Don't feed the heretics

Noxot said:

was thinking of this verse

Col 1:27 (YLT)
to whom God did will to make known what is the riches of the glory of this secret among the nations--which is Christ in you, the hope of the glory,

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Not sure how that verse fits into your first post i was responding to.

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brinny said:

Not sure how that verse fits into your first post i was responding to.

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i'm against it being a "black and white at first he was pure evil and then later he was good and saved" idea. rather I would say that saul was a mixture of good and evil and some things in him were truly devoted to God, while others were more malicious and leading him astray. when Christ came to him he started to be transformed to an even better state which when he saw Christ it blinded him just like before he saw God but it was blinding to him.

but I don't think it's a good idea to call people who are somewhat mislead as satanic heretics with no goodness in them. there are certainly elements in them that have "the devil as their father" but to think that the same people Jesus also said "you know me" are only the children of the devil, is not how reality is... because you know and I know that we all have good and bad in us and to think we are pure evil is a lie of the devil.

Noxot said:

i'm against it being a "black and white at first he was pure evil and then later he was good and saved" idea. rather I would say that saul was a mixture of good and evil and some things in him were truly devoted to God, while others were more malicious and leading him astray. when Christ came to him he started to be transformed to an even better state which when he saw Christ it blinded him just like before he saw God but it was blinding to him.

but I don't think it's a good idea to call people who are somewhat mislead as satanic heretics with no goodness in them. there are certainly elements in them that have "the devil as their father" but to think that the same people Jesus also said "you know me" are only the children of the devil, is not how reality is... because you know and I know that we all have good and bad in us and to think we are pure evil is a lie of the devil.

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The living God would disagree with you, as is stated in His Word. It was so dire that Jesus the Christ, His only begotten Son, was sent here to shed His blood and DIE for us, "sinners", as is written in John 3:16.

Noxot said:

paul rejected him until he did not.

yet God found something in him worth saving, which means that there are enemies in us and if they take control too much then we think we worship God but are being deceived. yet we are to have all animals in the ark, clean and unclean.

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Those who thought they had driven out demons in His name still were told that He knew them not. So that is scriptural.

Is there a difference in knowingly promoting herecy and mistakenly promoting heresy? Ultimately the result is the same. Misinformation, misdirection, and possible eternal damnation. So I think we need to take our advice and our research of scripture seriously. Let the Holy Spirit speak through us.

Thoughts?

Genesis Fishing said:

Is there a difference in knowingly promoting herecy and mistakenly promoting heresy? Ultimately the result is the same. Misinformation, misdirection, and possible eternal damnation. So I think we need to take our advice and our research of scripture seriously. Let the Holy Spirit speak through us.

Thoughts?

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but who defines what is heretical or not?
The conventional Christianity we have today was compiled, with the help of reason and prayer, by early leaders of the church, from the scripture available to them and the traditions that they inherited from the Apostles.
This underwent change and adaptation, to a considerable extent through the middle ages, and to a lesser extent into modern times.
From the time of the enlightenment very many new denominations have formed, and a lot of re-examination has taken place, but very few new heresies have been forthcoming. Largely it has been about the reappraisal of old concepts, that had been part of the earliest thoughts and practices of the earliest years of Christianity, some of which have been in dispute right up to the present day.

We have no undisputed, definitive and universal Christianity.
Differences in practice and belief are not necessarily heretical. Heretical and heterodox are terms describing differences between beliefs, they are a two way street where both sets of beliefs are in dispute by opposing sides in the argument. To declare something to be Heretical is to hold heretical counter beliefs your self, when seen by the opposing standpoint.

It seems almost certain, that when we take advice and research the scriptures seriously, and let the Holy Spirit speak through us, we are not all led to the same conclusions.
The Scriptures and the Holy spirit are not false, there must be a reason God chooses to guide us to differing paths to his Glory. Eternal damnation is unlikely to be any part of it.

It is more likely that we must learn to accept our differences, and that they are more a lesson in humility than heresy on anyone's part.

Genesis Fishing said:

Is there a difference in knowingly promoting herecy and mistakenly promoting heresy? Ultimately the result is the same. Misinformation, misdirection, and possible eternal damnation. So I think we need to take our advice and our research of scripture seriously. Let the Holy Spirit speak through us.

Thoughts?

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I can guarantee that you are an heretic to some other Christians perhaps many other Christians. I know that I am an heretic several times over because I have been informed so right here in these forums. Never compromise your spiritual and intellectual integrity to conform to someone else's expectations.

Hey appreciate y’all giving me more stuff to chew on!

What I was getting at was more of doctrines that do not or very loosely adhere to the great tradition, not necessarily the diffence in denominations. Like fringe sects or cults... Also, maybe somebody that knows just enough to get in trouble but doesn’t have the whole picture professing heresy.

Genesis Fishing said:

Is there a difference in knowingly promoting herecy and mistakenly promoting heresy? Ultimately the result is the same. Misinformation, misdirection, and possible eternal damnation. So I think we need to take our advice and our research of scripture seriously. Let the Holy Spirit speak through us.

Thoughts?

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I think that there would be a difference between mistakenly promoting heresy and knowing promoting heresy, as God can see our hearts.

Also, God can mitigate the effect of any presentation of heresy, whatever the reason.

Which is not to say that we shouldn't be as fully studied up and trying our best to avoid promoting heresy ...

"Study to show thyself approved unto God. A workman that needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of truth." 2 Timothy 2:15

Could you translate this with Aaron’s sons burning the wrong incense? was that intentional or simple mistake?

The way I kinda take it is God is obviously a loving God, but when it comes to his Holiness Hes pretty strict... is there more depth to Aaron’s sons?

1 Corinthians 16:22
22 If anyone does not love the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be accursed. O Lord, come!

Galatians 1:8-9
8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.
9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

Read 1 Peter 2 and Jude 1:4-19

Matthew 7:14-15
14 Because straight is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leads unto life, and few there be that find it.
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

thesunisout said:

We have an absolute standard; Gods word. If you contradict Gods word, you are a heretic. If you say Jesus was not an atonement for sins, when the word says He was, you're a heretic. If you say Jesus is not God, when the word says that He is God, you're a heretic. If you say we don't need to baptized, when the word says we need to be baptized, you're a heretic. There are people out there teaching all of these things today.

Paul spoke about this:

2 Corinthians 11:4

For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough.

There is another Jesus, another spirit, and another gospel..and there are millions of backslidden Christians and wicked men promoting them. They think they are doing good by eliminating Gods judgment, Gods holiness, and His standards from scripture. They want to believe in a God that doesn't require anything from man and they make the sacrifice of Jesus Christ null and void.

It isn't vague at all; the scripture is clear about what it is saying. There are some doctrines, like the rapture which we can have some doubts about and honest disagreements. But there are some doctrines, like the substitutionary atonement, which we should have no doubts about, and anyone teaching otherwise is a heretic.

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Yes this is what I was getting at! Thank you for putting it into words I was having trouble with!

JackRT said:

I do not think that there is a Christian alive today who is not a heretic to some other Christians. I certainly am a heretic several times over to some here. I no longer worry overmuch about it. Mostly I just feel sorry for the finger pointers.

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Christians need to keep in mind that none of us are right about everything. Then ask ourselves if we want to be treated the way we treat others we disagree with. It helps keep everything in perspective.