - and anything you can be above that - is to your benefit.

That's all. That's all you need to worry about...and most guys seem to get that.

Women on the other hand - it's like they're kicking themselves neurotically because they're not Cindy Crawford. So it leaves me wondering why? Who planted that into their heads that they need to be? Most guys I know, employers I know, etc...sure...they would probably react better if the woman was Cindy Crawford all else being equal... But so long as she's in the mean...and not on the Roseanne Barr side of the group...she ain't being discriminated against.

I don't know any guys who turn down dates because they're not "perfect". I don't know any employers that refrain from hiring, giving raises, giving praise, etc...because they're not "perfect". Nobody expects perfect - so why do women behave like they do?

Do they really believe that unless they appeal to EVERYONE - there's something wrong with them? Because that's simply not the case...and if that's what they think...they really need to knock it off. lol

But that's often what it sounds like.

For many of us, growing up, we were faced with a constant stream of negative criticism. I can remember my mother telling me I looked like (well, it translates as) "crazy Mary," or "the back side of a Kalahari donkey," or "spastic." I can remember her taking photos of me for the specific purpose of highlighting my flaws, to "motivate" me to work on them.

That was every day. Every single day while I was growing up I would either be belittled or work really hard hoping that today I might manage to not be belittled.

What do you think that does to you, by the time you're 20?

I'm sure it doesn't do wonders.

But isn't the best way to combat those types of emotions to step back and try and evaluate if they're actually true? Does the world actually care about every flaw your mom pointed out to the degree that she made you think - or does it work closer to the way that I describe it? And if it's the latter - maybe just say screw your mom for being an abusive jerk?

It's not that simple...

It kinda is, IMHO. At least speaking as someone who has experienced my own parental stuff, being on one end of the weight spectrum (+300 lbs) - and being on the other (fit).

It seems to me that everyone is walking around trying to figure out how to "be strong despite what society may think". In reality, that's not the fight at all. Society doesn't care one way or another unless you're on the extreme end of the scale. "You can be strong because nobody cares about the thing you're obsessing over except for you" is a far different kind of emotional battle than believing that you're actually fighting against society (which seems to always be the gist of it).

Can I suggest that mansplaining women's experiences of pressure around appearances really isn't going to help this thread at all?

I'm telling you it's not that simple. In my case, what I just described - along with other abusive behaviour - ended up with me having significant mental health issues (PTSD, with side orders of depression and anxiety).

A bit of CBT doesn't cut it in the face of that much damage; it takes years of careful and painstaking work. And in the meantime, men telling us "just don't feel that way" doesn't help.

Meh, I tend to think that there's a common human experience. I don't expect you to take my word for anything more than just another person's articulated opinion...lol So it's not "mansplaining" - except for the fact that I happen to be a man - explaining my point of view.

My assessment of social dynamics either sounds true, or it doesn't. Gender notwithstanding. lol

No, of course it's not as simple as just stopping thinking that way.

But - I will contend that eventually - when a solution is found (if a solution is found) - it will revolve around understanding that the world doesn't actually work that way to that degree.

This entire thread - what's the title of it? Society's unfair expectations.

Society has no expectations. The whole gist of the conversation is predicated on the idea that defeats people - that people can't give up.

The word "society" is not in the title or the OP. The locus of the expectations is not defined for this discussion.

Ahhh you're right - lol. Although I guess the question would then become "Unrealistic beauty standards"...by whom?

DZoolander said:

Ahhh you're right - lol. Although I guess the question would then become "Unrealistic beauty standards"...by whom?

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Society does promote an often unrealistic standard of beauty, and has done so since the beginning of time. We could talk about the Victorian times with corsets, S curve dresses, Chinese foot binding, white lead makeup in Ancient Greece with continuous dying of hair in vinegar (hence the popularity of wigs when the hair fell out), beauty being an indicator of virtue in the Italian renaissance, etc...society has had standards of beauty throughout the ages, and they often are very unrealistic.


Soooo thankful we don’t have to fit into dresses like that anymore! It hurts just looking at it!