If you are a sinner, you are NOT saved by grace!

RaymondG said:

What I would like to know is....How does one unintentionally sin? We say that once we are born again and have put on the mind of Christ....We are still sinners and we still sin...but not willfully.

What are the "sins" we, with the mind and spirit of God, can commit without our will? What is a Sin that we have to continue to turn away from after being saved?

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Anything that misses the mark of Gods will, or anything not done in faith is a sin.

Dave-W said:

Anything that misses the mark of Gods will, or anything not done in faith is a sin.

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So when you are "saved" you can expect to continue to miss the mark and do things without faith, correct?

RaymondG said:

So when you are "saved" you can expect to continue to miss the mark and do things without faith, correct?

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We grow in obedience year after year. But we still slip up unintentionally from time to time.

And how many saved born again believers actually hear His voice?


Faith comes by hearing the [rhema] word of God. A spoken word, not written.

1stcenturylady said:

Does God commit unintentional sin? No, so we are not equal. The blood of Jesus cleanses us from those sin, but we still commit them.

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But the one doubting has been condemned if he eats, because it is not of faith; and anything that is not of faith is sin.

RaymondG said:

YEs, this is what Im talking about. Can you give some examples of this "UNINTENTIONAL/UNKNOWN sin" That the "saved" are allowed to partake in?

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Numbers 15:22 on to the end of the chapter. Notice in this sacrifice there is a foreshadow of the Lord's supper of the grain and drink offerings. Also, notice that there was no sacrifice for presumptuous/willful sin. They killed them.

Also, 1 John 1:7 talks about walking in the Spirit. What type of sin can one commit while not in the flesh (Romans 8:9)? The type that the blood of Jesus keeps on cleansing.

Also, notice 1 John 2:1. Do you see any sign of needing to repent as you would if you committed a willful sin? No. These are the sins we commit while walking in the Spirit. Again, 1 John 1:7

1 John 1:6, 8 and 10 are about the Gnostics of 1 John 4:1-3 that did not believe sins of the flesh were even sins, so no need to confess them as admonished in verse 9. Verse 9 is how to become a Christian. Notice 6, 8 and 10 are not written about together as they would be in a Greek style of writing. No, this is a Semitic (Hebrew) style of writing opposites.

5 - God is light
7 - If you walk in the light
9 - Cleansing of all sin (receiving the Holy Spirit who does not sin Acts 2:38

6 - walk in darkness - no truth
7 - doesn't admit sin - no truth
10 - still doesn't admit sin - no truth

RaymondG said:

What I would like to know is....How does one unintentionally sin? We say that once we are born again and have put on the mind of Christ....We are still sinners and we still sin...but not willfully.

What are the "sins" we, with the mind and spirit of God, can commit without our will? What is a Sin that we have to continue to turn away from after being saved?

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The actions of the body..in habitual states
The actions of the heart in habitual reactions...
Makes you wonder what is the sin with the body
The sin against Christ
I may study this...thanks to your question

But my assumptions are we have parts of the self that need to be trained..
Which is where the "trinity

RaymondG said:

Ok, Now what is the unintentional sin that we are saying we may commit after being saved? The sins WITHOUT our will......unwillful, if you will, that we are saying is the norm for the "saved."

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Habits of the flesh..that need to be reformed

Dave-W said:

We grow in obedience year after year. But we still slip up unintentionally from time to time.

And how many saved born again believers actually hear His voice?


Faith comes by hearing the [rhema] word of God. A spoken word, not written.

Click to expand...

I never heard His voice (a rhema) or received an answer to prayer for the first 30 years of going to church.

But when I confessed by sin and repented, I saw a vision, heard God's voice (9 sentences - that was only the first time), and every prayer thereafter was answered.

mozo41 said:

But the one doubting has been condemned if he eats, because it is not of faith; and anything that is not of faith is sin.

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Does God doubt?

1stcenturylady said:

Does God doubt?

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No, but we can.

Dave-W said:

No, but we can.

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The poster was saying we are equal to God. I guess he wan't to show that he doesn't doubt it.

1stcenturylady said:

Numbers 15:22 on to the end of the chapter. Notice in this sacrifice there is a foreshadow of the Lord's supper of the grain and drink offerings. Also, notice that there was no sacrifice for presumptuous/willful sin. They killed them.

Also, 1 John 1:7 talks about walking in the Spirit. What type of sin can one commit while not in the flesh (Romans 8:9)? The type that the blood of Jesus keeps on cleansing.

Also, notice 1 John 2:1. Do you see any sign of needing to repent as you would if you committed a willful sin? No. These are the sins we commit while walking in the Spirit. Again, 1 John 1:7

1 John 1:6, 8 and 10 are about the Gnostics of 1 John 4:1-3 that did not believe sins of the flesh were even sins, so no need to confess them as admonished in verse 9. Verse 9 is how to become a Christian. Notice 6, 8 and 10 are not written about together as they would be in a Greek style of writing. No, this is a Semitic (Hebrew) style of writing opposites.

5 - God is light
7 - If you walk in the light
9 - Cleansing of all sin (receiving the Holy Spirit who does not sin Acts 2:38

6 - walk in darkness - no truth
7 - doesn't admit sin - no truth
10 - still doesn't admit sin - no truth

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So you are talking about sin you are unaware of, correct? sins that you or anyone outside would be able to point out...

1stcenturylady said:

Does God doubt?

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in Him their is no shadow of turning ...

RaymondG said:

So you are talking about sin you are unaware of, correct? sins that you or anyone outside would be able to point out...

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Interject - "not" be able to point out.

RaymondG said:

So when you are "saved" you can expect to continue to miss the mark and do things without faith, correct?

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Well Peter did.

Unintentional sin:

Leviticus 4:1-35
Leviticus 5:14-19
Numbers 15:25-29

1stcenturylady said:

Interject - "not" be able to point out.

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For some reason I disagree....
Could it be because the next sentence mentions confessing sins...

and the walking is in reference to the heart...setting the mind on the spiritual therefore the sin is the old habits that have yet to be transformed.....

1 John 1:9

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
For it seems that 1 key to jumping on top of sin is that the light exposes them. That way you recognize quickly and repent...as DW says "rethink your thinking"especially in reguards to kingdom living.

Dave-W said:

We grow in obedience year after year. But we still slip up unintentionally from time to time.

And how many saved born again believers actually hear His voice?


Faith comes by hearing the [rhema] word of God. A spoken word, not written.

Click to expand...

Fact is Jesus spoke the written word

RaymondG said:

So you are talking about sin you are unaware of, correct? sins that you or anyone outside would be able to point out...

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Take a look at John 3

20 For everyone who does evil deeds hates the light and does not come to the light, so that their deeds will not be exposed. 21 But the one wh o practices the truth comes to the light, so that it may be plain ly evident that his deeds have been done in God.

This...is why I disagreed earlier...pointing to this reference above


But I can be wrong.....makes for a good discussion

justbyfaith said:

Of course concerning commandment #4 our Lord Jesus has qualified obedience to the sabbath day commandment by telling us that it is lawful to do well on the sabbath; but to violate the sabbath by not consecrating a day of the week to worshipping the Lord would also be a sin in my book.

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If you turn computer on you actually aren ot keeping Sabbath because you are not allowed to make fire and most energy come from fuel so when you use it you are causing fire to be set up for that energy , if you really wanted to keep sabbath you can't even prepare food literally you have to sit and do nothing .

corinth77777 said:

Fact is Jesus spoke the written word

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I have no idea what you intend us to understand by this statement, which clearly has a meaning for you. Could you please unpack it for us.