Post Tribulation Rapture

Andy centek

Seeker of Deep Truth
Supporter
Jan 6, 2018
470
95
86
mich
✟68,247.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Sorry Andy...I love your responses and will explore your blog myself...but Paul is speaking here to the Thesselonians (the Church...Jews and Gentiles one in messiah) and the "we" refers to him and them (mostly if not all were Gentiles).
PSJHUN2404
Tks. Yes, Paul was teaching a mixed group. Some believing Jews and all Gentiles that sought to know about Jesus Christ.
It is good that you pay attention to whom is being addressed were and when. That puts you ahead of most.

Andy Centek
 
Upvote 0

Andy centek

Seeker of Deep Truth
Supporter
Jan 6, 2018
470
95
86
mich
✟68,247.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Read the last part of Haggai chapter 2.
swords against each other
So we know that the 1000 years is yet in the future, because when it starts...swords will be beaten into plowshares.
This prophecy goes on to refer to a Governor. It does not seem to be about Zerubbabel, but the Messiah. After the time of swords against each other....the Messiah will be the Governor of the nations ===for the millennium.
 
Upvote 0

Andy centek

Seeker of Deep Truth
Supporter
Jan 6, 2018
470
95
86
mich
✟68,247.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
VINSIGHT4U:

I suggest that you learn about figures of speech which are used very often in Bible text. What you said about plow shares is one of these figures of speech. It is literal plowshares, it is a way of saying how things will be changed completely from what they are.
See E.W. Bullingers -- Figures Of Speech-- book. Beware, it is many, many pages on figures of speech in the Bible.
Andy Centek
 
Upvote 0

pshun2404

Newbie
Jan 26, 2012
6,026
620
✟78,299.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
PSJHUN2404
Tks. Yes, Paul was teaching a mixed group. Some believing Jews and all Gentiles that sought to know about Jesus Christ.
It is good that you pay attention to whom is being addressed were and when. That puts you ahead of most.

Andy Centek

Yes but this means these passages are concerning gentile Christians and not just Jewish Christians. Therefore the Church remains here on earth during the Anti-Christ's reign of terror. But in reality these designations (Jew and Gentile) are absurd and not applicable since the one new man (the Church) is neither, yet was created out of both. For example. I am of God. He is my Father. My human body is the one I was born with but I am no longer a mere temporal being I am an eternal being AND a temporal being, tho not two beings...one being with two natures (like Jesus).
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

pshun2404

Newbie
Jan 26, 2012
6,026
620
✟78,299.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
VINSIGHT4U:

I suggest that you learn about figures of speech which are used very often in Bible text. What you said about plow shares is one of these figures of speech. It is literal plowshares, it is a way of saying how things will be changed completely from what they are.
See E.W. Bullingers -- Figures Of Speech-- book. Beware, it is many, many pages on figures of speech in the Bible.
Andy Centek

Bullinger? Impressive bro....
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

pshun2404

Newbie
Jan 26, 2012
6,026
620
✟78,299.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Micah 4:13

“Arise and thresh, O daughter of Zion: for I will make thine horn iron, and I will make thy hoofs brass: and thou shalt beat in pieces many people: and I will consecrate their gain unto the LORD, and their substance unto the Lord of the whole earth.”

their gain
unto the Lord of the whole earth

Zechariah 14:14

“And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.”

Zechariah 14:16

“And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.”

summary
great trib over
the land of Israel rebuilds
she dwells safely
a great tumult happens -neighbor slays neighbor/brother with swords
Israel fights - gathers the plunder
the survivors/nations -must come to Jerusalem to worship the King
and keep the feast of tabernacles or they get no rain
Satan has been bound for 1000 years, but will be loosed later, and gather the nations for war..as in the final Gog attempt to take the holy
city
time passes - the tares/wicked still living people will be taken away by the angels to be burned -and first beaten-cut asunder
the wheat/sheep people will be given eternal life
the wicked dead will rise - and be cast into the lake of fire
they will be wailing and gnashing their teeth
new earth
the ones in flesh will go at specific times to view those that their worm/soul does not die in the lake of fire
they will be abhorred - like Daniel told - some rise - to shame and everlasting contempt. /contempt -abhorring

Nice presentation vinsight4u. Though all through history there has been reward and punishment of nations apparently some place these events in slightly different orders. I see very little difference between what you have posted and what Andy has. So let me ask you? In light of the OP (tho most of these address what happens in relation to the children of Israel) when does the alleged rapture take place? Before the Anti-Christ's part of the trib, after his but before God pours out His wrath, or after the entire Trib (his terror and the Lord's wrath)? Or is this not really clear?

Just curious, because I think we all agree that there is the 1,000 years of peace established (which some take literally and others symbolically) and then a second uprising before the New Heaven and New Earth come about. So is the "rapture" or gathering together with Him before it all? Somewhere in the middle? Or after it all?

Clearly Israel has returned to the land
Clearly it is a time of unwalled cities
Clearly they do not dwell in safety

Paul tells us that that day (the coming...when the catching up occurs) will not happen until two things occur:

a) the great apostasy (which I see as beginning in our time), and
b) the revealing of that son of perdition (the Anti-Christ)
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Andy centek

Seeker of Deep Truth
Supporter
Jan 6, 2018
470
95
86
mich
✟68,247.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Nice presentation vinsight4u. Though all through history there has been reward and punishment of nations apparently some place these events in slightly different orders. I see very little difference between what you have posted and what Andy has. So let me ask you? In light of the OP (tho most of these address what happens in relation to the children of Israel) when does the alleged rapture take place? Before the Anti-Christ's part of the trib, after his but before God pours out His wrath, or after the entire Trib (his terror and the Lord's wrath)? Or is this not really clear?

Just curious, because I think we all agree that there is the 1,000 years of peace established (which some take literally and others symbolically) and then a second uprising before the New Heaven and New Earth come about. So is the "rapture" or gathering together with Him before it all? Somewhere in the middle? Or after it all?

Clearly Israel has returned to the land
Clearly it is a time of unwalled cities
Clearly they do not dwell in safety

Paul tells us that that day (the coming...when the catching up occurs) will not happen until two things occur:

a) the great apostasy (which I see as beginning in our time), and
b) the revealing of that son of perdition (the Anti-Christ)
 
Upvote 0

Andy centek

Seeker of Deep Truth
Supporter
Jan 6, 2018
470
95
86
mich
✟68,247.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
As to this false tribulation thing that man has created. A close reading of Paul's writings will show that Paul, included himself in the taken up in his time!
A closer study of this rapture idea will also show that it came out of Europe in the not so distant past as another false teaching.
Those who really desire to know will seek it out. It is such a nice story, and a way out, that people buy into it easily.

I also suggest a very close reading of Isaiah 2-3. There you will see that it Israel who is the target, not the Gentile world.

I understand that it is hard to let go of such a picture that man has painted. I was there once. Praise God, He chose to deliver me out of it!
Andy Centek

 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

pshun2404

Newbie
Jan 26, 2012
6,026
620
✟78,299.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
As to this false tribulation thing that man has created. A close reading of Paul's writings will show that Paul, included himself in the taken up in his time!
A closer study of this rapture idea will also show that it came out of Europe in the not so distant past as another false teaching.
Those who really desire to know will seek it out. It is such a nice story, and a way out, that people buy into it easily.

I also suggest a very close reading of Isaiah 2-3. There you will see that it Israel who is the target, not the Gentile world.

I understand that it is hard to let go of such a picture that man has painted. I was there once. Praise God, He chose to deliver me out of it!
Andy Centek

Good insight and possibly a sound interpretation. "We" will be gathered together unto Him at the Parousia however (the We being all the Church...the dead in Christ and the alive at the time) and Paul may have thought it possible in his time, tho his own qualifiers (a and b above) had not yet come to pass before he did. No early church father wrote about "the rapture" and they were taught by the Apostles and those the Apostles had taught.
 
Upvote 0