Iranaeus 130-202AD, Antichrist A Man, A Literal Temple, Destroyed At Jesus Second Coming.

jgr · Feb 15, 2018

Biblewriter said:
I do not need to prove my statement about what we, as a group, teach. You made an incorrect allegation about what we teach, and I said it was wrong. When I made an incorrect allegation about what you each. You corrected me, and I accepted your correction.

The direct quotations I have demanded have been in regard to allegations about what specific people from long ago taught. That is very different from allegations the doctrines of your own group.

What kind of bafflegab is this?

Anyone making any claim of any kind must be prepared to support it with credible evidence. In this case, that means quotes from recognized dispensationalists affirming unequivocally what the writer of Hebrews declares.

Anything less is mere disposable opinion, as you yourself have loudly and frequently proclaimed.

A refusal to provide such evidence is tacit admission that it does not exist.

Truth7t7 · Feb 15, 2018

BABerean2 said:
Then why are some Christians sending money to the Temple Institute, and why are some like Pastor Mark Blitz supporting the effort to build a third temple?

.

I agree sending $$$$ and supporting this cause isn't biblical.

Truth7t7 · Feb 15, 2018

jgr said:
I'd consider the pope being taken captive at Rome, the seat of the papacy, to be of greater significance as a symbol of the end of papal power, than the deposition of the Roman church in France.

But the French deposition was certainly an integral part of the process of which 1798 was the culmination.

Do you believe "Nero" was the Antichrist of Daniel 9:27?

jgr · Feb 15, 2018

Truth7t7 said:
Do you believe "Nero" was the Antichrist of Daniel 9:27?

There's no antichrist in Daniel 9:27.

Biblewriter · Feb 15, 2018

jgr said:
What kind of bafflegab is this?

Anyone making any claim of any kind must be prepared to support it with credible evidence. In this case, that means quotes from recognized dispensationalists affirming unequivocally what the writer of Hebrews declares.

Anything less is mere disposable opinion, as you yourself have loudly and frequently proclaimed.

A refusal to provide such evidence is tacit admission that it does not exist.

You did not back up your claim abut what Historicists teach by a single quotation. And I did not demand it, assuming that you actually know what you teach.

And I flatly refuse to accept your bait for a debate about what Dispensationalists of the present day teach. As I said before I am, myself, an award winning Dispensational writer, whose work has peen published in several languages, with excerpts published in many languages. So whatever I say is something that has been said by a recognized Dispensational writer. Like any other human, I sometimes make mistakes. And when anyone proves to me that I have made one, I readily admit it. But you repeatedly refuse to admit it, even when I post hard proof that things you have said are simply incorrect.

jgr · Feb 15, 2018

Biblewriter said:
You did not back up your claim abut what Historicists teach by a single quotation. And I did not demand it, assuming that you actually know what you teach.

And I flatly refuse to accept your bait for a debate about what Dispensationalists of the present day teach. As I said before I am, myself, an award winning Dispensational writer, whose work has peen published in several languages, with excerpts published in many languages. So whatever I say is something that has been said by a recognized Dispensational writer. Like any other human, I sometimes make mistakes. And when anyone proves to me that I have made one, I readily admit it. But you repeatedly refuse to admit it, even when I post hard proof that things you have said are simply incorrect.

John Wesley:
"In saying, A new covenant, he hath antiquated the first - Hath shown that it is disannulled, and out of date. Now that which is antiquated is ready to vanish away - As it did quickly after, when the temple was destroyed."

Your turn.

Biblewriter · Feb 15, 2018

jgr said:
John Wesley:
"In saying, A new covenant, he hath antiquated the first - Hath shown that it is disannulled, and out of date. Now that which is antiquated is ready to vanish away - As it did quickly after, when the temple was destroyed."

Your turn.

I told you I will not play this game.

jgr · Feb 15, 2018

Biblewriter said:
I told you I will not play this game.

One cannot win if one does not play.

But it can also be true that one cannot win even if one does play.

Your choice.

David Kent · Feb 16, 2018

Truth7t7 said:
Nobody ever stated a future temple in Jerusalem was good or blessed by God.
However this will fulfill future prophecy as the antichrist will sit in this temple, 2 Thessalonians 2:3

So how could it be called "The Temple of God."?

However Paul does tell us what is the Temple of God

1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1 Corinthians 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
2 Corinthians 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

I take the literal view of this and that the temple of God in Thessalonians 2:4 is the same temple as that in the previous verses.

David Kent · Feb 16, 2018

jgr said:
There's no antichrist in Daniel 9:27.

Or anywhere else in Daniel 9.

David Kent · Feb 16, 2018

Biblewriter said:
You did not back up your claim abut what Historicists teach by a single quotation. And I did not demand it, assuming that you actually know what you teach.

You can see a full teaching of what hiistoricists teach if you read E B Elliott's Horae Apocalyptica. You can get it free on Google Books for PC or Google Play for tablets. 4 volumes, if you choose the ones with coloured covers you will get the full set. That will take you a time to read, so we see you in a few months.

Truth7t7 · Feb 16, 2018

Deleted by user

Truth7t7 · Feb 16, 2018

David Kent said:
Or anywhere else in Daniel 9.

The prince will be the man of sin/antichrist, he will cause the future abomination of desolation as seen in Matthew 24:15

prince, he

Daniel 9:25-27
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

David Kent · Feb 16, 2018

Truth7t7 said:
The prince will be the man of sin/antichrist, he will cause the future abomination of desolation as seen in Matthew 24:15

prince, he

Daniel 9:25-27
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

I know that scripture. I thought you were a literalist.

It was the people of the Prince who were the subject of that verse, not the prince, so the 'he' must refer back to Messiah the Prince, who was to confirm the covenant with many for one week, which he did.

Some believe that there is only one prince mentioned and that he came in judgement on the Jews using the Roman armies as his people (servants) as the scriptures say that Nebuchadnezzar and Cyrus were his servants.

I believe that Titus was the prince who was to come and his people, the Roman Armies, did destroy the temple against his orders and that prophecy was fulfilled to the letter LITERALLY. To prove it the Temple is not there, or show me where it is?

Anyhow regardless of that, Antichrist is not mentioned there, to claim that he is, is a human fabrication.

jgr · Feb 16, 2018

Truth7t7 said:
The prince will be the man of sin/antichrist, he will cause the future abomination of desolation as seen in Matthew 24:15

prince, he

Daniel 9:25-27
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

In addition to Titus as the prince in v. 26, it can also be considered to be Christ, insofar as He is the only one identified as a prince in the passage. His people were both the Romans, whom He used as His instruments of judgment and destruction; and the Jews themselves, whom contemporary Jewish historians acknowledge were responsible for as much of the carnage as the Romans.

Truth7t7 · Feb 16, 2018

jgr said:
In addition to Titus as the prince in v. 26, it can also be considered to be Christ, insofar as He is the only one identified as a prince in the passage. His people were both the Romans, whom He used as His instruments of judgment and destruction; and the Jews themselves, whom contemporary Jewish historians acknowledge were responsible for as much of the carnage as the Romans.

No Titus was not the "prince" in lower case, this is a future "he"

You will closely note "Messiah The Prince" upper case "Prince" deity, Jesus Christ

Lower case "prince" not deity future antichrist.

The prince will be the man of sin/antichrist, he will cause the future abomination of desolation as seen in Matthew 24:15

prince, he

Daniel 9:25-27
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Did Jesus Christ return and destroy your proclaimed Titus? Smiles

2 Thessalonians 2:3-8
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

jgr · Feb 16, 2018

Truth7t7 said:
No Titus was not the "prince" in lower case, this is a future "he"

You will closely note "Messiah The Prince" upper case "Prince" deity, Jesus Christ

Lower case "prince" not deity future antichrist.

The prince will be the man of sin/antichrist, he will cause the future abomination of desolation as seen in Matthew 24:15

prince, he

Daniel 9:25-27
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Did Jesus Christ return and destroy your proclaimed Titus? Smiles

2 Thessalonians 2:8
And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

Case is not a reliable indicator.

Revelation 1:5
And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

There is no connection between the Daniel and 2 Thessalonians passages except in your imagination. Chuckles

Biblewriter · Feb 16, 2018

David Kent said:
You can see a full teaching of what hiistoricists teach if you read E B Elliott's Horae Apocalyptica. You can get it free on Google Books for PC or Google Play for tablets. 4 volumes, if you choose the ones with coloured covers you will get the full set. That will take you a time to read, so we see you in a few months.

William Kelly wrote a highly detailed point-by-point refutation of Horae Apocalyptica, in his book titled "Lectures on the Revelation," which was published in the 1860s. You can read this online at: Revelation 1 - 3.

Truth7t7 · Feb 16, 2018

Biblewriter said:
William Kelly wrote a highly detailed point-by-point refutation of Horae Apocalyptica, in his book titled "Lectures on the Revelation," which was published in the 1860s. You can read this online at: Revelation 1 - 3.

Ole Bill Kelly was a buddy of Ole John N. DARBY, BOTH A PART OF THE BRETHREN MOVEMENT?

jgr · Feb 16, 2018

Biblewriter said:
William Kelly wrote a highly detailed point-by-point refutation of Horae Apocalyptica, in his book titled "Lectures on the Revelation," which was published in the 1860s. You can read this online at: Revelation 1 - 3.

Elliott was a Reformation historicist. Kelly was a Darbyite futurist.

Spurgeon commented, "Kelly is a man who, born for the universe, has narrowed his mind by Darbyism".

Futurity, which has not occurred, cannot refute history, which has.

Iranaeus 130-202AD, Antichrist A Man, A Literal Temple, Destroyed At Jesus Second Coming.

Well-Known Member

Newbie

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Senior Member

Well-Known Member

Senior Member

Well-Known Member

Continuing Historicist

Continuing Historicist

Continuing Historicist

Newbie

Newbie

Continuing Historicist

Well-Known Member

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Senior Member

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Similar threads