Unrealistic beauty standards?

DZoolander · Mar 7, 2018

What exactly are you trying to control with that?

So that someone will find you worthwhile? That they won't leave? That they'll treat you better?

You know that Halle Berry has had a string of cheaters, right? lol

All4Christ · Mar 7, 2018

DZoolander said:
What exactly are you trying to control with that?

So that someone will find you worthwhile? That they won't leave? That they'll treat you better?

You know that Halle Berry has had a string of cheaters, right? lol

Thank God I already found someone who loves me because of who I am, not because of looks alone.

mina · Mar 7, 2018

I've always been thin; my whole life. My mom was on the thin side, I was active growing up and up until now; it's genes and lifestyle. People have always had something to say about it; sometimes very gross accusations. A girl at my church once spread a rumour about me in the form of a prayer request to many many people that I had an eating disorder. It was quite untrue and I came to find out that she herself had an eating disorder and I don't know if it was projection or jealousy or what. It was hurtful. I feel like I was often the target of jealous thoughts based on weight. But, I've never really had a problem with what my weight was; it was just part of being healthy to me.I wasn't "too thin" I was just in shape and healthy.

I've had very low self esteem over the way I looked though. People always said really ugly and hurtful things to me about my face; even my own grandmother. Especially as a teen, I became extremely shy and self conscious. I believed I was ugly and I hid from people. It affected me quite a lot into my adulthood as well. I never ever believed anyone would or could be attracted to me, I believed I'd never get married. I was in several relationships where after they were over the guy would say petty and gross things about my looks. Or I would be single for long periods of time and then find out years later a guy really liked me and thought I was pretty and was intimidated. I was so so hard on myself. When my husband admitted to liking me and thought I was beautiful, I really was in shock. I recently within the past couple of years friended several high school acquaintances on FB. One girl apparently looked through my pictures, some that I thought were totally ug and sent me a message about how well I had aged (we are in our 30's) and that she always thought I was so beautiful in high school. No peers ever told me those things. So I dunno, I always felt people went out of their way to ritually let me know how ugly I was sometimes in a bullying fashion (and when no one ever comes to your defense or just laughs along with your tormentors you start to believe what they say), or they would say I looked nice out of pity. It's a hard thing to get out of your head.

Dave-W · Mar 8, 2018

mina said:
I've had very low self esteem over the way I looked though. People always said really ugly and hurtful things to me about my face; even my own grandmother. Especially as a teen, I became extremely shy and self conscious. I believed I was ugly and I hid from people.

I am so sorry that happened to you. But I have heard that from girls and women over and over and over, even from women that could be super models.

It seems to be endemic to this culture to tell all women they are too ugly/too fat/too thin/too short/too tall/ or too whatever. And most believe it and get down on themselves because of it. So sad.

DZoolander · Mar 8, 2018

Meh - everyone carries their own baggage around - and people are rarely good to each other. Big people tell people on the skinnier end of the spectrum to "go eat a hamburger". People on the skinnier end of the spectrum don't understand how bigger people let themselves get that way. Then their own insecurities get into the mix and influence what they say to each other.

I think you're the best arbiter of where you actually stand. Likely if you're too big, you know it, void of anyone telling you. If you're fit, you know it, void of anyone telling you. If you've got some unhealthy eating disorder, you know it.

The best thing to do is filter everyone else out and go with what you know for yourself, and do what's best for yourself.

All4Christ · Mar 8, 2018

DZoolander said:
Meh - everyone carries their own baggage around - and people are rarely good to each other. Big people tell people on the skinnier end of the spectrum to "go eat a hamburger". People on the skinnier end of the spectrum don't understand how bigger people let themselves get that way. Then their own insecurities get into the mix and influence what they say to each other.

I think you're the best arbiter of where you actually stand. Likely if you're too big, you know it, void of anyone telling you. If you're fit, you know it, void of anyone telling you. If you've got some unhealthy eating disorder, you know it.

The best thing to do is filter everyone else out and go with what you know for yourself, and do what's best for yourself.

Sometimes people are actually not aware of it. They often think they are doing things to improve their health, or are just doing what they should do. Until people experience something, there is no way they truly know what happens.

At times, people do need someone close to them to express their concern, since they may not recognize it themselves. That said, there are often times people say things flippantly and say things that are way out of order. Saying things like “go eat a burger” or condemning / judging others certainly isn’t right.

DZoolander · Mar 8, 2018

All4Christ said:
Sometimes people are actually not aware of it. They often think they are doing things to improve their health, or are just doing what they should do. Until people experience something, there is no way they truly know what happens.

Do you really think that's true though?

I mean, when I was big, I knew I was big. The problem I had is that I gave it meaning. What I mean by that is - I started to adopt thoughts like "It shouldn't matter - and if it does to someone - that's their problem and shows what kind of person they are". In a sense, it became kind of a litmus test for other people. It ended up taking on a lot of things other than "I'm just too damn big". When I stopped giving it meaning - and just treated it like just another thing with a cause and an effect - is when I got rid of the problem.

I mean - part of the reason why I say that I make no friends when I talk about the weight issue - is because I take the stance that it's the meaning people attribute to it that I believe is the biggest problem people face in making any change. When I was younger and I got big - there was a very specific reason for that. When I stopped those behaviors - it went away. When I had kids and got wrapped up in that/my behaviors changed - some of it came back. There's no rocket science to it.

For example, when I was younger I was dating this girl. When she introduced me to her mom (this is when I was 28 and I'd just done the weight loss thing) - her mom at the end of the evening brought it up. I've always been awkward about talking about it...and this type of dialogue is an example of why.

"I hear you've successfully lost a lot of weight."
"Yep."
"I've been trying for a long time, but haven't been successful, and I'm not sure why."
"Are you asking why I was successful but you haven't been?"
"Yes."
"Well, I can take a potshot at that. In the past 45 minutes we've been together, you had a huge piece of lasagna, a few breadsticks, the salad with all of the dressing, and now you're chasing that all down with a piece of tiramisu. This one meal far exceeds what you need for the whole day, and I doubt this is the only meal you've had today. I also doubt you're going to go do any cardio after this. I also doubt this happens infrequently.

I don't do that - ever. I haven't for the past 8 months straight. That's likely why I'm successful and you haven't been."

Well - as you can imagine that didn't fly very well with the girl I was dating...lol She called me the next day to say we were through.

"I can't believe you said that to my mom."
"Well, she asked. I assumed she wanted an answer."
"You can be such a jerk sometimes. There are lots of reason why people eat."
"She didn't ask why she had eating problems. If she told me she had issues to iron out that caused her overeating I'd have told her to see a therapist. That wasn't the question though."

---

It sounds jerky...but ya know...that is kinda the right answer. I do firmly believe it's the meaning people give things that causes them the most difficulty in any endeavor in life.

---

So back to my original question...I think everyone knows where they actually stand. They just get wrapped up in their inner monologues about it. What does this or that mean to them? But I have a hard time believing that someone that's starving themself doesn't know they're doing something unhealthy - or as someone is shoving their finger down their throat to vomit out their meal that they don't know that's kinda bad...lol Or when someone is really big compared to everyone else - that they don't notice.

Ya know?

DZoolander · Mar 8, 2018

On a side note - I heard from another mutual friend like a year later that her mom had lost a fair amount of weight. lol

mina · Mar 8, 2018

Dave-W said:
I am so sorry that happened to you. But I have heard that from girls and women over and over and over, even from women that could be super models.

It seems to be endemic to this culture to tell all women they are too ugly/too fat/too thin/too short/too tall/ or too whatever. And most believe it and get down on themselves because of it. So sad.

I agree. It even happens within church culture. The worst of the criticism I got wasn't at school really, it was at church- often that overlapped with school (same people). I guess some kids or people have the tendency to bully and wound others no matter the environment. I can look back now with grown up eyes and see a lot of that WAS jealousy. Not that I think I'm super beautiful and awesome, but many of the people that had problems with me for existing HAD weight problems, family problems, hair problems, skin problems, etc whatever..... Immature; but nothing makes some people feel better than hurting others and avoiding their own issues. Or else they were getting it from everyone else too and giving it to someone else made it hurt less. Even after school age, I experienced this into my college years and 20's. Women can be vicious to other women for no reason at all, and I've experienced that men can be vicious to women as well. Christian or non christian environment- it made no difference in my experience. It's interesting that this thread seems to center the discussion on weight. No doubt that is a HUGE part of female beauty standards imposed on society. There never seems to be a healthy acceptance - the stick thin models are airbrushed (they aren't even thin enough), the bigger models tread carefully on being proud of their size and promoting healthy weights. Society is off.

DZoolander · Mar 8, 2018

I think it makes sense that it centers around weight - that's one of the universally agreed upon issues.

Dave-W · Mar 8, 2018

mina said:
but nothing makes some people feel better than hurting others and avoiding their own issues.

that is absolutely too true.

It is kinda like the old adage if you want to look thinner, fatten up all of your friends.

With friends like that ....

All4Christ · Mar 8, 2018

DZoolander said:
Do you really think that's true though?

I mean, when I was big, I knew I was big. The problem I had is that I gave it meaning. What I mean by that is - I started to adopt thoughts like "It shouldn't matter - and if it does to someone - that's their problem and shows what kind of person they are". In a sense, it became kind of a litmus test for other people. It ended up taking on a lot of things other than "I'm just too damn big". When I stopped giving it meaning - and just treated it like just another thing with a cause and an effect - is when I got rid of the problem.

I mean - part of the reason why I say that I make no friends when I talk about the weight issue - is because I take the stance that it's the meaning people attribute to it that I believe is the biggest problem people face in making any change. When I was younger and I got big - there was a very specific reason for that. When I stopped those behaviors - it went away. When I had kids and got wrapped up in that/my behaviors changed - some of it came back. There's no rocket science to it.

For example, when I was younger I was dating this girl. When she introduced me to her mom (this is when I was 28 and I'd just done the weight loss thing) - her mom at the end of the evening brought it up. I've always been awkward about talking about it...and this type of dialogue is an example of why.

"I hear you've successfully lost a lot of weight."
"Yep."
"I've been trying for a long time, but haven't been successful, and I'm not sure why."
"Are you asking why I was successful but you haven't been?"
"Yes."
"Well, I can take a potshot at that. In the past 45 minutes we've been together, you had a huge piece of lasagna, a few breadsticks, the salad with all of the dressing, and now you're chasing that all down with a piece of tiramisu. This one meal far exceeds what you need for the whole day, and I doubt this is the only meal you've had today. I also doubt you're going to go do any cardio after this. I also doubt this happens infrequently.

I don't do that - ever. I haven't for the past 8 months straight. That's likely why I'm successful and you haven't been."

Well - as you can imagine that didn't fly very well with the girl I was dating...lol She called me the next day to say we were through.

"I can't believe you said that to my mom."
"Well, she asked. I assumed she wanted an answer."
"You can be such a jerk sometimes. There are lots of reason why people eat."
"She didn't ask why she had eating problems. If she told me she had issues to iron out that caused her overeating I'd have told her to see a therapist. That wasn't the question though."

---

It sounds jerky...but ya know...that is kinda the right answer. I do firmly believe it's the meaning people give things that causes them the most difficulty in any endeavor in life.

---

So back to my original question...I think everyone knows where they actually stand. They just get wrapped up in their inner monologues about it. What does this or that mean to them? But I have a hard time believing that someone that's starving themself doesn't know they're doing something unhealthy - or as someone is shoving their finger down their throat to vomit out their meal that they don't know that's kinda bad...lol Or when someone is really big compared to everyone else - that they don't notice.

Ya know?

Not everyone who has eating issues shoved their finger down their throat or considers themselves to starve themselves. I’m speaking from experience, which I will stop talking about soon.

I ate, but ate really healthy foods (which had too little calories). I ran 5 times a week for around 5 miles each day. I had dance lessons some other days. If you asked a doctor for what an ideal healthy diet is - I would have been right there. We have familial high cholesterol. My diet matched the way to help combat that with nutrition. However, I wasn’t eating enough for what my body needed. I was at an overweight status before I lost the weight - and just kept going way too long. I didn’t stop to go to maintenance. And yes - I didn’t realize that I was being unhealthy. People still congratulated me all the time when I had gone down about 55 pounds to well the low 90s - which for me is very unhealthy. I didn’t recognize it as a problem though. Not everyone who has an eating issue does the well known “eating disorder” actions. Not everyone who becomes obsessive about something realizes that they are in a dangerous situation.

My doctor’s suggestion when I went because I was feeling like I couldn’t gain weight once I saw that I had health problems was to “go to Mcdonalds and get a milkshake”. I was eating too healthy. I matched all the diets weight loss programs recommend...and it wasn’t right for me.

So no, I didn’t think I was doing the wrong thing. Many others don’t as well.

DZoolander · Mar 8, 2018

Makes sense. I noticed a similar propensity as well. Like, I became so accustomed to viewing things years ago from a "weight loss" perspective that once I was finished it was hard for me to bring back a form of balance. I at one point dropped to around 185 or so - which *is* kinda thin for 6'03" - and then I figured that the combination of my cardio regimen and diet wasn't ideal any more. What had made sense during one phase didn't necessarily make sense later.

All4Christ · Mar 8, 2018

DZoolander said:
Makes sense. I noticed a similar propensity as well. Like, I became so accustomed to viewing things years ago from a "weight loss" perspective that once I was finished it was hard for me to bring back a form of balance. I at one point dropped to around 185 or so - which *is* kinda thin for 6'03" - and then I figured that the combination of my cardio regimen and diet wasn't ideal any more. What had made sense during one phase didn't necessarily make sense later.

Exactly. The key is realizing that you got to that point. People still congratulating you and telling you to keep pushing on to lose more doesn’t help at that point...and for some people (ahem...me), we get obsessive about doing it right and don’t know when to stop

Balance is key, and that’s an important thing for us all to work in and help each other. The dance world is especially difficult with balance regarding your body.

Almost there · Mar 8, 2018

tall73 said:
This is a spin-off from the female attractiveness thread. How do beauty/body image expectations impact us?

I think both men and women notice the attractiveness in the opposite sex, but in different ways:

The first thing men notice is looks, and the more attractive the woman is, the more they may pursue the woman. Her personality is almost an irrelevance, at least at first. Women, meanwhile, care about the looks of men, but rather than the attractiveness of the man being what attracts them, over-the-top ugliness can become a show stopper. The "man inside" is what women generally go for.

i.e. men will date a beautiful woman unless she's one of the super crazy ones, and women will date a strong, confident and successful man as long as he's not super ugly or otherwise physically disgusting.

LovebirdsFlying · Mar 8, 2018

Almost there said:
I think both men and women notice the attractiveness in the opposite sex, but in different ways:

The first thing men notice is looks, and the more attractive the woman is, the more they may pursue the woman. Her personality is almost an irrelevance, at least at first. Women, meanwhile, care about the looks of men, but rather than the attractiveness of the man being what attracts them, over-the-top ugliness can become a show stopper. The "man inside" is what women generally go for.

i.e. men will date a beautiful woman unless she's one of the super crazy ones, and women will date a strong, confident and successful man as long as he's not super ugly or otherwise physically disgusting.

Physical attractiveness isn't even on my radar. At least not in terms of things he can't help, like being bald or having a big nose or whatever. If it's something he could easily fix but won't, like not brushing his teeth, then yes, in that sense, looks matter. And I don't think attractiveness is on my husband's radar either. We met online, and were in love before we ever met face-to-face. It had to be something other than looks that attracted each other. I, for one, would rather have a ho-hum looking man who treats me the way my husband does, than to have somebody who's pretty to look at but treats me like I'm dirt.

I've seen that superficial thinking come up. I was watching Kellie Pickler a few years ago on Are You Smarter Than a Fifth-Grader? She plays that dumb-blonde routine to the hilt. I *refuse* to believe it's not an act. I'm absolutely convinced she was hamming it for the cameras. For one thing, she guessed a piccolo was a percussion instrument because both words begin with the letter P. Um, she's a musician for a living. You'd think she'd know better. So in the comments section on one of the YouTube videos of her appearance: "Oh, leave her alone. She may be dumb, but she is sooooo foxy." Yeah. Apparently as long as you're foxy, nothing else matters.

Inverse being also true, that if you're NOT foxy, then you can be smart as a bee sting, and that won't matter either.

Sometimes human nature depresses me.

Almost there · Mar 8, 2018

LovebirdsFlying said:
Physical attractiveness isn't even on my radar. At least not in terms of things he can't help, like being bald or having a big nose or whatever. If it's something he could easily fix but won't, like not brushing his teeth, then yes, in that sense, looks matter. And I don't think attractiveness is on my husband's radar either. We met online, and were in love before we ever met face-to-face. It had to be something other than looks that attracted each other. I, for one, would rather have a ho-hum looking man who treats me the way my husband does, than to have somebody who's pretty to look at but treats me like I'm dirt.

I've seen that superficial thinking come up. I was watching Kellie Pickler a few years ago on Are You Smarter Than a Fifth-Grader? She plays that dumb-blonde routine to the hilt. I *refuse* to believe it's not an act. I'm absolutely convinced she was hamming it for the cameras. For one thing, she guessed a piccolo was a percussion instrument because both words begin with the letter P. Um, she's a musician for a living. You'd think she'd know better. So in the comments section on one of the YouTube videos of her appearance: "Oh, leave her alone. She may be dumb, but she is sooooo foxy." Yeah. Apparently as long as you're foxy, nothing else matters.

Inverse being also true, that if you're NOT foxy, then you can be smart as a bee sting, and that won't matter either.

Sometimes human nature depresses me.

Yes, your perspective is pretty typical for the female side. Regarding your husband's attitude, I think the older the guy is, the less looks matter to him as well, generally speaking. Prager U really nails the male part here:

Dave-W · Mar 8, 2018

Almost there said:
Prager U really nails the male part here:

But I think he misses it on the female part.

There is biblical hints of women being turned on by what they see; and the current attitude that it does not happen, or at least not to the same degree as men, is cultural programming.

LovebirdsFlying · Mar 8, 2018

Almost there said:
Yes, your perspective is pretty typical for the female side. Regarding your husband's attitude, I think the older the guy is, the less looks matter to him as well, generally speaking. Prager U really nails the male part here:

That was interesting. I suppose there are exceptions. I heard a woman on a dating show, when asked what she was looking for in a man. Without even hesitating, "Oh, he's gotta have a cute butt...." I can think of a lot of things more important to me than whether or not a potential partner has a cute butt. Yet it was the first thing she thought of.

DZoolander · Mar 8, 2018

LovebirdsFlying said:
I, for one, would rather have a ho-hum looking man who treats me the way my husband does, than to have somebody who's pretty to look at but treats me like I'm dirt.

I always wonder when I see people make blanket statements like that. I wonder if that's instinctive - or if it's a lesson learned.

Didn't you mention that you had a first husband, and he wasn't really kind? Did looks matter then and was that part of the equation?

Unrealistic beauty standards?

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