Forgiveness

faroukfarouk · Feb 21, 2018

Sam91 said:
It's not a fixation. Its a flight or fight response. I trust in God and it goes away but I was scared for my life for a while (maybe ungroundedly) so I get a feeling still where i feel like I am suffocated. I prayed for healing a couple of weeks ago then he resurfaced. Now this feeling that I need to reforgive.

Some concentrated thoughts can indeed be well founded in reality and acutely; but then the ultimate spiritual reality is the Person and Work of the Lord Jesus. Easy to say, maybe, but by God's grace it's good to work on this supreme perspective.

PeaceJoyLove · Feb 21, 2018

Sam91 said:
So someone is partially repentant, says sorry but denies their criminal acts towards you, tries to manipulate and is still actively trying to cause difficulties by messaging deceased partners relatives, and unforgiveness creeps in.

Is forgiveness still obligatory?
Is it enough to at least try to not be bitter and not wish the person any ill?
Is it okay to aim to forgive in future?

I was advised by pastor to avoid communication with this person April last year. Have not replied since May. I could forgive at first but am no longer able to with each successive communication attempt or plot. This person now lives a few hundred miles away.

EDIT
I have forgiven the original acts. It is the continued attempts to cause trouble that I can't forgive and the communications since.

Jesus hanging on a cross asked His Father to forgive those who crucified Him for not knowing what they were doing... they were fulfilling God's will just as much...the plan God purposed in Himself from the beginning...

Sam91 · Feb 21, 2018

PeaceJoyLove said:
Jesus hanging on a cross asked His Father to forgive those who crucified Him for not knowing what they were doing... they were fulfilling God's will just as much...the plan God purposed in Himself from the beginning...

Yes, exactly!

I have thanked the Lord for raising the issue and asked for help in bringing my heart into alignment with what He wills and has shown to be right.

He will heal and I think this is about needing Him and that I need to rely on Him in this area as well as every area in life. God is Good, and Perfect. He knows and is the Way and Will guide us right. He is so Faithful and True and Excellent and His ways are unchanging and Everlasting. How great is our God!?!

GirdYourLoins · Feb 21, 2018

Sam91 said:
So someone is partially repentant, says sorry but denies their criminal acts towards you, tries to manipulate and is still actively trying to cause difficulties by messaging deceased partners relatives, and unforgiveness creeps in.

Is forgiveness still obligatory?
Is it enough to at least try to not be bitter and not wish the person any ill?
Is it okay to aim to forgive in future?

I was advised by pastor to avoid communication with this person April last year. Have not replied since May. I could forgive at first but am no longer able to with each successive communication attempt or plot. This person now lives a few hundred miles away.

EDIT
I have forgiven the original acts. It is the continued attempts to cause trouble that I can't forgive and the communications since.

Two things I need to say here.

First, if they are denying what they did and actively trying to manipulate and cause problems I do not think they are genuinely repentant, partially or not. I believe they only said sorry to say what you wanted to hear. Their actions do not show repentance.It is best to not stay in contact with people like that.

Second, forgiveness starts with a choice to forgive. As I have matured as a Christian I have understood that forgiveness is not having no bad feelings about a person, it is not treating them as if they have done something wrong. Do not confuse feeling angry with someone when they do something wrong with being unforgiving.

What I tend to say these days is that your choice is to hold on to or to let go of unforgiveness and give it to God. I find that by looking at it as holding onto unforgiveness, a negative act, rather then giving forgiveness it is easier for me to make that choice and start the process

dreadnought · Feb 21, 2018

Sam91 said:
So someone is partially repentant, says sorry but denies their criminal acts towards you, tries to manipulate and is still actively trying to cause difficulties by messaging deceased partners relatives, and unforgiveness creeps in.

Is forgiveness still obligatory?
Is it enough to at least try to not be bitter and not wish the person any ill?
Is it okay to aim to forgive in future?

I was advised by pastor to avoid communication with this person April last year. Have not replied since May. I could forgive at first but am no longer able to with each successive communication attempt or plot. This person now lives a few hundred miles away.

EDIT
I have forgiven the original acts. It is the continued attempts to cause trouble that I can't forgive and the communications since.

When someone repents of their sin, I think it is our responsibility to forgive them. If they are still sinning against us, I think we find ourselves protecting ourselves from them, and with good reason.

Sam91 · Feb 21, 2018

dreadnought said:
When someone repents of their sin, I think it is our responsibility to forgive them. If they are still sinning against us, I think we find ourselves protecting ourselves from them, and with good reason.

It isn't true repentence, it is manipulation. Unfortunately, at this moment in time, he isn't capable. I hope the Lord can heal him. (Progress, I can finally see from that perspective again. Wanting him healed for his own sake. Praise God!) But raking over it isn't going to help me reach full forgiveness.

Soul-searching · Feb 21, 2018

Sam91 said:
Yeah, @Soul-searching I just want him to leave me alone. I was traumatised and feel safe now he is far away. I forgave that and prayed fervently for him but I keep stumbling over the forgive us as we forgive others the last few days. (I guess I have been unforgiving since November) I don't know if it is because I am unable to say in my heart before God that he is forgiven (too dangerous to be in contact) or if it is me creating that potential stumbling block in my prayers. That nagging doubt has been growing from nothing a couple days ago to something I need to know now.

What would God say?

I'm sure God would say that he is proud of you!. How beautiful it is that you want to forgive someone who treats you bad. What you are doing is hard, and not many can do it purely. But you want to, badly, maybe it says more than the actual forgiveness, and it says a lot about your character. Small steps, don't take it for granted and think it doesn't count what you are doing now, everything is a process, things take time, it does not mean you do things wrong. Don't be so hard on yourself.

Sam91 · Feb 21, 2018

GirdYourLoins said:
Two things I need to say here.

First, if they are denying what they did and actively trying to manipulate and cause problems I do not think they are genuinely repentant, partially or not. I believe they only said sorry to say what you wanted to hear. Their actions do not show repentance.It is best to not stay in contact with people like that.

Second, forgiveness starts with a choice to forgive. As I have matured as a Christian I have understood that forgiveness is not having no bad feelings about a person, it is not treating them as if they have done something wrong. Do not confuse feeling angry with someone when they do something wrong with being unforgiving.

What I tend to say these days is that your choice is to hold on to or to let go of unforgiveness and give it to God. I find that by looking at it as holding onto unforgiveness, a negative act, rather then giving forgiveness it is easier for me to make that choice and start the process

I agree. I am in a better place now forgiveness wise but I need the Lord's help to solidify that.

dreadnought · Feb 21, 2018

Sam91 said:
It isn't true repentence, it is manipulation. Unfortunately, at this moment in time, he isn't capable. I hope the Lord can heal him. (Progress, I can finally see from that perspective again. Wanting him healed for his own sake. Praise God!) But raking over it isn't going to help me reach full forgiveness.

I wouldn't rake over it, but if this person is causing you misery, you have the right to defend yourself.

Sam91 · Feb 21, 2018

Soul-searching said:
I'm sure God would say that he is proud of you!. How beautiful it is that you want to forgive someone who treats you bad. What you are doing is hard, and not many can do it purely. But you want to, badly, maybe it says more than the actual forgiveness, and it says a lot about your character. Small steps, don't take it for granted and think it doesn't count what you are doing now, everything is a process, things take time, it does not mean you do things wrong. Don't be so hard on yourself.

Thank you for the encouragement. I think feeling convicted while praying a couple of times this week has a lot to do with it. I am glad that this issue arose. Growth in our walk happens when we feel the effects of receiving peace again when trusting in our Heavenly Father. He leads us right. Everyone who posted had something useful to contribute for starting the process towards true forgiveness and healing too.

Sam91 · Feb 21, 2018

dreadnought said:
I wouldn't rake over it, but if this person is causing you misery, you have the right to defend yourself.

Thankfully the people he messaged have not taken his words to heart. One ended up feeling better toward me than before. I was told that yesterday. Others defended me in messages back to him. I do not know most of what has gone on as I didn't want to know and it has only been mentined tactfully a couple of times. I found though that the forwarded message caused the most stress. I do have a Christian friend praying about this, so that might have had a lot to do with how it hasn't been the storm I evisioned about two to three weeks ago

She sent me Psalm 118. It was perfect. My defense atm is to not respond or react and there is physical distance now too. I do not know if there is a legal route for the harassment, it is spaced out. I shall concentrate on one step at a time. Forgiveness first as my walk with the Lord is most important. I need Him to light the way.

Buzz_B · Feb 21, 2018

Sam91 said:
So someone is partially repentant, says sorry but denies their criminal acts towards you, tries to manipulate and is still actively trying to cause difficulties by messaging deceased partners relatives, and unforgiveness creeps in.

Is forgiveness still obligatory?
Is it enough to at least try to not be bitter and not wish the person any ill?
Is it okay to aim to forgive in future?

I was advised by pastor to avoid communication with this person April last year. Have not replied since May. I could forgive at first but am no longer able to with each successive communication attempt or plot. This person now lives a few hundred miles away.

EDIT
I have forgiven the original acts. It is the continued attempts to cause trouble that I can't forgive and the communications since.

In it's most basic sense, all forging another really means is to leave off any desire to issue retribution of your own will and desire and let God own the problem for you. Love can be shown in that you do not pay back in kind. Or that if you saw them hungry you would have compassion and feed them. That shows you still value them as one God wishes to have repent and restored. Love need not always involve strong sentimental emotions. Love can even include disciplinary actions by those who have the God given authority to issue those actions. A little kindness despite another persons offenses goes a long way toward helping them to become ashamed and repent. That makes God smile.

Even among our family or christian family if we would do only that much, the rest eventually takes care of itself.

Doug Melven · Feb 21, 2018

Sam91 said:
What would God say?

God would say
Romans
12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
12:20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.

Heaping coals of fire would be to make him ashamed of doing this bad stuff to you.
Another thing you can do is to see this person as God sees him.
One of God's creations on his way to hell.
Assuming you would not wish hell on this person, show them God's love.
That can only be done by God's power.

dqhall · Feb 21, 2018

Sam91 said:
So someone is partially repentant, says sorry but denies their criminal acts towards you, tries to manipulate and is still actively trying to cause difficulties by messaging deceased partners relatives, and unforgiveness creeps in.

Is forgiveness still obligatory?
Is it enough to at least try to not be bitter and not wish the person any ill?
Is it okay to aim to forgive in future?

I was advised by pastor to avoid communication with this person April last year. Have not replied since May. I could forgive at first but am no longer able to with each successive communication attempt or plot. This person now lives a few hundred miles away.

EDIT
I have forgiven the original acts. It is the continued attempts to cause trouble that I can't forgive and the communications since.

I think you have been at least partially delivered from your adversary as the person is far away. It would not seem wise to try to restore communication with the person seeking to harm you.

Once I had bad neighbors who hated me. They insulted me loudly. One night my car was damaged. I decided I should move. I prayed for weeks about where to move to. I found a new neighborhood and have not regretted moving. I did not attempt to retaliate and remembered God would forgive them if they ever repented. Most of the time I do not think about them as all communication with them ceased. I have not returned to that street since.

Zoii · Feb 21, 2018

Sam91 said:
So someone is partially repentant, says sorry but denies their criminal acts towards you, tries to manipulate and is still actively trying to cause difficulties by messaging deceased partners relatives, and unforgiveness creeps in.

Is forgiveness still obligatory?
Is it enough to at least try to not be bitter and not wish the person any ill?
Is it okay to aim to forgive in future?

I was advised by pastor to avoid communication with this person April last year. Have not replied since May. I could forgive at first but am no longer able to with each successive communication attempt or plot. This person now lives a few hundred miles away.

EDIT
I have forgiven the original acts. It is the continued attempts to cause trouble that I can't forgive and the communications since.

IMO its up to the perpetrator to seek forgiveness. Its up to you to try not to let it rule your life. Theres no way i would demand that anyone has to forgive a crime against them.

Monna · Feb 22, 2018

Sam91 said:
This is indeed my problem. It is while saying the Lords prayer, which for some reason has been very tempting to say while praying. I don't say it often. How can I go about this forgiveness. My heart won't do it. My mind is lying when I say I forgive. How did you do it?

Do you remember when the four friends brought the lame man to Jesus - the ones who had to open the roof and let him down on a stretcher people were so crowded around Jesus? Jesus got into trouble with the Pharisees and scribes because he said to the lame man "your sins are forgiven." They said "only God can forgive sins." Actually, they were right. We do not have the authority to forgive sins - we can only seek to pass on God's forgiveness. Notice that Jesus in this story did not say "I forgive your sins" or "Your sins are forgiven by me." Nor did he say to the soldiers crucifying him " Guys, I forgive you, you don't have any idea what you're doing, or who you're doing it to." He prayed to his Father "Father, forgive them..."

God invites us to participate in his forgiveness, praying for others, praying that we will forgive in our hearts, as He has already forgiven. He wants us to see others as He sees them, to forgive as He forgives ... and we can only do that if we open our hearts to His transformative power to change us - partly through understanding just how much He has forgiven us, and thereafter want to share that forgivenss with others.

He warned us that we would be attacked and maligned, misunderstood and mistreated. This automatically puts us in a situation where we would be exposed to a lot of reason to be resentful, bitter, vengeful - and just therefore we need to open ourselves to His resources of forgiveness and look to him for partnership in this.

I noticed, Sam, that you wrote later that you have found the key you were looking for. Keep on keeping on! And God bless.

frater_domus · Feb 22, 2018

We ought to forgive, no matter what, so that we are forgiven by God. However, we often mistake forgiveness with reconciliation, which is not part of the deal.
Forgiveness means not holding ill will against the person for what he has done. This is mostly so that evil thoughts can not hold you captive and influence you and you can be at peace. Think about Homer’s Iliad. Achilles only found peace in forgiveness.

However, we are not commanded to forget, and for good reason. It is foolish to make oneself an easy target to exploit and we need to be on out guard. Jesus commanded the apostles to be innocent as doves, yes, but also wise as serpents. The bible often tells us to disassociate from certain people.
Forgiveness also does not mean not taking action. If someone murders a relative, you ought to forgive, but it is also right to take legal action, so that others will not be hurt and maybe even the person will come to repentance because of the punishment. If we are clear from hate and unforgiveness, we can take just actions. If we are blinded by unforgiveness, we may blow things out of proportion and give opportunity to the devil by either taking revenge ourselves or pleading for death penalty or similar.

Finally, reconciliation can only happen when you have forgiven, the other person has repented and there is a mutual agreement. Forgiveness is just the first step.

Andrew77 · Feb 22, 2018

Sam91 said:
So someone is partially repentant, says sorry but denies their criminal acts towards you, tries to manipulate and is still actively trying to cause difficulties by messaging deceased partners relatives, and unforgiveness creeps in.

Is forgiveness still obligatory?
Is it enough to at least try to not be bitter and not wish the person any ill?
Is it okay to aim to forgive in future?

I was advised by pastor to avoid communication with this person April last year. Have not replied since May. I could forgive at first but am no longer able to with each successive communication attempt or plot. This person now lives a few hundred miles away.

EDIT
I have forgiven the original acts. It is the continued attempts to cause trouble that I can't forgive and the communications since.

The short answer is yes. Remember the Lord's prayer? The prayer we're all supposed to pray?

Our Father in heaven,
help us to honor
your name.
Come and set up
your kingdom,
so that everyone on earth
will obey you,
as you are obeyed
in heaven.
Give us our food for today.
Forgive us for doing wrong,
as we forgive others.
Keep us from being tempted
and protect us from evil.

Pretty standard prayer of all Christianity. That doesn't leave a lot of room for "Forgive us for doing wrong, while we forgive others... unless they really suck."

If you need it more bluntly.... Matthew 6:14-15 is even more brutal.

"For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."

I don't know about you, but that scares the snot out of me. Quite frankly, I think it should scare the snot out of every Christian alive. We must forgive. It's not an option. It's not "unless they are really being bad".

I think all you need to do is compare the trouble you are facing, with the trouble G-d protects you from. I'll take a bothersome person, over punishment in eternity, any day. In fact, it gets pretty easy the more you weight out the differences.

Now assuming we can establish this and move on....

I agree with your pastor. You need to completely block 100%, this person out of your life. That means use the block function on your phone. Use the block on facebook, or whatever else you have that they are attempting to communicate through.

When other people bring up that so-and-so said....you just tell them straight up that you have nothing to do with them, and are not interested in hearing about them.

That's all you do. Beyond that, let it go.

Sam91 · Feb 22, 2018

Andrew77 said:
The short answer is yes. Remember the Lord's prayer? The prayer we're all supposed to pray?

Our Father in heaven,
help us to honor
your name.
Come and set up
your kingdom,
so that everyone on earth
will obey you,
as you are obeyed
in heaven.
Give us our food for today.
Forgive us for doing wrong,
as we forgive others.
Keep us from being tempted
and protect us from evil.

Pretty standard prayer of all Christianity. That doesn't leave a lot of room for "Forgive us for doing wrong, while we forgive others... unless they really suck."

If you need it more bluntly.... Matthew 6:14-15 is even more brutal.

"For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."

I don't know about you, but that scares the snot out of me. Quite frankly, I think it should scare the snot out of every Christian alive. We must forgive. It's not an option. It's not "unless they are really being bad".

I think all you need to do is compare the trouble you are facing, with the trouble G-d protects you from. I'll take a bothersome person, over punishment in eternity, any day. In fact, it gets pretty easy the more you weight out the differences.

Now assuming we can establish this and move on....

I agree with your pastor. You need to completely block 100%, this person out of your life. That means use the block function on your phone. Use the block on facebook, or whatever else you have that they are attempting to communicate through.

When other people bring up that so-and-so said....you just tell them straight up that you have nothing to do with them, and are not interested in hearing about them.

That's all you do. Beyond that, let it go.

Yeah he is blocked and each new phone number used too... i think. I am unsure about whether I blocked the latest.

I agree about forgiveness, that is what was bothering me. The help I received yesterday was useful in helping me ask the Lord to enable me to do it. Praise Him!

lastofall · Feb 22, 2018

[for me anyway] we must refer to God's standard of forgiveness, seeing that only what He tells us is what counts and matter, and nothing what we think counts or matters:

"For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more." (Hebrews 8:12)

"For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses." (Matthew 6:14-15)

(Matthew 18:21-35) ending in "So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses."

"And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses. But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses." (Mark 11:25-26)

"..forgive and ye shall be forgiven." (Luke 6:37)

God deals with us according to the law of equity (fairness) so that we are without excuse.

Forgiveness

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