Catholic Forum: 10 reasons why the Pentecostals are whooping the Catholics

Michie said:

I see flaws in all faith groups and its followers. When I joined the RCC, I thought it would be much more united than it is in reality. Catholics interpret or ignore the Catechism the same way Protestants do Scripture. While we may hold the fullness of faith, there is not a lot of difference between us if we are going to be honest. Thank God for dogma.

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Wow - I thought it was just me! I have been trying to convert to Catholicism - been thru RCIA after three tries. Once I got an inside look at things it seems just as mixed up as the protestant world, only all under one roof.

I ran into the RE director and figured I'd talk to her about my questions, and was pretty much told "We don't believe all that stuff, we are cafeteria Catholics here". And this same person told the priest something like - Don't tell me you think all these people use the rhythm method.

And the priest has been a supporter of non-prolife candidates.

In reality my old Baptist church was a lot more united on issues.

Find another Parish is my suggestion to you Markie.

In our Parishes here everyone is united in our Lord Jesus Christ in our Lords Holy Divine Catholic Church and within Him in His Blessed Holy Sacraments - it gets back to one's own relationship with our Lord Jesus Christ in hearts - then spread out to others - receiving our Lord Jesus Christ into our hearts in Holy Communion in Him, in Holy Spirit, in God our Heavenly Father and in our Most Holy Blessed Virgin Mother Mary. We have excellent Priests here whom receive our Lord Jesus into their hearts focussing on our Lord Jesus Christ's Bitter Passion, His Cross and Holy Scripture, deeply in love honour respect of our Lord Jesus Christ and excellent with people/parishioners focussing on Gods Holy Word - religion in itself is not really talked about at all here. Everything is focussed on our Lord Jesus Christ His Love, Mercy and Righteousness.

And that's been for well over 20 years here - excellent priests and religious here with the other issues dealt with by our Lord Jesus Christ, Holy Spirit and Most Holy Mother Mary in God our Heavenly Father.

It gets back to people caught up in Religious things not focussing on going deeper in prayer and love and trust in our Lord Jesus Christ - to receive Jesus into hearts and going to Holy Confession and Holy Communion receiving Him, His Holy Divine Heavenly Gifts, Blessings and Graces - praying and talking to Jesus in complete trust to receive Him - the religious things are not important - praying for our Lords Holy Divine Catholic Church is more important immersing Her in our Lord Jesus Holy Sacred Wounds and Precious Blood - She will always be fine and led by our Lord Jesus Christ in full UNITY in Him, with Him with our Most Holy Blessed Virgin Mother Mary.

Build up your relationships with our Lord Jesus Christ and our Most Holy Blessed Virgin Mother Mary first and foremost forgetting what the Priest or other Parishioners views are in their religiousity.

The Priest's Bishop needs to be made aware of this if indeed fact.

All of our Lord Jesus Holy Spirits and Most Holy Mother Marys Priests should in their hearts be opposed strongly to abortion/the taking of lives.

All of them.

All the best Markie

Tallguy88 said:

It's not stealing if they leave of their own free will. Step up your game if you want to retain these members. They are leaving for a reason.


Where are you getting this belief that Pentecostals believe they are the only ones who are saved? Here's what they actually believe:

5. THE SALVATION OF MAN
Man's only hope of redemption is through the shed blood of Jesus Christ the Son of God.

Conditions to Salvation

Salvation is received through repentance toward God and faith toward the Lord Jesus Christ. By the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, being justified by grace through faith, man becomes an heir of God, according to the hope of eternal life.

• Luke 24:47 [KJV/NIV]
• John 3:3 [KJV/NIV]
• Romans 10:13-15 [KJV/NIV]
• Ephesians 2:8 [KJV/NIV]
• Titus 2:11 [KJV/NIV]
• Titus 3:5-7 [KJV/NIV]

The Evidence of Salvation

The inward evidence of salvation is the direct witness of the Spirit.

• Romans 8:16 [KJV/NIV]

The outward evidence to all men is a life of righteousness and true holiness.

• Ephesians 4:24 [KJV/NIV]
• Titus 2:12 [KJV/NIV]

Assemblies of God (USA) Official Web Site | Assemblies of God 16 Fundamental Truths

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Hello Tallguy,

The Pentecostal Evangelicals, especially the Assemblies of God Pentecostals, I have run into, have the ‘Assurance’ of salvation, ‘Once Saved, Always Saved’ belief mixed in with Martin Luther’s ‘Sin Boldly’. Jesus, on the other hand, Commands us to Obey the Commandments if we wish to inherit eternal life. Jesus tells us that He will Judge people into, or out of, heaven, based on our conduct.

To love Jesus and the God the Father is to obey God. Through God’s gift of free will, mankind has the tremendous opportunity to choose to love God through obedience to God. Jesus says he is going to judge mankind; those who love Jesus through obedience to God, with all their heart, Jesus says He will bring into heaven. Those who hate Jesus through un-repentance and sin, Jesus says He is going to burn in hell.

I see the Pentecostals as directly opposing God’s Plan to produce a kingdom of human free willed love for God. What do you think?

In all honesty I have read many many comments from both Pentecost and SDA religions on here with other Christians of whom believe it is not necessary to receive our Lord's Blessed Holy Sacraments of Holy Confession and Holy Communion in addition to falsely believing - falsely in terms of inaccurately false because they know not what they are thinking - that they are saved by Jesus dying on The Cross for us without repentance of sins to Jesus and not realising that it is our Lord Jesus in Holy fact that said to His Disciples:

"Repent and believe in the Good News" and;

"whatever sins are loosed on earth are loosed in Heaven" and
"whatever sins are forgiven on earth are forgiven in Heaven" - through His Disciples/His Priests not pastors/ministers. Through His Priests of whom God The Most High chose in our Lord Jesus Christ, Saint Peter and His other Disciples with Jesus Holy Word saying:

"You are Peter and on this rock I will build My Church".

And our Lord Jesus Christ has - His Roman Catholic Church of which our Lord Jesus Christ is truly Present at His Altars, in His Blessed Holy Divine Sacrament and in His Holy Tabernacle with God The Most High's Holy Word in His Old Testament showing His Priests including Holy Aaron with Moses exactly His Holy Specifications, Holy Designs, Holy of Holies to be built in His Church/His Son's Church of which is in our Lord Jesus Christ's Blessed Holy Sacred Heart, because Jesus said to Holy Saint Faustina that His Church is His Sacred Heart, with His Holy Blessings Gifts and Graces in Himself contained within His Holy Divine Heavenly Eucharist of which Jesus changes from bread in every Holy Mass physically and Spiritually Present.

And then there are Christians - some Baptists - with differing beliefs whom shun our Lord Jesus Christ on The Cross forbidding any person to wear Jesus on The Cross and or display our Lord Jesus on The Cross along with so many Christians here whom have insulted and degraded God The Most Highs Holy Divine Favoured Daughter Whom God our Heavenly Father from the very beginning made Most Holy Mother Mary Holy Divine Queen of Heaven and Gifted us with Most Holy Mother Mary to intercede through Prayers and Holy Works - whom do you all think worked from up in Holy Heaven implementing our Lords Holy Saints Holy Sisters/Nuns and Priests and Religious and each Pope? Whom loved and supported and Graced those Holy Saints now in Heaven? Whom interceded with them all when at various times in between Holy Confessions these Nuns/Priests receiving our Lord Jesus Christ into their hearts and appearing to them were not in a state of Grace at various times?

Protestants well many of them appear to have deliberately missed reading the History of The Catholic Church and turn away from reading our Lord Jesus Holy Words of which directly reflect His Holy Word in relation to God The Most Highs Holy Saints in Heaven His Catholic Religious while here on earth. They also tend to avoid the Holy Facts in Gods Holy Word when our Lord Jesus Christ said to Holy Saint John - for all mankind - by the way:

"John here is your Mother"
- Mother of all our Lords Priests and Religious and His Holy Catholic Church

"Mother here is your Son"
- for our Most Holy Blessed Virgin Mother knowing that our Lord Jesus God Holy Spirit had bestowed upon Her the Love and Care for eternity all of Gods Priests and Religious

Because...Jesus descended to Earth from Heaven and was Present at the very beginning when God The Most High was laying the Foundations of His Earth. Jesus is and was God The Most High and Holy Spirit ONE in Him from the beginning born of the WORD Incarnate and became Man. In our Lords Old Testament God said our Lord Jesus was Present at the very beginning laying the foundations of the Earth. Many Priests and Prophets received Holy Visits from our Lord Jesus Christ appearing to them including Daniel among others.


For too long people including Christians have lost the Holy fact that our Lord Jesus Christ has appeared to thousands of His Holy Saints now in Heaven - the majority of whom are all Catholic and mentioned in Gods Holy Word from the very beginning. Many Christians are oblivious to the Holy Fact that it is Gods Holy Saints in Heaven whom intercede through our Lord Jesus Christ Holy Spirit and through Most Holy Mother Mary for us - in particular for those of whom are Catholic and include beseechings in prayers including our Lord Jesus Christs Holy Saints to pray for us and with us. Indeed Jesus said to Holy Saint Marie Chambon among thousands of His Holy Saints to include them in all of our prayers to pray for us and with us.

Everything I have prayed for last year including so many Holy Saints through our Lord Jesus Christ Holy Spirit and through Most Holy Mother Mary always - are heard, responded and answered. Every Holy Divine Mercy Chaplet, Holy Wound Chaplet, The Most Holy Rosary with so much Holy Divine Protection Holy Blessings Holy Graces received from Most Holy Mother Mary that if people only knew - what they are missing and what their families are missing. Love Jesus and Love Most Holy Mother Mary - for you are being so abundantly Blessed by Most Holy Mother Mary and Her Holy Saints in Heaven Gifted by God The Most High through our Lord Jesus Christ and His Mercy in Holy Spirit. And people will be horrified to realise that when passing over it is our Most Holy Blessed Virgin Mother Mary of Whom has interceded in our lives here and does this eternally and visits Holy Purgatory with Her Loving Holy Heavenly Graces and Refreshments while being cleansed in fiery Furnacy Heat sometimes for years with no escaping it save prayers from people here and Holy Masses in our Lords and Most Holy Mother Mary's Catholic Church offered up through our Lords and Most Holy Mother Marys Priests

With our Lords Holy Saints all mentioned in Gods Holy Word previously to living here - His Catholic Saints.

In all of our Lord Jesus Christ's Holy messages to His Holy Saints, all reflected in Gods Holy Word in particular our Lords Holy Words in relation to His Holy Divine Heavenly Catholic Church.

The abuse in the Catholic Church particularly during the era of the 1970s - Jesus Holy Spirit and our Most Holy Blessed Virgin Mother Mary warned to the Holy Saints of God's that our Lords Catholic Church, if not prayed for in the Most Holy Rosary was going to be dreadfully attacked by satan and that by praying The Most Holy Rosary - by congregations each generation many things could be averted by God.

With the changing of eras and freedom and lax legislations of each Government in each Nation and the cessation of The Most Holy Rosary being prayed by many Catholics around the world; satan had a field day with the Catholic Church attacking Gods Priests and Religious whom unwittingly fell into satans hands.

When our Lord Jesus delivered His Holy Divine Mercy Chaplet/Novena of which includes a most Holy special Prayer in it including His Priests and Religious prayed world wide by many Catholics and Christians I have heard recently are also praying our Lords Holy Divine Mercy Chaplet, our Lord has dealt with those handfuls of priests here and in a few other places, expelling the evil from His Holy Divine Catholic Church along with The Most Holy Rosary now being prayed over the past ten years here more greatly and fervently by many Catholic Parishioners.

And God Himself warned His Children of Fatima that satan would be attacking our Lords Catholic Church along with other Holy Saints each generation because satan knows only too well that without people/hearts/souls receiving our Lord Jesus God our Heavenly Father and Holy Spirit - Himself in His Blessed Holy Sacraments, both in Holy Confession and Holy Communion and of course Holy Baptism and Holy Reconciliation - then souls without receiving Jesus Mercy cannot be saved and satan drags those souls to hell after death.

Jesus said without hearts/souls repenting to Him in Holy Confession where Jesus says He stands behind His Priests giving Holy Divine Absolution/Forgiveness and without receiving Him from hearts in Holy Communion souls cannot be forgiven when being judged by God The Most with our Lord Jesus Christ and Holy Spirit.

People need to urgently do their souls a favour to make either Holy Heaven or Holy Purgatory and avoid Hell by running to Jesus and His Mercy repenting sins from hearts to Him in remorse and sorrow in Holy Confession in His Catholic Church where our Lord Jesus Christ is truly Present.

We were supposed to pray The Most Holy Rosary each century for all of Gods Priests and Religious, to offer up for them, to support them, to keep an eye on them in every Parish City Country area around the world. Many of the Saints/Nuns were delivered our Lords Holy Divine Heavenly Prayers right back to 1214 and 1216 from God Himself through our Lord Jesus Christ Holy Spirit and through our Most Holy Blessed Virgin Mother Mary with Jesus appearing to Holy Saint Marie Chambon in the early 1900s with His Holy Wound Chaplet and large volumes of our Lord Jesus, God The Most High, Holy Spirits and Most Holy Mother Mary's Holy Messages for Catholics and Christians and mankind to immerse our Lords Priests and Religious in His Holy Sacred Wounds and Precious Holy Blood daily/regularly for them to be protected from satan and his evil spirits.

God delivered to Holy Saint Dominic The Most Holy Rosary to be prayed for all of His Priests and Religious with God Himself saying:

"It is the greatest weapon against satan" and

"The last mean/s of Salvation"

With our Lord Jesus Christ again recently appearing to a Bishop over in Africa with The Most Holy Rosary coming out of our Lord Jesus Christs Sword in His Mouth changing into Holy Heavenly Rosary Beads with our Lord Jesus saying to the Bishop

Boko Haram gone (the terrorist organisation whom had been bothering the Parish and region) get your Parish to pray The Holy Rosary to My Mother". Bishop Doeme did this and straight afterwards Boko Haram never returned near their Parish or region.

"The greater the trust in Me, the greater My Generosity" our Lord Jesus said to Holy Saint Faustina of whom received our Lord's God The Most Highs Holy Spirits Holy Divine Mercy Chaplet and Novena as Catholics on here would know in the 1930s. Did you know that in the street where houses were bombed, where our Lord Jesus Holy Divine Mercy Images were placed, those houses remained standing with no one hurt? It is our Lord Jesus Christ of Whom said to Holy Saint Faustina that where His Holy Divine Mercy Images are placed He will more greatly protect and Bless those in their homes and will more greatly Bless and protect those whom trust in Him completely and spread Devotion to His Holy Divine Mercy, to our Most Holy Blessed Virgin Mother Mary and Holy Mother Mary's Most Holy Rosary with 15 Holy Divine Promises from God in Heaven attached through Most Holy Mother Mary and I have received so many in abundance that I could write a book myself about our Lord Jesus Christ and Most Holy Mother Mary in my relationship with our Lord Jesus Christ and my relationship with our Most Holy Blessed Virgin Mother Mary - so very very sad people are missing out all over the world when all they had to do was pray our Most Holy Blessed Virgin Mother Marys Most Holy Rosary to really deeply receive our Lord Jesus Christ into hearts in Holy Unity in Holy Communion with Him and know some of the Holy Divine Heavenly things that our Lord Jesus Christ does up there and here with Most Holy Mother Mary.

There is God our Heavenly Fathers Holy Wound Chaplet He delivered to Holy Saint Marie Chambon without the Catholic Creed included yet few interested on here in our Lord Jesus Holy Wound Chaplet and Holy Words directly reflecting His Holy Word

Our Lord Jesus Holy Sacred Divine Wounds and Precious Holy Blood is what saves us our Lord Jesus Christ said to His Holy Saints/Nuns each century yet few turn to Jesus and His Holy Sacred Wounds and Precious Holy Blood nor do they receive Him in His Holy Communion and in His Holy Confession.

Three of the Holy Divine Ways through our Lord Jesus Christ and Holy Spirit, God to receive our Lord Jesus Christs Mercy of which Protestants and many Christians disagree

Jesus Holy Divine Heavenly Rays - the Pale Holy Ray and the Red Holy Ray to receive His Mercy for those whom turn to our Lord Jesus Christ in repentance of sins to Him in remorse and in humility through His Holy Confession in His Catholic Church

Through Prayer immersing one's heart and soul in our Lord Jesus Most Holy Sacred Wounds and Precious Holy Blood with repentance of sins to our Lord Jesus Christ

Through receiving our Lord Jesus Christ Himself in His Holy Communion - His Holy Divine Flesh and Holy Precious Blood in His Holy Catholic Church with repentance of sins made to our Lord Jesus Christ in Holy Confession

While reading Gods Holy Word daily - most importantly opening our hearts to receive our Lord Jesus Christ in complete Love and trust in Him and being in Unity with Him while walking in His Righteousness.

Storing up our Treasures for Holy Heaven

Works of Mercy
Deed
Prayer
By Word

Without a relationship with our Lord Jesus Christ and loving and trusting Him we don't have much for any hope of salvation firstly.

Jesus said He will ignore those whom have ignored Him while living here on earth.

Therefore the time spent on the earthly things and time not spent with our Lord Jesus Christ receiving Him into hearts - is perhaps the time our Lord Jesus will give to us passing over and eternally.

The mercy we have shown to others is the measure of Mercy God gives us when passing over.

Therefore Jesus should be our number one Priority daily.
Families are second, spouses are second, people are second.
Luxuries, wants, earthly things - out the window.

Because when Jesus appeared to His Holy Saints and our Most Holy Mother Mary appeared to Her Holy Saints in God our Heavenly Father, our Lord Jesus said that we are supposed to be focussing on Him and His Bitter Passion, His Life, His Sorrows, Most Holy Mother Mary's sorrows and sufferings at the Foot of The Cross, His humble Life and that of our Most Holy Blessed Virgin Mother Mary's Life with Jesus saying He was the new Adam and our Most Holy Blessed Virgin Mother Mary the new eve. These Holy Words of our Lord Jesus Christ delivered to Holy Saint Marie Chambon.

Our Lord Jesus also said to Holy Saint Marie Chambon to always ask for His Holy Mother Marys Loving Holy Intercession, to include Holy Mother Mary in all prayers and ask to Hold Her Hand beseeching God The Most High on the strength of His Bitter Passion and for God The Most High to look upon His Holy Sacred Wounds and through His Precious Blood, Sorrows torments agonies and upon His Holy Divine Countenance The Most Holy Face of Jesus for all causes prayed asking for Holy Saint Chambons intercession and storming Holy Heaven for all prayers, Gods Holy Angels, Holy Saints, Holy Souls in Heaven to pray for us and with us for the world, immersing the world in His Holy Sacred Wounds and Precious Holy Blood.

And few Protestants and Christians non Catholics wish to hear about Gods Holy Saints now in heaven, mentioned in Gods Holy Word from the very beginning.

StevenMerten said:

Hello Tallguy,

The Pentecostal Evangelicals, especially the Assemblies of God Pentecostals, I have run into, have the ‘Assurance’ of salvation, ‘Once Saved, Always Saved’ belief mixed in with Martin Luther’s ‘Sin Boldly’. Jesus, on the other hand, Commands us to Obey the Commandments if we wish to inherit eternal life. Jesus tells us that He will Judge people into, or out of, heaven, based on our conduct.

To love Jesus and the God the Father is to obey God. Through God’s gift of free will, mankind has the tremendous opportunity to choose to love God through obedience to God. Jesus says he is going to judge mankind; those who love Jesus through obedience to God, with all their heart, Jesus says He will bring into heaven. Those who hate Jesus through un-repentance and sin, Jesus says He is going to burn in hell.

I see the Pentecostals as directly opposing God’s Plan to produce a kingdom of human free willed love for God. What do you think?

Assurance is a Protestant Christian doctrine that states that the inner witness of the Holy Spirit allows the justified disciple to know that he or she is saved. Based on the writings of St. Augustine of Hippo, assurance was historically a very important doctrine in Lutheranism and Calvinism, and remains a distinguishing doctrine of Wesleyanism and Methodism.

Quoted from: Assurance (theology) - Wikipedia

Perseverance of the saints (also referred to as eternal security as well as the similar but distinct doctrine known as "Once Saved, Always Saved") is a teaching that asserts that once persons are truly "born of God" or "regenerated" by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, nothing in heaven or earth "shall be able to separate (them) from the love of God" (Romans 8:39) resulting in a reversal of the converted condition….

….There are also many non-Calvinists who also maintain that a person who is saved can never be lost. This Free Grace or non-traditional Calvinist doctrine is found predominantly in "free will" Baptist theology, but also other Protestant churches of the evangelical tradition.

The doctrine of Perseverance of the Saints is distinct from the doctrine of Assurance, which describes how a person may first be sure that they have obtained salvation and an inheritance in the promises of the Bible including eternal life.

Quoted from: Perseverance of the saints - Wikipedia

Martin Luther’s ‘Sin Boldly’​

13."If you are a preacher of Grace, then preach a true, not a fictitious grace; if grace is true, you must bear a true and not a fictitious sin. God does not save people who are only fictitious sinners. Be a sinner and sin boldly, but believe and rejoice in Christ even more boldly. For he is victorious over sin, death, and the world. As long as we are here we have to sin. This life in not the dwelling place of righteousness but, as Peter says, we look for a new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. . . . Pray boldly-you too are a mighty sinner." (Weimar ed. vol. 2, p. 371; Letters I, "Luther's Works," American Ed., Vol 48. p. 281- 282)

13. If you are a preacher of mercy, do not preach an imaginary but the true mercy. If the mercy is true, you must therefore bear the true, not an imaginary sin. God does not save those who are only imaginary sinners. Be a sinner, and let your sins be strong, but let your trust in Christ be stronger, and rejoice in Christ who is the victor over sin, death, and the world. We will commit sins while we are here, for this life is not a place where justice resides. We, however, says Peter (2. Peter 3:13) are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth where justice will reign. It suffices that through God's glory we have recognized the Lamb who takes away the sin of the world. No sin can separate us from Him, even if we were to kill or commit adultery thousands of times each day. Do you think such an exalted Lamb paid merely a small price with a meager sacrifice for our sins? Pray hard for you are quite a sinner.

Quoted from: Martin Luther: Sin Boldly | Page 1 of 1


Matthew 19:16
"Teacher, what good must I do to possess everlasting life?" He answered, "Why do you question me about what is good? There is One who is good. If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments." "Which ones?" he asked. Jesus replied "You shall not kill"; 'You shall not commit adultery'; 'You shall not steal'; 'You shall not bear false witness'; 'Honor your father and mother'; and 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'"

John 5:27
"The Father has given over to him power to pass judgment because he is Son of Man; no need for you to be surprised at this, for an hour is coming in which all those in their tombs shall hear his voice and come forth. Those who have done right shall rise to live; the evildoers shall rise to be damned."

Matthew 16:27
The Son of Man will come with his angels. When He does, he will repay each man according to his conduct.

John 15:10
"You will live in my love if you keep my commandments, even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and live in his love."

Matthew 25:31
"And he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will place the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. Then the king will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me, naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.'...

...Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.'...

...'Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.' And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

1 John 5:3
For the love of God is this, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome,

NAB2 JOH 14:15
If you love me, you will keep my commandments.

John 15:22
"If I had not come to them and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; now, however, their sin cannot be excused. To hate me is to hate my Father. Had I not performed such works among them as no one has ever done before, they would not be guilty of sin; but as it is, they have seen, and they go on hating me and my Father."

Deuteromomy 30:19
"I call heaven and earth today to witness against you: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. Choose life, then, that you and your descendants may live, by loving the LORD, your God, heeding his voice, and holding fast to him."

Matthew 7:12
" . . . treat others the way you would have them treat you: this sums up the law and the prophets. Enter through the narrow gate. The gate that leads to damnation is wide, the road is clear, and many choose to travel it. But how narrow is the gate that leads to life, how rough the road, and how few there are who find it!"

Dueteronomy 30:15 The Choice before Israel.
"Here then, I have today set before you life and prosperity, death and doom. If you obey the commandments of the LORD, your God, which I enjoin on you today, loving him, and walking in his ways, and keeping his commandments, statutes and decrees, you will live and grow numerous, and the LORD, your God, will bless you in the land you are entering to occupy."

Sirach 15:11 Man's Free Will.
Say not: "It was God's doing that I fell away"; for what he hates he does not do. Say not: "It was he who set me astray"; for he has no need of wicked man. Abominable wickedness the LORD hates, he does not let it befall those who fear him. When God, in the beginning, created man, he made him subject to his own free choice. If you choose you can keep the commandments; it is loyalty to do his will. There are set before you fire and water; to whichever you choose, stretch forth your hand. Before man are life and death, whichever he chooses shall be given him.​

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This is the exact opposite of what Pentecostals believe. They explicitly reject once saved always saved. They believe, just like Catholics, that you can backslide and lose your salvation by sinning.

Maybe do a Wikipedia check on them before you continue to spread obvious falsehoods.

Tallguy88 said:

This is the exact opposite of what Pentecostals believe. They explicitly reject once saved always saved. They believe, just like Catholics, that you can backslide and lose your salvation by sinning.

Maybe do a Wikipedia check on them before you continue to spread obvious falsehoods.

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Hello Tallguy,
I am relaying, in the field, eye eyewitness accounts from events in my life. What? You think the Pentecostals have never tried to 'save' me? When a fellow, non-Catholic, Christian wants to talk about Jesus with me, I say, Great!

Answer: Pentecostalism is a fairly modern movement within Christianity that can be traced back to the Holiness movement in the Methodist Church. A major focus of Pentecostal churches is Holy Spirit baptism as evidenced by speaking in tongues. There are approximately 170 different denominations that identify themselves as Pentecostal.

Toward the end of the 19th century, there was a dramatic rise in religious fervor as various groups anticipated the end of history and the return of Christ in 1900. Much of this fervor was driven by the revival meetings held by those in the Holiness movement, and there were occasional reports of people speaking in tongues. The first widespread use of tongues was at a revival in Topeka, Kansas, in January 1900, led by Charles Parham. Agnes Ozman, a Methodist, began to speak in tongues, and others in the meeting eventually followed suit. In 1906, a series of revival meetings on Azusa Street in Los Angeles led to a widespread experience of tongues-speaking, which spread to many parts of the country. The meetings were led by William Seymour, one of Charles Parham's students. Parham and Seymour eventually parted ways, because Parham believed many of the manifestations of Azusa Street were of the flesh, or perhaps even demonic. By 1909, Seymour had excluded all but African-Americans from holding office in the mission, and the ministry eventually faded into history.

Though the Azusa Street mission had a brief life, its impact on the Pentecostal movement has been a lasting one. Many new churches and missions were founded across America which carried the new emphasis on seeking the baptism of the Spirit as evidenced by speaking in tongues. Today, there are over 200,000,000 denominational Pentecostals and another 200,000,000 who identify themselves as Pentecostal or charismatic in mainline churches.

There are three main divisions within the Pentecostal movement. The original group which came out of the Holiness churches (Methodist and Nazarene), sees three progressive steps in the life of a believer which indicate growth and blessing. The first step is justification, which is the forgiveness of sins that comes from putting faith in Jesus Christ. The second step is sanctification, or the second blessing, which was first taught by John Wesley in his “A Plain Account of Christian Perfection” (1766). The essence of this doctrine is an inner purity of heart and an infusion of power, whereby the believer no longer practices sin. This is sometimes followed by the third step, the “baptism of the Spirit,” as evidenced by speaking in tongues or other signs. The Church of God in Christ and the Church of God, Cleveland, Tennessee, are two major denominations in this group.

The second division is comprised of those who came out of a Baptist background, but were heavily influenced by the Holiness revivals of the late 1800s. The Assemblies of God was founded in 1914 under the leadership of Eudorus N. Bell, who had been a Southern Baptist pastor. The key difference in doctrine for this group is that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is available for anyone, regardless of attaining sanctification.

The third division is the Oneness Pentecostals. At the meeting which formed the Church of God in Christ (1914), there was intense debate over Trinitarian doctrine. While the majority of Holiness believers held to the traditional belief in the Trinity, there was a growing group which held to a modalist belief and affirmed that baptism should be done in Jesus' name only. Another tenet of this group is the necessity of speaking in tongues as evidence of salvation. This group was to form the United Pentecostal Church and the Apostolic Pentecostal Church, among others.

What are we to make of this movement? The early Holiness believers recognized that Christianity ought to result in visible changes in a person's life. The focus of many early prayer meetings was to “throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles” (Hebrews 12:1). These earnest believers wanted to run their race faithfully and were seeking God's help to do so. As that earnestness gave way to emotional religious fervor, doctrines were developed to explain and support the emotions and experiences. For many today, the emphasis is on the excitement, the experience, or the new word of prophecy. Some of the questionable foundations laid by John Wesley (e.g., a second blessing of perfection) paved the way for later Pentecostal doctrines of new works of the Spirit. Some Pentecostals allow experience to trump scriptural teaching and attempt to conform Scripture to what they “know by experience.” But fervent experience, even when it involves miracles, is not the test of true faith (see Matthew 7:22–23). Peter affirmed the value of Scripture over experience when he said, “We also have a more sure Word of prophecy, to which you do well to take heed, as to a light that shines in a dark place” (2 Peter 1:19).

Another extract found and I have read Pentecostals statements in relation to salvation and their differing beliefs as yes Tall Guy one would differ in each religion regardless of denomination however the majority of Catholics do know and acknowledge from Holy Catechism of our Lord Jesus Christ Holy Spirit God The Most High and through our Most Holy Blessed Virgin Mother Mary in Gods Holy Word from Rome itself through Holy Saint Peter, Holy Saint John and our Lords other Holy Disciples that one must repent to our Lord Jesus Christ "Through His Priests" - not to God The Most High directly - and I read quite a few accounts of Christians including Pentecostals that either faith alone in our Lord Jesus Christ is sufficient for salvation and or repenting to God The Most High directly not addressing our Lord Jesus Christ and or repentance not necessary at all to our Lord Jesus Christ that they are saved through Jesus dying on the Cross for us/mankind.

Also I have read in many places years gone by that many Pentecostals believe wrongly that "Faith in our Lord Jesus Christ while living in Holy Spirit without repentance to our Lord Jesus Christ" Faith or through receiving The Holy Spirit alone will enable them to be saved.

Pentecostals are made up of differing views and interpretations according to their Pastors around the world and emphasis on The Holy Trinity and their own individual beliefs of which is very dangerous for souls and their salvation and herein is the problem given that with our Lord Jesus Christs Catholic Faith and History of The Church through Saint Peter and our Lords Holy Disciples, Holy Saint Dominic and the Church Fathers dating back to 1214 and previously, with documents held in the Vatican, Gods Holy Word, original Holy Word, prior to Lutheranism and other denominations, the Catholic Religion is the Holy Lineage of the Hebrews by the way, with many of Gods Holy Catholic Saints within the Hebrew/Catholic Lineage, many of Gods Holy Catholic Saints attest to this Holy Fact received from our Lord Jesus Christ and Most Holy Mother Mary - that God had chosen His Catholic Faith through the Hebrews through Jesus to Holy Saint Peter and the Catholic Religion is The Church of our Lord Jesus Christ and our Most Holy Blessed Virgin Mother Mary with all of the Catholic Doctrines to be adhered for Salvation.

Holy Saints/Nuns, with His Holy Divine Heavenly Prayers and Holy directives all directly reflecting Gods Holy Word - one cannot go wrong through our Lord Jesus

Another extract of Pentecostals - my comments in bold to differentiate.

1. The Salvation of Man

Man’s only hope of redemption is through the shed blood of Jesus Christ the Son of God.

a. Conditions to Salvation

Salvation is received through repentance toward God and faith toward the Lord Jesus Christ. By the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, being justified by grace through faith, man becomes an heir of God according to the hope of eternal life (Luke 24:47; John 3:3; Romans 10:13-15; Ephesians 2:8; Titus 2:11; 3:5-7).

See here how they state as Pentecostals - repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ - this is incorrect in Holiness and in Gods Holy Word. It is repentance to our Lord Jesus Christ and many Pentecostals rarely mention our Lord Jesus Christ in relation to repentance of sins to be made to Him.

b. The Evidences of Salvation

The inward evidence of salvation is the direct witness of the Spirit (Romans 8:16). The outward evidence to all men is a life of righteousness and true holiness (Ephesians 4:24; Titus 2:12).

Inward evidence. Whose evidence? That is taking for granted salvation and taking the Right of our Lord Jesus Christ forgiving us in His Holy Absolution through Holy Confession for salvation - ie Holy Confession and Holy Reconciliation with our Lord Jesus Present at Holy Confession. Holy Saint Padre Pio did not waste his time spending thousands of hours hearing Holy Confessions through our Lord Jesus Christ during His Stigmatism of our Lord Jesus Christ in Holy Confessionals for years only to see from Holy Heaven this earth and Christians believing the wrong things led by evil to avoid Holy Confession through our Lord Jesus Christs Priests.

1. The Ordinances of the Church

a. Baptism in Water

The ordinance of baptism by immersion is commanded in the Scriptures. All who repent and believe on Christ as Savior and Lord are to be baptized. Thus they declare to the world that they have died with Christ and that they also have been raised with Him to walk in newness of life (Matthew 28:19; Mark 16:16; Acts 10:47,48; Romans 6:4).

This should read "Repent to our Lord Jesus Christ"

b. Holy Communion

The Lord’s Supper, consisting of the elements—bread and the fruit of the vine—is the symbol expressing our sharing the divine nature of our Lord Jesus Christ (2 Peter 1:4); a memorial of His suffering and death (1 Corinthians 11:26); and a prophecy of His second coming (1 Corinthians 11:26); and is enjoined on all believers “till He come!”

Not only a Symbol - it is the True Real Presence of our Lord Jesus Christ in His Holy Eucharist, His Blessed Holy Divine Eucharist and His Precious Holy Blood Himself of which Jesus showed us at the Marriage at Cana with the changing of Water into Wine. Not merely a Memorial of our Lord Jesus Christs suffering and death. Jesus is Physically and Spiritually Present in His Holy Divine Catholic Church Literally changing the bread and wine into Him His Holy Flesh and Blood of which contain His Holy Divine Blessings Gifts and Graces.

1. The Baptism in the Holy Spirit

All believers are entitled to and should ardently expect and earnestly seek the promise of the Father, the baptism in the Holy Spirit and fire, according to the command of our Lord Jesus Christ. This was the normal experience of all in the early Christian church. With it comes the enduement of power for life and service, the bestowment of the gifts and their uses in the work of the ministry (Luke 24:49; Acts 1:4,8; 1 Corinthians 12:1-31). This experience is distinct from and subsequent to the experience of the new birth (Acts 8:12-17; 10:44-46; 11:14-16; 15:7-9).

With the baptism in the Holy Spirit come such experiences as an overflowing fullness of the Spirit (John 7:37-39; Acts 4:8), a deepened reverence for God (Acts 2:43; Hebrews 12:28), an intensified consecration to God and dedication to His work (Acts 2:42), and a more active love for Christ, for His Word, and for the lost (Mark 16:20).

1. The Initial Physical Evidence of the Baptism in the Holy Spirit

The baptism of believers in the Holy Spirit is witnessed by the initial physical sign of speaking with other tongues as the Spirit of God gives them utterance (Acts 2:4). The speaking in tongues in this instance is the same in essence as the gift of tongues (1 Corinthians 12:4-10,28), but different in purpose and use.

1. Sanctification

Sanctification is an act of separation from that which is evil, and of dedication unto God (Romans 12:1,2; 1Thessalonians 5:23; Hebrews 13:12). Scriptures teach a life of “holiness without which no man shall see the Lord” (Hebrews 12:14). By the power of the Holy Spirit we are able to obey the command: “Be ye holy, for I am holy” (1 Peter 1:15,16). Sanctification is realized in the believer by recognizing his identification with Christ in His death and resurrection, and by faith reckoning daily upon the fact of that union, and by offering every faculty continually to the dominion of the Holy Spirit (Romans 6:1-11,13; 8:1,2,13; Galatians 2:20; Philippians 2:12,13; 1 Peter 1:5).

1. The Church and Its Mission

The Church is the body of Christ, the habitation of God through the Spirit, with divine appointments for the fulfillment of her Great Commission. Each believer, born of the Spirit, is an integral part of the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven (Ephesians 1:22,23; 2:22; Hebrews 12:23).

Since God’s purpose concerning man is to seek and to save that which is lost, to be worshiped by man, and to build a body of believers in the image of His Son, the priority reason-for-being of the Assemblies of God as part of the Church is:

a. To be an agency of God for evangelizing the world (Acts 1:8; Matthew28:19,20; Mark 16:15,16). b. To be a corporate body in which man may worship God (1 Corinthians 12:13). c. To be a channel of God’s purpose to build a body of saints being perfected in the image of His Son (Ephesians 4:11-16; 1 Corinthians 12:28; 14:12). The Assemblies of God exists expressly to give continuing emphasis to this reason-for-being in the New Testament apostolic pattern by teaching and encouraging believers to be baptized in the Holy Spirit. This experience: a. Enables them to evangelize in the power of the Spirit with accompanying supernatural signs (Mark 16:15-20; Acts 4:29-31; Hebrews 2:3,4). b. Adds a necessary dimension to a worshipful relationship with God (1Corinthians 2:10-16; 1 Corinthians 12-14). c. Enables them to respond to the full working of the Holy Spirit in expression of fruit and gifts and ministries as in New Testament times for the edifying of the body of Christ (Galatians 5:22-26; 1 Corinthians 14:12; Ephesians 4:11,12; 1 Corinthians 12:28; Colossians 1:29).

1. The Ministry

A divinely called and scripturally ordained ministry has been provided by our Lord for the threefold purpose of leading the Church in: (1) evangelization of the world (Mark 16:15-20), (2) worship of God (John 4:23,24), and (3) building a Body of saints being perfected in the image of His Son (Ephesians 4:11,16).

1. Divine Healing

Divine healing is an integral part of the gospel. Deliverance from sickness is provided for in the Atonement, and is the privilege of all believers (Isaiah 53:4,5; Matthew 8:16,17; James 5:14-16).

1. The Blessed Hope

The resurrection of those who have fallen asleep in Christ and their translation together with those who are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord is the imminent and blessed hope of the Church (1 Thessalonians 4:16,17; Romans 8:23; Titus 2:13; 1 Corinthians 15:51,52).

1. The Millennial Reign of Christ

The second coming of Christ includes the rapture of the saints, which is our blessed hope, followed by the visible return of Christ with His saints to reign on the earth for one thousand years (Zechariah 14:5; Matthew 24:27,30; Revelation 1:7;19:11-14; 20:1-6). This millennial reign will bring the salvation of national Israel (Ezekiel 37:21,22; Zephaniah 3:19,20; Romans 11:26,27) and the establishment of universal peace (Isaiah 11:6-9; Psalm 72:3-8; Micah 4:3,4).

1. The Final Judgment

There will be a final judgment in which the wicked dead will be raised and judged according to their works. Whosoever is not found written in the Book of Life, together with the devil and his angels, the beast and the false prophet, will be consigned to everlasting punishment in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone, which is the second death (Matthew 25:46; Mark 9:43-48; Revelation 19:20; 20:11-15; 21:8).

Galilee63 said:

A major focus of Pentecostal churches is Holy Spirit baptism as evidenced by speaking in tongues. There are approximately 170 different denominations that identify themselves as Pentecostal.

Another tenet of this group is the necessity of speaking in tongues as evidence of salvation. This group was to form the United Pentecostal Church and the Apostolic Pentecostal Church, among others.

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Hi Galilee! Great to see you!

Hello Tallguy.
This is interesting. So how do Pentecostal Churches handle separating out the members of their congregation who are 'saved', because they can speak in tongues, and the members of the congregation who are 'unsaved' because they cannot speak in tongues?

I know that the Pentecostals really, really, really, do not see Catholics as 'saved'. I did not know they had a test for it.

StevenMerten said:

Hi Galilee! Great to see you!

Hello Tallguy. This is interesting. So how do Pentecostal Churches handle separating out the members of their congregation who are 'saved', because they can speak in tongues, and the members of the congregation who are 'unsaved' because they cannot speak in tongues?

I know that the Pentecostals really, really, really, do not see Catholics as 'saved'. I did not know they had a test for it.

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Oneness Pentecostals are very much a minority of Pentecostals. They are the only ones who believe that you have to speak in tongues to be saved.

Tallguy88 said:

Oneness Pentecostals are very much a minority of Pentecostals. They are the only ones who believe that you have to speak in tongues to be saved.

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Hello Tallguy,
Please clarify, they are the only ones who judge who is going to heaven and who is going to hell, or they are the only ones who use speaking in tongues as a way to judge who the hell goers are.

Hi Steven,

I hope you and Family are well!

God our Heavenly Father's Holy Saints in Heaven - indescribable numbers of them all have attested that it is through repentance of sins made to our Lord Jesus Christ through our Lord Jesus and His Priests (previously Disciples) that is to be done in Holy Confession within our Lords Holy Spirits Gods and Holy Mother Marys Holy Divine Heavenly Catholic Church in Gods Holy Divine Will and Holy Divine Ways (hence God The Most High with our Lord Jesus Christ and Holy Spirit in His Old Testament) showed/commanded Moses and Aaron to build His Church with Holy Tabernacles, the Holie of Holies with our Lord Physically and Spiritually Present in His Tabernacle and Blessed Holy Sacrament at the Altars with said Holy Vestments and Dimensions built to the specifications in His Holy Divine Will of which are "Catholic" Traditions - Hebrew.

I could go on and on with God The Most Highs Old Testament in which God our Heavenly Divine Majesty has directed His Priests to fulfil His Holy Word through and with our Lord Jesus Christ and in Holy Spirit back then prior to our Lord Jesus descending from Heaven to Earth in relation to His Catholic Church extended through Holy Saint Peter and Holy Saint John with God The Most High Holy Heavenly Divine Specifications to be adhered to through His Holy Catholic Church.

Hence, Priests were Gifted by God within His Catholic Church studying all of in essence Holy Saint Peters and The Church Fathers in Rome through the Vatican Blessed by Popes appointed by our Blessed Holy Trinity every one of them - and through all of the documents of old - held in the Vatican - to adhere and follow Gods Holy Divine Teachings through our Lord Jesus Christ and Holy Spirit and through our Most Holy Blessed Virgin Mother Mary Whom is Holy Divine Queen of Heaven attested by all of those Nuns and Priests whom had Jesus appearing to them each Century stating that one must receive our Lords Blessed Holy Divine Sacraments through His CAtholic Church to be forgiven before passing over.

Galilee63 said:

Hi Steven,

I hope you and Family are well!

God our Heavenly Father's Holy Saints in Heaven - indescribable numbers of them all have attested that it is through repentance of sins made to our Lord Jesus Christ through our Lord Jesus and His Priests (previously Disciples) that is to be done in Holy Confession within our Lords Holy Spirits Gods and Holy Mother Marys Holy Divine Heavenly Catholic Church in Gods Holy Divine Will and Holy Divine Ways (hence God The Most High with our Lord Jesus Christ and Holy Spirit in His Old Testament) showed/commanded Moses and Aaron to build His Church with Holy Tabernacles, the Holie of Holies with our Lord Physically and Spiritually Present in His Tabernacle and Blessed Holy Sacrament at the Altars with said Holy Vestments and Dimensions built to the specifications in His Holy Divine Will of which are "Catholic" Traditions - Hebrew.

I could go on and on with God The Most Highs Old Testament in which God our Heavenly Divine Majesty has directed His Priests to fulfil His Holy Word through and with our Lord Jesus Christ and in Holy Spirit back then prior to our Lord Jesus descending from Heaven to Earth in relation to His Catholic Church extended through Holy Saint Peter and Holy Saint John with God The Most High Holy Heavenly Divine Specifications to be adhered to through His Holy Catholic Church.

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Hi Galilee, We are well!
I am right there with you. Jesus did not will that there be tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of Christian churches. Jesus will is for one and only one Church bearing His Power and Authority on earth. We are already there.

Yes, Christ's Church has fallen prey to all of Satan's marauders on earth, even to our highest levels, but God promises to breath life back into His Church before the epic Battle of Armageddon. I know you will remain faithful to Jesus' Will of having but one Church, as will I, until Christ's Victory is attained.

Christian love, Steven

Look, The Holy Spirit is within us now and eternally for "Conscience" among many other Holy Heavenly Divine Mysteries and things. "The Holy Heavenly Mysteries of God The Most Highs" not visible or known to us at this time.

We were taught to always, always pray to our Lord Jesus Christ, to God and Holy Spirit, through our Lord Jesus Christ and to call upon our Most Holy Blessed Virgin Mother Mary in our Lord Jesus Christ for Holy Mother Mary's Loving Holy Intercession. Jesus delivered The Most Holy Rosary to Holy Saint Dominic and Blessed De La Roche from God The Most High as one of God our Heavenly Fathers Holy Divine Gifts and Blessings through Jesus and Most Holy Mother Mary in Holy Spirit, God.

Now, when Pentecostals or Christians call upon The Holy Spirit without praying to our Lord Jesus Christ directly first - and without making The Sign of The Cross to enter into Holy Divine Heavenly Realm what happens or may well occur, is that without being in Prayer in our Lord Jesus Christ and not through Most Holy Mother Mary with God Himself, all manner of evil can intercede into that persons life as a result of not having prayed nor addressed our Lord Jesus Christ first. I have seen Christians open up calling upon The Holy Spirit without first making The Sign of The Cross, without praying and addressing our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and it is through our Lord Jesus Christ of Whom we can be saved, through His Mercy, through repentance of sins made to Jesus in remorse and humility and quietness. Meek and humble souls Jesus favours the most - Gods Holy Word and by Jesus Himself stating to His Holy Saints now in Heaven.

Yelling out, crying out loudly, is not being humble nor meek or mild.

Charismatic crying out loudly and in an agitated and pushy manner and behaviour is not being humble, quiet, meek and mild as Jesus is today in the past now and forever ONE in God and Holy Spirit. That part of the calling upon Holy Spirit Whom is within us anyway at Holy Baptism is not right. Our Lord does not like to be yelled at nor ignored.

Only mainly addressing Holy Spirit is addressing God The Most High without addressing our Lord Jesus Christ. Saying in Jesus Name is not the same. A deep and meaningful relationship with our Lord Jesus Christ calling upon Jesus is the Holy Divine Way we have been taught in Gods Holy Word - not calling out to Holy Spirit only without addressing our Lord Jesus Christ on each of those occasions.

We as Catholics have been taught to address our Lord Jesus Christ and Most Holy Mother Mary - our Blessed Holy Trinity - not just calling upon Holy Spirit.

With prayers prayed to our Lord Jesus Christ Holy Spirit and Most Holy Mother Mary prior to everything daily.

I have heard people during Charismatic Services screaming and yelling Holy Spirit Come fill us with You. Holy Spirit is in each one of us. Then I hear them addressing God and not our Lord Jesus Christ leaving Jesus Holy Name Himself out for the most part at times addressing only Holy Spirit. Wrong. wrong. wrong. They speak Gods Holy Name at times and not Jesus Holy Name. It is through our Lord Jesus Christ we can be given the opportunity of receiving His Mercy through Jesus. A deep relationship from hearts in our Lord Jesus Christ firstly now and forever focussing on Jesus Himself, His Bitter Passion, His Sorrowful Mysteries, His Life and trusting completely in Him - one cannot go wrong. Because by focussing on Jesus His Bitter passion His Sorrows, we enter more deeply into our relationships in hearts opening to receive Jesus into hearts - and few could not be bothered doing this. If everyone did this, then they would be talking about their relationships with our Lord Jesus Christ and not focussing on speaking tongues and calling out to Holy Spirit primarily.

Having received our Lord Jesus Christ into hearts in Love, Trust, Humility and Reverance, in God The Most Highs "Obedience" God taught in His Holy Word.

Calling out and yelling is not God our Heavenly Fathers Holy Divine Will and Holy Divine Teachings. Being quiet, humble, reverant, trusting, is Gods Holy Divine Will in His Teachings. Our Lord Jesus Christs Holy Divine Teachings. Never calling out to Holy Spirit in groups loudly. Why only call out to Holy Spirit and not praying and talking to our Lord Jesus Christ?

The focus of Pentecostals is The Holy Spirit when it should be our Lord Jesus Christ of Whom is ignored when Pentecostals address Holy Spirit - whether in Jesus Holy Name or not. It is our relationships with our Lord Jesus Christ that is focal point. The Holy Divine Lamb of God is Whom we should all be addressing and not only Holy Spirit. It is our Lord Jesus Christ on The Cross of Whom should be looked at, prayed to, worshipped loved and adored and Honoured. It is our Lord Jesus Christ of Whom should be visited in His Blessed Holy Divine Sacrament Present Himself in quietness, humble hearts open to Him in Love, Peace, Quietness, Gentleness, Humility, Reverance, not loud noise yelled through Christian Services and or Charismatic services.

How would people like this if they were our Lord Jesus Christ after not only having suffered and died for us and gave up His Life in many other ways doing without living in poverty, then Ascended into Heaven and Blessed Gifted us during most of our lives here particularly to those whom love and trust in Him and have turned to our Lord Jesus. Jesus when appearing to His Holy Saints strongly urges and encourages us to turn to Him always daily and to focus on His Bitter Passion, His Life and Sorrows and Sufferings to enter into Him more deeply in Unity with Him. Most Holy Mother Mary says the same/id

Jesus said that if He is ignored here on earth then He too will ignore us at the hour of death.

Extract of Pentecostals
“This happens when people are praying and they may not know what to pray or there may be a gap of silence and they'll begin speaking in tongues. ... “Those actions are distinctive to Pentecostal prayers. We're laying hands on a person and believing God, by his spirit, will meet them and heal them,” Costa said.

Pentecostals prayers are addressing The Holy Spirit in tongues or to receive speaking in tongues. What happened to praying "The Our Father" and making The Sign of The Cross first for protection against satan and evil - this is dangerous without first making The Sign of The Cross in front of Jesus Cross and praying The Our Fathers' firstly for our Lord Jesus Holy Spirit, God The Most High and Most Holy Mother Mary to intercede against evil.

Power of Prayer: Pentecostals experience prayer through speaking in tongues, divine healing also without praying firstly. Some pray first some

Jesus told His Holy Saints now in Heaven the following:

"Few do this"

Jesus said that "Few" visit Him in His Blessed Holy Divine Sacrament, where Jesus is Physically and Spiritually Present in silent, quiet humble contemplation of our Lord Jesus Christ, His Bitter Passion His Sorrows His Sufferings, loving adoring trusting and be grateful to Him on their own and of their own volition free will.

Those hearts souls are the people whom approach Jesus and His Fount of Mercy and pray for others quietly humbly and obediently to our Lord Jesus Christ store up some treasures for Heaven in God our Heavenly Holy Divine Will in His Teachings to us.

Worshipping and Praise done quietly and reverently is our Lords Holy Preference in His Holy Word and in His Holy Words to all of His Holy Saints/Nuns now in Heaven with Him.

Always making The Sign of The Cross first prior to each Holy Mass and or Christian Service.

All the best in our Lord Jesus Christ Holy Spirit God our Heavenly Father and Most Holy Mother Mary to all

A little off topic possibly, but may fit well, so I'll ask. I am newer to the Catholic Church. After coming in, I have been turned off by the Charismatic group some. Nice folks, but they pretty much seem a little like Pentecostals attending Mass sometimes. They have separate prayer meetings with a Charismatic priest - where they may speak in tongues and are commonly "slain" or "rest" in the Spirit. Some of them many times.

I studied the roots of the Catholic Charismatic movement, and it seems to have come from protestant inter-faith laying on of hands. Something Catholics in the US sought out as they felt their faith life was flat, so they sought the Spirit in Pentecostal groups.

The fact that the bishop has endorsed this movement has me now considering leaving Catholicism, as my trust of their judgement is just not very high.

If the Charismatic Catholic movement is true, the Spirit was alive and at work in protestant churches in a way it was not in Catholic. It just seems the Catholic Church can not both claim to be the one true Church - and endorse the Charismatic movement that had to go out side the Church to find the Spirit.

Markie then you need to attend one of the more Conservative Holy Masses (traditional Catholic Holy Masses) at another parish even if you need to travel a little further as I do to attend.

There are some Priests as you have said Markie whereby a Priest in a Parish or a small group of Priests whom have become Charismatic with their Callings hold a Holy Charismatic Mass - there is only one in our City of whom do this - the remainder of the Parishes and Parish Priests do not hold Charismatic Masses at all. It is the same as Melkite or Latin Holy Masses for those Parishioners of whom wish to choose between traditional conservative Holy Masses and or the Charismatic or Latin or Melkite or Polish Holy Masses; they are free to do so. And that is wonderful for everyone! To suit their own languages and needs! How wonderful God our Heavenly Father is to have built so many of His Catholic Holy Churches to cater for each one of us around the world! Glory be to Thee our Blessed Holy Trinity and we love Thee and Glorify Thee and we love Thee our Most Holy Blessed Virgin Mother Mary for Gifting and Blessing us all.

For instance I don't attend the Parishes where Melkite or Croatian Holy Masses are held given that I don't speak Croatian and cannot comprehend as well. There was a Holy Mass held in a Parish whereby the Priest is from Vietnam. I had no idea until the Holy Mass commenced that it would be said in the Vietnamese language. I was grateful afterwards that our Lord Jesus had led me to attend because our Blessed Holy Trinity was teaching me what it was like to be a foreigner to this Nation, isolated, feeling left out of sorts, not abandoned yet not fitting in completely. Similarly when I attended the Holy Charismatic Masses, I do not speak in Holy Tongues, I speak directly to our Lord Jesus Christ and apart from asking Holy Spirit through Jesus and Most Holy Mother Mary to illuminate in Holy Discernment all of my sins prior to Holy Confession I had not been including Holy Spirit, God The Most High at one stage in all of my prayers to our Lord Jesus Christ and Most Holy Mother Mary quite a while back. Now I include our Blessed Holy Trinity and talk with God The Most High in our Lord Jesus Christ Holy Spirit and Most Holy Mother Mary in complete Love and Honour and Respect and Trust in Jesus Christ.

We all receive our Blessed Holy Trinity in different ways and I am genuinely respectful of this in our Lord Jesus Christ Holy Spirit and Most Holy Mother Mary God our Heavenly Father however something does not sit right in my heart in relation to respect and reverence and obedience to God when people are shouting and yelling and cooeeing in Holy Mass.

I cannot comprehend how that would have been done in our Lords Holy Hebrew days. It was our Lord Jesus Christ Whom turned over tables when noise and marketing and disarray was discovered in God our Heavenly Fathers Holy Temple/Church.

To focus on our Lord Jesus Christ one really needs to be still, quiet, in a quiet environment without chatter around, to open ones own heart up to receive our Lord Jesus Christ and to be in Holy Union with Him whether at home, at work, in Holy Mass, or before Holy Mass, or on a plane or in a vehicle or walking. Jesus speaks lightly when not upset, peacefully, tranquilly and of course Holy Divine Heaven in God our Heavenly Father is Peaceful not shouting loudly in worship Glorifying God The Most High. Like a light Symphony Orchestra when playing soft light notes not heavy notes. Sweet Cascadent sounds! Holy Psalms played should not be loud and bellowing in Holy Mass nor worshiping in loud forceful and bellowing tones.

Another thing in some Holy Masses I have discovered recently is that many of the Old Psalms/original Catholic Hymns are not played or rarely played at all with new songs not Psalms/Hymns played at all despite different bands and groups and choirs playing at each Holy Mass in the several parishes I attend. As Catholics we are supposed to be singing Holy Psalms from Gods Holy Word and not "songs" made up by people of which I have now discovered in another couple of parishes I attended recently.

Something will need to be said about this given that our Lord has shown us how His Holy Masses are supposed to be "said", "conducted" and "felt in hearts". Most parishes talking within our Lords Holy Church prior to Holy Mass is not tolerated, with talking usually done in the foyers prior to Holy Mass and afterwards. Some Priests are good and strict about this without having to say a word about it. One Parish in particular is loud and noisy without people even bothering to kneel and pray and communicate with our Lord Jesus Christ prior to Holy Mass and the same people appear to leave straight after receiving Holy Communion without kneeling to thank our Lord Jesus Christ afterwards for having received Him in His Holy Blessings Gifts and Graces (not knowing at all in all probability like me when younger) and not waiting to receive our Lords Holy Blessing at end of Holy Mass after Holy Communion through His Priests. Of which when we pass over suddenly some of us, we then have not received our Lords last Holy Divine Blessing while dying of which is very important for our souls.

These things should be explained on notices on parish Bulletins or Sheets for Catholics not in the know or the young whom would have no idea naturally about these things.

Then there are many traditional or cradle Catholics whom have no idea about Gods Holy Saints whom have received our Lord Jesus Christ appearing to them and educating them on Holy Protocols in relation to Holy Adoration of our Lord Jesus Christ, what our Lord Jesus Christ prefers prior to Holy Mass to be done, for instance, women should not be serving our Lord on His Holy Altars at all! I used to read in Holy Mass as a young girl regularly in a couple of Parishes and I only discovered this as an Adult from our Lord Jesus Christ God our Heavenly Father and Holy Spirit and Most Holy Mother Mary. God cannot abide "women" serving Him at His Holy Altars in any way. Women are supposed to be seen and not heard in Holy Mass. In Holy mirroring for lack of a better term immitating our Most Holy Blessed Virgin Mother Mary in Her Holy Humility as a Loving quiet humble Woman, imitating in our hearts and actions our Lord Jesus Christ in His Love and Humility. We are to take a back seat with Priests conducting all Holy Masses and Holy Masses not held by Deacons nor pastors/Ministers nor women. God The Most Highs Holy Word in which God has laid down His Holy Directives to His Priests Abraham Moses Aaron and others with Jesus and His Disciples each Century to date and eternally. Holy Divine Heavenly Masses are celebrated through our Holy Divine Masses more Precious and Holy Sacred than us mere mortals can ever imagine with our Lord Jesus Christ physically and Holy Divinely and Spiritually Present in each of His Holy Heavenly Masses with Holy Heavens Holy Angels, Holy Saints and Holy Souls in Heaven with Most Holy Mother Mary attending! Invisible to us; nevertheless Holy Divine Present in all Holy Masses. Feel in hearts, look at Jesus on The Cross during Holy Mass going deeper into our Lord Jesus Sacred Heart, His Sorrows and Bitter Passion prior to Holy Mass to receive our Lord Jesus into hearts in complete trust and people will see some incredible Holy Divine things particularly if prayers to our Lord Jesus Christ and to Most Holy Mother Mary.