Does God really avenge us when others do evil against us

angeltrue · Feb 21, 2018

Ronald said:
We cry, grieve, mourn, for a time and allow God's comfort to heal us. Focus on things above. This is a temporal realm and it and your life and the lives of others will pass and move on. Christians grieve differently than others for the loss of a loved one because they know they will see them again. Any Christian who dies is with the LORD and better off. Be happy for them because the passed on out of this miserable world, out of their pain and suffering.

Funny - that was exactly what my husband said. He said this world is misery and pain. I've certainly borne out that truth.

If you play with fire, you will get burned. People learn hard lessons in life -- sometimes it's better for that rape victim's life to be taken, to end her pain. Of course, this girl may have not been a Christian. In that case, she was punished and judged. What she went through is nothing compared to being thrown in the Lake of Fire.

Her music teacher was interviewed and she was a Christian. She kept a diary and she spoke of her struggle with her faith. I don't understand - why would God allow her to be born - a beautiful healthy child - only to reach being a teen and humiliated and murdered and thrown in the snow like trash. Where is God? Can we expect the same? Are God's promises of help meaningless? I have a Christian friend who skates by without all I've had. It feels so unfair.

CBD may help. Most pain is caused by inflammation. So there are natural cures for inflammation, like CBD or turmeric. There are foods that you eat that cause inflammation.
Paul was afflicted with something and asked God to remove it and He said no. He evidently thought he needed to suffer with it. Again, we look at Job's live and realize we don't have it too bad. Look at a person with no limbs or deaf and blind and we quickly realize that our condition is not so bad and stop complaining.

My husband bought me CBD but I didn't use it because Melissa Etheridge was arrested for having it for cancer pain. I do take things for inflammation. I know there are others worse off - but why even have such misery?

The lesson may not be for even that person, but for everyone around them who sees her perseverance. God tells us to persevere through the trials and tribulation.

angeltrue · Feb 21, 2018

I appreciate everyone's views. I feel like Job. I'm running a marathon and nothing makes sense. God doesn't make sense. I'm not sure I even want eternal life after He let me live through all this - I don't want hell but the other doesn't appeal to me either. What kind of God sits back and watches his people suffer? I don't want that kind of God. That's betrayal. It's as if all the promises are lies.

SolomonVII · Feb 22, 2018

What Jordan Peterson said on the subject, based on his practice of working with wrecked lives, is striking. Nobody gets away with anything.
You do something evil, you can be sure it is going to come back to bite you.

discipler7 · Feb 22, 2018

angeltrue said:
But why won't God act? Why? Why won't He just show me that she didn't get away with the evil she did?

.
Bad things would not have happen to you if you did not go back to the family of people who had sinned against you and kicked you out from the house when you were 17, and if you had not given your adult children's phone numbers to those sinners/evildoers.

Greedy and foolish people are often scammed by Ponzi schemes and Internet scams. God will not avenge greedy and foolish people.

PROVERBS has a lot of teachings from God against foolishness and sins/evil-deeds.

Sabertooth · Feb 22, 2018

angeltrue said:
I don't want that kind of God. That's betrayal. It's as if all the promises are lies.

God's sense of justice is even more intense than yours is. At the same time, He wants to rescue as many people as He can, when all of them are deserving of the kind of judgment that you are calling for.

Let Him decide how to best accomplish both of His objectives.

discipler7 · Feb 22, 2018

angeltrue said:
I feel like Job

.
Job was permissively punished by God for committing an ignorant sin against God, ie by making a vile sin offering to God just in case his spoiled sons might sin and cause him to lose all his hard-earned prosperity from having done good and shunned evil.(JOB.1:5 & 3:25)
....... 400 years after JOB, the Word of God at EXODUS.20:5 revealed that only the forefathers' sins/evil-deeds would befall on the sons, and not the other way round. Job was mistaken about his sons and feared/worried for nothing.

The Story of Job was not about God purposely sending terminal illnesses and calamities upon His people just to test their faith, ie whether they would curse God and die.(JOB.2:9). Only a cruel God would do that. Cf; DEUT.28, 1CORINTHIANS.11:30, 1JOHN.5:16-19.

SolomonVII · Feb 22, 2018

angeltrue said:
I appreciate everyone's views. I feel like Job. I'm running a marathon and nothing makes sense. God doesn't make sense. I'm not sure I even want eternal life after He let me live through all this - I don't want hell but the other doesn't appeal to me either. What kind of God sits back and watches his people suffer? I don't want that kind of God. That's betrayal. It's as if all the promises are lies.

If you do not sit back and watch people suffer without lifting a finger, that means that God isn't either.
through him with him in him.
But if you are the kind of person who does sit back indifferently, then you are that kind of god yourself.

discipler7 · Feb 22, 2018

.
The powerful US government, especially in the liberal Blue States, are beginning to persecute/prosecute Christians, eg bakers, florists, wedding planners, pizzaria owners, etc.

A day is coming soon when the powerful world's government will require everyone, including Christians, to receive the "mark of the beast", (computer chip implants.?) before they can buy or sell stuffs, eg to get their salary and do grocery shopping at Wallmart. Cf; REVELATION.13:11-18 & 14:9-11.

In this case, ROMANS.12:19-21 applies, ie the Lord/God Jesus Christ will return to earth to exact vengeance. (1THESSALONIANS.4:16, 2THESS.2:8, REV.6 & 7).

black.hawk · Feb 22, 2018

discipler7 said:
.
The powerful US government, especially in the liberal Blue States, are beginning to persecute/prosecute Christians, eg bakers, florists, wedding planners, pizzaria owners, etc.

A day is coming soon when the powerful world's government will require everyone, including Christians, to receive the "mark of the beast", (computer chip implants.?) before they can buy or sell stuffs, eg to get their salary and do grocery shopping at Wallmart. Cf; REVELATION.13:11-18 & 14:9-11.

In this case, ROMANS.12:19-21 applies, ie the Lord/God Jesus Christ will return to earth to exact vengeance. (1THESSALONIANS.4:16, 2THESS.2:8, REV.6 & 7).

Sorry, but I never said this; as I was simply quoting a comment by somebody else.

Bible Highlighter · Feb 22, 2018

angeltrue said:
I appreciate everyone's views. I feel like Job. I'm running a marathon and nothing makes sense. God doesn't make sense. I'm not sure I even want eternal life after He let me live through all this - I don't want hell but the other doesn't appeal to me either. What kind of God sits back and watches his people suffer? I don't want that kind of God. That's betrayal. It's as if all the promises are lies.

Please watch these 2 videos.

Part 1:

Part 2:

Bible Highlighter · Feb 22, 2018

black.hawk said:
As regarding the alleged "persecution" of Christians you have provided no evidence to support this.

A sister needs answers and help. I don’t believe this the place for debate.

Ronald · Feb 22, 2018

angeltrue said:
I appreciate everyone's views. I feel like Job. I'm running a marathon and nothing makes sense. God doesn't make sense. I'm not sure I even want eternal life after He let me live through all this - I don't want hell but the other doesn't appeal to me either. What kind of God sits back and watches his people suffer? I don't want that kind of God. That's betrayal. It's as if all the promises are lies.

He won't give you more than you can handle!

You are 61, came all this way and you are still hanging in there. We need to persevere and run the race with all its peaks and valleys.
Have you ever read Pilgrims Progress? Go pick it up. Also have you spoken to your Pastor or do you even have one? This is where Church brothers and sisters surround you, pray with you and encourage you. If you are a loner and stopped going to church, that would explain part of it. If you don't have friends, that doesn't help either.
A coal positioned away from the other coals will burn out. They need to be close to keep the fire going.
You need personal pray,
counsel from your Pastor
and encouragement from friends.
Our words on line aren't enough.

My Pastor told a story of a man who was in the pit of despondency, so depressed he couldn't get out of it. Pastor Zac told him to go and memorize the Sermon on the Mount and when you have it, come see me.
Well the man did and it took him a week or so, then he reported back and said that while he was focused on the task, his depression lessened to the point that he forgot what he was depressed about. He found peace was healed.
Of course a physical ailment is different, but at least your attitude will change. The Word is alive and has power to heal and change lives.
One last thing. I read a book a long time ago written by a psychoanalyst, Scott Peck, called The Road Less Traveled. While being interviewed, he was asked, "If you were so depressed, even to the point of suicide, what would you do? He said, "I would go out and help somebody, then after that, I would find someone else to help again and again until I got the focus off myself."
You see, when all we do is spend time focusing on ourselves, its easy to get depressed or become discontent. That's really a fundamental truth. Self focus for whatever reason will lead to sadness. We need to focus on Jesus and love and serve others. I think that is the key to getting off this treadmill.

Thomas1987 · Feb 22, 2018

angeltrue said:
This is something I've struggled with. I've seen people do great evil due to their selfishness and jealousy. Have you seen God avenge as Scripture says? How have you handled this?

He does not avenge now because we are in grace period but he will avenge starting from tribulation and he will avenge after 1000 year kingdom when He will judge at White Throne Judgement

Sam91 · Feb 22, 2018

angeltrue said:
I appreciate everyone's views. I feel like Job. I'm running a marathon and nothing makes sense. God doesn't make sense. I'm not sure I even want eternal life after He let me live through all this - I don't want hell but the other doesn't appeal to me either. What kind of God sits back and watches his people suffer? I don't want that kind of God. That's betrayal. It's as if all the promises are lies.

Hi, I haven't read the thread yet. I am sorry that you went through whatever has hurt you so much.

I just want to say that our suffering on this Earth is so brief compared to an eternity. We have the strength to overcome living inside us as Christians and the power of indescribable peace and joy, even while sad when sat obediently under the loving care of our Father. <3

S.O.J.I.A. · Feb 22, 2018

the sword of vengeance has been given to the governing bodies as far as the hand of man is concerned.

this does not mean we can't take measures to protect ourselves from harm.

black.hawk · Feb 23, 2018

Ronald said:
Of course He does, in this life and/or at Judgment Day.
The Holy Spirit is the Restrainer of Evil. God allows evil for a purpose. We don't always see His purpose immediately. Sometimes it takes years before we see. We look back at our lives and see how evil led to lessons to learn. These are that we appreciate what good is. Without evil, we would not really know God's attributes, the fruit of the Spirit, we wouldn't understand. Mercy, forgiveness, faith, hope, peace and even love would not be understood without experiencing evil. Life would be bliss, la te da. Some children for a a while are sheltered from evil, protected, and this sheltering is actually harmful to them because they get spoiled and don't realize what they have. No parent can shelter them forever or even from their own faults and evil.
Vengeance is Mine, says the Lord!
A neighbor coveted my wife and when I was away, got intimate with her. When I returned, she gave this story of wanting to separate. Confused, I said, let's go see a counselor and keep it together. Two weeks later, a friend told me to open up my eyes, your wife is making it with Big John. The nights she claimed she was over her girlfriends house, she was in fact with him, two doors away. I looked for her car -- it was parked on the other street -- Gotcha. I chased her down that morning and ended it. Our marriage was over. Actually, the apparent evil relieved me of the burden I had with this women who was also into drugs and couldn't control her drinking either. It was like a burden lifted, it was easy to say good-bye, because I no longer had to worry about her. This fling of hers was just that and she tried to get back with me, but it was too late. Two years later, at the young age of 38, Big John died of stomach cancer. God works in mysterious ways and uses evil for a purpose and sometimes it leads to good. In her case, she went into a downward spiral for many years and learned some hard lessons, but lived.

God allows evil for a purpose?

God uses evil for a purpose?

[However, good and evil are said to be mutually exclusive.]

As much as it is interesting, I would like you to provide evidence based on Scripture to support this - That God allows evil for a purpose; that God also uses evil for a purpose.

Ronald · Feb 23, 2018

black.hawk said:
That God would never give you more than you can handle sounds interesting, but what is your evidence based on Scripture to support this?

1 Cor. 10:13

Ronald · Feb 23, 2018

black.hawk said:
God allows evil for a purpose?

God uses evil for a purpose?

[However, good and evil are said to be mutually exclusive.]

As much as it is interesting, I would like you to provide evidence based on Scripture to support this - That God allows evil for a purpose; that God also uses evil for a purpose.

*Isaiah 45:7 KJV
“I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I, the Lord, do all these things.”

Some versions use calamity, disaster, woe, trouble and so by creating evil means He prepares it.

God put the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil in the Garden. He also allowed Satan in the Garden to tempt Adam and Eve. He knew what would happen. That confirms that it was His plan and necessary for man to know evil – otherwise he would not understand good and btw He wouldn't be sovereign if He was not in control of everything. If He didn’t intend evil to exist in the Garden, He wouldn’t have put the Tree or Satan in there.

*Romans 8:28 NASB
“And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.”

He causes all things (good and evil) to work together for good – for Christians. That means He has a purpose, a lesson sometimes involving punishment or even death. Since death is not the end for the Christian, but the end of evil, then that is a good thing.

*John 16:33 (NASB)
“These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace. In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world.”

We have peace in Him but suffer in the world. And His plan was to overcome the world and so His purpose is perfect, allowing evil in the world, subjecting us to it, but at the same time He’s in control. And we experience faith, hope, mercy, forgiveness, healing and perseverance because of the calamities, troubles, disasters and trials in life.

Here are examples of God preparing evil:

*Habakkuk 1:5-11 (NASB)
“Look among the nations! Observe!
Be astonished! Wonder!
Because I am doing something in your days—
You would not believe if you were told.
For behold, I am raising up the Chaldeans,
That fierce and impetuous people
Who march throughout the earth
To seize dwelling places which are not theirs.

They are dreaded and feared;
Their justice and authority originate with themselves.
Their horses are swifter than leopards
And keener than wolves in the evening.
Their horsemen come galloping,
Their horsemen come from afar;
They fly like an eagle swooping down to devour.
All of them come for violence.
Their horde of faces moves forward.
They collect captives like sand.
They mock at kings
And rulers are a laughing matter to them.
They laugh at every fortress
And heap up rubble to capture it.
Then they will sweep through like the wind and pass on.
But they will be held guilty,
They whose strength is their god.”

God prepared evil to happen to Joseph. We all know the story that ended well.

*Genesis 50:19-21(NASB)
But Joseph said to them, “Do not be afraid, for am I in God’s place? 20 As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good in order to bring about this present result, to preserve many people alive. So therefore, do not be afraid; I will provide for you and your little ones.” So he comforted them and spoke kindly to them.

Oh and btw, do you think Jesus suffered from evil. Was He sinned against, tortured and crucified? Wasn't that evil? Crucifixion is the most horrible death. And then prior to that being whipped with his flesh shredded. That was horrible_ but was purposed for the good or mankind.

Sabertooth · Feb 23, 2018

black.hawk said:
Based on Scripture, please provide evidence to support this.

You seem to draw a 'distinction' between the offender and the sin/evil itself; but where in the Bible does it say that a person can be 'separated' from their sin?

Since, whatever you say must be supported by the authority of Scripture; otherwise, it has no authority whatsoever.

My whole Scriptural argument can be found HERE (if you consider the offender in the first person, rather than the third).

FireDragon76 · Feb 25, 2018

~Anastasia~ said:
God does command us to forgive. Most directly, in teaching us to pray, Jesus tells us to pray "Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us" and if that wasn't plain enough, He then says plainly that we must forgive if we want to be forgiven, and that if we do not forgive others, God will not forgive us.

HOWEVER ... yes, I realize it is difficult and may be complex, especially with deep wounds. We cannot simply say "I forgive" and poof - it's done - in such cases. Depending on the situation it can actually take years (sometimes many years) of working through to reach this point. And it's also possible to have forgiven, then something else pricks the wound and stirs up those issues again, and we have a little more spiritual work to do maybe.

It's not that God demands perfection from us. As long as we DESIRE to forgive, and are making an effort to do so, I think that is what Christ had in mind. Such a heart is open to receiving the grace of God.

What we must not do is hold our unforgiveness close to our heart, nurturing it, feeding it, allowing bitterness to take hold. I've seen people do that. Such a heart is not open to the grace of God, and is in terrible spiritual peril.

Reconciliation (as in restoring interaction) is a different matter than forgiveness. Some people are simply toxic, or emotionally dangerous, or abusive, or what have you. It's important that we work to let go of that bitter desire that wished them harm to "pay for" whatever harm they do us, but that does NOT mean we have to welcome them like a snake into our bosom and give them another chance to poison us. It might be possible in some cases to reconcile. But not always. We must be wise as well. We are told to live in peace with all men -- as far as it is up to us. But there are at least two people in every equation and sometimes the other person won't allow peace, reconciliation, or aren't safe for us.

I'm not sure what you mean about being complicit in oppression or that anger at injustice is pride. I think you've misunderstood me.

If someone shoulders past me in a crowd and gets a better view, or pulls into a parking space i had my eye on, or somebody gets an award I thought I deserved instead - something along those lines, and anger rises up in me as a result - that is nothing but pride. The indignant anger at my "rights" being violated, me not being given my "proper and due place". The proper response to that kind of offense is to immediately forgive the offender, and I really need to think about what my anger says about my spiritual state and look towards humility.

I'm not saying it's pride to be upset if a con man steals the livelihood of a low-income widow or some other case where real injustice has been done, if that's how you understood my post..

I don't think preaching its necessary for an abused person to forgive, in order to be saved, is at all compatible with my own religion's understanding of soteriology or ethics. It's one thing to forgive somebody that takes your parking space, its another to tell someone who has been the victim of some horrible crime "you'll better forgive, or else God won't save you".

Does God really avenge us when others do evil against us

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