7th Trumpet Rapture?

jgr said:

The 144,000 are not the issue. The issue is, if the Abrahamic genome is present in essentially every one of the more than 7,000,000,000 human beings on earth, which the "Jews" themselves acknowledge and applaud, then genetically they qualify as Israel. We're told that they will reside within Israel, which is a demographic and logistical impossibility, even after 2/3 have been slaughtered according to dispensational dogma.

Unless, of course, God uses an entirely different set of criteria to determine His Own True Israel.

Criteria such as faith and obedience.

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You didn't read the article either.

SeventyOne said:

You didn't read the article either.

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I'm virtually certain that DNA testing and analysis of the Pashtun in your article would demonstrate a Jewish genetic link. This would simply further confirm the planetary proliferation of the Abrahamic genome.

The Cohen Modal Haplotype traces to Abraham, pre-dating the tribes, and is present in some quantity in every individual irrespective of anything to do with tribal identity.

It's entirely understandable that Jewry today is ecstatic regarding Abrahamic genetic proliferation. Why wouldn't they be?

jgr said:

Genetically, Israel is found in every human on the planet. The "Jews" themselves acknowledge and applaud that reality because to them it is the fulfillment of God's promise to Abraham.

Abraham lineage

DNA Tests Could Fulfill God’s Promise to Abraham by Revealing Millions of Jews. But How Jewish is Jewish Enough?

Israel in all of Us? Research finds 'Jewish genes' in unusual places

Therefore, if "Israel will be living in Israel", the whole human race will be living in Israel.

How will everyone find room?

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jgr,

1. You are thinking with human logic. You can’t throw the rest of the scriptures out on the prophecies about literal Israel.

2. Ezekiel 37 shows the regathering of the Jewish nation.
The two sticks of Israel and Judah have to be united Ezekiel 37:16-28.
David has to be the King over Israel Ezekiel 37:24.
Jesus will be the ultimate and supreme ruler of the earth.Isaiah 2:3-5; 9:6-7; Zechariah 14:9.
Israel will live in the land which will be enlarged in the Kingdom Genesis 12-15.
Jerusalem must be the capital of the earth, for out of Zion shall go forth the law Isaiah 2:2-4.

Jesus and the the church age saints will have rulership positions throughout the kingdom Psalm 2:9; Jesus will rule with a rod of Iron and Revelation 2:26-27 the church saints will rule with a rod of Iron.

3. The Bible gave specific unconditional eternal promises to Israel the nation in the Abrahamic Covenant about the specific land of Israel Genesis 12-15 and in the Davidic Covenant about rulership position in the kingdom at the head of the nations Isaiah 1:2-4. And these covenants are eternal which means they will come to pass Genesis 12:15; 2 Samuel 7:13-16; 1 Chronicles 28:1-8; Romans 11:25-29. But the condition was repentance and obedience 1 Chronicles 28:7; Matthew 4:17. Israel rejected Christ Matthew 23:37-39 but the time of Jacob’s trouble in the tribulation they will accept him and the covenants will come to pass 2 Samuel 7:13-16; 1 Chronicles 28:1-8; Isaiah 66:7-9; Romans 11:25-29;

4. Of the Two witnesses we know Elijah will be one of them Malachi 4:5.
He will come before the great and dreadful day of the Lord. Malachi 4:5-6.


5. Jesus said, Elijah shall surely come and restore all things Matthew 17:11.
This is prophetic to right before the great and dreadful day of the Lord Malachi 4:5.
John the Baptist was in the Spirit Of Elijah and he was to bring the hearts of the Father to the children etc. Malachi 4:6; Luke 1:17.
However, you have to look at the law of proper perspective, not to mention that Jesus separated both Elijah’s Matthew 17:11-12.
The reason Jesus mentioned about John the Baptist is because he was a type of the real Elijah for he was in the Spirit of Elias Malachi 4:6; Luke 1:17.
Also, the KoH was offered Matthew 4:17; 10:6-7; 13 and to come to fruition, but we know that Israel rejected Christ Matthew 23:37:39 and it was prophesied they would
They missed the suffering Messiah who came to die for all mankind. Isaiah 53.
The church was foreordained to bring the Jew and Gentile into one body of Christ Ephesians 2:14-15; 3:3-6. This could not disannul Israel’s earthly calling which was eternal 2 Samuel 7:1-8; 1 Chronicles 28:13-16 anymore than Israel preventing the birth of the church and it’s heavenly calling Matthew 16:18.

6. Going back to Israel’s dna. If God knows each hair on our head he can surely know who are the real Jews in order to put them back in Israel.
I believe this will be a part of Elijah’s ministry to help restore all things.

7. Revelation 7, the servants who are Jewish are given a seal of protection that is said to be the tav or the sign of the cross.
These 144,000 Jews are preserved through the trumpets Revelation 9:4 and raptured as the manchild Revelation 12:5 and in Heaven as the firstfruits of unto God and the lamb who were redeemed from among men and from the earth Revelation 14:1-5.
So the 144,000 cannot be the remnant for they are left preserved on the earth Revelation 11:13; 12:17 when Christ comes back to earth at Armageddon otherwise they would not be the remnant. Revelation 12 shows the remnant preserved in the wilderness.
The 144,000 and those who sang the song of Moses and the lamb Revelation 15:1-2 prove that there will be real Jews in the tribulation and will be a part of the Jewish nation.

8. So though I think your information is a little flawed, and even if it was true, it is a mute issue with God.
All things are possible with God Matthew 19:26 and nothing is impossible with God Luke 1:37. Jerry Kelso

jerry kelso said:

6. Going back to Israel’s dna. If God knows each hair on our head he can surely know who are the real Jews in order to put them back in Israel.

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Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.


1Ti_1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.


Tit_3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

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jerry kelso said:

You are thinking with human logic. You can’t throw the rest of the scriptures out on the prophecies about literal Israel.

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My thinking and logic are irrelevant. I'm merely agreeing with the "Jewish" community, which understands genetic science and welcomes genetic proliferation. Since the "Jewish" community considers genetic proliferation a literal fulfillment of the Abrahamic promise, the dispensational community, which never sees a literal fulfillment that it doesn't love, is also in tacit agreement. It would of course never dare to acknowledge that agreement publicly, for to do so would irrevocably identify it as an implacable foe of the New Covenant's fulfillments found exclusively in Christ, and in those who belong to Christ, i.e. His Church.

Until the complete transcendence of the old covenant by the New Covenant (Hebrews 8:6, 8:13, 10:9) is understood and accepted, there will be no peace within the camp.

jgr said:

My thinking and logic are irrelevant. I'm merely agreeing with the "Jewish" community, which understands genetic science and welcomes genetic proliferation. Since the "Jewish" community considers genetic proliferation a literal fulfillment of the Abrahamic promise, the dispensational community, which never sees a literal fulfillment that it doesn't love, is also in tacit agreement. It would of course never dare to acknowledge that agreement publicly, for to do so would irrevocably identify it as an implacable foe of the New Covenant's fulfillments found exclusively in Christ, and in those who belong to Christ, i.e. His Church.

Until the complete transcendence of the old covenant by the New Covenant (Hebrews 8:6, 8:13, 10:9) is understood and accepted, there will be no peace within the camp.

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jgr,

1. I just gave you what the Bible says.
The Abrahamic Covenant and the Davidic Covenant concerning the land and the kingdom are eternal covenants and will happen just as the promises of God are true.

2. The Bible is to be understood as literal as possible. There are other passages that are symbolic that are not literal. The Holy Spirit was represented by a dove but was not a literal dove.
Even allegorical theology doesn’t spiritualize everything.

3. Jeremiah 31:31-34; Hebrews 8:7-13 have not been fulfilled for Israel because they rejected Christ.
The NC was ratified at the cross for all men at the cross. If you don’t believe in Israel’s eternal Covenants you don’t believe the Bible. Jerry kelso

jerry kelso said:

I just gave you what the Bible says.
The Abrahamic Covenant and the Davidic Covenant concerning the land and the kingdom are eternal covenants and will happen just as the promises of God are true.

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Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.


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Everett J Schulte said:

Btw, love the username "Wilco". That happens to be a talented band that I like.

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They are a good band.. but man their lead singer is a JERK!
Saw them last fall from the front row and he spent half the show chiding and derriding his audience, often refusing to play untill whoever he singled out in the crowd at the moment payed him proper homage.

I thought buying a $150 ticket to see a decent but standard, run of the mill band, would be homage enough, but i geuss not....

Rant over... carry on...

jerry kelso said:

2. Ezekiel 37 shows the regathering of the Jewish nation.

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All the prophecies about the dispersion and return of the Jews to their own land were fulfilled at the end the Babylonian Captivity in 457 B.C.,— not 1948 when the State of Israel was formed, or sometime in our future.

"In all your dwelling places the cities shall be laid waste, and the high places desolate . . . ye shall be scattered among the countries . . . among the nations whither they shall be carried captives . . . all the house of Israel shall remove and go into captivity . . . I will scatter them among the nations" (Ezekiel ch. 6–12).

This was the Diaspora. . . . And now the re-gathering of the Jews to their own land 70 years later:

"For thus saith the Lord, that after 70 years be accomplished at Babylon I will visit you . . . and I will turn away your captivity, and I will gather you from all the nations . . . and I will bring you again into the place whence I caused you to be carried away captive" (Jeremiah. 29: 10-14).

Not one single verse in the Old Testament, or New, written after the Babylonian Captivity mentions any other dispersion and re-gathering of the Jews from/to the geographic boundaries of earthly Israel. Not even ONE.

Jesus will be the ultimate and supreme ruler of the earth.

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Will be?
You believe some other entity besides Christ currently has power and dominion ABOVE Christ here on earth today?

You have to be kidding, right?

Here's the reality:
Satan was bound/judged/cast out by Christ's incarnational earthly ministry, reversing satan's dominion over the People of God, granting power over all darkness to the saints, and immediately enabling the gospel to spread to all nations.
(John 12:31 and Matt 12:28-29, Heb 2:14-15 and 1 John 3:8).

Matthew 28:18
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, ALL POWER is given unto me in heaven AND IN EARTH.

Revelation 1:5
...Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, AND THE PRINCE OF THE KINGS OF THE EARTH.

We, Christs Body, already rule and reign with Christ right now!!! It's a done deal. We are priests and Kings of a Kingdom that can never be conqured, ruling and reigning with our Lord for evermore.

He is the now ruling king:

"Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth" (Rev 1:5)

"Jesus Christ, who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, angels and authorities and powers being made subject to him" (1 Peter 3:22)

Jesus, the God-King, has chosen by his sovereign will to allow the wicked to continue along side the righteous in his kingdom: "The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field. But while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went away. But when the wheat sprouted and bore grain, then the tares became evident also. The slaves of the landowner came and said to him, `Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?' And he said to them, `An enemy has done this!' The slaves said to him, `Do you want us, then, to go and gather them up?' But he said, `No; for while you are gathering up the tares, you may uproot the wheat with them. `Allow both to grow together until the harvest; and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up; but gather the wheat into my barn. (Matt 13:24-30)

He his converting people out of the pagan world of unbelief and transferring them into his kingdom ("He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son" - Col 1:13). He is making these converts the salt and light of the world and the city on the hill--as man is intended to be. He is redeeming them.

Jesus has chosen to allow the present history of his kingdom to admit sinners, and to convert many of them from evil to good. But for sure, even in this permission, God is ruling over all kings and men (Daniel 4:25,34-35; Ps. 22:28; Dan 2:20-21).

jerry kelso said:

jgr,

1. I just gave you what the Bible says.
The Abrahamic Covenant and the Davidic Covenant concerning the land and the kingdom are eternal covenants and will happen just as the promises of God are true.

2. The Bible is to be understood as literal as possible. There are other passages that are symbolic that are not literal. The Holy Spirit was represented by a dove but was not a literal dove.
Even allegorical theology doesn’t spiritualize everything.

3. Jeremiah 31:31-34; Hebrews 8:7-13 have not been fulfilled for Israel because they rejected Christ.
The NC was ratified at the cross for all men at the cross. If you don’t believe in Israel’s eternal Covenants you don’t believe the Bible. Jerry kelso

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jerry,

If you cannot define "Israel", then you don't believe the Bible either.

Who are those who are included in the Covenant? What are their distinguishing characteristics? What are the criteria that God uses to identify them?

DNA cannot be a criterion. As you've said yourself previously, "God doesn't need DNA testing".

That leaves only two criteria: Faith and obedience. The only two that God has ever used.

jgr said:

jerry,

If you cannot define "Israel", then you don't believe the Bible either.

Who are those who are included in the Covenant? What are their distinguishing characteristics? What are the criteria that God uses to identify them?

DNA cannot be a criterion. As you've said yourself previously, "God doesn't need DNA testing".

That leaves only two criteria: Faith and obedience. The only two that God has ever used.

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jgr,

1. Israel has always been God’s chosen people who had unconditional eternal covenants that we’re promised to them.

2. The Church is the church and not the nation of Israel and never has been and never will be and you can’t prove it from scripture.

3. Calvary happened after the rejection of the Jews Matthew 23:37-39. This is when the KoH program ended with Israel. Jesus was saying this in essence Acts 1:6-7.
The Covenants Of Abraham and David concerning their land and the monarchy would be the Second Coming which is connected with the KoH reign.

4. Jesus died for all men at Calvary so everyone would be able to be saved.
Hebrews 9:15 says Jesus died for the transgressions of the first testament which was from the Antediluvian and the law keepers of Moses.
The blood of bulls and goats could not save at all or to the uttermost.
Hebrews 11:40 says more or less we had to be perfected with them.
The NC was going to come to pas whether Israel accepted Christ or not. However. it was prophesied they would only reject him.
If Israel would have accepted Jesus as a nation the KoH would have begun, but it didn’t and that is why the church is to make the nation Jealous for God.
In Jesus Day Israel was to repent as a whole nation for the KoH to start.

5. Romans 11:25-29; Jeremiah 31:31-34; and Hebrews 8:7-13 shows God will take Israel’s sin’s away got their gifts and callings are without repentance.

6. You cannot prove the spiritual Israel theory by scripture.
It is by faith and obedience that Israel will accept the New Covenant as a nation to receive their covenant blessings fulfilled.
Revelation 1:7 says they will look upon him who the they have pierced. Zechariah 13 shows repentance and the two sticks have to be united as one in Ezekiel 37.

7. I have to go but either you believe Israel’s eternal covenants are true or you don’t or else you think the KoH program is over with. Which is it? Jerry kelso

jerry kelso said:

The Church is the church and not the nation of Israel and never has been and never will be and you can’t prove it from scripture.

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Sure we can.

On the Day of Pentecost Peter addressed the crowd as "men of Judea", and then as "men of Israel", and in Acts 2:36 as "all the house of Israel".
On that day about 3,000 of "the house of Israel" accepted the New Covenant.

Christ commanded that the Gospel be taken to the house of Israel in Matthew 10:5-7.

Paul still considered himself an Israelite after his conversion in Romans 11:1.

James addressed his letter to "the twelve tribes".

In the text below Paul says that those who are a "new creation" are the Israel of God.

Gal 6:15 Certainly, it doesn't matter whether a person is circumcised or not. Rather, what matters is being a new creation.
Gal 6:16 Peace and mercy will come to rest on all those who conform to this principle. They are the Israel of God. (GW)


In Hebrews 8:6-13 we find the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34 fulfilled by Christ during the first century, and specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8.

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jerry kelso said:

It is by faith and obedience that Israel will accept the New Covenant as a nation to receive their covenant blessings fulfilled.

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jerry,

You still haven't answered the fundamental question.

Exactly who is this "Israel nation" that will accept the New Covenant?

Who are the individuals that will comprise this nation?
How do they come to be considered part of the nation?
What is/are the distinguishing characteristic(s) that qualify them to be part of the nation? DNA? Domicile? Citizenship? Religion? Culture? Facial features? Business practices?
What critera will God use to determine whether or not they qualify?

If you believe that those criteria are anything other than faith and obedience, then, to borrow your accusation, you don't believe the Bible.

And the New Covenant nation (1 Peter 2:9) has existed since the day of Pentecost, in the Church that Christ is building, from those of faith and obedience out of the whole earth, until He returns.

That is God's Own Holy Nation.

He knows no other nation.

BABerean2 said:

Sure we can.

On the Day of Pentecost Peter addressed the crowd as "men of Judea", and then as "men of Israel", and in Acts 2:36 as "all the house of Israel".
On that day about 3,000 of "the house of Israel" accepted the New Covenant.

Christ commanded that the Gospel be taken to the house of Israel in Matthew 10:5-7.

Paul still considered himself an Israelite after his conversion in Romans 11:1.

James addressed his letter to "the twelve tribes".

In the text below Paul says that those who are a "new creation" are the Israel of God.

Gal 6:15 Certainly, it doesn't matter whether a person is circumcised or not. Rather, what matters is being a new creation.
Gal 6:16 Peace and mercy will come to rest on all those who conform to this principle. They are the Israel of God. (GW)


In Hebrews 8:6-13 we find the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34 fulfilled by Christ during the first century, and specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8.

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baberean2,

1. Jews left over from Jesus ministry and they were the only ones who had a covenant which was the Old Covenant in Jesus days. The KoH and the KoG message Matthew 10:5-7 were taught by Jesus and not his death, burial, and resurrection Matthew 16:20-23.

2. Addressing Jews and as the House Of Israel doesn’t mean all the nation was saved.

3. Paul was an Israelite Romans11:1. He was concerned for his fellow brethren because he knew the Covenants and gifts and callings were eternal and God had not forgotten his chosen elect.

4. James addressed the twelve scattered tribes because they needed to know the New Covenant.

5. I have already proved that God was talking directly to the real ethnic Jew who is not just physical but spiritual.

6. Galataians 6:15:16; Jew and Gentiles availeth anything but a new creature is what is important.
And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be upon them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.
And as many walk....peace upon them and mercy seem to be one class.
And upon the Israel of God seems to be another class.
Some say that the Israel of God Jews would never use.
However, if it is talking about Gentiles doesn’t bother me as far as salvation. After all, we were strangers of the covenants of promise and aliens of the commonwealth of Israel having no hope and without God in the world. We were grafted into the olive tree which was Israel.
Isaiah 44:5 One shall say, I am the Lord’s and another shall call himself by the name of Jacob; and another shall subscribe with his hand unto the Lord, and surname himself by the name of Israel.
So the Gentiles can be called Israel of God based upon Isaiah 44:5; surname Israel.
But this in no way promotes that gentiles can be Israel the nation in history or future especially pertaining to the land of Israel and its gifts and callings of the monarchy of David where Christ will be supreme ruler and Israel will be at the Head of the Nations and administer the eternal feasts and many other things for the law will go forth out of Zion.

7. Jeremiah 31:31-34; Hebrews 8:7-13 was not fulfilled at the cross.
Why? Because the KoH program was rejected Matthew 23:37-39.
Acts 1:6-7 Christ reemphasizes the KoH program was temporarily over with.
Paul also left the Jews at the end of Acts 28 and went to the Gentiles. And of course they were punished at 70 A.D.
The Jews Covenants, gifts, and callings are tied into the millennial kingdom and they will repent as a nation then.
If Jeremiah and Hebrews would have been fulfilled the KoH reign would have started at the cross.

8. The church has a heavenly calling. They will be raptured. The Jews earthly calling has a Jewish remnant Revelation 11:13; 12:17.

9. 2 Corinthians 3:6-8; is about the church being made ministers of the NC and not the Old Covenant.
So your theology of spiritual Israel to the extreme is wrong. Jerry Kelso

jerry kelso said:

7. Jeremiah 31:31-34; Hebrews 8:7-13 was not fulfilled at the cross.

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Maybe you left out Hebrews 8:6, because it proves you are wrong.

The word "now" in Hebrews 8:6 proves that the New Covenant is "now" in effect.

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jgr said:

jerry,

You still haven't answered the fundamental question.

Exactly who is this "Israel nation" that will accept the New Covenant?

Who are the individuals that will comprise this nation?
How do they come to be considered part of the nation?
What is/are the distinguishing characteristic(s) that qualify them to be part of the nation? DNA? Domicile? Citizenship? Religion? Culture? Facial features? Business practices?
What critera will God use to determine whether or not they qualify?

If you believe that those criteria are anything other than faith and obedience, then, to borrow your accusation, you don't believe the Bible.

And the New Covenant nation (1 Peter 2:9) has existed since the day of Pentecost, in the Church that Christ is building, from those of faith and obedience out of the whole earth, until He returns.

That is God's Own Holy Nation.

He knows no other nation.

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jgr,

1. There has and is only been one nation of Israel from the Old Testament and is still here and will be in the time of Jacob’s trouble Matthew 24:21.

2. The Jews will be regathered in the tribulation. Both Judah and Israel will be the two sticks that will become one Ezekiel 37:16-28.

3. Ezekiel 37:21; God will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side and bring them into their own land.

4. Children of Israel from among the heathen.

5. Judah, the children of Israel, Joseph, Ephraim all the original Jews.

6. They have their history in verse in Ezekiel 37:23. Verse 24 has David being their King because he was promised the throne to be forever in his line 2 Samuel 7:1-8; 1 Chronicles 28:13-16.

7. The millennial kingdom will be a theocracy where Christ and the church age saints will rule throughout the kingdom with a rod of Iron.
Christ and Israel will be at the head of the nations Isaiah 2:2-4; 9:6-7; it was to be a government the first time and it will be the second time. It will be the Davidic throne and it’s government will increase forever. It will be established with judgement and justice.

8. The New Covenant will be in effect Hebrews 8:7-12 and it will be Jewish in nature because they will administer the eternal feasts Zechariah 14:16-19 and there will be sabbaths Colossians 2:16-17.
Nations will have to go up to Jerusalem to partipate in the feasts Zechariah 14:16-19.
There will be the civil some from the Old Covenant and some from the New Covenant.

9. The Jews will have olive skin and look just like the do now. We will look the same as well except we will have a glorified body that will never decay.

10. The Jews criteria to get into the KoH is repentance. There will be a Jewish believing remnant Revelation 11:13; 17 and the woman in the wilderness Revelation 12:12-17.

11. There are many other things that will happen such as people witnessing and everyday things that will happen in a full theocratic government.

12. Obedience will still be in the kingdom.
Faith for those who need to be saved.
In the kingdom the Jews won’t have to be taught for they will already know Hebrews 8:11.

13. 1 Peter 2:9; Peter is talking to Jewish believers in the church age.
Everyone in the KoH who are believers will be one nation.
That doesn’t change the rulership positions in the KoH.
Jerry Kelso

BABerean2 said:

Maybe you left out Hebrews 8:6, because it proves you are wrong.

The word "now" in Hebrews 8:6 proves that the New Covenant is "now" in effect.

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baberean2,

1. The NC came in at the cross and the NC is now and will always be the only covenant for salvation.

2. Your problem is you don’t understand or comprehend that all of Israel has to be saved and their salvation is tied into the KoH reign and the curse being lifted.
Just because Israel was the early church doesn’t mean they accepted the NC as a nation. If so the KoH reign would have begun then.
Go would have written in their minds and hearts his laws and he would be to them a God and they his people.
No one would have to teach every man his neighbor for all would know him from the greatest to the least. This has never happened to Israel. Israel today are mostly backslidden and haven’t got a clue.
You’re wrong again.
You believe there is no NC without the church or no one can be saved without the church. Today that is true for this is the church.
The church will be raptured and the HS will still convict and people will be saved. There is no scripture that says the present day church will go through the tribulation. Get understanding for a change. Jerry kelso

jerry kelso said:

4. Children of Israel from among the heathen.

5. Judah, the children of Israel, Joseph, Ephraim all the original Jews.

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jerry,

So that means based on their DNA pedigree. Correct?

You'll recall that God slew DNA pedigreed Israelites by the thousands during the exodus and thereafter when they rebelled and forsook Him. So DNA pedigree was not His criterion then.

Today, the "Jewish" community acknowledges, welcomes, and applauds the dispersal of their DNA pedigree throughout the whole human race. So DNA pedigree is not His criterion now.

There's just no getting away from what were, are, and always will be, His criteria.

Faith and obedience.

jerry kelso said:

. Your problem is you don’t understand or comprehend that all of Israel has to be saved and their salvation is tied into the KoH reign and the curse being lifted.

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Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Rom 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

Get a dictionary and look up the word "remnant".

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