Female deacons, is it biblical?

Matthew 24 10 · Mar 1, 2018

Strong in Him said:
That does not prove that a woman can't preach in church.

That passage says "husband of ONE wife", so first of all a deacon MUST be a husband; it says so. That means any monks, Catholic priests and single men can't preach/be ordained. They will have to go out and find a woman to marry; not because they love her and are called to marriage, but because if they want to preach they also have to have a wife. (According to your interpretation of that ONE verse.)
The passage also says that deacons/bishops should be able to control their children, 1 Timothy 3:4. So not only does a male deacon/bishop HAVE to be married, he and his wife HAVE to be fertile - otherwise he is not fulfilling the qualities needed in a deacon.
Not only this, they HAVE to be sober, self-controlled, orderly, given to hospitality and able to teach, 1 Timothy 3:2.
Funny how you never hear anyone teaching about this, or saying "x isn't allowed to be a deacon, he can't teach and has a temper."

If you are going to take one verse out of context and apply it literally, you have to apply ALL of it in the same way; not just the bit that you like.

I agree , i never said all churches are following this in reality nobody is following this .

And i'm teaching you right now so there is somebody teaching , quality not quantity

Strong in Him · Mar 1, 2018

Matthew 24 10 said:
And i'm teaching you right now so there is somebody teaching , quality not quantity

You're not teaching me; you're giving me your interpretation of this passage.
And it's nothing that I haven't heard a dozen times before, so it's not even new.

Matthew 24 10 · Mar 1, 2018

Strong in Him said:
You're not teaching me; you're giving me your interpretation of this passage.
And it's nothing that I haven't heard a dozen times before, so it's not even new.

I'm not giving you interpretation , it means what it says "suffer woman not to teach " you can accept it or reject it it's simple .

Strong in Him · Mar 1, 2018

Matthew 24 10 said:
I'm not giving you interpretation , it means what it says "suffer woman not to teach " you can accept it or reject it it's simple .

It says I suffer not ..... not GOD commands that this must never happen.
You are taking a verse out of context, without considering other passages in Scripture.

Does Scripture contradict itself?
If not, why did Paul let Priscilla teach Apollos, and allow women to prophesy?
Why didn't he say that the Holy Spirit only gives certain gifts to men and that women are excluded?
Why did Jesus allow the woman at the well to tell others about him?
Does the Great Commission apply only to men? Jesus told his disciples to preach the Gospel, to teach others about him and make disciples. I am a disciple, which means "learner". If Jesus tells me to teach and preach; I'm going to do it.

corinth77777 · Mar 1, 2018

Complete in Thee said:
Is it biblical for females to assume the role of a deacon?

1 Timothy 3

While God can use anyone, My thoughts are that men should lead the church.
As Adam should have led Eve.
Adam was made...and Eve was made from Adam.
So if you want to have servants or be a servant...why put a name on it? Just serve.

corinth77777 · Mar 1, 2018

Strong in Him said:
It says I suffer not ..... not GOD commands that this must never happen.
You are taking a verse out of context, without considering other passages in Scripture.

Does Scripture contradict itself?
If not, why did Paul let Priscilla teach Apollos, and allow women to prophesy?
Why didn't he say that the Holy Spirit only gives certain gifts to men and that women are excluded?
Why did Jesus allow the woman at the well to tell others about him?
Does the Great Commission apply only to men? Jesus told his disciples to preach the Gospel, to teach others about him and make disciples. I am a disciple, which means "learner". If Jesus tells me to teach and preach; I'm going to do it.

When it comes to the church gathering together...I believe men should be the head if at all possible.

Radagast · Mar 1, 2018

Matthew 24 10 said:
Well 1 Timothy 3:2 Says pastor is husband of one wife

A better translation would be that a pastor should be a "one-woman man."

Vicomte13 · Mar 1, 2018

Complete in Thee said:
Is it biblical for females to assume the role of a deacon?

Nuns already are deaconesses in everything but name.

Strong in Him · Mar 1, 2018

corinth77777 said:
When it comes to the church gathering together...I believe men should be the head if at all possible.

Yes, some do believe that, and it's fine.
Scripture doesn't say so, or command it, though.

Archivist · Mar 1, 2018

Complete in Thee said:
Is it biblical for females to assume the role of a deacon?

Yes, of course. Paul used the Greek diakonos (διάκονος) to designate Phoebe as a deacon. It is the same word as used elsewhere by Paul to refer to deacons.

Strong in Him · Mar 1, 2018

Archivist said:
Yes, of course. Paul used the Greek diakonos (διάκονος) to designate Phoebe as a deacon. It is the same word as used elsewhere by Paul to refer to deacons.

I believe that this word is also used about Paul and Christ himself?

LovebirdsFlying · Mar 1, 2018

At one church I went to, there were ordained deaconesses along with deacons. The male deacons were more active in the sanctuary. The female deaconesses were more active in the fellowship hall. They cooked, set up potluck dinners, cleaned up afterward, etc. This was some thirty years ago. I don't know how they do things now, but if there is a biblical "women shouldn't be deacons" objection to this arrangement, I can't find one.

JackRT · Mar 1, 2018

There is no doubt from the gospels that Jesus was largely gender blind. Paul, while somewhat conflicted, was much more open than some suppose.

The issue of womens' role in the church is not as clear cut as some people would want to think. The letters of Paul, which date to the middle of the first century AD, provide some clues. For example, Paul greets Prisca, Junia, Julia, and Nereus' sister, who worked and traveled as missionaries in pairs with their husbands or brothers (Romans 16:3, 7, 15) as equals and co-workers. Junia is praised as a prominent apostle, imprisoned for her faith. Mary and Persis are commended for their hard work (Romans 16:6, 12). Euodia and Syntyche are called his fellow-workers in the gospel (Philippians 4:2-3). Women were the leaders of house churches (Apphia in Philemon 2; Prisca in I Corinthians 16:19), Lydia of Thyatira (Acts 16:15) and Nympha of Laodicea (Colossians 4:15). Women held offices and played significant roles in group worship, such as the deacon Phoebe (Romans 16:1) and women were certainly praying and prophesying during worship (I Corinthians 11). An order of widows served formal roles of ministry (I Timothy 5:9-10). Women prophets included Mary Magdalene, the Corinthian women, Philip's daughters, Ammia of Philadelphia, Philumene, the visionary martyr Perpetua, Maximilla, Priscilla (Prisca), and Quintilla.

Keep in mind that this was the very early church. Almost a century later the Pastoral Epistles (1 and 2 Timothy and Titus) were written by a pseudopigraphic author who was right back fully immersed in the patriarchy of those times. It is only within the last several centuries that patriarchy has begun to break down. It is far past time.

dreadnought · Mar 1, 2018

Strong in Him said:
No, he didn't approve of women chattering while the service was going on.
Can't say I blame him.

My Bible doesn’t use the word “chattering.” Here’s what it says:

[33] For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints,
[34] the women should keep silence in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says.
[35] If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.
[36] What! Did the word of God originate with you, or are you the only ones it has reached? 1 Cor 14:33-36 RSV

I believe the question needs to be addressed: Was Paul always right about everything? I think Paul was a great man, but I don’t think he was always right about everything.

Strong in Him · Mar 1, 2018

dreadnought said:
My Bible doesn’t use the word “chattering.”

No, but they were clearly talking while the service was going on.

dreadnought said:
[35] If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.

This suggests to me that they were asking questions, and of men who were not their husbands - otherwise why say it?
"Let them ask their husbands" - i.e not someone else's - "at home" i.e not during worship.

dreadnought said:
I believe the question needs to be addressed:

I believe that if you read it in context; it is addressed.

In the first part of the chapter, Paul is talking about the gifts of tongues and prophecy. It seems some of the Corinthians favoured the gift of tongues - maybe it sounded good or more dramatic. Paul says that prophecy is to be sought after because a prophecy edifies everyone whereas tongues is an individual thing, 1 Corinthians 14:1-5.
Next he talks about order in worship - both tongues and prophecy can be used, but if someone speaks in tongues, there should be an interpretation, 1 Corinthians 14:13-17, 23-28, and no more than 2, or 3, should speak. With prophecy, one person should speak at a time and f while they are speaking, someone else is given a word; they should it down, 1 Corinthians 14:29-31. FOR, God is a God of order, 1 Corinthians 14:33.

Having said all this, Paul then speaks about women not talking but waiting til they get home to ask questions of their husbands.

In the first few verses he does not say that women can't speak in tongues - women were in the upper room at Pentecost. Nor does he say that they cannot prophesy - having already addressed this issue in 1 Corinthians 11. When speaking of the gifts of the Spirit in 1 Corinthians 12, he also does not say that women cannot prophesy, teach, be evangelists or speak in tongues.

With all this - and knowing that Priscilla taught Apollos in Acts 18 - it makes no sense that he would suddenly say "women must keep quiet", and expect people to realise that he was talking about them taking no part at all in worship.

Paidiske · Mar 1, 2018

corinth77777 said:
So if you want to have servants or be a servant...why put a name on it? Just serve.

If you don't put a name on it - a recognised role - many people will refuse to allow you to serve in the ways to which you are called; as evidenced in this thread.

dreadnought · Mar 1, 2018

Strong in Him said:
No, but they were clearly talking while the service was going on.

This suggests to me that they were asking questions, and of men who were not their husbands - otherwise why say it?
"Let them ask their husbands" - i.e not someone else's - "at home" i.e not during worship.

I believe that if you read it in context; it is addressed.

In the first part of the chapter, Paul is talking about the gifts of tongues and prophecy. It seems some of the Corinthians favoured the gift of tongues - maybe it sounded good or more dramatic. Paul says that prophecy is to be sought after because a prophecy edifies everyone whereas tongues is an individual thing, 1 Corinthians 14:1-5.
Next he talks about order in worship - both tongues and prophecy can be used, but if someone speaks in tongues, there should be an interpretation, 1 Corinthians 14:13-17, 23-28, and no more than 2, or 3, should speak. With prophecy, one person should speak at a time and f while they are speaking, someone else is given a word; they should it down, 1 Corinthians 14:29-31. FOR, God is a God of order, 1 Corinthians 14:33.

Having said all this, Paul then speaks about women not talking but waiting til they get home to ask questions of their husbands.

In the first few verses he does not say that women can't speak in tongues - women were in the upper room at Pentecost. Nor does he say that they cannot prophesy - having already addressed this issue in 1 Corinthians 11. When speaking of the gifts of the Spirit in 1 Corinthians 12, he also does not say that women cannot prophesy, teach, be evangelists or speak in tongues.

With all this - and knowing that Priscilla taught Apollos in Acts 18 - it makes no sense that he would suddenly say "women must keep quiet", and expect people to realise that he was talking about them taking no part at all in worship.

It seemed to me he just didn't want women to talk in church. There are men that feel that way.

Strong in Him · Mar 1, 2018

dreadnought said:
It seemed to me he just didn't want women to talk in church. There are men that feel that way.

He didn't.
But he didn't say "don't testify, prophecy, preach or teach" - he said "if you want to ask questions, ask your husbands at home."
As I said, why say that, unless they were asking questions in the service and disrupting it?

dreadnought · Mar 1, 2018

Strong in Him said:
He didn't.
But he didn't say "don't testify, prophecy, preach or teach" - he said "if you want to ask questions, ask your husbands at home."
As I said, why say that, unless they were asking questions in the service and disrupting it?

I think he lacked respect for women, which would have been a failing of his.

Strong in Him · Mar 1, 2018

Paidiske said:
If you don't put a name on it - a recognised role - many people will refuse to allow you to serve in the ways to which you are called; as evidenced in this thread.

Sadly, that is true.
If I visit people who are sick, I'm seen as just visiting people who are sick, and have no special authority or jurisdiction.
When I was given the title "lay/pastoral worker", and paid, then I was allowed to do other things/represent he church in other ways. The title and the payment identified me as one of the church staff and opened other doors to me.
When I have gone for job interviews, they may state "lay or ordained applicants", but they will take the active/supernumerary clergy over a lay person with only a few years experience

I don't believe it should be that way, but it is.

Female deacons, is it biblical?

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