Trump wants to start charging stores to accept food stamps

DaisyDay · Feb 13, 2018

camille70 said:
Trump's Budget Would Partly Replace Food Stamp Benefits With Canned Goods

More government control and less personal choice is a good thing when it comes to poor people who obviously can't be trusted to make choices for themselves - or they wouldn't be so poor, would they, hm?

The USDA said states would have flexibility to work out distribution, which could include home delivery or existing partnerships. The Commodity Supplemental Food Program works with local agencies which in turn partner with nonprofits to give out the food, often from distribution sites rather than by delivery.

I can't see home delivery working out very well either in terms of cost savings or being beneficial to the would-be recipients who would have to actually be home rather than at work or at school awaiting their food delivery.

Rion · Feb 13, 2018

Goonie said:
Except that they aren’t. You are confusing what is possible for food stamps to be used for, and what they actually are used for.

Foodstamps are abused, but not like that. The biggest problem is that people are punished if they do not use all of their allotted amount each month, by having it decreased. This causes people to 'trade' groceries for cash, by having someone go with them, do their shopping, and then the foodstamp user pays for it with their card. Then, out in the parking lot, etc. they are given the cash value of the foodstamps, with the purchaser saving taxes.

DaisyDay said:
More government control and less personal choice is a good thing when it comes to poor people who obviously can't be trusted to make choices for themselves - or they wouldn't be so poor, would they, hm?

I'm not defending the decision, but that's a bizarre argument. If someone else is paying for your food, it's not really your prerogative to complain about if you're getting brand X or Y.

Aryeh Jay · Feb 13, 2018

DaisyDay said:
More government control and less personal choice is a good thing when it comes to poor people who obviously can't be trusted to make choices for themselves - or they wouldn't be so poor, would they, hm?

If they are not smart enough to wisely invest the million dollar loan that everyone gets from their parents, well, can you really trust them to make any wise decisions?

cow451 · Feb 13, 2018

Rion said:
Foodstamps are abused, but not like that. The biggest problem is that people are punished if they do not use all of their allotted amount each month, by having it decreased. This causes people to 'trade' groceries for cash, by having someone go with them, do their shopping, and then the foodstamp user pays for it with their card. Then, out in the parking lot, etc. they are given the cash value of the foodstamps, with the purchaser saving taxes.

I'm not defending the decision, but that's a bizarre argument. If someone else is paying for your food, it's not really your prerogative to complain about if you're getting brand X or Y.

The biggest fraud is corrupt merchants that “trade” eligible for ineligible. Then there is likely some identity theft as in any program.

Having been poor, I will tell you that you have to sometimes game the system and pool resources.

And those of you acting like the poor have it so good, then break a few bones or get really sick or some other major misfortune and you’ll get to be in a reality show called SOL.

camille70 · Feb 13, 2018

Rion said:
Foodstamps are abused, but not like that. The biggest problem is that people are punished if they do not use all of their allotted amount each month, by having it decreased. This causes people to 'trade' groceries for cash, by having someone go with them, do their shopping, and then the foodstamp user pays for it with their card. Then, out in the parking lot, etc. they are given the cash value of the foodstamps, with the purchaser saving taxes.

I'm not defending the decision, but that's a bizarre argument. If someone else is paying for your food, it's not really your prerogative to complain about if you're getting brand X or Y.

With the number of health conditions and food allergies prevalent today, I can't see this being a good thing. Most canned goods are loaded with sodium. Plus you know the GOP will try to find a way for themselves or a friend to make money off of it. Providing the groceries, delivery service or something.

Rion · Feb 13, 2018

camille70 said:
With the number of health conditions and food allergies prevalent today, I can't see this being a good thing. Most canned goods are loaded with sodium. Plus you know the GOP will try to find a way for themselves or a friend to make money off of it. Providing the groceries, delivery service or something.

I didn't say I agreed with it. I said that her argument was bizarre.

cow451 said:
The biggest fraud is corrupt merchants that “trade” eligible for ineligible. Then there is likely some identity theft as in any program.

Having been poor, I will tell you that you have to sometimes game the system and pool resources.

And those of you acting like the poor have it so good, then break a few bones or get really sick or some other major misfortune and you’ll get to be in a reality show called SOL.

I don't doubt that there is corruption with the merchants. I just know that the 'gaming' of the system happens a lot, and does no one any favors.

cow451 · Feb 13, 2018

Rion said:
I don't doubt that there is corruption with the merchants. I just know that the 'gaming' of the system happens a lot, and does no one any favors.

Survival is not a made-for-tv show for the poor.

iluvatar5150 · Feb 13, 2018

camille70 said:
With the number of health conditions and food allergies prevalent today, I can't see this being a good thing. Most canned goods are loaded with sodium. Plus you know the GOP will try to find a way for themselves or a friend to make money off of it. Providing the groceries, delivery service or something.

This is basically a small-scale planned economy. Instead of allowing folks to decide for themselves how to allocate their resources among the goods they need the most, the government would be telling them what they need. This has never worked. Anybody who's ever signed up for a CSA/farm share and gotten basket after basket of swiss chard could tell you that. Yes, it could avoid some abuse, but it would likely open all sorts of other inefficiencies. Even food banks are adopting market-style systems to optimize how they allocate food resources among themselves, rather than allowing donors to dictate who gets what and when.

An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie
Free Markets Help Food Banks Feed More People | Charles Hughes

rambot · Feb 13, 2018

To any christian that supports this horse whollop. SHAME...

I will not post at length on the matter because i will get banned.

Ill stick to this;

rambot · Feb 13, 2018

Maybe trump should just tax churches. They service the poor too.

Maybe that is the one action of trumps that evangelicals would disagree with.

camille70 · Feb 13, 2018

iluvatar5150 said:
This is basically a small-scale planned economy. Instead of allowing folks to decide for themselves how to allocate their resources among the goods they need the most, the government would be telling them what they need. This has never worked. Anybody who's ever signed up for a CSA/farm share and gotten basket after basket of swiss chard could tell you that. Yes, it could avoid some abuse, but it would likely open all sorts of other inefficiencies. Even food banks are adopting market-style systems to optimize how they allocate food resources among themselves, rather than allowing donors to dictate who gets what and when.

An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie
Free Markets Help Food Banks Feed More People | Charles Hughes

I've seen very good points made against this. They would have to set up warehouses, packaging, pay people to distribute, costing money. Then you have people who are homeless or live in shelters where they can't bring in food. People with transportation needs if they have to pick it up, staying home waiting for a package instead of working, lost or stolen packages. Religious restrictions such as Jewish or Muslim citizens have. Not to mention vegans or people who have to avoid gluten etc. Often people with kids need portable foods to take in the car or on outings. Then you are affecting the local businesses.

This was my favorite:

Amy Argetsinger on Twitter

Shiloh Raven · Feb 13, 2018

rambot said:
To any christian that supports this horse whollop. SHAME...

I will not post at length on the matter because i will get banned.

Ill stick to this;

Great post and quote. I think you're spot on and the quote is too.

Shiloh Raven · Feb 13, 2018

rambot said:
Maybe trump should just tax churches. They service the poor too.

Maybe that is the one action of trumps that evangelicals would disagree with.

I can imagine the cries of outrage and moral indignation coming from the Religious Right if the slightest hint is mentioned about taxing churches. Trump won't upset his supporters like that.

iluvatar5150 · Feb 13, 2018

camille70 said:
I've seen very good points made against this. They would have to set up warehouses, packaging, pay people to distribute, costing money. Then you have people who are homeless or live in shelters where they can't bring in food. People with transportation needs if they have to pick it up, staying home waiting for a package instead of working, lost or stolen packages. Religious restrictions such as Jewish or Muslim citizens have. Not to mention vegans or people who have to avoid gluten etc. Often people with kids need portable foods to take in the car or on outings. Then you are affecting the local businesses.

This was my favorite:

Amy Argetsinger on Twitter

Oh yeah, right, the whole distribution thing. I forgot about that.

Grandpa2390 · Feb 13, 2018

camille70 said:
Donald Trump wants to charge retailers a fee for accepting food stamps as payment from the poor.

The food stamp fee would be reassessed every five years.

Budget office predicts $2.4 billion in new revenue from the fee, which is seen hurting independent grocers more than big chains.

Separately, the Trump administration is proposing $191 billion in cuts over the next decade to the food stamp program.

Read the rest @ Trump wants to start charging stores to accept food stamps

How does this make any sense?
somebody explain to me why a grocery store should pay extra taxes for products/services provided to the government?

I would understand an effort blocking people from using ebt on non-grocery products. like a beauty supply store in my town accepts ebt... but charging a store a tax to accept money from the government makes no sense. that's called robbery.

Rion · Feb 14, 2018

rambot said:
To any christian that supports this horse whollop. SHAME...

I will not post at length on the matter because i will get banned.

Ill stick to this;

Leaving aside the specifics, I don't think that most people oppose their taxes helping the poor. I think that they oppose stuff like this :

CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN · Feb 14, 2018

Grandpa2390 said:
How does this make any sense?
somebody explain to me why a grocery store should pay extra taxes for products/services provided to the government?

I would understand an effort blocking people from using ebt on non-grocery products. like a beauty supply store in my town accepts ebt... but charging a store a tax to accept money from the government makes no sense. that's called robbery.

Its just something to stop the poor from getting food, that they need. Nothing more. Stop wasting money on the poor. More money that could be spent on Trump. What next stop spending tax dollars on PBS .

Grandpa2390 · Feb 14, 2018

CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN said:
Its just something to stop the poor from getting food, that they need. Nothing more. Stop wasting money on the poor. More money that could be spent on Trump. What next stop spending tax dollars on PBS .

next thing on the agenda, PBS has to pay a tax for every viewer

FireDragon76 · Feb 14, 2018

Look up "food deserts". This is a terrible idea. There are already too few grocery stores serving poor communities.

Rion · Feb 14, 2018

Grandpa2390 said:
next thing on the agenda, PBS has to pay a tax for every viewer

Well that won't bring much in.

Trump wants to start charging stores to accept food stamps

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