Hi
@Jason0047, I don't have the time right now to answer all of your objections.
Understood. Sometimes I get busy, too.
You said:
I can only tell you that your mentality is that you are trying to think of verses or passages that contradict what the author is saying and that instead you should try to comprehend the nuances of scripture that give us understanding as we seek in our minds to reconcile apparent contradictions.
This is not my first rodeo involving the "sin and still be saved" type belief that appears to deny Eternal Security. For he said that if we seek to obey God so as to be saved in any way, the law will condemn him as a sinner. I have argued against a "sin and still be saved" type belief for many years now with God's Word. So this is nothing new for me, my friend.
But I will tell you why I am not open to what this author is pushing.
#1. The article goes against God's basic morality or goodness.
For to say that God can saves us even when we willfully sin is a violation of basic morality. If such were the case, then why doesn't God just save all people who do evil against Him? Does a belief alone in God really make somebody more morally superior? Wouldn't God have to agree with a person's sin in order to forgive them and allow them entrance into Heaven?
#2. The article goes against what Scripture plainly says.
Many times the author rips verses out of context in favor of trying to push a "sin and still be saved" type belief that is simply not there in God's Word. I mean, what do you make of verses like: "Well done good and faithful servant, enter thou into the joy of thy Lord"? (Matthew 25:21).
You said:
We are not saved by grace through faith + works (Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4:1-8) but rather we are saved by grace through faith, and that not of ourselves; it is the gift of God: not of works lest any man should boast.
Ephesians 2:8-9 and Romans 4:1-8 is talking about "Initial Salvation" and or "Ultimate Salvation." They are not talking about "Continued Salvation" or "Sanctification." Ephesians 2:1 says Christ has quickened us. This is a one time event. Ephesians 3:17 says that Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith. This is talking about receiving Jesus. Romans 4 talks about a faith that is filled with action. "...who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham," (Romans 4:12). "For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world,
was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. (Romans 4:13). But how did Abraham receive the promise? Was it in doing nothing? No. We learn in Genesis 22:12, God says, "now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only
son from me." This plays into verse 18, when God gives Abraham the promise when He says, "And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice." (Genesis 22:18). Abraham was willing to sacrifice his only son by God's command (Which then led to him receiving the promise). This is the kind of faith being talked about in Romans 4.
Anyways, Scripture is clear that we are saved by Sanctification.
For 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says,
"But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:"
In fact, After We are Saved by God's Grace,
Works Are Also Required As a Part of the Salvation Process:
(Here are a List of Verses):
“Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24).
"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.” (James 2:17-18).
"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).
"If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, "(1 Timothy 6:3-4).
"...God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble." (James 4:6).
"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? (Romans 6:1-2).
"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." (Hebrews 5:9).
"Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14).
"If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha." (1 Corinthians 16:22).
"If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15).
“Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.” (Matthew 5:8).
"Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls." (James 1:21).
"But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God." (Romans 2:8-11).
"For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." (John 3:20).
“For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.” (Romans 11:21-22).
"...but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matthew 19:17).
“Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” (Philippians 2:12).
“...And having become servants of God, ye have your fruit unto holiness and the end, everlasting life.” (Romans 6:22).
“In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:10).
You said:
Any genuine faith produces good works so that if works are lacking faith is questionable.
So you believe works are necessary for salvation then, too?
I mean, I get it. I used to once believe that we are not saved by works, but yet I also contradicted myself by saying that works are necessary to show a true faith. I said the same thing (Which is a contradiction). Then one day, it dawned on me. A person cannot be saved in being an axe murdering rapist, etc. God's grace doesn't cover things like that. Sin is separation from God. You break God's commandments and you show what kingdom you really are from. 1 John 3:8 says he that commits sin is of the devil.
You said:
But the change in heart is not produced by anything we do, but through faith in Jesus Christ.
This sounds like a contradiction. You said:
(a) Change of heart is nothing we do.
(b) Change of heart is in having faith in Jesus Christ.
Now, okay, I realize that we cannot be spiritually regenerated or receive a new heart spiritually without having faith in Jesus Christ as our Savior, but you did have to take action to call upon the name of the Lord to save you. In other words, it is synergistic. We take the first step in faith, and God then regenerates and or changes our heart. It is not exclusively one or the other.
You said:
Because our heart is changed through faith alone, saving faith is never alone, except in such cases as the thief on the cross, and even there, there was a confession of faith which might be construed as a work.
Indeed.
You said:
And if works do save, then the work in us that might save is the work of God, which is to believe on Him whom He sent. So if salvation is the change of heart that makes us righteous, I cannot save myself by giving to the poor or some other such thing. Thus salvation is by grace through faith alone apart from works, which produces works by which we will be justified in the sight of man.
We are not saved by anything we do, but we are saved by the work God does. This would be God's work both in Justification (by our having faith in what Christ has done for us and asking Him to save us) and in Sanctification (by the good work the Lord does through our lives).
For Jesus says in John 15:5, we can do nothing without Him.
As for your phrase that we are not saved by giving to the poor:
Well, this is true in and of itself alone. Actors and rich people give to the poor. Giving to the poor alone is not grounds for salvation. But we as believers in Christ have to give to the poor in this life; If we don't, then Christ will cast us into everlasting fire (See Matthew 25:31-46). The warning is all too clear in Matthew 25 for those who want to see it.
You said:
But I fear that I may be casting my pearls before swine (Matthew 7:6) as is the case with this document before
@Jason0047.
This is really a serious insult that only applies to unbelieving Gentiles like atheists, etc.
In Matthew 7:6, Jesus says,
"Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you."
"For without
are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie." (Revelation 22:15).
Again, it is against forum rules to insult another poster. Seeing you are new here, I thought I should let you know the rules. For if you continue to do this with other posters, there is a chance they will report you and you can rack up points and get banned here at Christian Forums (of which I sincerely hope that does not happen). While I may disagree with your belief strongly, I do care for you deeply in Christ Jesus.
