Is there any (kind of) sin that can cost me my salvation, or separate me from God's Love...?

Is there any (kind of) sin that can cost me my salvation, or separate me from God's Love...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

Serving Zion said:

1 John 5:16 says that there is.

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Mind explaining how 1 John 5:16 says that please...?

God Bless!

mukk_in said:

Any and all sin separates us from God and we're restored into a relationship with Him through repentance and forgiveness in the Lord Jesus. However, only blasphemy against the Holy Spirit (resisting or rejecting God's grace and His Holy Spirit, unforgiveness, etc.) separates us eternally from Him and there's no forgiveness for that unpardonable sin. That's my take. Peace in Christ .

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What if there are/were factors in one person's life, that is not in another that "causes" a person to resist or reject God, or not forgive, or remain unloving and bitter... Certainly your not saying that someone's unforgiveness can cost them there salvation...

Also, timing is important, and the time in a person's life where they change from being unforgiving and unloving, to being forgiving and loving, must be taken into account also...

See, I think we're focusing too much on sin as the primary issue, (which usually only leads to more sins, or new sins that are unknown to the individual as sin) anyway, Love covers a multitude of sins, and I think focusing on sin is wrong, but focus on Love, and being a Loving person in a Godly way, and sin, will take care of itself, while you are growing in Godly love, and in the meantime, love and pursuing Godly love will cover sin till you get there....

I believe focusing on sin and making sin the primary issue only leads to more sin, while focusing on Godly Love and hotly pursuing it, is the only "real way" to get rid of sin for good, when Godly love is matured in you...

God Bless!

Serving Zion said:

I will try!

"There is a sin that leads to death;" (1 John 5:16).

If you are to look at the Strong's word definition for "death" (#2288 thanatos), there is written the following understanding of the meaning of that word:

2288 thánatos (derived from 2348 /thnḗskō, "to die") – physical or spiritual death; (figuratively) separation from the life (salvation) of God forever by dying without first experiencing death to self to receive His gift of salvation.

Though whether this means that we can be separated from the love of God, I do not know. I do know that God's love is not necessarily mutually exclusive to His wrath (meaning that despite His justice can rule against us, His love is somehow still for us - that being the part of us that has not yet "perished").

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So, does it mean physical death, or spiritual death...?

What if there are factors and reasons for a persons not dying to themselves in their life...? What if they are basically ignorant, and it might not be there fault...?

I do not think there is any sin that can separate me from the love of God in my life, that will cost me my salvation, or make me no longer his... The only sin that I think can do even remotely possibly do this is, not walking in love at this point in "my life"...

The only sin that can do this in my life now is not walking in or pursuing Godly love in my life, for without love a person is nothing. Not, if a person sins and is a sinner, they are nothing (to God), but only if they do not love, or if they constantly reject love without (valid) cause or reason, (that's why I said "my life")...

If I walk in, concentrate and focus on walking in Godly Love, and practicing and pursuing it in my life, I have God's word, that sin will taken care of, I for my part, am only to walk in love and pursue love, and I have the assurance, that everything else will be taken care of in it's due time...

But, that's "my life" and me, as I said, I do not feel like I can make the same judgement about everyone...

God Bless!

mukk_in said:

Well, those are complex issues. Not forgiving others is a damnable offense. If we don't forgive others of their sins, then we're not forgiven either. That's simple.

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Not quite that simple...

What about different factors in an individual life...? No one is the exact same, so can basis for judgement, be the same for everybody...? Also, time, and where person is at in there life currently, I feel must be considered as well... Some are born again at a very young age, some not till there much older, some even on there deathbed...

mukk_in said:

As far as circumstantial issues go, we certainly are in position to judge others.

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How can we...? (judge others) How are we in a position to judge others, and how do we do this...?

mukk_in said:

The emphasis should be on a personal relationship with God through the Lord Jesus, and holiness will be a natural outcome. God bless.

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No disagreement with this, notice it does not even mention sin...?

Only that "holiness will be the outcome" or, in other words, pursuing Godly Love and trying to become it, will take care of sin or make you holy, "in the process", (not right away) which I've already said...

God Bless!

mukk_in said:

Well, it's simple to me. Matthew 6:15, Matthew 6:12 (Lord's prayer) and so on. People can theorize these verses as they please, but its pretty cut and dry to me. If we don't forgive, then we aren't forgiven. Period. God bless.

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How can you judge that way...?

Factors that might predestine a person to be more unforgiving or how it might be more difficult for someone other than you to be forgiving, or have much more to forgive or how you would have to admit that even you, if it happened to you, might have a very hard time forgiving if it happened to you... Or the time in a person's life, when they are finally able to be more forgiving than they were earlier on in their life...

How can you be OK with yourself saying that and judging that way...?

Black and White, cut and dry... In my experience very little is actually this way, especially when it comes to people as "individuals", with very unique lives and not to mention unique "factors" in their life...

God Bless!

mukk_in said:

Also, the Lord Jesus was in circumstances and situations that none of us would ever face. Yet, He forgave and died for us while we were still in our sins. We simply don't have a valid excuse, no matter how hard and cruel our past, to hold on to grudges and unforgiveness. God bless.

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Except he was God, and none of us are...

Maybe one is not making "excuses", maybe there just not "there yet" (timing in a person's life) or haven't yet learned how to be as loving and forgiving as someone else has yet... Usually, the more a person has to overcome, the longer it takes to "get there" in life compared to someone else...

Do you have, or have you had some very, multiple and numerous, very traumatic and horrible childhood, as a child (imagine the worst)... Now, if that person takes a long time getting over all that, or forgiving all of that, who are you to judge...?

And if you meet this person early on in their life, or before they have experienced much personal growth, and you don't like them, so you judge them... How can you...?

And I'm not saying they shouldn't "get there", but what if it does not happen until the latter half of there life, or maybe, not until very near the end of there life...

How can you (we) judge...?

mukk_in said:

Well, it's simple to me. Matthew 6:15, Matthew 6:12 (Lord's prayer) and so on. People can theorize these verses as they please, but its pretty cut and dry to me. If we don't forgive, then we aren't forgiven. Period. God bless.

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So, we must forgive first, before God will forgive us...?

How much must we forgive first, before God will forgive us...? "All" of it...? And any new offenses, we must instantly forgive also... Before we can be forgiven...?

Sorry, we all fail that test...

You must understand that much of what Jesus said, was addressed to those seeking righteousness and God, under the Old Covenant, (though many miss that) I'm guessing, in order to show it's failure to make anyone righteous, (though many miss this also) I suppose to open up the way for the New Covenant (that, again, many miss)...

Also, much of what Jesus said that was based on the O.C. was supposed to act like a "lure", to draw all men to himself, and, once they read his words, to get them all to "dig (or go) deeper", in a way, while he did not hide the truth, he did, kind of disguise or bury it, in a way, in plain sight though, and basically handed us a shovel, basically...

Also to get people to say "well, how can we (possibly) be saved, then...?" "What should we do (about our failure under the O.C.)..?" and asking him, and him then introducing you to and walking you through, the N.C.

God Bless!

Neogaia777 said:

So, we must forgive first, before God will forgive us...?

How much must we forgive first, before God will forgive us...? "All" of it...? And any new offenses, we must instantly forgive also... Before we can be forgiven...?

Sorry, we all fail that test...

You must understand that much of what Jesus said, was addressed to those seeking righteousness and God, under the Old Covenant, (though many miss that) I'm guessing, in order to show it's failure to make anyone righteous, (though many miss this also) I suppose to open up the way for the New Covenant (that, again, many miss)...

Also, much of what Jesus said that was based on the O.C. was supposed to act like a "lure", to draw all men to himself, and, once they read his words, to get them all to "dig (or go) deeper", in a way, while he did not hide the truth, he did, kind of disguise or bury it, in a way, in plain sight though, and basically handed us a shovel, basically...

Also to get people to say "well, how can we (possibly) be saved, then...?" "What should we do (about our failure under the O.C.)..?" and asking him, and him then introducing you to and walking you through, the N.C.

God Bless!

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Also, Jesus showed us what he "lived up to", knowing we would find out we just couldn't do it, Jesus doing it, cause he knew we could not, and so we would not not have to live up to it fully if it is not possible for us...

What Jesus lived up to, showed his worthiness to compared with, and on equal footing with, God himself...

I garauntee you, we cannot do it fully...

God Bless!

Serving Zion said:

A person must first be born of God in order to have spiritual life, and that means to die to self that love can reign. When the physical life ends, it is the end of the opportunity for spiritual rebirth or spiritual death (Hebrews 9:27).

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So, one can do this say, on there deathbed, no matter how rotten they were prior to that...? And, say you met them prior to that and did not like them very much at all, and maybe, judged them... Was that judgement correct...?

Serving Zion said:

Romans 2:12 says they will perish. (God did not lie in Genesis 2:17).

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It says that those who lived without law, will perish without law, and is, in connection with Romans 2:14, just two lines after it, and taken in context, (Romans 2:12-29) it is not meaning, I believe, what your trying to twist it into meaning, nice try though...

Maybe you should read "all" of it, "in context" maybe, and since were cherry picking, I have Romans 2:23-24 to say to you and those like you...

Oh and about Genesis 2:17, What does eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and dying have to do with this, what is eating from the tree of the knowledge, (perhaps difference, maybe referring to judging or appointing yourself judge of good and evil), anyway, what is eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil to you...?

And, again, what kind of death, physical death? since we have eternal life spiritually in Christ, and we do not have to be sinless, to have it either...

Serving Zion said:

I always see sin as the failure of love - where sin is always a self-centred thing that cares of it's self even at the expense of truth or others, while love is a selfless thing that cares for others even at the expense of it's own.

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We agree here, which is why we are all in the "process" of being eventually perfected in love, which I do not believe fully happens till we are no longer in this world...

Serving Zion said:

In the letter of 1 John this is really clear - that we love because we are born of God and the one who is born of God does not do sin. So this sin that leads to death must coincide with what St. Paul wrote in Hebrews 6:4-8. St. Peter also wrote of it in 2 Peter 2:1 - they deny The Lord who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.

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Hebrews 6:4-8, Once they have been "enlightened", when does this happen, how can we know (if we are not, at least partially) still a little bit ignorant...? Repentance means what again, all sin? Quite impossible... and that is not what I think Paul meant it to mean, and I think your twisting scripture with your cherry picking again, he is not talking about sinlessness, and context again would have to be all of Hebrews 6 and even going into Hebrews 7 and on a bit, in this case...

2 Peter 2:1 is talking about false prophets, and is talking about one particular kind of sin, mainly that that leads to apostasy, and is not in any way shape or form referring to complete sinlessness... And again, I think your twisting scripture and ignoring context, which in this case, I think all of 2 Peter has to taken as a whole to correctly understand and comprehend any of it...

Context, Context, Context... Very important...

Got anything else...?

God Bless!

Serving Zion said:

A person must first be born of God in order to have spiritual life, and that means to die to self that love can reign. When the physical life ends, it is the end of the opportunity for spiritual rebirth or spiritual death (Hebrews 9:27).

Romans 2:12 says they will perish. (God did not lie in Genesis 2:17).

I always see sin as the failure to love - where sin is always a self-centred thing that cares of it's self even at the expense of truth or others, while love is a selfless thing that cares for others even at the expense of it's own. In the letter of 1 John this is really clear - that we love because we are born of God and the one who is born of God does not do sin. So this sin that leads to death must coincide with what St. Paul wrote in Hebrews 6:4-8. St. Peter also wrote of it in 2 Peter 2:1 - they deny The Lord who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.

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What if by your preaching complete sinlessness to be saved, you are committing apostasy...?

God Bless!