Are professed Christians who deliberately practice sin saved?

Lily of Valleys said:

So if the people who got drunk at the Corinthians church was judged since it was a known sin to them, then it should be considered willful sinning according to your earlier post; however, the verse below seems to imply they were simply disciplined and will not be condemned along with the world...which means they were still saved despite that?

But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world. (1 Corinthians 11:32)​

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I don't believe they were aware that getting drunk was a sin, so then not willful.

Self control is one of the fruit of the Spirit, but it still needs time to grow.

Lily of Valleys said:

What if they do not agree with abortion being a sin? There are also homosexuals who do not agree with homosexual acts are sin. Are they considered to be sinning unknowingly, or sinning willfully?

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I believe since Christ died, the laws of God are written on everyone's heart. Just as in Romans 2 where a Gentile that does not have the written laws of God, but obeys his own conscience (where they are written). No one gets an abortion without guilt unless they are a psychopath. And a homosexual knows right from wrong, but let's their lust rule them, and God turns them over to their perversion.

Lily of Valleys said:

Do you consider what Cephas (Peter) did in Antioch as described in Galatians 2:11-14 as willfully sinning?

But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. For prior to the coming of certain men from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he began to withdraw and hold himself aloof, fearing the party of the circumcision. The rest of the Jews joined him in hypocrisy, with the result that even Barnabas was carried away by their hypocrisy. But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in the presence of all, “If you, being a Jew, live like the Gentiles and not like the Jews, how is it that you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews? (Galatians 2:11-14)

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Yes

bugkiller

Lily of Valleys said:

There are people in my family who claim to believe but do not have fruits to match their faith, it would be helpful for me to understand their spiritual situation to see if I have to do more to help them. Most people seem to be under the impression that once you get them to "nod" that means you will see them in heaven.

It also helps us to reflect on what it means by leading people to Christ. Do we just tell them once you believe and you will go to heaven, then our mission is accomplished, or to ask them to repent?

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No Jesus said make disciples. I do see this a major problem withing Christianity and especially organized religion. The cults put us to shame very badly.

bugkiller

Lily of Valleys said:

What if they do not agree with abortion being a sin? There are also homosexuals who do not agree with homosexual acts are sin. Are they considered to be sinning unknowingly, or sinning willfully?

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Now are you talking about Christians? Maybe you are talking about people who think they can hide by murder.

bugkiller

Lily of Valleys said:

You said earlier that it has to be known sin to them to be judged, if they were not aware, why were they judged then?

For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly. For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep. But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged. But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world. (1 Corinthians 11:29-32)​

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Jesus died to take away our sin. We are dead to the desire to sin, however, if we indulge in willful sin afterwards, and then partake of Christ's body and blood without first repenting, it is a slap in the face to Christ. We are not rightly discerning what Christ has done for us.

Lily of Valleys said:

But you said you don't believe they were aware that getting drunk was a sin, so then not willful.

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What I'm saying is everyone is at different levels of knowledge of sin.

What Paul is talking about goes far beyond the current issue of having a pot luck and some eat too much, not caring if others are fed or not. That is not the eternal issue. In Numbers 15 we see a sacrifice for UNINTENTIONAL SIN, in which part of it is a foreshadow of the Lord's Supper.

Note it doesn't cover willful sin (presumptuous sin - they killed them)

Numbers 15
that the whole congregation shall offer one young bull as a burnt offering, as a sweet aroma to the Lord, with its grain offering and its drink offering, according to the ordinance, and one kid of the goats as a sin offering. 25 So the priest shall make atonement for the whole congregation of the children of Israel, and it shall be forgiven them, for it was unintentional; they shall bring their offering, an offering made by fire to the Lord, and their sin offering before the Lord, for their unintended sin.

bugkiller said:

Last time I checked using the pronoun "we" includes self. If he was referring only to his congregation he would have said "you."

bugkiller

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Isn't he part of the congregation?

Lily of Valleys said:

Just to clarify if this is what you really meant, that those who are truly born of God cannot sin, therefore those who still sin are still the old men, not the new men, therefore are not saved?

Then what about those people at the Corinthian church that got drunk at Lord's Supper? I thought you brought it up to show that they are not to be condemned along with the world means they are saved but still could commit sin.

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As scripture says, there is the old man of the flesh, and it sins.
But God has created a new man of the Spirit and it does not sin, the new creation is in fellowship with the Father and can not sin since it is born of God. So at the same time exists inside one body 2 creatures the old and the new. The old consists of the flesh and the mind, the new consists of the Spirit.
The corinthians who sinned some died but they were saved. They had just chosen to not put off their old man.
Apostle John says this about the new man created by God in the Spirit that he can not sin.

1 John 3:8-9 New King James Version (NKJV)
8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.

9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
Apostle doctrine of John here is saying those who are born of God are in the Spirit and their new born spirit created according to righteousness and holiness does not and indeed can not sin. He who sins is of the devil, Christ will destroy those works, your body is dead because of sin, and is perishing and will be destroyed but the Spirit is life because of righteousness and you are a new creation in Christ and God will not destroy that work which he has done.

God preserves your mortal body because of His mercy, but it is going to destruction eventually.
Romans 8 is a good read to understand this, that you are NOT IN THE FLESH if you are in Christ, the real you that will endure as an age enduring spirit having everlasting life is born of God.
v5 -v8 describes the fate of those who are in the flesh, they are dead, and can not please God, contrasted with those of the Spirit who worship God in the Spirit and are alive and do please God, because God has made them born of God.
v9 -v11 describes born of God people who have the Spirit of God indwelling them. They are saved.

5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.

6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

Lily of Valleys said:

I understand what you are saying here, but you have not actually addressed my question. Those people who got drunk at the Lord's supper were only judged but not condemned with the world, which seems to imply they were saved.

But you said only those who sin knowingly (i.e. willfully sin) will be judged, since these people were judged, which means they have sinned knowingly, yet they are still saved?!

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They were still unrepentant, but 2 Corinthians shows they repented.

1stcenturylady said:

They were still unrepentant, but 2 Corinthians shows they repented.

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The ones who sinned here, some died. Perhaps they were repentant before their deaths, but still they physically died as a judgement against them for their sin.
But they were still saved since Paul says this discipline came from God so that they would not perish along with the world. v32 tells us these who were judged were saved by Him. v 30, says sleep, these ones even though judged and died are described as asleep, which means they were asleep in Christ, being judged, chastened even to the point of dying, but this was done so they would not perish, be condemned to hell along with the unsaved world.

1 Corinthians 11:27-32 New King James Version (NKJV)
Examine Yourself
27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup.
29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body.
30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep.
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged.
32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world.

sdowney717 said:

The ones who sinned here, some died. Perhaps they were repentant before their deaths, but still they physically died as a judgement against them for their sin.
But they were still saved since Paul says this discipline came from God so that they would not perish along with the world. v32 tells us these who were judged were saved by Him. v 30, says sleep, these ones even though judged and died are described as asleep, which means they were asleep in Christ, being judged, chastened even to the point of dying, but this was done so they would not perish, be condemned to hell along with the unsaved world.

1 Corinthians 11:27-32 New King James Version (NKJV)
Examine Yourself
27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup.
29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body.
30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep.
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged.
32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world.

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This is as much for us today as it was for them. And it had nothing to do with them eating and drinking their meal. The unworthy manner had to do with partaking while having committed willful sin. We all need to examine ourselves to see if our free will has caused us to revert back into willful sin. Has the Holy Spirit convicted us of something, and we did it anyway? That is willful and quenches the Spirit.