Samuel's mistake anointing Saul to be King

Lik3 · Feb 11, 2018

1 Samuel 9:1-3
There was a Benjamite, a man of standing, whose name was Kish son of Abiel, the son of Zeror, the son of Bekorath, the son of Aphiah of Benjamin.
2 Kish had a son named Saul, as handsome a young man as could be found anywhere in Israel, and he was a head taller than anyone else. 3 Now the donkeys belonging to Saul’s father Kish were lost, and Kish said to his son Saul, “Take one of the servants with you and go and look for the donkeys.”

1 Samuel 10:1-7
Then Samuel took a flask of olive oil and poured it on Saul’s head and kissed him, saying, “Has not the Lord anointed you ruler over his inheritance?[a] 2 When you leave me today, you will meet two men near Rachel’s tomb, at Zelzah on the border of Benjamin. They will say to you, ‘The donkeys you set out to look for have been found. And now your father has stopped thinking about them and is worried about you. He is asking, “What shall I do about my son?”’3 “Then you will go on from there until you reach the great tree of Tabor. Three men going up to worship God at Bethel will meet you there. One will be carrying three young goats, another three loaves of bread, and another a skin of wine. 4 They will greet you and offer you two loaves of bread, which you will accept from them.5 “After that you will go to Gibeah of God, where there is a Philistine outpost. As you approach the town, you will meet a procession of prophets coming down from the high place with lyres, timbrels, pipes and harps being played before them, and they will be prophesying. 6 The Spirit of the Lord will come powerfully upon you, and you will prophesy with them; and you will be changed into a different person. 7 Once these signs are fulfilled, do whatever your hand finds to do, for God is with you.

1 Samuel 15:10-16
10 Then the word of the Lord came to Samuel: 11 “I regret that I have made Saul king, because he has turned away from me and has not carried out my instructions.” Samuel was angry, and he cried out to the Lord all that night.
12 Early in the morning Samuel got up and went to meet Saul, but he was told, “Saul has gone to Carmel. There he has set up a monument in his own honor and has turned and gone on down to Gilgal.”13 When Samuel reached him, Saul said, “The Lord bless you! I have carried out the Lord’s instructions.”14 But Samuel said, “What then is this bleating of sheep in my ears? What is this lowing of cattle that I hear?”15 Saul answered, “The soldiers brought them from the Amalekites; they spared the best of the sheep and cattle to sacrifice to the Lord your God, but we totally destroyed the rest.”16 “Enough!” Samuel said to Saul. “Let me tell you what the Lord said to me last night.”“Tell me,” Saul replied.

Did Samuel reject God's warning about making Saul King? An evil spirit was sent upon Saul and an even stronger evil spirit was later sent upon Saul. He became a murderous, jealous king who later sought a sorceress. Sorcerers and sorceresses are among those who are put to death for their sorceries and their disobedience to the Lord. Why did Samuel anoint Saul? Was it just human error or was it that Samuel failed to listen to the Lord as far as anointing the wrong man to become King? Was Saul's looks the reason why he was anointed and thus chosen by the people?

Halbhh · Feb 11, 2018

The people demanded a king, and the Lord chose Saul. It's quite a story altogether, and you have to read all of it from the beggining to get the answers you'd like. That's many full chapters. Best is to read from chapter 1 through, so you get so much more. Yes you could start at chapter 8, but then you'd not have some part of what you'd need to help get the whole picture. Even if i wanted only to learn of Saul, it helps to be aware of the big picture situation with the Philistines and also how God had to replace priests, prophets. The full picture settles so many questions. We can see that people can disobey and then get replaced. But it's better than me just saying so to read and learn that in the more full way.

brinny · Feb 11, 2018

Halbhh said:
The people demanded a king, and the Lord chose Saul. It's quite a story altogether, and you have to read all of it from the beggining to get the answers you'd like. That's many full chapters. Best is to read from chapter 1 through, so you get so much more.

I agree. That's spot on Halbhh :oldthumbsup:

brinny · Feb 11, 2018

Lik3 said:
1 Samuel 9:1-3
There was a Benjamite, a man of standing, whose name was Kish son of Abiel, the son of Zeror, the son of Bekorath, the son of Aphiah of Benjamin.
2 Kish had a son named Saul, as handsome a young man as could be found anywhere in Israel, and he was a head taller than anyone else. 3 Now the donkeys belonging to Saul’s father Kish were lost, and Kish said to his son Saul, “Take one of the servants with you and go and look for the donkeys.”

1 Samuel 10:1-7
Then Samuel took a flask of olive oil and poured it on Saul’s head and kissed him, saying, “Has not the Lord anointed you ruler over his inheritance?[a] 2 When you leave me today, you will meet two men near Rachel’s tomb, at Zelzah on the border of Benjamin. They will say to you, ‘The donkeys you set out to look for have been found. And now your father has stopped thinking about them and is worried about you. He is asking, “What shall I do about my son?”’3 “Then you will go on from there until you reach the great tree of Tabor. Three men going up to worship God at Bethel will meet you there. One will be carrying three young goats, another three loaves of bread, and another a skin of wine. 4 They will greet you and offer you two loaves of bread, which you will accept from them.5 “After that you will go to Gibeah of God, where there is a Philistine outpost. As you approach the town, you will meet a procession of prophets coming down from the high place with lyres, timbrels, pipes and harps being played before them, and they will be prophesying. 6 The Spirit of the Lord will come powerfully upon you, and you will prophesy with them; and you will be changed into a different person. 7 Once these signs are fulfilled, do whatever your hand finds to do, for God is with you.

1 Samuel 15:10-16
10 Then the word of the Lord came to Samuel: 11 “I regret that I have made Saul king, because he has turned away from me and has not carried out my instructions.” Samuel was angry, and he cried out to the Lord all that night.
12 Early in the morning Samuel got up and went to meet Saul, but he was told, “Saul has gone to Carmel. There he has set up a monument in his own honor and has turned and gone on down to Gilgal.”13 When Samuel reached him, Saul said, “The Lord bless you! I have carried out the Lord’s instructions.”14 But Samuel said, “What then is this bleating of sheep in my ears? What is this lowing of cattle that I hear?”15 Saul answered, “The soldiers brought them from the Amalekites; they spared the best of the sheep and cattle to sacrifice to the Lord your God, but we totally destroyed the rest.”16 “Enough!” Samuel said to Saul. “Let me tell you what the Lord said to me last night.”“Tell me,” Saul replied.

Did Samuel reject God's warning about making Saul King? An evil spirit was sent upon Saul and an even stronger evil spirit was later sent upon Saul. He became a murderous, jealous king who later sought a sorceress. Sorcerers and sorceresses are among those who are put to death for their sorceries and their disobedience to the Lord. Why did Samuel anoint Saul? Was it just human error or was it that Samuel failed to listen to the Lord as far as anointing the wrong man to become King? Was Saul's looks the reason why he was anointed and thus chosen by the people?

God TOLD Samuel to give the people what they demanded (they rejected the living God as their King). Samuel followed what God said.

A_Thinker · Feb 11, 2018

Halbhh said:
The people demanded a king, and the Lord chose Saul. It's quite a story altogether, and you have to read all of it from the beggining to get the answers you'd like. That's many full chapters. Best is to read from chapter 1 through, so you get so much more. Yes you could start at chapter 8, but then you'd not have what you'd need to help get the whole picture. Even if i wanted only to learn of Saul, it helps to be aware of the big picture situation with the Philistines and also how God had to replace priests, prophets. The full picture settles so many questions.

Yes, God gave Israel what they wanted, after warning them against it

Saul was an object lesson ...

brinny · Feb 11, 2018

A_Thinker said:
Yes, God gave Israel what they wanted, after warning them against it

Saul was an object lesson ...

An excellent summary. Thank you for sharing your insight. :oldthumbsup:

mnorian · Feb 14, 2018

Mod hat on

this thread has been moved from
Deeper Fellowship
to
Christian Scriptures
for a better fit.
Carry on.

mathinspiration · Feb 14, 2018

At the time, Saul was a good choice but he became corrupted by greed and power.

Francis Drake · Feb 14, 2018

Samuel made no mistake whatsoever in making Saul king.

Samuel was instructed to warn the people that they were engaged in an act of rebellion against His rulership.

1Sam8v6But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the LORD. 7And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.

When Christians can't be bothered to seek the Lord for themselves, they also demand to be led by their own king, just like Israel.
They might call him "Pastor" or "Minister" or "Vicar" etc, but he is still their ruling king and they have rejected God's reign over them.

Andy centek · Feb 14, 2018

Lik3 said:
1 Samuel 9:1-3
There was a Benjamite, a man of standing, whose name was Kish son of Abiel, the son of Zeror, the son of Bekorath, the son of Aphiah of Benjamin.
2 Kish had a son named Saul, as handsome a young man as could be found anywhere in Israel, and he was a head taller than anyone else. 3 Now the donkeys belonging to Saul’s father Kish were lost, and Kish said to his son Saul, “Take one of the servants with you and go and look for the donkeys.”

1 Samuel 10:1-7
Then Samuel took a flask of olive oil and poured it on Saul’s head and kissed him, saying, “Has not the Lord anointed you ruler over his inheritance?[a] 2 When you leave me today, you will meet two men near Rachel’s tomb, at Zelzah on the border of Benjamin. They will say to you, ‘The donkeys you set out to look for have been found. And now your father has stopped thinking about them and is worried about you. He is asking, “What shall I do about my son?”’3 “Then you will go on from there until you reach the great tree of Tabor. Three men going up to worship God at Bethel will meet you there. One will be carrying three young goats, another three loaves of bread, and another a skin of wine. 4 They will greet you and offer you two loaves of bread, which you will accept from them.5 “After that you will go to Gibeah of God, where there is a Philistine outpost. As you approach the town, you will meet a procession of prophets coming down from the high place with lyres, timbrels, pipes and harps being played before them, and they will be prophesying. 6 The Spirit of the Lord will come powerfully upon you, and you will prophesy with them; and you will be changed into a different person. 7 Once these signs are fulfilled, do whatever your hand finds to do, for God is with you.

1 Samuel 15:10-16
10 Then the word of the Lord came to Samuel: 11 “I regret that I have made Saul king, because he has turned away from me and has not carried out my instructions.” Samuel was angry, and he cried out to the Lord all that night.
12 Early in the morning Samuel got up and went to meet Saul, but he was told, “Saul has gone to Carmel. There he has set up a monument in his own honor and has turned and gone on down to Gilgal.”13 When Samuel reached him, Saul said, “The Lord bless you! I have carried out the Lord’s instructions.”14 But Samuel said, “What then is this bleating of sheep in my ears? What is this lowing of cattle that I hear?”15 Saul answered, “The soldiers brought them from the Amalekites; they spared the best of the sheep and cattle to sacrifice to the Lord your God, but we totally destroyed the rest.”16 “Enough!” Samuel said to Saul. “Let me tell you what the Lord said to me last night.”“Tell me,” Saul replied.

Did Samuel reject God's warning about making Saul King? An evil spirit was sent upon Saul and an even stronger evil spirit was later sent upon Saul. He became a murderous, jealous king who later sought a sorceress. Sorcerers and sorceresses are among those who are put to death for their sorceries and their disobedience to the Lord. Why did Samuel anoint Saul? Was it just human error or was it that Samuel failed to listen to the Lord as far as anointing the wrong man to become King? Was Saul's looks the reason why he was anointed and thus chosen by the people?

Yekcidmij · Feb 20, 2018

There's something of a tension in the text. In 1 Samuel, the people demand a king which is seen as a negative. But in Judges, the text presents the pre-monarchical era as chaotic and implies a king was needed:

Judg 17:6 In those days there was no king in Israel; every man did what was right in his own eyes.
Judg 18:1 In those days there was no king of Israel
Judg 19:1 Now it came about in those days, when there was no king in Israel,
Judg 21:25 In those days there was no king in Israel; everyone did what was right in his own eyes.

Doug Melven · Feb 21, 2018

Yekcidmij said:
There's something of a tension in the text. In 1 Samuel, the people demand a king which is seen as a negative. But in Judges, the text presents the pre-monarchical era as chaotic and implies a king was needed:

Judg 17:6 In those days there was no king in Israel; every man did what was right in his own eyes.
Judg 18:1 In those days there was no king of Israel
Judg 19:1 Now it came about in those days, when there was no king in Israel,
Judg 21:25 In those days there was no king in Israel; everyone did what was right in his own eyes.

God was supposed to be there King. If He had been King, they would not have had so many problems.

Yekcidmij · Feb 21, 2018

Doug Melven said:
God was supposed to be there King. If He had been King, they would not have had so many problems.

Right, that's what's found in 1 Sam. But, in Judges it seems to read as if things were chaotic because they didn't have a king, and everyone did what was right in their own eyes.

Doug Melven · Feb 21, 2018

Yekcidmij said:
Right, that's what's found in 1 Sam. But, in Judges it seems to read as if things were chaotic because they didn't have a king, and everyone did what was right in their own eyes.

This is why things got chaotic.
Judges 2:8 And Joshua, the son of Nun, the servant of the LORD, died, being an hundred and ten years old.
2:9 And they buried him in the border of his inheritance in Timnathheres, in the mount of Ephraim, on the north side of the hill Gaash.
2:10 And also all that generation were gathered unto their fathers: and there arose another generation after them, which knew not the LORD, nor yet the works which he had done for Israel.
2:11 And the children of Israel did evil in the sight of the LORD, and served Baalim:
2:12 And they forsook the LORD God of their fathers, which brought them out of the land of Egypt, and followed other gods, of the gods of the people that were round about them, and bowed themselves unto them, and provoked the LORD to anger.

ToBeLoved · Feb 21, 2018

Francis Drake said:
When Christians can't be bothered to seek the Lord for themselves, they also demand to be led by their own king, just like Israel.
They might call him "Pastor" or "Minister" or "Vicar" etc, but he is still their ruling king and they have rejected God's reign over them.

There is a difference between rejecting God and His will as Israel did and what you are talking about.

I would call this an idol, maybe. But it is not an outright rejection of God as you have claimed.

Doug Melven · Feb 21, 2018

Francis Drake said:
They might call him "Pastor" or "Minister" or "Vicar" etc, but he is still their ruling king and they have rejected God's reign over them.

Not the same thing as God gave us pastors and ministers.
Ephesians 4:11 And He gave Apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers
Romans 12:7 Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering

God also gave the people judges, some were good and dome were not.

Francis Drake · Feb 22, 2018

ToBeLoved said:
There is a difference between rejecting God and His will as Israel did and what you are talking about.

I would call this an idol, maybe. But it is not an outright rejection of God as you have claimed.

I didn't say it was a rejection of God, I said it was a rejection of God's reign over them.
God's will is that we listen to his spirit and be led that way through life.
These people believe in God, but have no faith in God's ability to speak and direct them personally. Instead, they look to their pastor/kings to rule and direct their paths.
So yes, their leaders could be regarded as idols in their lives.

Francis Drake · Feb 22, 2018

Doug Melven said:
Not the same thing as God gave us pastors and ministers.
Ephesians 4:11 And He gave Apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers
Romans 12:7 Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering

The fivefold ministries you list were never given to the body of Christ as rulers. Jesus made that very clear to James and John when they asked for two thrones. They are supposed to be servants of the body, that's what minister means.
I have heard it ad nauseam, "Our pastor has such a servant heart". Then they relate that if anyone else wants to present anything to the congregation, they have to go and ask permission from the pastor!
If you have to ask a servant for permission, then he is your master, not your servant.

Christian leaders are our kings for exactly the same reason that Israel demanded a king. People are too lazy to seek God for themselves, they want someone to do it for them, and they will happily pay him for doing it.

Doug Melven · Feb 22, 2018

Francis Drake said:
The fivefold ministries you list were never given to the body of Christ as rulers. Jesus made that very clear to James and John when they asked for two thrones. They are supposed to be servants of the body, that's what minister means.
I have heard it ad nauseam, "Our pastor has such a servant heart". Then they relate that if anyone else wants to present anything to the congregation, they have to go and ask permission from the pastor!
If you have to ask a servant for permission, then he is your master, not your servant.

Christian leaders are our kings for exactly the same reason that Israel demanded a king. People are too lazy to seek God for themselves, they want someone to do it for them, and they will happily pay him for doing it.

The pastor is there to protect the flock.
If I have a doctrine/teaching that I would like to present to the congregation I talk to my pastor about it first.
He is the one with the God given mission to lead the local church. And anything that is presented to the congregation he should know about beforehand.
My pastor would never consider himself to be a master, nor would any of our congregation.
I was at a prayer meeting last night and he was there and we were on the topic of praying for our church.
And I was praying that when he gave the message on Sundays that people would check out what he was telling them and not just accept it, but verify it in the Word. He had absolutely no problem with this. A pastor who is a ruler would not like that type of prayer.

You should also remember God gave Israel judges. In Romans 12:7-8 we see he gives leaders.

ToBeLoved · Feb 25, 2018

Money, food, children and many things can be idols in people’s lives.

I just find it odd that you call this out and act like it is in rebellion specifically against God. People are at different levels spiritually and this to me is more like ‘be like I am’ type of thing.

One persons idol could be sexuality or sexual sin, food, money ect but this post reads to me like be like you are.

And seems focused on one idol type or sin where as we all sin and have our idol type struggles.

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