The Many Mysteries of the Spirit of God

Lily of Valleys said:

Any ideas of any of the below are welcome:

(1) Since God is spirit, so the Spirit of God is basically the spirit of a spirit?! What is that supposed to mean?

God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth (John 4:24)​

(2) Is the Holy Spirit the same as the Spirit of Father?

For it is not you who speak, but it is the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you (Matthew 10:20)

When they arrest you and hand you over, do not worry beforehand about what you are to say, but say whatever is given you in that hour; for it is not you who speak, but it is the Holy Spirit (Mark 13:11)

When they bring you before the synagogues and the rulers and the authorities, do not worry about how or what you are to speak in your defense, or what you are to say; for the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say (Luke 12:11-12)​

(3) If the Spirit of God is the same as the Spirit of Son, and is the same of the Spirit of Christ, and is the same as the Holy Spirit, does it mean the Father and Son share the same spirit?

However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. (Romans 8:9)

Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” (Galatians 4:6)​

(4) How many spirits do God have?

If the spirit of God (Genesis 1:2, Matthew 3:16, 12:28) = the spirit of Christ (Romans 8:9, 1 Peter 1:11) = the spirit of Jesus (Acts 16:7) = the spirit of Father (Matthew 10:20) = the spirit of Truth = the Holy Spirit, then who are the seven spirits of God??

John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne (Revelation 1:4)​

He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars, says this (Revelation 3:1)​

there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God (Revelation 4:5)​

And I saw between the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent out into all the earth. (Revelation 5:6)​

(5) If the Holy Spirit is a person like the Father and Son, why doesn't the Holy Spirit have His throne in Revelation?

He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. (Revelation 3:21)

Then he showed me a river of the water of life, clear as crystal, coming from the throne of God and of the Lamb, in the middle of its street. On either side of the river was the tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit every month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. There will no longer be any curse; and the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it (Revelation 22:1-3)​

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The context of the passage is speaking about ,the Body of believers .
The Three persons of God are but one.
JESUS is speaking to mankind in a method of understanding ,from man's perspective of Christ who became flesh and dwelt among us.

Lily of Valleys said:

Any ideas of any of the below are welcome:

(1) Since God is spirit, so the Spirit of God is basically the spirit of a spirit?! What is that supposed to mean?

God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth (John 4:24)​

(2) Is the Holy Spirit the same as the Spirit of Father?

For it is not you who speak, but it is the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you (Matthew 10:20)

When they arrest you and hand you over, do not worry beforehand about what you are to say, but say whatever is given you in that hour; for it is not you who speak, but it is the Holy Spirit (Mark 13:11)

When they bring you before the synagogues and the rulers and the authorities, do not worry about how or what you are to speak in your defense, or what you are to say; for the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say (Luke 12:11-12)​

(3) If the Spirit of God is the same as the Spirit of Son, and is the same of the Spirit of Christ, and is the same as the Holy Spirit, does it mean the Father and Son share the same spirit?

However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. (Romans 8:9)

Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” (Galatians 4:6)​

(4) How many spirits do God have?

If the spirit of God (Genesis 1:2, Matthew 3:16, 12:28) = the spirit of Christ (Romans 8:9, 1 Peter 1:11) = the spirit of Jesus (Acts 16:7) = the spirit of Father (Matthew 10:20) = the spirit of Truth = the Holy Spirit, then who are the seven spirits of God??

John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne (Revelation 1:4)​

He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars, says this (Revelation 3:1)​

there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God (Revelation 4:5)​

And I saw between the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent out into all the earth. (Revelation 5:6)​

(5) If the Holy Spirit is a person like the Father and Son, why doesn't the Holy Spirit have His throne in Revelation?

He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. (Revelation 3:21)

Then he showed me a river of the water of life, clear as crystal, coming from the throne of God and of the Lamb, in the middle of its street. On either side of the river was the tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit every month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. There will no longer be any curse; and the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it (Revelation 22:1-3)​

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You haven't specified whether you believe in the Trinity or not. If you are anti-Trinitarian then I can understand your confusion. If you are not, then I can't understand why you should be confused seeing that there are three distinct Persons in the Godhead, all in complete unity with each other. The three Persons have three difficult functions: The Father is the Designer, The Son is the Executive, and the Holy Spirit is the Activator.

When you can see God as three Persons, then the Spirit of God can be seen as the Holy Spirit as the Third Person of the Godhead. Therefore He is not the same Spirit as the Father. Jesus is a separate Person, because He said to His disciples that when He went to the Father He would send the Holy Spirit to guide the Church. Therefore Jesus could not have sent Himself to the Church if He was the same as the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is called the Spirit of Christ because He has come to the Church, not to do His own will, but the will of Christ; and Christ came not to do His own will, but the will of the Father.

God is a Spirit ,as we are Spiritual beings ,being made in His image
Spirt, Soul ,and Body.
The seven Spirits are the Spirits of grace given to man through the gifts of the Spirit the seven fold ministry.

Some believe they are the mighty ones mentioned in the Bible such as Ark Angels and men of great valor.

Some verses sowing the trinity nature of God

Matthew 28:19
KJV
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
ESV
Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Matthew 3:16-17 NIV
16 As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him.
17 And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”

Matthew 12:28
“But if I [Jesus] cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.”

John 14:16-17 NIV
16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever—
17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

Luke 3:21-22 NIV
21 When all the people were being baptized, Jesus was baptized too. And as he was praying, heaven was opened
22 and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.”

1 Peter 1:1-2 NIV
1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To God’s elect, exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia,
2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance.

2 Corinthians 1:21-22 NIV
21 Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us,
22 set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

And some more are here
20 Bible verses that mention all Trinity members

Came across this which shows the trinity in the OT verses
The Godhead, or Trinity - A Study in the Scriptures by Diane Dew
B. The doctrine of the Godhead can be summed up in the literal Hebrew translation of one verse.

Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our Gods (plural) is Jehovah a unity."

Lily of Valleys said:

(5) If the Holy Spirit is a person like the Father and Son, why doesn't the Holy Spirit have His throne in Revelation?

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The river is the Holy Spirit. Jesus taught the water He gives," when you drink this water you will never be thirsty again" This water is eternal life.

The river flows out of the Throne of God. Here is pictured the Trinity

Rev 22-1
Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, bright as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb

If you doubt that this river is the Holy Spirit revisit what Jesus teaches the Samaritan woman at the well.

Lily of Valleys said:

(5) If the Holy Spirit is a person like the Father and Son, why doesn't the Holy Spirit have His throne in Revelation?

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The Holy Spirit only wants to reveal the Union of Love of the Father and the Son. Revealing Himself takes away from who He is as the One who is the Love of the Father and the Son. That's His distinction as a Divine Person.

I doubt you will get an answer that satisfies your intellect.
We come to God in faith. Those that do so must fundamentally and very simply "believe that he is." But he is far beyond our mental capacity to comprehend in more than likenesses.

Philippians 2:6.7 says
though he (Jesus) was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.

"he emptied himself" implies that he gave something up. I for one have no firm idea on exactly what.

But if you really want to know what God is like, indeed if you really want to know God, focus on Jesus. Jesus is the medium/the message/the means of communication/God's rationale through which God decided to reveal himself. Even the Spirit was promised to show us Jesus.

God's "structure," his "form" is not what he wants us to focus on, and it will remain a mystery as long as that is the case. You can think up all the theories and postulations you like: you will not come close to the full description. For some people trying to figure this out is important, but after doing that for quite a while myself, what I learned was that He is beyond me. Yes, it can even be useful to understand the various uses of the word 'spirit' in the Bible, but even in English it has multiple meanings, and I'm not sure there will be full agreement on what the word means in every context. So I'm focusing on Jesus and what he shows and tells us about himself, the Father, the Spirit, the body.

God is Spirit. So that God is without form. God IS NOT anything physical. God is not ‘of the flesh,’ though He became flesh. So, what is left if you take away everything that is physical? God is thought. God is understanding. God is awareness. God is a sentient being, without form. God is a thinking being with the power to affect you, me, and the physical world. If you are still having trouble do this…, Close your eyes so that all that is physical is wiped away. Now, as you ‘think,’ understand that you know you are alive. You know you are something. “I think, therefore I AM”. And God tells us who He is and says I AM. EXO 3:14. Or; I’m alive. I exist (I always have, and I always will). And THAT, is what ‘Spirit’ is…,

The Bible teaches that some thoughts come from God, or the Spirit of God. And this is what Christians strive for when they pray – to be led by His Spirit (ie, bring me your thoughts God. Direct me. Tell me what to do. Cause this to happen. Or cause that to happen. Etc., etc.,). And if we are asking him to cause things to happen, then we are only asking him to bring about the circumstances that cause it. And how are circumstances brought about? In other words – use your power God, to direct the thoughts of others and the things of the flesh to make an effect that causes the thing I want - to happen. If I pray that my child is kept safe on their road trip, then one thing I am asking is; “Make sure that You cause everyone else driving on the road to have thoughts that make their decisions (and therefore their actions) to result that my child does not get in a car accident. And that is only one example of a million things that God might do for you…, A guy ‘thinks,’ and by his thoughts decides to go home from the bar instead of having that one more drink and ending up blowing a stop sign, just when your child is passing through. Now, you ‘think’ about it…, If you have prayed that your child is kept safe, how else would it be brought about, other than what I have just described? Or perhaps; your child’s friend does not have thoughts to ‘decide’ to text, just at the wrong time, so that your child looks down at the phone and gets in an accident because some other driver also got a text and looked down at their phone. Etc., etc., etc.,

And Christ told us many times that ALL HIS THOUGHTS (by which He acted), were coming directly from the Father. “I and the Father are One!” In fact, He beat us over the head with this testimony. I could easily find 10 places where He spoke to it, if I were to take the time and pick them out. And John the Baptist, also bore witness to this fact. John 3:34. In other words, ALL of Christ's Spirit -His thoughts and understandings - were directly from the Father. Or; Christ did not have the interference of evil spirits (thoughts). Or, thoughts and desires that were in opposition to the Father’s will. Christ was not selfish. Christ was selfless. Sinless. Or, I might say – “Christ did not eat the apple. He did not consume it so that it was not part of Him. He did not have the ‘knowledge of evil’ inside Him". Christ did not have ‘blind to God’ thoughts, understandings, desires. This is evidenced in His understanding of the Old Testament (even as a child), as well as in everything He did. Though he could see evil, understand it, and therefore describe it - In Himself; He did not think, move, or act in opposition to the Father’s desires…, the Father’s will.

Now, since God is not anything physical, but has the power to affect the physical, He might appear to us (who judge by appearance and therefore have trouble discerning what Spirit is John 7:24) - as anything He chooses. For example, God might choose to appear to someone as a burning bush. Or, He might even, choose to appear to us as His own Son. And Christ bore witness saying that he would send us that very Spirit. The Spirit that He carried, or that was in Him. The thoughts and understandings that proceeds forth directly (without corruption) from the Father. And that, is what God has called; ‘The Holy Spirit,’ or; the ‘Spirit of Truth,’ or; ‘The Comforter.’

Anyway, these are the ‘thoughts’ I have. This is what the 'spirit of me’ see’s (not literally by appearance as if to 'see' something) and understands when reading the Scriptures. And I pray in hope, that my sight is good. That the thoughts I have are true. I pray to God that I am not deceived. I pray that my spirit (understandings) are true, in that they come in – of - and by the very Spirit which gives that sight. The Spirit of Truth. The One the draws me to Him. The One that allows me to see Him. The One that prays unceasingly to; See Thee more clearly.., Love Thee more dearly…, follow thee more nearly..., day by day by day..., Amen. Ok, I 'realize' (a word used to convey a spirit of understanding) that that was a little cheesy..., But I hope I have been of some help.

Lily of Valleys said:

I think it means Jesus has given up His glory as God.

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Quite possibly ... but just what is 'glory' in this sense?

He gave up "almightiness" "omnipresence" "omniscience" - he became a servant and learned obedience; he confined himself, apparently forever, within a human body ('for there is one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus); he doesn't know when he's coming back. On the other hand now he certainly represents "the fullness of God bodily" and the amazing thing is that in our eventual maturity we are to reach the "measure of the fullness of Christ."

There may have been other things that he emptied himself of that we simply cannot grasp.

And that is a large part of my point "I cannot grasp it; I cannot grab on to it; I cannot think it through."

But I can praise him for all I know him to be; I can in wonder worship him for who he is and what he has done; I can thank him for endless numbers of things, especially his loving grace; I can walk with him through my daily life and in my encounters with others. And lo and behold, when I don't grasp after my own understanding of him, he shows me himself in constantly surprising ways.

So, as Paul said using Jesus as an example, we should not grasp after everything we can, but emply ourselves in humility .... because then God will ....!

Lily of Valleys said:

What does it mean when you say the Holy Spirit is the love of the Father and the Son? And how can love be a person?

I am interested in where in the scripture you drew this conclusion from.

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1 John 4:8
Whoever does not love does not know God, for God is love.

Romans 5:5-6
5 and hope does not disappoint us, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit that has been given to us.



The Promise of the Holy Spirit
15 “If you love me, you will keep my commandments. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate, to be with you forever. 17 This is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, because he abides with you, and he will be in you.
1 John 4:8
Whoever does not love does not know God, for God is love.

The Holy Spirit is how we know God and how we know God is Love. The Apostles knew to say those words by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit of God is Love

The Holy Spirit is the outpouring of the Father and Son's love.God is Love

Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, bright as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb

God is the essence of love, Jesus is its embodiment. Love is a verb, even if it's more! Everything God does He does in love. He cannot do otherwise. Similarly God is good, and everything He does is good - it is his Nature, He cannot do otherwise. "But God shows his love for us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us." (Rom 5:8)

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control;... (Gal 5:22-23)

Lily of Valleys said:

Every church I have ever attended believe in the trinity. I believe that the Father, the Son and the Spirit are the same God, but in what form and how that really works to me is an unknown. My preference is to understand God directly from the scripture as opposed to interpreting the scripture through the lens of a doctrine, which seems to me is a simplified and reductionistic version of the real thing that relies on assumptions made according to human logic.

If God is able to co-exist in different forms at the same time, then I think it is possible for Jesus to send another form of Himself to the Church.

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What you are talking about is Modalism, where God is only one Person who can exist in three different forms. But that is not the God of the Bible. The God of the Bible is presented as three separate Persons. This was not made clear to the Old Testament writers, but the reality was observed at the baptism of Jesus, where the Holy Spirit descended in bodily form, like a dove (not an actual dove) and a voice spoke from heaven, saying, "This is my beloved Son,,,etc." This could not have happened if God was just one Person being able to transform Himself into different forms. God may be all powerful, but He cannot exist in three places at once.

What we have to do is to see God as a plural word, not a singular one. The Father is God, Jesus is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. It is their unity that makes the one. Not one in form, but one in unity and purpose. When we look at John 3:16 it says "God so loved the world that He sent His Son...", not that He came as His Son.

Oscarr said:

God may be all powerful, but He cannot exist in three places at once.

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Hmmm...
If God existed before the universe began He exists outside of time and place. In other words He is always "now" and his is every "where."

For me the clearest proof that God is more than one person, is that He is love. There is no love on one's own.

Monna said:

Hmmm...
If God existed before the universe began He exists outside of time and place. In other words He is always "now" and his is every "where."

For me the clearest proof that God is more than one person, is that He is love. There is no love on one's own.

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I like your second sentence.

God exists outside of our limitation of time. Our time had a beginning when the universe was created, and it will end when the universe is rolled up when Jesus comes again. The difference between our time and God's eternity is that God's eternity has no beginning and no end. This is a difficult concept for us to perceive right now, because our brains are wired to this world's environment. Anything outside of that, we have to take at God's Word as shown in the Bible.

For God to exist in an ever present "now" without a sequence of events. means that He cannot exist at all. He would be imprisoned in a still photograph, because in a still photograph there is now past or future, but it is a point in frozen in time. But we see in the Bible that God is aware of His past and He works toward a future, so He must be existing in a series of events that stretched back into past eternity, which we know nothing of, and is progressing toward future eternity, which we know little of outside of what has been revealed to us in the Bible.

An ever-present "now" is a philosophical concept, not a Biblical one. In eternity there is a past, present and future, except that it is endless in both directions. That is where The Father and Jesus are right now. The Holy Spirit indwells believers so He is in our time zone, working with us.

In actual fact, the future doesn't exist yet, and our past does not exist outside of our memories and what has been recorded. We are living from one action and event to another, and the choices we make in the "now" determine how our future is going to be created. We can see in the Bible what God has planned for the future, and some have taught that God knows every detail of the future and what will happen. I don't happen to believe that, because every prophecy that has been fulfilled, has come to pass because God planned it that way and then put His plans into effect so the fulfillment was accomplished. There are times when God changed His plans so that how He originally planned to make something happen, didn't happen that way, so He changed, not the objective, but the method of getting to that objective. When we talk of the foreknowledge of God, we are referring to what God knows what He has planned to happen and what He determines as His objective. So, if you study the Old Testament and see promises of God that were not fulfilled, such as the Jews living in their land forever. It didn't happen. They were unfaithful and so they lost their land for thousands of years. Saul was supposed to remain king of Israel and for his descendants to continue reigning, but that didn't happen because of his disobedience, and so David reigned in his stead. God did not intend for Samson to be taken prisoner and blinded, but he was unfaithful and suffered the consequence of it. God did not want Israel to have a king rule over them, but the people wanted it, so He had to accept that and to bless and work with Israel another way to accomplish His plan for them. There are many other references that show that God changed His mind and His plans to achiever His objectives. The Bible does not describe God as knowing every detail of a future that does not exist, but is created through the decisions people make. But it does show a God who accomplishes His purposes through all the twists and turns of human decision making.