Are we mixed with giants or angels ?

mmksparbud said:

Doesn't say that--it says we are His adopted children and will get eternal life. The eternal life is given to us now--but we do not posses it until the resurrection when we are changed.

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before you said we had eternal life right now.

We become sons of God as soon as we accept Jesus--we are His then. We are adopted into the family of God--His adopted children. We do not wait for the resurrection, we are His now--we are changed into immortality in order to be granted eternal life and life in His presence at the resurrection--but we have been bought with a heavy price and are His NOW.

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if we become sons of the Most High right now, then we are equal to angels and will not die.
Luke 20:36
for they cannot die anymore, because they are equal to angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.

but we do not posses it until the resurrection when we are changed.

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how do we change? if we are ,as believers, already sons of the Most High then what do we change to?

sparbud thank you for the good conversation. i gotta get some sleep. will be happy to discuss more 2morow.
praise His name!
have a good evening

jaybird88 said:

there were already men in their town, they wanted the men with lot, what made them different?
something your missing in the 2 Peter passage:

4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment; 5 if he did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly;

the angels Peter is talking about were in the days of Noah, He did not spare them but He spared Noah.
what other angels would he be talking about, there are none.

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Maybe it's something you're missing. That these were depraved men. That is why God destroyed that whole area. What made them different--they were unknown--and they were most likely, very good to look at--God doesn't make junk--they were probably "hunks." You ever been to a rock concert? People literally throwing themselves--men, women, old, young at these sometimes downright homely guys. I mean, seriously---women and guys lusting after Mick Jagger and Keith Richards is something I've never understood---I thought they were very homely. And good grief-have you seen how they've aged?! Mercy!

OK---what translation you using? Just wondering--in verse 5, some say AND some say IF--either way
(2Pe 2:4 KJV) For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
(2Pe 2:5 KJV) And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
(2Pe 2:6 KJV) And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

Why are you running those 2 thoughts together? God did not spare the angels when they fell (Lucifer and his cohorts) and/if he did not spare the old world--Two different thoughts here. they are not run together under one incident. Peter is not talking about the angels with Noah. And then destroying Sodom---all 3 are examples of the fact that God does not make exceptions. He will deal with these "certain evil men" that Peter is talking about also. All are examples so these men do not think they will not escape the punishment of God. This whole thing has been not about the examples, but about the men that Peter is talking about. And ends with:

2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

jaybird88 said:

before you said we had eternal life right now.

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jaybird88 said:

if we become sons of the Most High right now, then we are equal to angels and will not die.
Luke 20:36
for they cannot die anymore, because they are equal to angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.

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Good night.

Yes--we are promised eternal life right now--that is why Jesus calls death sleep--when we awaken--we will be changed and clothed in immortality. We do not die--we sleep.

Joh 11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
Joh 11:12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
Joh 11:13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
Joh 11:14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
Act_13:36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:
1Co_11:30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
1Co_15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Th_4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th_5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

sdowney717 said:

Cant find any human - angel hybrids, God destroyed them all.
Fallen angels took as many wives as they chose. God locked them up in dungeons to awai the judgement day, so that group of fallen angels is no longer free to roam.
Why did God just lock up a subset of fallen angels and not the entire bunch? Because of what they had done.
Angels are able to assume bodily forms and interact convincingly with humans.

6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; 7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these (fallen angels) , having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

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Jesus said a spirit does not have flesh and bones when He appeared to His disciples after His resurrection, and angels are spirits (Hebrews 1:14). If a spirit could materialize then this would call into question the entire resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Besides, both men and women have reported "sexual attacks" by demons for centuries, but no woman has ever reported getting pregnant after "having sex" with a demon, let alone giving birth to some human-angel hybrid. If these sex demons had been locked up, they wouldn't have been roaming freely "sexually assaulting" humans.

Taking those into account, I am inclined to interpret Jude 1:6-7 differently. Angels who "abandoned their proper abode" could possibly refer to demons who lived in human body by possessing them. I have read stories about pastors sending those demons they cast out to Gehenna before the time so that they could not go and possess another body:

Lily of Valleys said:

Jesus said a spirit does not have flesh and bones when He appeared to His disciples after His resurrection, and angels are spirits (Hebrews 1:14). If a spirit could materialize then this would call into question the entire resurrection of Jesus Christ.

But they were startled and frightened and thought that they were seeing a spirit. And He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.” And when He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet. (Luke 24:37-40 NASB)
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Besides, both men and women have reported "sexual attacks" by demons for centuries, but no woman has ever reported getting pregnant after "having sex" with a demon, let alone giving birth to some human-angel hybrid. If these sex demons had been locked up, they wouldn't having been roaming freely "sexually assaulting" humans.

Taking those into account, I am inclined to interpret Jude 1:6-7 differently. Angels who "abandoned their proper abode" could possibly refer to demons who lived in human body by possessing them. I have read stories about pastors sending those demons they cast out to Gehenna before the time:

And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day, just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire. (Jude 1:6-7 NASB)
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Hebrews 13 New King James Version (NKJV)
Concluding Moral Directions
13 Let brotherly love continue. 2 Do not forget to entertain strangers, for by so doing some have unwittingly entertained angels.

This verse tells me people can not tell the difference between an angel and a human, if the angel so wishes to appear in a bodily form, they would fool you completely.
God locked up the fallen angels who committed sexual immorality, and the ones still free are scared of the same fate, so there are no Nephilim giants born today, God made sure of that.

Angels primary essence is spirit is true, but then what of God and the two angels visiting Abraham who cooked for them a calf? And then those 2 angels interaction with Lot and the people of Sodom who desired sexual relations with these angels? If those angels were spirit only, then they would not have acted as they did. Those angels appeared as flesh and bone.

Not just a celestial spirit being appears to Joshua, but a MAN, so having then flesh, but also Joshua worshiped this MAN. This is called a Theophany, an appearance of the preincarnate Christ in the OT times. Angels have done the same, appearing in the flesh to to the eyes of men.

Joshua 5:13-14 New King James Version (NKJV)
The Commander of the Army of the Lord
13 And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted his eyes and looked, and behold, a Man stood opposite him with His sword drawn in His hand. And Joshua went to Him and said to Him, “Are You for us or for our adversaries?”

14 So He said, “No, but as Commander of the army of the Lord I have now come.”

And Joshua fell on his face to the earth and worshiped, and said to Him, “What does my Lord say to His servant?”

sdowney717 said:

Hebrews 13 New King James Version (NKJV)
Concluding Moral Directions
13 Let brotherly love continue. 2 Do not forget to entertain strangers, for by so doing some have unwittingly entertained angels.

This verse tells me people can not tell the difference between an angel and a human, if the angel so wishes to appear in a bodily form, they would fool you completely.
God locked up the fallen angels who committed sexual immorality, and the ones still free are scared of the same fate, so there are no Nephilim giants born today, God made sure of that.

Angels primary essence is spirit is true, but then what of God and the two angels visiting Abraham who cooked for them a calf? And then those 2 angels interaction with Lot and the people of Sodom who desired sexual relations with these angels? If those angels were spirit only, then they would not have acted as they did.

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Jesus asked His disciples to touch Him to verify that He had flesh and bones, but none of these examples you mentioned above had anyone actually touching the angels to confirm that they actually had a physical body.

Another difference is these angels you mentioned were sent by God to carry out a mission given by God. There has never been any mention of any fallen angel having the capability of appearing as a human. On the contrary, they seem to need to possess a human body in order to rest:

Considering everything I posted on this thread, I tend to interpret Genesis 6:4 differently. I think "The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward" means Nephilim already existed before the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and the children they bore were not the Nephilim.

mmksparbud said:

If you take this interpretation of the word---yes there are!

"The "sons of God" are explained in the Targum to Genesis 6:4 and the Midrash (Gen. R. 26:5) as young aristocrats who married the daughters of commoners."

Ain't Prince Harry and Meghan cute?

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You just got through clarifying that in the OT that the reference to "sons of GOD" were to heavenly beings and in the NT humans who were counted in as the true ISRAEL of GOD


And now your changing your stance?

Absolutely NOT

Once the flood came, that resolved the issue of those angels who had taken the daughters of men as wives

There are NO MORE nephillim in that sense

And how do you dare to imply that the children born to aristocrats who marry those outside of that line might be a parallel example and evil?

jaybird88 said:

the scriptures say Noah was the only one without blemish. it says all flesh was corrupted, it means there was an actual physical change.

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GOD looks at the spirit not the flesh

That's what was corrupted

Lily of Valleys said:

Jesus asked His disciples to touch Him to verify that He had flesh and bones, but none of these examples you mentioned above had anyone actually touching the angels to confirm that they actually had a physical body.

Another difference is these angels you mentioned were sent by God to carry out a mission given by God. There has never been any mention of any fallen angel having the capability of appearing as a human. On the contrary, they seem to need to possess a human body in order to rest:

“Now when the unclean spirit goes out of a man, it passes through waterless places seeking rest, and does not find it. Then it says, ‘I will return to my house from which I came’; and when it comes, it finds it unoccupied, swept, and put in order. Then it goes and takes along with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there; and the last state of that man becomes worse than the first. That is the way it will also be with this evil generation.” (Matthew 12:43-45 NASB)
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Considering everything I posted on this thread, I tend to interpret Genesis 6:4 differently. I think "The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward" means Nephilim already existed before the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and the children they bore were not the Nephilim.

The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. (Genesis 6:4 NASB)​

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The unclean spirits which are demons are not fallen angels, they are disembodied spirits of the Nephilim.
I just did a wordsearch for 'fallen angel' and nothing comes up, but plenty of references to demon. 'Fallen' angels are simply the angels who sinned, they are still angels. The word angel and demon are different words in both english and
greek and point to different creatures.

Jay bird

Noah found grace

Where is it written that Noah was without blemish?

dup

Lily of Valleys said:

Jesus asked His disciples to touch Him to verify that He had flesh and bones, but none of these examples you mentioned above had anyone actually touching the angels to confirm that they actually had a physical body.

Another difference is these angels you mentioned were sent by God to carry out a mission given by God. There has never been any mention of any fallen angel having the capability of appearing as a human. On the contrary, they seem to need to possess a human body in order to rest:

“Now when the unclean spirit goes out of a man, it passes through waterless places seeking rest, and does not find it. Then it says, ‘I will return to my house from which I came’; and when it comes, it finds it unoccupied, swept, and put in order. Then it goes and takes along with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there; and the last state of that man becomes worse than the first. That is the way it will also be with this evil generation.” (Matthew 12:43-45 NASB)
​

Considering everything I posted on this thread, I tend to interpret Genesis 6:4 differently. I think "The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward" means Nephilim already existed before the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and the children they bore were not the Nephilim.

The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. (Genesis 6:4 NASB)​

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Please explain where the daughters of men and the sons of GOD came from before they bore children

James 3:14-16 New King James Version (NKJV)
14 But if you have bitter envy and self-seeking in your hearts, do not boast and lie against the truth. 15 This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic. 16 For where envy and self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing are there.

Demons are earthly, having of course come from Nephilim, born on this earth. It is wisdom from below. Angels were not born on earth but had their origin as celestial beings, they were heavenly by nature. The angels who left their proper abode heaven, God judged locking them up in dungeons deep, they are NOT free to roam about as are demons.

Galatians 1:8 New King James Version (NKJV)
8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.

Even Paul acknowledges angels are from heaven. Does not make them holy elect angels though!

mmksparbud said:

If you take this interpretation of the word---yes there are!

"The "sons of God" are explained in the Targum to Genesis 6:4 and the Midrash (Gen. R. 26:5) as young aristocrats who married the daughters of commoners."

Ain't Prince Harry and Meghan cute?

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And yes they're cute
And have every right to be married if they chose to be

sdowney717 said:

Galatians 1:8 New King James Version (NKJV)
8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.

Even Paul acknowledges angels are from heaven. Does not make them holy elect angels though!

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Paul said IF so as to stress the point that there is only ONE GOSPEL


No angel from Heaven would preach another GOSPEL

That should be clear

As well we should be able to distinguish that the prince of the air is not any spirit we should acknowledge

Ephesians 2:2 where in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience

Who appears to still be at work

There are 2 basic groups of evil angels, the ones who left willingly their heavenly abode, they Jude mentions, they are all locked up in dungeons deep and gloomy to await judgement of the Great Day. They the ones who sinned and birthed the Nephilim giants.

Jude 6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; 7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

The others were forced unwillingly to leave heaven, they are still free to roam around, they are not yet locked up.

Revelation 12:7-9 New King James Version (NKJV)
Satan Thrown Out of Heaven
7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

miknik5 said:

Paul said IF so as to stress the point that there is only ONE GOSPEL


No angel from Heaven would preach another GOSPEL

That should be clear

As well we should be able to distinguish that the prince of the air is not any spirit we should acknowledge

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An angel of God would be elect, a holy angel and would not preach a false gospel, but not all angels from heaven are holy elect angels of God, consider the ones that were cast to the earth, but they were still of a heavenly origin, they were not of this earth even though now roaming around as powers of the air.