Judging Other Christians

A_Thinker said:

See ... this is what we're coming to ... division of Christ by politics ...

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Our political views shouldn’t be stronger than our faith that binds us. This was and is my point.

ToBeLoved said:

Our political views shouldn’t be stronger than our faith that binds us. This was and is my point.

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This only happens with Christians who don't know where their home is.

Lybrah said:

The other day a pastor friend made a post on social media to his Christian friends, urging them to vote in the US midterms. He stated: Go out and vote if you care about fair treatment of women and their bodies, rights for sexual minorities...vote... Now, he listed other issues too, but the aforementioned two got me really annoyed. Is he pro-choice? Does he condone homosexuality/transgenderism? Why am I getting so annoyed at him? I used to be pro-choice myself. I don't want to judge on whether or not he is a true Christian. But in all other senses, he is a really godly person (aside from constantly making everything a race issue). I decided not to say anything to him. But I can't help feeling disappointed/annoyed at him, and then at myself for the judging. Should I say anything to him?

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Sure. You can tell him you are for the fair treatment of women, and women's bodies, and human rights for all people, and none of that means that you will necessarily be voting for the same person that he will, or for the same policies that he advocates.

And then thank him for encouraging you to get out and vote anyway.

Lybrah, we know its what GOD says.. His word...is truth. But one that is for "homosexuality/transgenderism" does this void out what Christ did on the Cross? Does this have more power then the blood of Jesus? Wise not to touch this (as in saying they are not saved then. For it is a sin) for one needs to know the heart. We tend to look at or judge a moment in time and apply that to the life.. the Father will not.

For my self no one on this planet can say I am or I am not a believer a follower of Yeshua. Since we can not speak for this preacher.. why not just ask him? MAYBE lol he meant it a different way?

Lybrah said:

The other day a pastor friend made a post on social media to his Christian friends, urging them to vote in the US midterms. He stated: Go out and vote if you care about fair treatment of women and their bodies, rights for sexual minorities...vote... Now, he listed other issues too, but the aforementioned two got me really annoyed. Is he pro-choice? Does he condone homosexuality/transgenderism? Why am I getting so annoyed at him? I used to be pro-choice myself. I don't want to judge on whether or not he is a true Christian. But in all other senses, he is a really godly person (aside from constantly making everything a race issue). I decided not to say anything to him. But I can't help feeling disappointed/annoyed at him, and then at myself for the judging. Should I say anything to him?

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just mine opinion

but unfollow him on social media, why allow his garbage to aggravate you?

you have enough problems in your life as it is let him sort out his own

Lybrah said:

The other day a pastor friend made a post on social media to his Christian friends, urging them to vote in the US midterms. He stated: Go out and vote if you care about fair treatment of women and their bodies, rights for sexual minorities...vote... Now, he listed other issues too, but the aforementioned two got me really annoyed. Is he pro-choice? Does he condone homosexuality/transgenderism? Why am I getting so annoyed at him? I used to be pro-choice myself. I don't want to judge on whether or not he is a true Christian. But in all other senses, he is a really godly person (aside from constantly making everything a race issue). I decided not to say anything to him. But I can't help feeling disappointed/annoyed at him, and then at myself for the judging. Should I say anything to him?

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I think I would find a new church. Start a home church, reading the Bible, instead of current events.

By the way, do not say anything to the pastor. If you want to ask him to clarify what he meant, that's fine... but assuming you quoted him directly, I think we both already know.

But my view on confronting pastors has dramatically shifted over the past 3 years.
I used to be of the opinion of you go and say 'wasssup??!?' when they said something crazy.

But now when I've read through the bible a dozen times, there are dozens on dozens of times that the Bible says that people who question specifically G-d's chosen messengers, that G-d doesn't take too kindly to that. So I would rather simply leave the Church, and start a home church even, rather than confront a man of G-d.

If someone needs to confront him, it should be the elders of the church in private, or other the leaders of other churches, but not me. I'm not going to risk judgement, because I didn't understand why someone said something, and then confront G-d's chosen.

Again, he may not be a Christian. He might be fake. But I can't see his heart, so I'm not taking the risk.

That's my view. Don't confront. And don't be talking about him to other people in the church either. Anonymously online is fine to ask questions like this, but don't go behind people's backs and start gossip.

Anyway, that's my advice.

Andrew77 said:

I think I would find a new church. Start a home church, reading the Bible, instead of current events.

By the way, do not say anything to the pastor. If you want to ask him to clarify what he meant, that's fine... but assuming you quoted him directly, I think we both already know.

But my view on confronting pastors has dramatically shifted over the past 3 years.
I used to be of the opinion of you go and say 'wasssup??!?' when they said something crazy.

But now when I've read through the bible a dozen times, there are dozens on dozens of times that the Bible says that people who question specifically G-d's chosen messengers, that G-d doesn't take too kindly to that. So I would rather simply leave the Church, and start a home church even, rather than confront a man of G-d.

If someone needs to confront him, it should be the elders of the church in private, or other the leaders of other churches, but not me. I'm not going to risk judgement, because I didn't understand why someone said something, and then confront G-d's chosen.

Again, he may not be a Christian. He might be fake. But I can't see his heart, so I'm not taking the risk.

That's my view. Don't confront. And don't be talking about him to other people in the church either. Anonymously online is fine to ask questions like this, but don't go behind people's backs and start gossip.

Anyway, that's my advice.

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I would also add to the thought of why you may not want to confront the pastor is you have no idea how they will react or moreover what biases they may form after they have been confronted.

What I mean by this is most of the time people don't like to be criticised or even backed into a corner about something, so if she/he does confront them they should be ready for the very real possibility that that person will look at them like differently after the conversation. And it might not be about what they even said, but maybe the perceived insecurities that the pastor has or even if you catch them on a bad day or other things.

ToBeLoved said:

I would also add to the thought of why you may not want to confront the pastor is you have no idea how they will react or moreover what biases they may form after they have been confronted.

What I mean by this is most of the time people don't like to be criticised or even backed into a corner about something, so if she/he does confront them they should be ready for the very real possibility that that person will look at them like differently after the conversation. And it might not be about what they even said, but maybe the perceived insecurities that the pastor has or even if you catch them on a bad day or other things.

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Yeah that doesn't bother me so much. Jesus confronted people all the time, and they certainly did look at him differently when he confronted them.

But that's what being Christian is all about. We're suppose to be the people who stand against what is wrong, and are willing to suffer for it.

The problem is just that this guy is a pastor, so that changes things for me.

Andrew77 said:

Yeah that doesn't bother me so much. Jesus confronted people all the time, and they certainly did look at him differently when he confronted them.

But that's what being Christian is all about. We're suppose to be the people who stand against what is wrong, and are willing to suffer for it.

The problem is just that this guy is a pastor, so that changes things for me.

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Speaking the truth needs to be a more important value on the scale of values than being liked. It is very understandable why people do not want to confront anyone, because confrontation can be a very uncomfortable social situation, especially with people that we actually like and admire and respect.
It is good to remember though that there are sins of commission, and sins of omission as well.
We are co-creators with God in this world. We create whole words with our words, just like the Word created our word with his word "Be".
And it is also possible to create entire worlds with lies, and these worlds spiral us all straight down to a hell of our own making.
Everyone who has chosen to live their lives outside of the sacramental life as described in the Bible understands well enough that to stray into sexual sin especially is to become bonded to the slavery of the flesh. To 'free' oneself of the bonds of childhood is to become a prisoner in the cities of Cain, to forever wear his mark on their very persons.
Pastors especially who project this as a freedom are creating worlds of lies.
Christians know better, and they need to make it clear that to follow the wisdom of the world is to become slaves to the rulers of this world.

Apostasy has complete domination of the internet, along with their Atheist counterparts. There is no such thing as a Liberal Christian. Bible is clear on Homosexuality.

This forum was found using Google, who recently hired the anti-Christian terror group the SPLC.

FireDragon76 said:

I don't see the pastor as saying anything equivalent to that.

There are many Christians that are not Republicans. Most of them don't post on Christian Forums. Most would not consider it a good use of their time, since there is so much expressed hostility against anyone who has a different view of the Christians relationship to the political process.

LGBT rights is part of my denomination's constitution. No Evangelical Lutheran is free to discriminate against LGBT people in housing or public services. ELCA Lutherans are also free to have different opinions on the ethics of abortion, according to what their conscience dictates.

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Jesus said 'My Kingdom is not of this world'.

Cgnet said:

Apostasy has complete domination of the internet, along with their Atheist counterparts. There is no such thing as a Liberal Christian. Bible is clear on Homosexuality.

This forum was found using Google, who recently hired the anti-Christian terror group the SPLC.

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It’s a conspiracy?

SolomonVII said:

Speaking the truth needs to be a more important value on the scale of values than being liked. It is very understandable why people do not want to confront anyone, because confrontation can be a very uncomfortable social situation, especially with people that we actually like and admire and respect.
It is good to remember though that there are sins of commission, and sins of omission as well.
We are co-creators with God in this world. We create whole words with our words, just like the Word created our word with his word "Be".
And it is also possible to create entire worlds with lies, and these worlds spiral us all straight down to a hell of our own making.
Everyone who has chosen to live their lives outside of the sacramental life as described in the Bible understands well enough that to stray into sexual sin especially is to become bonded to the slavery of the flesh. To 'free' oneself of the bonds of childhood is to become a prisoner in the cities of Cain, to forever wear his mark on their very persons.
Pastors especially who project this as a freedom are creating worlds of lies.
Christians know better, and they need to make it clear that to follow the wisdom of the world is to become slaves to the rulers of this world.

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I don’t know. If she talked to him in a room by themselves I would say it is good. I wouldn’t do it in front of others. We are not suppose to divide the church.

Andrew77 said:

Yeah that doesn't bother me so much. Jesus confronted people all the time, and they certainly did look at him differently when he confronted them.

But that's what being Christian is all about. We're suppose to be the people who stand against what is wrong, and are willing to suffer for it.

The problem is just that this guy is a pastor, so that changes things for me.

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Who did Jesus confront though?

He confronted a certain group
Of people, otherwise He was teaching

ToBeLoved said:

I don’t know. If she talked to him in a room by themselves I would say it is good. I wouldn’t do it in front of others. We are not suppose to divide the church.

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Every situation is going to be different. If it is part of the Sunday sermon, best to keep silent, and privately discuss with the pastor later. It is not your place to confront him in that situation publicly. If it is a group Bible discussion, then it is a very fragile sort of unity that is not able to withstand a difference of opinion without falling apart.
Intent also plays a role. If one believes that there is a possibility that your intent is to humiliate or embarrass the man, then it is best to confront him in private. On the other hand, if there is a possibility that the intent of avoiding confrontation is due to your own cowardice, non-confrontation is a character flaw, and to speak your mind openly is the cure to that flaw.

SolomonVII said:

Every situation is going to be different. If it is part of the Sunday sermon, best to keep silent, and privately discuss with the pastor later. It is not your place to confront him in that situation publicly. If it is a group Bible discussion, then it is a very fragile sort of unity that is not able to withstand a difference of opinion without falling apart.
Intent also plays a role. If one believes that there is a possibility that your intent is to humiliate or embarrass the man, then it is best to confront him in private. On the other hand, if there is a possibility that the intent of avoiding confrontation is due to your own cowardice, non-confrontation is a character flaw, and to speak your mind openly is the cure to that flaw.

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That last sentence is whack. You don’t cause issues and gossip to cute a character flaw. That needs to be worked out on every day life

ToBeLoved said:

That last sentence is whack. You don’t cause issues and gossip to cute a character flaw. That needs to be worked out on every day life

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Gossip is the way that the character flaw plays out for those who are too much of a coward to confront a person face on, or speak out what they believe in a crowd full of people.
I am not talking about gossiping behind people's back. Where did I use the word gossip?

Your red herring is whack.
And what does "cute a character flaw" even mean?

Cute dog though. Freudian slip?

SolomonVII said:

Gossip is the way that the character flaw plays out for those who are too much of a coward to confront a person face on, or speak out what they believe in a crowd full of people.
I am not talking about gossiping behind people's back. Where did I use the word gossip?

Your red herring is whack.
And what does "cute a character flaw" even mean?

Cute dog though. Freudian slip?

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Cure a character flaw. Typo

Lybrah said:

The other day a pastor friend made a post on social media to his Christian friends, urging them to vote in the US midterms. He stated: Go out and vote if you care about fair treatment of women and their bodies, rights for sexual minorities...vote... Now, he listed other issues too, but the aforementioned two got me really annoyed. Is he pro-choice? Does he condone homosexuality/transgenderism? Why am I getting so annoyed at him? I used to be pro-choice myself. I don't want to judge on whether or not he is a true Christian. But in all other senses, he is a really godly person (aside from constantly making everything a race issue). I decided not to say anything to him. But I can't help feeling disappointed/annoyed at him, and then at myself for the judging. Should I say anything to him?

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Judge not the person, but judge his words. Do they possess the qualities of good fruit? That is, do his words taste like the goodness of Truth? If not, cut down that tree of deceit since it is rooted in the father of lies. Yet, this is not cause to have agitation in the poor man since he is deceived by Satan. Rather, should we not grieve for him and pray for him because he is our brother, if not in the Spirit, then certainly in the flesh? My spiritual advisor told me that it is often better to remain silent than to speak to someone. Moreover, it is even better to remain silent and pray for that person. Who knows? It is often the case that when we speak in an agitated state, we are so conceited that we do not detect the fact that we are not speaking according to the Holy Spirit but rather by a deceitful spirit that is leading us to stir up strife amongst our brethren and to cause offense instead of preserving peace. Instead of bearing the fruits of the spirit, primarily meekness, we bear the fruits of the flesh, namely, irritation. How can God be speaking through someone like that? And if God is not speaking, but we are speaking according to our carnality, then how are our words edifying, good, and God-pleasing?

I don't have an answer for you. I simply urge you to consider what I have presented before taking action. I believe that those who are deluded require much more tenderness and gentleness, infused with merciful love, in order to be led back to the truth of Christ without wounding them with our sharp words.

Lybrah said:

The other day a pastor friend made a post on social media to his Christian friends, urging them to vote in the US midterms. He stated: Go out and vote if you care about fair treatment of women and their bodies, rights for sexual minorities...vote... Now, he listed other issues too, but the aforementioned two got me really annoyed. Is he pro-choice? Does he condone homosexuality/transgenderism? Why am I getting so annoyed at him? I used to be pro-choice myself. I don't want to judge on whether or not he is a true Christian. But in all other senses, he is a really godly person (aside from constantly making everything a race issue). I decided not to say anything to him. But I can't help feeling disappointed/annoyed at him, and then at myself for the judging. Should I say anything to him?

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People like that judge conservatives all the time. I don't know that you should necessarily say something, but examine him and his teaching carefully. If he starts preaching the delusion that Jesus supports left-wing issues like that, find a different church, because he has made "progressivism" his idol. If he is simply obsessed with that stuff and hasn't crossed that line, I would still leave.