Converting to Catholicism

SaNcTaMaRiA

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I can post plenty of videos of the nasty deaths that happened after the reformation. It goes without saying that there are things neither side is proud of.

We believe that Mary was born without original sin due to the merits of Jesus Christ. She was a sinless arc for Christ. These are talks a lot easier had in person.

I would always encourage you read the early fathers. Talk with a priest. Go to RCIA. Decide from there.

I will be praying for you. I was a protestant who found his way home. The journey can be long, but it is well worth it.
 
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mark kennedy

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I can post plenty of videos of the nasty deaths that happened after the reformation. It goes without saying that there are things neither side is proud of.

We believe that Mary was born without original sin due to the merits of Jesus Christ. She was a sinless arc for Christ. These are talks a lot easier had in person.

I would always encourage you read the early fathers. Talk with a priest. Go to RCIA. Decide from there.

I will be praying for you. I was a protestant who found his way home. The journey can be long, but it is well worth it.
I think I'm ready for at least a conversation with a priest, I'm willing to keep an open mind about Mary. Protestants and Catholics had some pretty bloody wars, there is plenty of blame to go around over that. I've actually read a fair amount of the early church fathers and with some reservations, I don't see a problem. Origen doesn't really impress me much but I can't say I've had any issues otherwise. I guess he seems a little too liberal for me but I suppose the differences between liberal and conservative have a long history. :)

Grace and peace,
Mark
 
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mark kennedy

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Praying for you man. Pray, hope, and do not worry!
I'm not worried brother and always glad to know someone is putting a good word in for me.

Grace and peace,
Mark
 
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Glaucus

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No Protestants should be in here trying to keep someone from converting to the Catholic Church. That might be the most gross way of breaking these forum rules that they seem to love to do.

Mark, God bless you on your journey. The Catholic Church offers infinitely more than Protestantism and you get to keep your intellectual integrity.
 
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SaNcTaMaRiA

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SaNcTaMaRiA's word is a good one!

I appreciate that my friend. I am always happy to pray for a brother and sister in Christ. We may not always agree on doctrine and dogma, but one thing we can always agree on is praying for each other! We gotta keep praying :)!
 
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Sanoy

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I spent about 6 months investigating whether I should be catholic. I found the main catholic forums were very helpful in that even though I ultimately chose against it. I am not really a Protestant either, I think that sort of either/or is unhelpful in describing a person's beliefs. I think we should all really be of the Berean church. Believing what is founded in scripture, reason and research guided by the Spirit, rather than choosing an umbrella to stand under. They all have holes in them, so l would say be a Catholic and a Protestant and neither at the same time.
 
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Glaucus

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I spent about 6 months investigating whether I should be catholic. I found the main catholic forums were very helpful in that. I ultimately chose against it. I am not really a Protestant either, I think that sort of either/or is unhelpful in describing a person's beliefs. I think we should all really be of the Berean church. Believing what is founded in scripture, reason and research guided by the Spirit, rather than choosing an umbrella to stand under. They all have holes in them, so l would say be a Catholic and a Protestant and neither at the same time.
The Bereans only searched the OT Scriptures to see if what they were being taught about the Messiah fit with who Jesus is. There was no NT to base their Christians beliefs on, and that isn't the context anyways, so no.
 
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Sanoy

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The Bereans only searched the OT Scriptures to see if what they were being taught about the Messiah fit with who Jesus is. There was no NT to base their Christians beliefs on, and that isn't the context anyways, so no.
I agree, but I am not using the term in the literal sense, but the metaphoric.
 
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mark kennedy

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SaNcTaMaRiA's word is a good one!
That was one of two prayers I knew as a child, the Lord's prayer I memorized from a little plastic bible with a magnifying glass I got out of a gum ball machine. Then there was the hail Mary, I wore the little medallion a nun gave me for years. I appreciate what your saying, guess it's just going to have to take some time.

Grace and peace,
Mark
 
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mark kennedy

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The Bereans only searched the OT Scriptures to see if what they were being taught about the Messiah fit with who Jesus is. There was no NT to base their Christians beliefs on, and that isn't the context anyways, so no.
They were among the Macedonian churches, the Philippians wrote Paul concerning questions they had about ministry. Paul's letter to them would have certainly been read in the Berean church, or at least they knew of it. I've always liked the fact that Paul thought them more noble because they searched the Scriptures. The only New Testament writings they might have had access to were the letter to Phillipi and Thessalonica, that I imagine was years after Paul had passed through.

What puzzles me is that they appear to have had a copy of the Septuagint, wonder where they got that.

Grace and peace,
Mark
 
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Charles in Ky

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Your covering a lot of ground with your questions, I'll do what I can here. I'm not sure what immaculate conception means, the Lord was and is God incarnate, nothing changes that. I will admit I struggle with devotions to Mary but I'm at least willing to keep an open mind. So I say a few hail Marys without being sure if she can hear it, I don't know, doesn't Rome leave room for doubting? At least for a layman you get a little wiggle room.

The Pope speaking 'ex Cathedra', I really haven't been exposed to enough of those to tell you whether or not I might have a problem. I remember the words of Luther shouting I cannot hold to the word of Popes and Councils because they contradict one another. I don't know, do they?

It's not what happened in school that bothered me, I learned a lot and loved those people. It's the traditions of Rome that are drawing me, I realize Popes speak to issues not addressed in Scripture, that sounds Pastoral to me. I liked John Paul and the two Pope that followed him and never really seen anything in their ministry that I object to.

I've been looking into Catholic doctrine and theology and I like what I see. Modernism is only part of my problem, I think the Protestant churches are losing their moorings.

Grace and peace,
Mark

Hi Mark, regarding the Catholic Church teachings on Mary, I posted a couple of links on this thread...

Pray the Rosary to get Graces - help please?

Please see Post Number 6 for those links. They may be of help.

God bless
 
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Tomm

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What's the worst thing that could happen, I might learn something and still decide against it.

Hello Mark, your decision should not be influenced by what bad things some Catholics are doing, but only based on which is the True Church. And the latter is very clear to you, I believe.
 
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Gnarwhal

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I don't know if this is likely for me but I'm seriously interested. I've looked into it a couple of times but I'm struggling with some issues. I know about Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults (RCIA) and I would be willing to take those classes even if I didn't actually decide to convert. I'm profoundly disturbed by what I've seen in the Protestant churches and have some serious issues with the Orthodox tradition. I'm not here to bash Protestants and Orthodox but I'm very interested in exploring this possibility, I like the traditions and catechism.

I was at one time big on justification by faith, only to find out it's what Christians have uniformly believed since the time of the Apostles. What is different is a single word, alone, which I think creates an unnatural separation between justification and sanctification. I'm serious about this and it's not the first time I've looked into it. Just curious what kind of advice I would get here.

Grace and peace,
Mark

I went through RCIA from October 2015 until I was Confirmed Easter of 2017; I was coming from having practiced protestant Christianity (C&MA, and then PCUSA) my entire life before then. I also spent about 2-3 years exploring Orthodoxy before realizing the Catholic Church. So, if you think there might be something I can answer or discuss, I'd be happy to.

If you don't mind me asking, what's disturbing you about protestantism? I read through some of your posts so I'm getting a clearer picture (i.e. protestantism is having a meltdown, I would agree there). I'm just curious if you'd like to continue expounding... I'm gently, but with urgency, trying to convert my family who are all still protestant but very sympathetic to Catholicism.
 
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chevyontheriver

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I really don't know how to track their tradition for one thing and the writings of the eastern church fathers just loses me. Their rituals seem rather odd and I'm not really adverse to it, just think the guy walking around with incense is kind of pointless. I've talked to Catholics and they seem pretty lucid, what I really like is they are rooted and grounded in a tradition that isn't subject to change. The Orthodox I can never really put my finger on what they are talking about, like I say, it just loses me.
I've spent a lot of time with the Fathers of the East and although they are a challenge to understand I do feel a real kinship with many of them. Several of them are considered by the Catholic Church to be Doctors of the Church. But Orthodoxy today is more inscrutable. Their frequent xenophobia and their history of caesaropapism make me content to stay Catholic. I hope and pray that they will open up to unity with Catholics, but I cannot hold my breath that long. By the way, my Catholic church does use incense from time to time, particularly the Sundays between Easter and Pentecost.
I've been browsing the Catechism, still haven't found anything I have a problem with. Protestantism on the other hand seems like it's having a meltdown, their work in exegetical studies and their great revivals are a credit to their history but it's waning. Those seminaries are turning into liberal arts and they seem disinterested in Pastoral ministry. Trying to get to the bottom of their theology is like chasing ghosts in the fog.
Good you have tuned into the CCC.

I think if you become Catholic, it must be because you find something of great value rather than a disappointment with Protestants. The disappointment is fine for a starting impetus but it needs to be replaced by something much more positive when you finally decide. I think you will get there though. And even if you do not become Catholic I do think the look-see will change you in a good way.
Look I really don't have a problem with the Orthodox churches, not really. It's just I don't think I can understand what it is their message and ministry is. Catholicism looks a lot more tenable.
That's good. Orthodoxy should appeal to a Catholic and Catholicism should appeal to an Orthodox. We really do need each other and belong together. If not yet, then in the not too distant future.

You will all of a sudden begin to hear about all sorts of horrible things about the Catholic Church. Friends will try hard to dissuade you from becoming Catholic. About half of those horrible things will be true, the other half fiction. Of the half that is true, half of that is simply inexcusable and nasty stuff, with the other half being amenable to a rational explanation. We can help you through it to separate the fables from the truth and provide perspective. We do have some painful history, starting out with Judas who betrayed the Lord. I suppose I could have started up my own house church as the only way to totally escape the sometimes painful history of Christians, but I think the folks at Westboro tried that and look where it landed them.

I will try to put together a list of people I consider touchstones for my own faith. There are, of course the Doctors of the Church, which you should avail yourself of. But my list is more contemporary, including some folks alive that you could even talk to. You don't have to like them to be Catholic, but I recommend them as they have helped me and I trust them.

So here is a beginning in no particular order (yet):
George Weigel -- biography of pope John Paul II
Avery Dulles -- excellent theologian
Jimmy Akin -- apologist 'Tiptoe thru TULIP'
John Paul II -- theology of the body and encyclicals
Benedict XVI -- books about Jesus
Bishop Robert Barron -- Catholicism series
Msgr. Charles Pope -- thoughtful articles
Fr. George Rutler -- dry and sage commentary
Archbishop Chaput -- pastoral teaching
Germain Grisez -- moral theology
Dr. Dawn Eden -- Theology of the Body
Dr. Ed Peters -- canon law go to guy
Rosalind Moss -- Hebrew Catholic
Al Kresta -- radio host former Protestant

There are so many more to add. These are folks who have helped steer me and who I trust. But I need to add about 50 more names to make it complete. I'm on the road tonight and my resources are mostly at home.

What else? How to find a great Catholic parish? Look for one which has perpetual adoration. For now you don't even have to know what that is, but later on you may want to. My experience is that such a parish is more dynamic than average. Look on masstimes.org to locate such a parish, or for that matter any parish and find a website for it.

And for Catholic books one of the best publishers out there is Ignatius Press.
 
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chevyontheriver

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Mark-

"Immaculate Conception" means that Mary was born perfect and without a human sin nature. SanctaMaria can tell me if I'm wrong about that.

I'm not criticizing that docrine or even saying whether or not I believe it. I'm just saying that is the Catholic teaching on the subject. It dates all the way back to 1854 as Catholic dogma.
You might want to consider that St Gregory Nazienzen knew all about it, saying Mary was 'prokathartheisa' and St Augustine knew all about it in terms of Mary never having sinned. The unique part that only came out in 1854 is the part about being protected from original sin, but the foundation was obvious from the 4th and 5th centuries, and it wasn't all that revolutionary even then. As a non-Catholic I doubt you knew the larger history, so you said "all the way back to 1854". You have to go back to Duns Scotus and then back farther to the Fathers. Please be cautious when you try to teach in the Catholic forum. It doesn't help to get it wrong.
 
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mark kennedy

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I went through RCIA from October 2015 until I was Confirmed Easter of 2017; I was coming from having practiced protestant Christianity (C&MA, and then PCUSA) my entire life before then. I also spent about 2-3 years exploring Orthodoxy before realizing the Catholic Church. So, if you think there might be something I can answer or discuss, I'd be happy to.

That's very interesting, I haven't really explored Orthodoxy much, it sounds kind of mystical. I realize it's perfectly permissible for a Christian to be a mystic many are, dark night of the soul and all that. It's just not something that interests me. They tend to be ethnically oriented which I think is a cultural thing. I'm rather curious though, what do you think are the main differences between Catholicism and Orthodox churches? They seem to have so much in common, what is it that keeps them so divided?

If you don't mind me asking, what's disturbing you about protestantism? I read through some of your posts so I'm getting a clearer picture (i.e. protestantism is having a meltdown, I would agree there). I'm just curious if you'd like to continue expounding... I'm gently, but with urgency, trying to convert my family who are all still protestant but very sympathetic to Catholicism.

Something called the emerging church and the text critical method is what finally did it for me. The secular world doesn't like miracles, in philosophical terms there is something the call the dialectic. So many of the German theologians took what was effectively atheism and put it in theological terms, Paul Tilich for example. You take miracles out of Christianity, particularly the historical books of the Old and New Testament and you have nothing. In short, I think Protestantism is turning into philosophical atheism, in theological terms.

I always liked the bible studies, that was always the appeal of Protestant churches. They have a rich history of encouraging Bible study and some of the teachers they fielded is astonishing. They have been a phenomenon, inextricably linked to the rise of democracy. Apart from some of the political Protestantism I've seen a thriving history, they have been great soul winners and their work in exegetical scholars should leave Rome envious. That said, I think they are giving way to the text critical philosophy that deprecates the Byzantine text in favor of two rather dubious but older text, the Codex Siniacus and Vaticanus. Now that's not just intellectual fodder, there is a drift into secular and naturalistic philosophy. Rome at least has it's sacred traditions and an unbending devotion to ecclesiastical authority. I realize Catholic scholars can be rather liberal, Jesuits obviously are. But what they cannot surrender is Roman Catholic tradition and I like the stability and consistency that offers. If you can sort that mess out let me say this part of the whole thing runs deep for me.

Protestantism is breeding heresy like baby dragons in the basement that are getting bigger. I think the old school Calvanists have retreated into their ivory towers and abandoned so many of the things that made them a vibrant and effective witness. They have some strange fondness for the German theologians who are philosophical atheists and given to naturalistic assumptions. Rome can't do that, they are inextricably linked to tradition and they have an impressive and incomparable ecclesiastical pedigree. I suppose I'll always identify with many of the tenants of evangelical Christianity but the drift into emotionalism and intellectual compromise is distressing to say the least.

Ok, I'm rambling, sorry to unload. I've just been thinking about this a long time and guess I have some baggage. Right now I'm not all that interested in cataloguing differences but what all believers have in common. Protestantism has made a very big deal out of justification by grace through faith, well guess what, Catholics believe that to. I'm waking up to something that has pressed on my mind for years, you can't have theological clarity if you abandon the traditions of the Church. I think that's best represented in the Roman Catholic Church and that's just where I'm at with it.

Grace and peace,
Mark
 
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mark kennedy

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Wow, you appear to be quite the scholar, glad to see that.
I've spent a lot of time with the Fathers of the East and although they are a challenge to understand I do feel a real kinship with many of them. Several of them are considered by the Catholic Church to be Doctors of the Church. But Orthodoxy today is more inscrutable. Their frequent xenophobia and their history of caesaropapism make me content to stay Catholic. I hope and pray that they will open up to unity with Catholics, but I cannot hold my breath that long. By the way, my Catholic church does use incense from time to time, particularly the Sundays between Easter and Pentecost.

Ok let me just say I have no real problem with incense, just seen a ritual once I thought was kind of bizarre. The Orthodox do tend to be a little ethnically oriented, I think that's kind of due to family and culture, I'm not all that worried about it. When you actually seriously look at the theological issues Rome has done some impressive work in doctrine, the Orthodox not as much. Protestantism started out pretty strong but it seems they are starting to drift and have been for a while.

Good you have tuned into the CCC.

I'm getting there, it's refreshing.

I think if you become Catholic, it must be because you find something of great value rather than a disappointment with Protestants. The disappointment is fine for a starting impetus but it needs to be replaced by something much more positive when you finally decide. I think you will get there though. And even if you do not become Catholic I do think the look-see will change you in a good way.

I don't see anything there that will hurt me, and many things that can help me. I have serious issues with Protestantism but that's not what is driving this. I'm looking for the Apostolic authority that authored the Gospels, no one did more along those lines then Rome. I don't know, maybe I'll change my mind and encounter some of the same things that soured me on Protestantism in the first place, we will see.

That's good. Orthodoxy should appeal to a Catholic and Catholicism should appeal to an Orthodox. We really do need each other and belong together. If not yet, then in the not too distant future.

For some reason the Orthodox and Catholics got along famously for a thousand years, then the Orthodox were excommunicated. I've always wondered how much of that was political and how much theological. I think Rome has kept the door open or at least tried to, time will tell. The excommunication has been removed so there is a chance they will go back to working out their differences and striving to find common ground.

You will all of a sudden begin to hear about all sorts of horrible things about the Catholic Church. Friends will try hard to dissuade you from becoming Catholic. About half of those horrible things will be true, the other half fiction. Of the half that is true, half of that is simply inexcusable and nasty stuff, with the other half being amenable to a rational explanation. We can help you through it to separate the fables from the truth and provide perspective. We do have some painful history, starting out with Judas who betrayed the Lord. I suppose I could have started up my own house church as the only way to totally escape the sometimes painful history of Christians, but I think the folks at Westboro tried that and look where it landed them.

Early on I looked into the Inquisition and Crusades, that's just one of those things your confronted with early and often. What I found was much of that was political and the Church really played a smaller role then the monarchs who were interested in sealing their authority. Christians Catholic, Protestant and otherwise have faced persecution, it kind of goes with the territory.

I will try to put together a list of people I consider touchstones for my own faith. There are, of course the Doctors of the Church, which you should avail yourself of. But my list is more contemporary, including some folks alive that you could even talk to. You don't have to like them to be Catholic, but I recommend them as they have helped me and I trust them.

So here is a beginning in no particular order (yet):
George Weigel -- biography of pope John Paul II
Avery Dulles -- excellent theologian
Jimmy Akin -- apologist 'Tiptoe thru TULIP'
John Paul II -- theology of the body and encyclicals
Benedict XVI -- books about Jesus
Bishop Robert Barron -- Catholicism series
Msgr. Charles Pope -- thoughtful articles
Fr. George Rutler -- dry and sage commentary
Archbishop Chaput -- pastoral teaching
Germain Grisez -- moral theology
Dr. Dawn Eden -- Theology of the Body
Dr. Ed Peters -- canon law go to guy
Rosalind Moss -- Hebrew Catholic
Al Kresta -- radio host former Protestant
I'll check it out.
There are so many more to add. These are folks who have helped steer me and who I trust. But I need to add about 50 more names to make it complete. I'm on the road tonight and my resources are mostly at home.

There's plenty of time, this is a marathon not a sprint.

What else? How to find a great Catholic parish? Look for one which has perpetual adoration. For now you don't even have to know what that is, but later on you may want to. My experience is that such a parish is more dynamic than average. Look on masstimes.org to locate such a parish, or for that matter any parish and find a website for it.

Guess I didn't give that a lot of thought but I'll keep it in mind.

And for Catholic books one of the best publishers out there is Ignatius Press.

It's been a while since I indulged in Catholic literature, I've always been kind of preoccupied with Biblical studies. Got my hands on something called Unfashionable Convictions once. More devotional then anything else but it had a very philosophical tint to it, a Catholic layman who was thinking about how faith interacts with practical matters. Other then that it's mostly been things related to the canon of Scripture.

Grace and peace,
Mark
 
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